Word on the street is that WSU got really lucky last year

[Coug95man2]

I believe the staff likes it for the team bonding aspect with the idea that a closer team trusts each other and finishes together.

I have read in the past, as I recall, that he likes it being a "humble" place, as well. Makes the players realize where they came from, kind of thing. And if it is maybe a little less than what they are accustomed to, it makes them realize where many others have come from. A form of realizing how lucky they are and they have ZERO reason to let up, to slow down. They've been given the opportunity so many haven't… that kinda thing.

I really don't care where they have these practices. If it helps them in some form, I'm game. Toughen those boys up, a bit. Mentally and Physically. Also... don't think that CML's following of Bear Bryant and the Junction Boys story hasn't influenced this specific situation. Lewiston is CML's little foray into the wilds to grow men from boys. Lewiston WA= Junction TX.

Fun fact that ties CML to that summer practice. The location of the Practice in Junction Texas is NOW the current location for Texas Tech University Center at Junction… The ground where Bear Bryant made men out of boys, is now a part of Texas Tech… Hmmmm. You think CML might have visited that place, just for fun sake?

 

[CougSinceBirth]

But what in the world is so "bonding" about Lewiston??

They're away from all the "noise." It's about the team and football 100%. They can eat, play games, room and practice together. Like the locker room, I believe they assign rooms with guys that are not from the same walks of life. SR and FR, Compton and Florida, etc. That's my .2 on why they go there.

I understand your POV on the thought - like the AD just loaded a bunch of money into facilities, why not use them? Makes total sense. However, I believe Coug95man2 makes a valid point on not forgetting where you came from.

 

[YakiCoug]

"If only," huh? Maybe.
BTW, what is real reason camp is in Lewiston? Lewiston is a hole (literally) in all seasons, but in August? Was Leach looking for a climate to approximate the north Texas Plains?

Well, the team was down following Price's defection to 'bama, so there is that. Yes, the Lewiston camp is a head scratcher. Where do they lift weights down there? Guess the nearby school has some universals? Judging how they start seasons (slowly), I'm not sure Lewiston is making the grade...

 

[CougPatrol]

Where do they lift weights down there? Guess the nearby school has some universals?

Good question. It wouldn't have been an issue under Wulff. We were a Nautilus team back then.

 

[SCglory]

They're away from all the "noise." It's about the team and football 100%. They can eat, play games, room and practice together. Like the locker room, I believe they assign rooms with guys that are not from the same walks of life. SR and FR, Compton and Florida, etc. That's my .2 on why they go there.

I understand your POV on the thought - like the AD just loaded a bunch of money into facilities, why not use them? Makes total sense. However, I believe Coug95man2 makes a valid point on not forgetting where you came from.

I dunno about the players "forgetting where they came from." If stats I have read mean anything, most of the players are African Americans who have no problem "remembering" that stuff....and they want the hell out! Besides, does anyone really confuse Pullman with Bel Air, Beverly Hills, or Medina?? I get the team bonding of it and all (I watched Remember the Titans too). Maybe they will go up the Clearwater to Lapwai.....THEN they would get an eyeful.....

 

[MRICoug]

I think the main thing with Lewiston is that it is close, but far enough away. Colfax would not keep the players from distraction. I think Tri-Cities would be better, just to reach out to that fan-base a bit more.

 

[SCglory]

Well, the team was down following Price's defection to 'bama, so there is that. Yes, the Lewiston camp is a head scratcher. Where do they lift weights down there? Guess the nearby school has some universals? Judging how they start seasons (slowly), I'm not sure Lewiston is making the grade...

I get it. There have been a lot of commercials filmed there (the old grade) AND the old Maryhill Grade across from.....................Biggs

 

[SCglory]

I think the main thing with Lewiston is that it is close, but far enough away. Colfax would not keep the players from distraction. I think Tri-Cities would be better, just to reach out to that fan-base a bit more.

Nice. The Tri-Cities MSA is larger than Spokane (unless you fudge it and make Spokane's MSA include the entire counties of Spokane, Stevens, etc. The Tri-Cities has better weather (acc. to most folks) and will--sooner or later--out grow Spokane

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I dunno about the players "forgetting where they came from." If stats I have read mean anything, most of the players are African Americans who have no problem "remembering" that stuff....and they want the hell out! Besides, does anyone really confuse Pullman with Bel Air, Beverly Hills, or Medina?? I get the team bonding of it and all (I watched Remember the Titans too). Maybe they will go up the Clearwater to Lapwai.....THEN they would get an eyeful.....

What's funny is I thought of Remember the Titans when I was typing my response too. Haha. Great minds.

 

[dgibbons]

But what in the world is so "bonding" about Lewiston??

They're off campus, and I believe they have to leave their phones, etc. behind. There's not a lot going on in Lewiston, so they're forced to hang out together.

 

[dgibbons]

Nice. The Tri-Cities MSA is larger than Spokane (unless you fudge it and make Spokane's MSA include the entire counties of Spokane, Stevens, etc. The Tri-Cities has better weather (acc. to most folks) and will--sooner or later--out grow Spokane

The population of the Spokane MSA is about twice that of the Tri-Cities MSA.

 

[YakiCoug]

I dunno about the players "forgetting where they came from." If stats I have read mean anything, most of the players are African Americans who have no problem "remembering" that stuff....and they want the hell out! Besides, does anyone really confuse Pullman with Bel Air, Beverly Hills, or Medina?? I get the team bonding of it and all (I watched Remember the Titans too). Maybe they will go up the Clearwater to Lapwai.....THEN they would get an eyeful.....

The womenfolk swim naked there?

 

[kayak15]

No one has mentioned it yet but to me a minor consideration in continuing the summer camp in Lewiston may have been the "deliverance from temptation" to paraphrase the Lord's prayer. No Friday night frat parties. As the recent turmoil demonstrated, this is a small yet not insignificant consideration.

The practice element of the "bonding" could take place in Lewiston, Uniontown or a fallow wheat field for that matter. Lewiston has the living facilities, a scruffy practice field and is within an easy transit from the home base. Perfect.

They were required to use Lewiston during Martin's upgrade, found it to be beneficial to improving the team culture and decided to continue the practice. Leach's first efforts were directed toward improvement of the team's cultural attitude. The expected single year's experience worked well in this regard. I would file this one in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" column.

 

[kayak15]

The womenfolk swim naked there?

No. I do.

 

[SCglory]

The population of the Spokane MSA is about twice that of the Tri-Cities MSA.

Not really. As I inferred in my post, the true Metropolitan area for the Tri-Cities (the 250K figure) was just lumping the 3 towns together, but Wiki uses the Census newest definition of MSA (totally legit) of bringing in the entire counties! So it is misleading on numerous levels since those Tri-Cities numbers represent people who live CLOSE, the MSA numbers for Spokane do NOT....

EDIT: in the interest of fairness, upon further review, it appears the figures all are a mish-mash of truth. In a very quick addition of the Tri-C (just the cities) I came to only 200K. Still, that is a lot of people real close

 

[SCglory]

The womenfolk swim naked there?

Well, my reference was an oblique one to the poverty that would probably make them think if they saw some of the sights on the Rez there

 

[kayak15]

Well, my reference was an oblique one to the poverty that would probably make them think if they saw some of the sights on the Rez there

Absolutely true. The poverty, alcoholism and despair on Indian reservations make the central area of Seattle look like the "promised land".

 

[CougEd]

"Finishing" is absolutely the most critical thing for any team, particularly the teams that are in WSU's situation. There are a dozen programs that so established, so deep, so talented and so ingrained in the culture of college football that they are almost always going to have the chance to be elite in any given year. Most other teams have the potential to be good, but a mediocre season isn't out of the question. Some teams have almost no chance at being good when they head into the season. We were there five years ago.

A bad team can become "ok" if they had learned to finish. Looking at 2011, WSU had opportunities to beat SDSU, UCLA, and Utah but didn't have a clue on how to finish games. In 2005, WSU lost 5 games by 4 points or less and had many opportunities to beat OSU but couldn't finish. A potential 10-2 season slumped to 4-7. The term "couging it" reflects our historical tendency to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Mike Price had finally started to ingrain a winning attitude in our program and had a QB who knew how to finish when he left us in 2002. That's long gone. I agree that Leach appears to be the guy who will finally instill that expectation of success into our program where losing isn't acceptable and that bad things don't just happen....you have to allow them to happen.

When we learn how to finish games consistently (which we did last year for the most part), we have the potential to become an upper tier program on a regular basis. With the constant turnover of players and talent, it's never guaranteed except for the select few programs that have earned that.

Finishing is as much as being experienced and learning how to make winning plays as it is about anything else. That and lack of injuries. The difference between 96 and 97 was really about two plays. In 97 McWashington got the free safety on his back, and McKenzie learned the fastest way to the goal line is a straight line. The year previous same play he got cute, decided to cut and the USC dback got the angle.

In 2000 they didn't know how to win. The next three years they did.

 

[CougEd]

It could be anywhere. The staff

No one has mentioned it yet but to me a minor consideration in continuing the summer camp in Lewiston may have been the "deliverance from temptation" to paraphrase the Lord's prayer. No Friday night frat parties. As the recent turmoil demonstrated, this is a small yet not insignificant consideration.

The practice element of the "bonding" could take place in Lewiston, Uniontown or a fallow wheat field for that matter. Lewiston has the living facilities, a scruffy practice field and is within an easy transit from the home base. Perfect.

They were required to use Lewiston during Martin's upgrade, found it to be beneficial to improving the team culture and decided to continue the practice. Leach's first efforts were directed toward improvement of the team's cultural attitude. The expected single year's experience worked well in this regard. I would file this one in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" column.

The location isn't important. The coaching staff simply wants them to get away, room with people who they do not know or on the surface don't seem compatible. And you are correct, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[dgibbons]

Not really. As I inferred in my post, the true Metropolitan area for the Tri-Cities (the 250K figure) was just lumping the 3 towns together, but Wiki uses the Census newest definition of MSA (totally legit) of bringing in the entire counties! So it is misleading on numerous levels since those Tri-Cities numbers represent people who live CLOSE, the MSA numbers for Spokane do NOT....

EDIT: in the interest of fairness, upon further review, it appears the figures all are a mish-mash of truth. In a very quick addition of the Tri-C (just the cities) I came to only 200K. Still, that is a lot of people real close

I think you mean upon first review, but that's OK.

The Tri-Cities don't have suburbs, so whatever point you're trying to convince people you're right on doesn't make any sense to begin with.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I think the main thing with Lewiston is that it is close, but far enough away. Colfax would not keep the players from distraction. I think Tri-Cities would be better, just to reach out to that fan-base a bit more.

Holy sh!t, fall camp in the Tri's? I think it would be a HUGE hit, not that that is what Leach is wanting or looking for.

 

[95coug]

I think you mean upon first review, but that's OK.

The Tri-Cities don't have suburbs, so whatever point you're trying to convince people you're right on doesn't make any sense to begin with.

The Spokane MSA includes all of Spokane, Stevens, and Pend O'reille counties - 5,642 square miles - so does not focus only on the people who live "close".
K-R is 2,945 sq mi.

Spokane-Spokane Valley MSA has a 2015(census) population estimate of 547,824.
Kennewick-Richland MSA has 279,116.

I think traffic and travel time is the real root discussion here, and Tri-Cities wins that comparison. Pretty much any point in TC is within 20 minutes of every other point. The same cannot be said of Spokane. Within that definition of what qualifies as "close", 213,272 live in the city of Spokane, and 216,341 live in the cities of Richland-Kennewick-Pasco-West Richland. So the two markets are comparable. The difference is that Spokane has showed a high degree of ambivalence toward the Cougs in spite of efforts being made. Tri-Cities has seen little effort in their direction in 20+ years, has been receptive to limited events in the past, and is basically untapped. Why not throw fall camp here for a season or two (ample facilities are available), and see what happens?

 

[SCglory]

I think you mean upon first review, but that's OK.

The Tri-Cities don't have suburbs, so whatever point you're trying to convince people you're right on doesn't make any sense to begin with.

It has nothing to do with suburbs.....the Census Bureau has used different definitions of urban areas over the years, so just keep them out of it. My point is that the people in the TC (the 200K) are closer in to any potential practice facility.

And, I would guess that that MSA will outpace Spokane, if only because of the weather

 

[dgibbons]

The Spokane MSA includes all of Spokane, Stevens, and Pend O'reille counties - 5,642 square miles - so does not focus only on the people who live "close".
K-R is 2,945 sq mi.

Spokane-Spokane Valley MSA has a 2015(census) population estimate of 547,824.
Kennewick-Richland MSA has 279,116.

I think traffic and travel time is the real root discussion here, and Tri-Cities wins that comparison. Pretty much any point in TC is within 20 minutes of every other point. The same cannot be said of Spokane. Within that definition of what qualifies as "close", 213,272 live in the city of Spokane, and 216,341 live in the cities of Richland-Kennewick-Pasco-West Richland. So the two markets are comparable. The difference is that Spokane has showed a high degree of ambivalence toward the Cougs in spite of efforts being made. Tri-Cities has seen little effort in their direction in 20+ years, has been receptive to limited events in the past, and is basically untapped. Why not throw fall camp here for a season or two (ample facilities are available), and see what happens?

Again, there is nothing surrounding the Tri-Cities. No Airway Heights, Mead, Colbert, Cheney, Veradale, Greenacres, Medical Lake, etc. Spokane Valley borders the City of Spokane and about 80,000 people live in Spokane Valley.

 

[dgibbons]

It has nothing to do with suburbs.....the Census Bureau has used different definitions of urban areas over the years, so just keep them out of it. My point is that the people in the TC (the 200K) are closer in to any potential practice facility.

And, I would guess that that MSA will outpace Spokane, if only because of the weather

You're hitting CougEd levels of posting without knowing what you're talking about.

 

[95coug]

Again, there is nothing surrounding the Tri-Cities. No Airway Heights, Mead, Colbert, Cheney, Veradale, Greenacres, Medical Lake, etc. Spokane Valley borders the City of Spokane and about 80,000 people live in Spokane Valley.

It's about distance and travel time. It takes the better part of an hour to get from any of those suburbs into central Spokane. From any point in Tri-Cities, you are anywhere else in less than half that time. In an hour, you're 40 miles out of town.

 

[dgibbons]

It's about distance and travel time. It takes the better part of an hour to get from any of those suburbs into central Spokane. From any point in Tri-Cities, you are anywhere else in less than half that time. In an hour, you're 40 miles out of town.

So, you're saying that Spokane is a larger metropolitan area, both by population and geography.

And you're wrong about the distance and time travel.

 

[SCglory]

You're hitting CougEd levels of posting without knowing what you're talking about.

Yaki is right: you're just an idiot. I know more about PNW geography than you will EVER learn. Here are the percentages of growth. The TC is by far outpacing Spokane:

Percentages of Growth

Year (% growth from last decade) Spokane Kennewick Richland Pasco
1980 .5% 126.1% 27.7% 32.4%
1990 3.4% 22.6% -3.8% 10.4%
2000 10.4% 29.7% 19.8% 57.7%
2010 6.8% 35.1% 24.2% 86.4%

With the exception of the Hanford massive layoff that impacted Richland's 1990 numbers, the Tri-Cities completely dominated Spokane in growth and will continue to do so. I even started in 1980, which gave Spokane a chance to get a bump from Expo '74. But they did not, only managing an anemic .5% growth, virtually plateauing. The cougs should really go after the TC market big-time, and stop pretending like it's 1970, when it comes to growth east of the Cascades. You're done.

 

[SCglory]

It's about distance and travel time. It takes the better part of an hour to get from any of those suburbs into central Spokane. From any point in Tri-Cities, you are anywhere else in less than half that time. In an hour, you're 40 miles out of town.

you're of course right. Yet another advantage for the Tri-Cities is that the great interchange of freeways comes together right at this point, giving quick access to I-82 up the Valley, 395, or even I-84 into Oregon, etc. Spokane is one vast choke point for traffic, forcing endless miles on surface streets

 

[dgibbons]

Yaki is right: you're just an idiot. I know more about PNW geography than you will EVER learn. Here are the percentages of growth. The TC is by far outpacing Spokane:

Percentages of Growth

Year (% growth from last decade) Spokane Kennewick Richland Pasco
1980 .5% 126.1% 27.7% 32.4%
1990 3.4% 22.6% -3.8% 10.4%
2000 10.4% 29.7% 19.8% 57.7%
2010 6.8% 35.1% 24.2% 86.4%

With the exception of the Hanford massive layoff that impacted Richland's 1990 numbers, the Tri-Cities completely dominated Spokane in growth and will continue to do so. I even started in 1980, which gave Spokane a chance to get a bump from Expo '74. But they did not, only managing an anemic .5% growth, virtually plateauing. The cougs should really go after the TC market big-time, and stop pretending like it's 1970, when it comes to growth east of the Cascades. You're done.

Much like CougEd you're changing the topic after spouting off about things you don't understand. Growth is your new topic.

 

[CrimsonWazzu]

"If only," huh? Maybe.
BTW, what is real reason camp is in Lewiston? Lewiston is a hole (literally) in all seasons, but in August? Was Leach looking for a climate to approximate the north Texas Plains?

They like the feel of the area, away from campus, forces the team to bond, keeps them really tight on schedule.

The real reason imo? He doesn't want the players out til 3am getting hammered during the pre-semester partying that goes on continuously for the 2 weeks prior to classes starting. This was always an issue even when our teams were good. Big factor in mitigating fatigue and getting the most out of the short time they have to prepare for the season.

 

[Cougatron]

But what in the world is so "bonding" about Lewiston??

It's not the place. It's the process.

It's away from campus and distractions. What you have is your teammates, coaches, and football and that's pretty much it.

It's actually a really smart idea because when people all arrive on campus there are tons of parties, girls, etc. which can distract from camp and practice.

This cuts all of that out and puts you with the guys in the locker room who you will be working with all season long. You get to form bonds that will last all year and probably for their whole collegiate careers.

 

[Coug1990]

It's not the place. It's the process.

It's away from campus and distractions. What you have is your teammates, coaches, and football and that's pretty much it.

It's actually a really smart idea because when people all arrive on campus there are tons of parties, girls, etc. which can distract from camp and practice.

This cuts all of that out and puts you with the guys in the locker room who you will be working with all season long. You get to form bonds that will last all year and probably for their whole collegiate careers.

Yep. The staff has the entire time mapped out. In the off times, the players are spending the time together as a team.

If it were on campus, each close friendship group would all go their separate ways after practice.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

It's not the place. It's the process.

It's away from campus and distractions. What you have is your teammates, coaches, and football and that's pretty much it.

It's actually a really smart idea because when people all arrive on campus there are tons of parties, girls, etc. which can distract from camp and practice.

This cuts all of that out and puts you with the guys in the locker room who you will be working with all season long. You get to form bonds that will last all year and probably for their whole collegiate careers.

The should do fall camp in Samoa.

 

[CougPatrol]

Back to topic, last night I watched the highlight video recaps of all of our big games last season. It's astonishing how many down to the wire games we were involved in, and objectively, I can understand the two distinct opinions about how our 2016 season will go.

The skeptics can legitimately point to the fact that in most of our games, WSU was unable to separate from their opponents. UCLA, Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UW, recruit better than we do, so they should be improved over us. Stanford and ASU get us at home. Oregon will have a better QB (their opinion) than the one we faced in 2015. Rosen is a year older, and UCLA has better players. Arizona's defense can't be any worse, so they can be a threat.

Coug fans can legitimately say that we were in almost every game last year, and should have won the PSU, Cal, and Stanford games. Falk was a first year starter, and the offense returns virtually everyone, so good luck holding us under 50 points and keeping our offense off the field. Defensive recruiting has been significantly improved, our secondary is dominant, and we have great coaching.

I'm glad the majority of the pundits have us picked lower than we expect. I see their point, but I do feel that we're at least an 8 win team. We shall see.

 

[kayak15]

The should do fall camp in Samoa.

Got a chuckle out of this. All in favor of getting away from Pullman early in the Fall camp but Pago Pago might be a teensy bit too far away. The ocean beaches and Polynesian cuties might present a distraction too so I vote "no". Keep those Ideas coming though.

 

[95coug]

Back to topic, last night I watched the highlight video recaps of all of our big games last season. It's astonishing how many down to the wire games we were involved in, and objectively, I can understand the two distinct opinions about how our 2016 season will go.

The skeptics can legitimately point to the fact that in most of our games, WSU was unable to separate from their opponents. UCLA, Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UW, recruit better than we do, so they should be improved over us. Stanford and ASU get us at home. Oregon will have a better QB (their opinion) than the one we faced in 2015. Rosen is a year older, and UCLA has better players. Arizona's defense can't be any worse, so they can be a threat.

Coug fans can legitimately say that we were in almost every game last year, and should have won the PSU, Cal, and Stanford games. Falk was a first year starter, and the offense returns virtually everyone, so good luck holding us under 50 points and keeping our offense off the field. Defensive recruiting has been significantly improved, our secondary is dominant, and we have great coaching.

I'm glad the majority of the pundits have us picked lower than we expect. I see their point, but I do feel that we're at least an 8 win team. We shall see.

Let me pick apart the skeptics:

'WSU was unable to separate from their opponents'
Well, first year starter at QB, and it took a little time to make things mesh right. Combine that with some growing pains and youthful jitters, and the offense occasionally sputtered. This year, they're veterans and know how to win. That should mean less sputtering, more scoring, and more separation . And that's if the defense is no better than last year.

'UCLA, Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UW, recruit better than we do, so they should be improved over us'
It ain't about recruiting, it's about coaching. If recruiting really was determinative, we'd never win a conference game.

'Stanford and ASU get us at home'
And they both replace more key players than we do

'Oregon will have a better QB (their opinion) than the one we faced in 2015.'

Maybe. But we'll have a better QB than the one they faced too.

'Rosen is a year older, and UCLA has better players.'
Weird. Falk is a year older too. They had better players last year, and we beat them in their house. This year, we get them at home.

I think the O will be fine. If the D is exactly the same as last year, except they learn how to keep the QB in the pocket, we win two more games.

 

[MRICoug]

Let me pick apart the skeptics:

'WSU was unable to separate from their opponents'
Well, first year starter at QB, and it took a little time to make things mesh right. Combine that with some growing pains and youthful jitters, and the offense occasionally sputtered. This year, they're veterans and know how to win. That should mean less sputtering, more scoring, and more separation . And that's if the defense is no better than last year.

'UCLA, Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UW, recruit better than we do, so they should be improved over us'
It ain't about recruiting, it's about coaching. If recruiting really was determinative, we'd never win a conference game.

'Stanford and ASU get us at home'
And they both replace more key players than we do

'Oregon will have a better QB (their opinion) than the one we faced in 2015.'

Maybe. But we'll have a better QB than the one they faced too.

'Rosen is a year older, and UCLA has better players.'
Weird. Falk is a year older too. They had better players last year, and we beat them in their house. This year, we get them at home.

I think the O will be fine. If the D is exactly the same as last year, except they learn how to keep the QB in the pocket, we win two more games.

I think it gets lost in the shuffle too much that Bender not only hurt us in the AC, but was also the sealing turnover in the PSU game as Falk came up gimpy after a first down run....anyone else think that if he stayed in we would be talking about another clutch finish?

 

[95coug]

I think it gets lost in the shuffle too much that Bender not only hurt us in the AC, but was also the sealing turnover in the PSU game as Falk came up gimpy after a first down run....anyone else think that if he stayed in we would be talking about another clutch finish?

True. But to avoid piling too much negative on Bender, I think it's also fair to point out that he threw a TD in relief at UCLA, without which we don't win.

 

[MRICoug]

True. But to avoid piling too much negative on Bender, I think it's also fair to point out that he threw a TD in relief at UCLA, without which we don't win.

Yes, but many do seem to assume that Falk lost that PSU game. Not bashing Bender, more of imagining what could have been...ah well, hope we see it this year!