Whatever happened to sticking with Bennett Ball?

[ttowncoug]

I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

 

[britton ransford]

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

Ken Bone came to Washington State wanting to "run and gun" and ended up with one of the slowest tempos in the country.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by Britton Ransford:

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

Ken Bone came to Washington State wanting to "run and gun" and ended up with one of the slowest tempos in the country.

He didn't think that defense was that important. Bone thought with his offense, he could play fast and outscore other teams by being very efficient offensively. The one thing that went according to his plan was the defense was not good. Unfortunately, his teams were neither efficient, nor fast.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

One of the inescapable facts about basketball is that you can never be sure if the ball will go in. There are times when it doesn't, despite the team's best efforts. Free throw shooting is one aspect of this. 3 point shots are another. And sometimes you can get 4 consecutive offensive boards and never end up with a basket.

On the other hand, your defense is in your own hands. The only way it doesn't happen is if you blow it off yourself.

For this reason, good teams always include defense in what they do. It may not be their primary focus. But it is never absent, and the primary reason is because it is one aspect of the game that you can control.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by Britton Ransford:

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

Ken Bone came to Washington State wanting to "run and gun" and ended up with one of the slowest tempos in the country.

He didn't think that defense was that important. Bone thought with his offense, he could play fast and outscore other teams by being very efficient offensively. The one thing that went according to his plan was the defense was not good. Unfortunately, his teams were neither efficient, nor fast.

Crap happens when you don't recruit point guards. Kent will have to suffer through the slow and unathletic players he inherited in much the way Leach has had to endure the Wulff leftovers.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

It's just so boring winning and playing "slow". I could hardly stand watching us win. Zzzzzzzzzz. ,

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by Britton Ransford:

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

Ken Bone came to Washington State wanting to "run and gun" and ended up with one of the slowest tempos in the country.

He didn't think that defense was that important. Bone thought with his offense, he could play fast and outscore other teams by being very efficient offensively. The one thing that went according to his plan was the defense was not good. Unfortunately, his teams were neither efficient, nor fast.

Crap happens when you don't recruit point guards. Kent will have to suffer through the slow and unathletic players he inherited in much the way Leach has had to endure the Wulff leftovers.

Unfortunately, this is true. Yet, Kent does not win this season, there will be people complaining that Kent has lost it.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Can't disagree that Bone left the program in bad shape for Ernie. But, at the very least, if Kent struggles a lot this season, people won't be able to rule out the possibility that he has lost it. After a four year hiatus and a non-competitive Duck program his last two years, I can understand why people may be skeptical whether he's the answer or not.

Glad Cougar

 

[bogusto]

I hope to hell Kent is the answer but, other than results, one way I judge my coaches is by what comes out of their mouth on a daily basis. I liked the Bennetts because when they talked basketball you sensed there was a well-thought out plan which was time-worn and they exuded the fortitude and aptitude to enforce it. The things they said were consistent and logical and through time played itself out on the court. When Kent talks basketball, to my ear, it sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo coming from a used car salesman. Like I said, I hope to hell I'm wrong and his results will trump my ear.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by bogusto:
I hope to hell Kent is the answer but, other than results, one way I judge my coaches is by what comes out of their mouth on a daily basis. I liked the Bennetts because when they talked basketball you sensed there was a well-thought out plan which was time-worn and they exuded the fortitude and aptitude to enforce it. The things they said were consistent and logical and through time played itself out on the court. When Kent talks basketball, to my ear, it sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo coming from a used car salesman. Like I said, I hope to hell I'm wrong and his results will trump my ear.

Funny, I get the opposite from listening to Kent. He is the farthest thing from a used car salesman that you can get. He talks about education and building a foundation for the individual first. He graduated almost all of his players at Oregon and says he will do the same thing in Pullman. That is not used car salesman.

Then, when he shifts to basketball, he talks about the process. He talks about defense. He talks about offense.

Yeah, you and I could not be farther apart on this one.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by Britton Ransford:

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
I know Bone went off course a bit -- a little bit more "run and gun" -- but I have always been puzzled why we just didn't stick with a system that kind of worked.

Play tight defense (full court press).
Milk the clock on offense.
Take high % offensive shots with about 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

It just always seemed to me you could recruit and find kids to fit in that system. Largely because not a lot of D1 teams play with that scheme.

Ken Bone came to Washington State wanting to "run and gun" and ended up with one of the slowest tempos in the country.

He didn't think that defense was that important. Bone thought with his offense, he could play fast and outscore other teams by being very efficient offensively. The one thing that went according to his plan was the defense was not good. Unfortunately, his teams were neither efficient, nor fast.

Crap happens when you don't recruit point guards. Kent will have to suffer through the slow and unathletic players he inherited in much the way Leach has had to endure the Wulff leftovers.

Unfortunately, this is true. Yet, Kent does not win this season, there will be people complaining that Kent has lost it.

Wow, was I off. I thought people would wait a little longer before they said Kent has lost it. Two games and it starts.

 

[CougEd]

The question becomes how long is the "process"

and how patient people will be.

 

[Coug1990]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

Originally posted by CougEd:
and how patient people will be.

True. People are not patient. Now, there are times not to be patient when someone is clearly in over his head. But, Kent does have a good track record. The one thing he has in his favor is that he is Moos' guy. Moos will be patient.

 

[7ICoug]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

People aren't at all patient.

 

[7ICoug]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

Heck he has a Moos contract and while we are still paying off the other guy as well. He is the man that has the job.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

I think fans are generally patient when 1) they have confidence that a coach has a plan or vision that he articulates well that he will implement, 2) that the plan makes sense given the type of players he can and likely will draw to WSU, and 3) that the team is showing tangible improvement over the course of time in terms of the fundamentals.
Most fans should understand that the improvement in results are not linear, and that there will be big setbacks along the way to becoming competitive. Sometimes, a coach has to effectively tear down the team before they are built up into a team that represents his system. I mention these last two points because that is what we saw with Dick Bennett. Recall the brutal loss to Oklahoma State (81-29, I believe) his first season, and then just weeks later seeing that same team beat a top 20 Arizona team on the road, no less! I think that broke our losing streak to them that covered over 20 years. This brings me to my last point, which is, that my impression is that very good coaches will surprise fans early on in their tenure with a big upset win. If Kent still "has it" as a coach, I would expect his team to have one of these big upsets this season, even given the dearth of talent. We'll see.

 

[jourdand]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

I know I'm in the minority on this subject but I didn't like what I saw in WSU basketball during the Dick Bennett era. We suffered some of the worst losses in history and finished with a worse record every year he was here, also finished lower in the conference every year he was at WSU. If Dick Bennett would have gotten fired after his third year, which based on his record was very possible and another coach with no connection would have been hired, I doubt WSU fans would have such a love affair with "Bennett Ball". Tony Bennett came in opened up the offense kept the defense and allowed the players to play basketball. IMO Tony deserves way more of the credit than Dick and was rewarded accordingly.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Re: The question becomes how long is the "process"

Under DB, we finished tied for 7th, tied for 6th, and then last place. Not true we got worse every year. Do you realize how many bad streaks that Dick ended in his short tine at WSU? Amazing how people don't understand what he walked into and how he set up Tony to succeed.

 

[jourdand]

Your right! I had the 6th and 7th place finishes mixed up. I know he walked into a complete mess left by Graham. I think most fans are under the same opinion you are, thats why I said I was in the minority. There is no doubt a very compelling argument for Dick Bennett being the primary architect of Tony's teams and I think that was largely true. I am just of the opinion it wouldn't have happened without Tony taking over

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by jourdand:
Your right! I had the 6th and 7th place finishes mixed up. I know he walked into a complete mess left by Graham. I think most fans are under the same opinion you are, thats why I said I was in the minority. There is no doubt a very compelling argument for Dick Bennett being the primary architect of Tony's teams and I think that was largely true. I am just of the opinion it wouldn't have happened without Tony taking over

Tony won because he had talent, much more talent on his teams than Dick. Period. Tony had a healthy Derrick Low who had missed time both in his freshman year and sophomore year with a broken foot. Plus, he had Taylor Rochestie. Those are two huge pieces that Dick either didn't have or had little of. Then, you have the rest of the team learning under Dick and now being mature upperclassmen, the team was going to take off under Dick or Tony.

Don't forget that this team wasn't able to replace Thomas Kelati. They had a JC guard Rodney Edgerson that was supposed to come in, but he was injured and transferred out a bust.