Would Tracy C run that scheme

[CougEd]

Dorian Thompson Robinson is similar to 2017 Khalil Tate? Do you just post this stuff in the hopes no one goes back and actually looks it up?

2019 DTR: 59.7%, 7.5 YPA, 21 TDs, 12 Ints, 198 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs

2017 Tate: 62%, 8.9 YPA, 14 TDs, 9 Ints, 1411 rushing yards, 12 rushing TDs

The comparison is intellectually dishonest. Do better.

Do better, why? DTR was the number two dual rated qb by rivals in the country coming out of HS. He is as athletically gifted as Tate. Do you think in 95 UW said this is a one time occurrence when they played Ryan Leaf because he hadn't shown it "BEFORE".

Yes, to your point DTR played to that point way over his head in terms of experience. He has the physical gifts to similar things as to what he did. Also it helps when you get several short fields to work on.

But holy cow 58 point is 58 points. We played Tate in 2017 like he was Joe Namath. The head coach even said so.

But if you want stats here are some stats. Just maybe they are better-- Stat line A 18/30 294 passing, 4 TD's, 1 pick, 8 rushing attempts for 25 yards or stat line B 10/17, 275 and 2 TD's 1 pick passing and 13 rushing attempts for 146 yards. Which D did better?

 

[Cougar_Guy]

Do better, why? DTR was the number one rated qb in the country coming out of HS. He is as athletically gifted as Tate. Do you think in 95 UW said this is a one time occurrence when they played Ryan Leaf because he hadn't shown it "BEFORE".

Yes, to your point DTR played to that point way over his head in terms of experience. He has the physical gifts to similar things as to what he did. Also it helps when you get several short fields to work on.

But holy cow 58 point is 58 points. We played Tate in 2017 like he was Joe Namath. The head coach even said so.

But if you want stats here are some stats. Just maybe they are better-- Stat line A 18/30 294 passing, 4 TD's, 1 pick, 8 rushing attempts for 25 yards or stat line B 10/17, 275 and 2 TD's 1 pick passing and 13 rushing attempts for 146 yards. Which D did better?

Weren't Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence both in the same recruiting class and higher ranked?

Tate's career took an unfortunate turn as he's basically dealt with injuries every since his sophomore year. He's a classic, "what coulda been" guy. Maybe DTR could develop into that but he certainly hasn't shown the same athletic ability so far. Tate rushed for more yards in a game than DTR did in a season.

 

[dgibbons]

Do better, why? DTR was the number one rated qb in the country coming out of HS. He is as athletically gifted as Tate. Do you think in 95 UW said this is a one time occurrence when they played Ryan Leaf because he hadn't shown it "BEFORE".

Yes, to your point DTR played to that point way over his head in terms of experience. He has the physical gifts to similar things as to what he did. Also it helps when you get several short fields to work on.

But holy cow 58 point is 58 points. We played Tate in 2017 like he was Joe Namath. The head coach even said so.

But if you want stats here are some stats. Just maybe they are better-- Stat line A 18/30 294 passing, 4 TD's, 1 pick, 8 rushing attempts for 25 yards or stat line B 10/17, 275 and 2 TD's 1 pick passing and 13 rushing attempts for 146 yards. Which D did better?

Not the number one QB coming out of HS. Cool 90s reference.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Do better, why? DTR was the number one rated qb in the country coming out of HS. He is as athletically gifted as Tate. Do you think in 95 UW said this is a one time occurrence when they played Ryan Leaf because he hadn't shown it "BEFORE".

Yes, to your point DTR played to that point way over his head in terms of experience. He has the physical gifts to similar things as to what he did. Also it helps when you get several short fields to work on.

But holy cow 58 point is 58 points. We played Tate in 2017 like he was Joe Namath. The head coach even said so.

But if you want stats here are some stats. Just maybe they are better-- Stat line A 18/30 294 passing, 4 TD's, 1 pick, 8 rushing attempts for 25 yards or stat line B 10/17, 275 and 2 TD's 1 pick passing and 13 rushing attempts for 146 yards. Which D did better?

Man, you will just argue anything won't you?

Tate and Arizona's offense was far better in 2017 than DTR & UCLA in 2019. There's no sense in trying to argue otherwise.

 

[CougEd]

Not the number one QB coming out of HS. Cool 90s reference.

Sorry I mistyped and to clarify...DTR was the number TWO DUAL threat QB in the country bhind Justin Fields as reported by Rivals. They also said he was the number 7 QB in the country.

OMG that totally changes the narrative...I see your point.

 

[dgibbons]

Sorry I mistyped and to clarify...DTR was the number TWO DUAL threat QB in the country bhind Justin Fields as reported by Rivals. They also said he was the number 7 QB in the country.

OMG that totally changes the narrative...I see your point.

False narrative is kind of your thing. Along with bitching and moaning.

 

[CougEd]

Man, you will just argue anything won't you?

Tate and Arizona's offense was far better in 2017 than DTR & UCLA in 2019. There's no sense in trying to argue otherwise.

Here is what you are argueing. That 58 point is vastly different than the 67. Break this down....WSU on defense against UCLA's offense- first TD was after a fumble by WSU on their own 28. The second TD was on a kickoff. The fourth TD came after the Cougs fumbled on their own 32. 6th TD came after Cougs fumbled on their own 32. 8th came on a punt return. The ninth came after Cougs fumbled on their own 27. Their average scoring drive was 30 yards on 4 of their scoring drives.

But I do see your point.

 

[CougEd]

False narrative is kind of your thing. Along with bitching and moaning.

Dblithers-on...Yes difference between being ranked one and seven in the country changes the narrative completely.

 

[dgibbons]

Dblithers-on...Yes difference between being ranked one and seven in the country changes the narrative completely.

Obviously attention to detail and facts are not your thing.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Here is what you are argueing. That 58 point is vastly different than the 67. Break this down....WSU on defense against UCLA's offense- first TD was after a fumble by WSU on their own 28. The second TD was on a kickoff. The fourth TD came after the Cougs fumbled on their own 32. 6th TD came after Cougs fumbled on their own 32. 8th came on a punt return. The ninth came after Cougs fumbled on their own 27. Their average scoring drive was 30 yards on 4 of their scoring drives.

But I do see your point.

So, compare yards allowed then.

To UCLA: 657
To Arizona: 585

One was the best offense in the conference. The other was 9th.

 

[CougEd]

So, compare yards allowed then.

To UCLA: 657
To Arizona: 585

One was the best offense in the conference. The other was 9th.

I hear you . Maybe a better comparison would be a direct comparison , 2018 and 2017. Are you saying giving up 58 is better than giving up 28 ish.

But the point being lost is what did you see in 2018 that said with Claeys he isn’t qualified or a huge downgrade from Grinch . ?

 

[Fab5Coug]

I hear you . Maybe a better comparison would be a direct comparison , 2018 and 2017. Are you saying giving up 58 is better than giving up 28 ish.

But the point being lost is what did you see in 2018 that said with Claeys he isn’t qualified or a huge downgrade from Grinch . ?

Did I say that somewhere?

And I don't know where "28ish" points comes into play.

 

[CougEd]

Obviously attention to detail and facts are not your thing.

When the fact is the difference between being the number two rated play by one service vs one, or number 7 overall, yeah that is an Insignificant . Like the name Tate vs Hill when we are talking about Khalil the qb for Arizona .

 

[Cougar_Guy]

When the fact is the difference between being the number two rated play by one service vs one, or number 7 overall, yeah that is an Insignificant . Like the name Tate vs Hill when we are talking about Khalil the qb for Arizona .

So you're honestly saying there is an "insignificant" amount of difference between Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, and Dorian Thompson-Robinson? That is a weak take, and it feels like you're arguing just to argue.

Maybe Claeys was a qualified hire and maybe he did a decent job in 2018... but he clearly drove this thing into a ditch and then quit. Given his track record of poor judgement at Minnesota, I don't feel you can give the guy the benefit of the doubt here.

DTR is also a poor comparison to Khalil Tate... Tate rushed for 1400+ yards and set the NCAA single game rushing record for a QB as a sophomore. DTR has never even approached 100 rush yards in a game. Yeah Tate has since been slowed by injuries, but I hope he gets healthy again someday because that guy is a freak athlete and fun to watch when not playing the Cougs.

 

[CougEd]

Did I say that somewhere?

And I don't know where "28ish" points comes into play.

In 2017 under Grinch wsu gave up 58. In 2018 against the same Arizona team we gave up 28.

 

[CougEd]

So you're honestly saying there is an "insignificant" amount of difference between Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, and Dorian Thompson-Robinson? That is a weak take, and it feels like you're arguing just to argue.

Maybe Claeys was a qualified hire and maybe he did a decent job in 2018... but he clearly drove this thing into a ditch and then quit. Given his track record of poor judgement at Minnesota, I don't feel you can give the guy the benefit of the doubt here.

DTR is also a poor comparison to Khalil Tate... Tate rushed for 1400+ yards and set the NCAA single game rushing record for a QB as a sophomore. DTR has never even approached 100 rush yards in a game. Yeah Tate has since been slowed by injuries, but I hope he gets healthy again someday because that guy is a freak athlete and fun to watch when not playing the Cougs.

I talked about "potential talent". and where DTR was ranked and hyped coming out of high school. And saying Claeys drove it into the ditch after watching what happened against ASU,(who scored 19 a game before our game), Oregon (allowing them to drive the field in a min 30) and especially in the bowl game, it makes it harder to evaluate who drove it off into the ditch.....which has been the point.

 

[Fab5Coug]

In 2017 under Grinch wsu gave up 58. In 2018 against the same Arizona team we gave up 28.

Weren't you all over my ass about Kevin Sumlin not even 2 days ago? New coach, new system, hobbled Tate, AZ school playing in 20 degree temp? Plus, UA was mailing that game in half way through the 2nd quarter.

These comparisons are ridiculous and you know it. I don't even know, or care what point you're trying to make.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Claeys got by with Grinch's guys for a year. Thank God Pelleur was granted a 6th year. The D would have been crap without him.

In any case, he quit mid season. He and Marquess can go F themselves.

 

[CougEd]

Claeys got by with Grinch's guys for a year. Thank God Pelleur was granted a 6th year. The D would have been crap without him.

In any case, he quit mid season. He and Marquess can go F themselves.

If your discussion is he sucks because he quit, I get it. But I dont remember ANY concerns with regards to Claeys prior the UCLA game. NONE.

He had a good resume, one far more extensive than Roc and Darcel. One that Leach entrusted in. Which was the initial point of the thread. Was Claeys the real problem, or are the problems on the sideline now and they just need to grow up or out?

Chip brought up the UCLA game. When your opponent has to move 30 yards at a time to score four TD's, and 2 more are on the ST's, and 42 of the 67 are in good part on the other units, and we USE that game as an indication of his coaching ability, and not sue his game against us in the bowl game and the other good things he did in 2018, I think is what you call intellectually dishonest.

DTR is a very raw but talented athlete. Should he be able to score 67 in a game? Nope, but if you had 4 overtimes and put the ball on the 25 yard line, I would suspect he would have some success putting the ball in the end zone four times, and that is essentially what we did.

Either Claeys is the biggest emotional marshmallow and quits at a drop of the hat, taking his ball and walking home, or that side of the ball was to toxic he was willing to leave almost 2 million on the table for his sanity.

And yes, Pelleur was a big loss, but with him he dd show he could coach equally as well on that side of the ball as Grinch.

 

[Fab5Coug]

If your discussion is he sucks because he quit, I get it. But I dont remember ANY concerns with regards to Claeys prior the UCLA game. NONE.

He had a good resume, one far more extensive than Roc and Darcel. One that Leach entrusted in. Which was the initial point of the thread. Was Claeys the real problem, or are the problems on the sideline now and they just need to grow up or out?

Chip brought up the UCLA game. When your opponent has to move 30 yards at a time to score four TD's, and 2 more are on the ST's, and 42 of the 67 are in good part on the other units, and we USE that game as an indication of his coaching ability, and not sue his game against us in the bowl game and the other good things he did in 2018, I think is what you call intellectually dishonest.

DTR is a very raw but talented athlete. Should he be able to score 67 in a game? Nope, but if you had 4 overtimes and put the ball on the 25 yard line, I would suspect he would have some success putting the ball in the end zone four times, and that is essentially what we did.

Either Claeys is the biggest emotional marshmallow and quits at a drop of the hat, taking his ball and walking home, or that side of the ball was to toxic he was willing to leave almost 2 million on the table for his sanity.

And yes, Pelleur was a big loss, but with him he dd show he could coach equally as well on that side of the ball as Grinch.

Regardless of the turnovers and special teams, UCLA hung 657 yards on us. That's garbage defense.

I didn't dislike the Claeys hire at the time, and didn't think he did a poor job in 2018, but his 2019, for whatever reason, was a disaster. Then he quit, so good riddance to him.

 

[Tx64]

Regardless of the turnovers and special teams, UCLA hung 657 yards on us. That's garbage defense.

I didn't dislike the Claeys hire at the time, and didn't think he did a poor job in 2018, but his 2019, for whatever reason, was a disaster. Then he quit, so good riddance to him.

I agree with you. He over complicated the defense. He got away from the speed defense.

 

[Fab5Coug]

If your discussion is he sucks because he quit, I get it. But I dont remember ANY concerns with regards to Claeys prior the UCLA game. NONE.

He had a good resume, one far more extensive than Roc and Darcel. One that Leach entrusted in. Which was the initial point of the thread. Was Claeys the real problem, or are the problems on the sideline now and they just need to grow up or out?

Chip brought up the UCLA game. When your opponent has to move 30 yards at a time to score four TD's, and 2 more are on the ST's, and 42 of the 67 are in good part on the other units, and we USE that game as an indication of his coaching ability, and not sue his game against us in the bowl game and the other good things he did in 2018, I think is what you call intellectually dishonest.

DTR is a very raw but talented athlete. Should he be able to score 67 in a game? Nope, but if you had 4 overtimes and put the ball on the 25 yard line, I would suspect he would have some success putting the ball in the end zone four times, and that is essentially what we did.

Either Claeys is the biggest emotional marshmallow and quits at a drop of the hat, taking his ball and walking home, or that side of the ball was to toxic he was willing to leave almost 2 million on the table for his sanity.

And yes, Pelleur was a big loss, but with him he dd show he could coach equally as well on that side of the ball as Grinch.

And I get it that UCLA had more possessions that game, but just look at DTR's rate stats to balance that out.

He averaged 7.5 YPA on the year. 13.34 vs us. 59.7 completion % on the year. 65.8 vs us. 134.9 QB rating on the year. 216 vs us.

I mean, my God man. That's not just a good day based on a few extra posessions. That's better than Joe Burrow.

 

[CougEd]

So you're honestly saying there is an "insignificant" amount of difference between Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, and Dorian Thompson-Robinson? That is a weak take, and it feels like you're arguing just to argue.

Maybe Claeys was a qualified hire and maybe he did a decent job in 2018... but he clearly drove this thing into a ditch and then quit. Given his track record of poor judgement at Minnesota, I don't feel you can give the guy the benefit of the doubt here.

DTR is also a poor comparison to Khalil Tate... Tate rushed for 1400+ yards and set the NCAA single game rushing record for a QB as a sophomore. DTR has never even approached 100 rush yards in a game. Yeah Tate has since been slowed by injuries, but I hope he gets healthy again someday because that guy is a freak athlete and fun to watch when not playing the Cougs.

Wow...Tate and DTR are comparable athletes . One who excelled early, maybe in part because no one knew how to defend him and didn’t have the scouting report yet . But don’t fool yourself , in terms of athletic talent DTR is up their with Tate and Fields. NO DTR is not accomplished yet. But athletes are CAPABLE of performances . May be a one time occurrence . They just aren’t consistent .

Just out of curiosity, based on pure athletic ability who has better escapability ? Who has better open end speed once outside the pocket. Are the differences in physical difference that appreciably different?

And what did Claeys do as a defense coach at Minnesota that gave anyone “pause”.

 

[CougEd]

And I get it that UCLA had more possessions that game, but just look at DTR's rate stats to balance that out.

He averaged 7.5 YPA on the year. 13.34 vs us. 59.7 completion % on the year. 65.8 vs us. 134.9 QB rating on the year. 216 vs us.

I mean, my God man. That's not just a good day based on a few extra posessions. That's better than Joe Burrow.

And I get it that UCLA had more possessions that game, but just look at DTR's rate stats to balance that out.

He averaged 7.5 YPA on the year. 13.34 vs us. 59.7 completion % on the year. 65.8 vs us. 134.9 QB rating on the year. 216 vs us.

I mean, my God man. That's not just a good day based on a few extra posessions. That's better than Joe Burrow.

UCLA scores 42 points on a short field and st tds.

One game is what you are basing “he is garbage” on. Because of ST’s and short field not sure that one game is a barometer.

And back to the original point,after seeing the AF game you really believe his game plans were the problem?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Wow...Tate and DTR are comparable athletes . One who excelled early, maybe in part because no one knew how to defend him and didn’t have the scouting report yet . But don’t fool yourself , in terms of athletic talent DTR is up their with Tate and Fields. NO DTR is not accomplished yet. But athletes are CAPABLE of performances . May be a one time occurrence . They just aren’t consistent .

Just out of curiosity, based on pure athletic ability who has better escapability ? Who has better open end speed once outside the pocket. Are the differences in physical difference that appreciably different?

And what did Claeys do as a defense coach at Minnesota that gave anyone “pause”.

Dorian Thompson Robinson sucks. So does Tracey Claeys, and so does Paul Wulff.

This whole thing is so much easier if you just look at what people have actually done Ed. Or if you just stop arguing on behalf of people who suck at things.

 

[Fab5Coug]

UCLA scores 42 points on a short field and st tds.

One game is what you are basing “he is garbage” on. Because of ST’s and short field not sure that one game is a barometer.

And back to the original point,after seeing the AF game you really believe his game plans were the problem?

The game plan against Air Force was atrocious. So, Bellatoni and McBath sucked too. They all sucked.

 

[CougPatrol]

I had a lot of concerns about Claeys from the day we hired him, and my concerns turned out to be spot on. An older, former Big10 head coach rebounding as a defensive coordinator on the heels of an ugly scandal at Minnesota.

Where was his head at? Was he fully invested in WSU? Would be able assimilate with Leach and the rest of the coaching staff? Would be a successful recruiter?

The answers to all of the above was a resounding NO.

 

[CougEd]

I had a lot of concerns about Claeys from the day we hired him, and my concerns turned out to be spot on. An older, former Big10 head coach rebounding as a defensive coordinator on the heels of an ugly scandal at Minnesota.

Where was his head at? Was he fully invested in WSU? Would be able assimilate with Leach and the rest of the coaching staff? Would be a successful recruiter?

The answers to all of the above was a resounding NO.

Why did those concerns not rear their head in 2018? I have never been of the mindset coaches forget how to coach from one year to the next.

 

[dgibbons]

And I get it that UCLA had more possessions that game, but just look at DTR's rate stats to balance that out.

He averaged 7.5 YPA on the year. 13.34 vs us. 59.7 completion % on the year. 65.8 vs us. 134.9 QB rating on the year. 216 vs us.

I mean, my God man. That's not just a good day based on a few extra posessions. That's better than Joe Burrow.

He was the first of I believe three opposing QBs to earn PAC-13 offensive player of the week after facing the defense.

 

[CougPatrol]

Why did those concerns not rear their head in 2018? I have never been of the mindset coaches forget how to coach from one year to the next.

Because the talent and fundamentals were exceptionally better in 2018. Like, light years better than what we had this season.

Logan Tago, Peyton Pelleur, Hunter Dale, Darrien Molton, Jalen Thompson. These losses were massive. We literally lost every position group leader on the defense. DL, LB, Safety, and CB. Molton wasn’t elite, but he was a 4 year starter. Tackling was better. Positioning was better. Coverage was better.

So yea. Claeys came to Pullman had a year with the guys I mentioned above to go along with Minshew magic and he bolted mid-season 2019 when the cupboards were bare. I credit him with absolutely nothing during his time at WSU. Alex Grinch was a Hell of a lot more responsible for our defensive play last season. That can’t be argued in the slightest. Probably why Ohio State and then Oklahoma hired him away.

 

[etowncoug]

Why did those concerns not rear their head in 2018? I have never been of the mindset coaches forget how to coach from one year to the next.

The concerns about Claeys when he came in were the things that lead to his downfall. Claeys was never going to be a dominant personality, not was he a big accountability guy. He was a good play caller and designed good schemes. The 2018 squad had lots of leadership and Claeys made relatively minor tweaks to the scheme.

This year they were discussing being a team with 11 leaders, a sign that you don't have leadership. Instead of playing primarily zone, Claeys had us play a lot more man. Guys were thinking rather than reacting. Our defense looked completely lost against Utah. Considering the challenges unique to 2019, Claeys wasn't equipped to stem the tide.

Once Claeys left the defense stopped looking lost and we ran into the second challenge: we weren't very good.

 

[Cougar_Guy]

Wow...Tate and DTR are comparable athletes . One who excelled early, maybe in part because no one knew how to defend him and didn’t have the scouting report yet . But don’t fool yourself , in terms of athletic talent DTR is up their with Tate and Fields. NO DTR is not accomplished yet. But athletes are CAPABLE of performances . May be a one time occurrence . They just aren’t consistent .

Just out of curiosity, based on pure athletic ability who has better escapability ? Who has better open end speed once outside the pocket. Are the differences in physical difference that appreciably different?

And what did Claeys do as a defense coach at Minnesota that gave anyone “pause”.

Clearly, based on their on the field performance, Tate is a better athlete than DTR. Doesn't mean DTR isn't a good athlete, but Tate displayed historic abilities. Nothing DTR has done over two seasons is in the same league as 2017 Tate. Unfortunately since the 2017 season Tate has been injured several times, has gained weight, and may not ever return to 2017 form.

I'm sure you're well aware of Claeys' poor decisions that led to his firing at UM. In my opinion, he demonstrated poor judgement with how he handled himself and his exit from WSU.

 

[etowncoug]

Because the talent and fundamentals were exceptionally better in 2018. Like, light years better than what we had this season.

Logan Tago, Peyton Pelleur, Hunter Dale, Darrien Molton, Jalen Thompson. These losses were massive. We literally lost every position group leader on the defense. DL, LB, Safety, and CB. Molton wasn’t elite, but he was a 4 year starter. Tackling was better. Positioning was better. Coverage was better.

So yea. Claeys came to Pullman had a year with the guys I mentioned above to go along with Minshew magic and he bolted mid-season 2019 when the cupboards were bare. I credit him with absolutely nothing during his time at WSU. Alex Grinch was a Hell of a lot more responsible for our defensive play last season. That can’t be argued in the slightest. Probably why Ohio State and then Oklahoma hired him away.

I do credit Claeys for not changing too much in 2018. Plenty of coaches would try to put their signature on the defense and it probably would have resulted in a few more losses. But this same trait worked against him in 2019. Plus quitting midseason is a bad look.

 

[ElComanche]

I guess the 3 man front is why the defense stopped looking lost? Claeys will survive and become a D coordinator again The two cougs assistants will probably be back next year as no one else will hire them after that debacle

 

[fingerdisco]

I guess the 3 man front is why the defense stopped looking lost? Claeys will survive and become a D coordinator again The two cougs assistants will probably be back next year as no one else will hire them after that debacle

They are indentured to WSU because nobody else will hire them?