Yes Virginia ...........

[SaveFerris]

Not sure I used the adjective “really”. I said good coaches . Eastman had success before Pullman . Bone had success before Pullman. Graham had been with a successful coach at osu and was well respected .

Maybe the point wasn’t well articulated , WSU is a really tough gig .

The ones who fail usually weren't very good to begin with. We rolled the dice for whatever reason. I don't know that Eastman was exactly tearing it up at UNC Wilmington. He was 6 games over .500 and his highest finish was 3rd place in the Colonial Athletic Association. Sampson left him a bit of talent to work with.

Graham wasn't a head coach and more importantly was without question totally incompetent to be a head coach at any level.

I'll give you Bone so that's 1 out of 11? WSU is a really difficult gig but the good coaches have found success.

I am glad Dick was the head coach to start but was also excited Tony was obviously the coach-in-waiting. It probably would have taken longer but Tony would have figured it out just like the other really good coaches have in Pullman over the years.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Graham had been with a successful coach at osu and was well respected.

I had to laugh out loud on that one. Paul Graham was the third assistant of Eddie Sutton and in no way was qualified to be a head basketball coach anywhere, much less a Pac-10/12 school. What evidence do you have that Graham was "well respected."?

Glad Cougar

 

[Observer11]

Yes, that ks exactly what has been said. We are talking about Tony and his time at WSU. So I am clear
1) I don't think Tony as a head coach without his dad is successful at WSU. Not a knock, but his dad laid the foundation.
2) WSU isn't for the weary, It can break a lot of good coaches.
3) Dick Bennett is special.
4) It would be akin for Donald Trump and his self reported 10 billion handing it over to Eric and at the end of three years he has 7 billion and someone saying he was the reason a big reason there is 7 billion left.
5) WSU would have been better off if someone was handed the program after Tony's first season and he went somewhere were he and his wife wanted to live.
6) How did Tony get a Virginia accent?

I have a relative born in the PNW living in the DEEP south - and she has the drawl, y'all. It happens.

 

[7ICoug]

What evidence do you have that Graham was "well respected."?Glad Cougar

My evidence is that he was turned down at least twice for the HC job at his own Alma Mater. He was always a complete dud and there is no evidence to the contrary.

 

[acgcoug]

To reiterate to Ed why it is good for WSU for Tony Bennett to have success...

While running an errand this morning I was listening to a local radio station and suddenly the hosts mentioned Pullman, WA. I was like....what??? I live in California.

They were talking about Virginia winning the big dance, WSU, Tony Bennett, Pullman, attending games when Tony was in Pullman, etc etc, for nearly 10 minutes on this Rock radio station that is aired in central coast California. Come to find out, both these guys graduated from WSU.

Absolutely loved the listen! Pullman/WSU love coming out of a small radio station in central coast Cali.

This is just a small example of the "good" that I am talking about.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I have a relative born in the PNW living in the DEEP south - and she has the drawl, y'all. It happens.

Yeah, I had some cousins who moved to Texas when we were all 10-14 in age. Within a few years they were all full of drawls and y'alls.

To reiterate to Ed why it is good for WSU for Tony Bennett to have success...

While running an errand this morning I was listening to a local radio station and suddenly the hosts mentioned Pullman, WA. I was like....what??? I live in California.

They were talking about Virginia winning the big dance, WSU, Tony Bennett, Pullman, attending games when Tony was in Pullman, etc etc, for nearly 10 minutes on this Rock radio station that is aired in central coast California. Come to find out, both these guys graduated from WSU.

Absolutely loved the listen! Pullman/WSU love coming out of a small radio station in central coast Cali.

This is just a small example of the "good" that I am talking about.

Nice story. Not sure if any potential Cali students and/or student athletes listen to rock and roll these days, but your point is spot on.

 

[avabob11]

Tony and his dad brought in 6 excellent under the radar talents in 2 years before Tony took over. Tony is a great coach and got the most out of those guys. After that group our recruiting consisted largely of Klay and a bunch of guys who were not at the level of that first group. This is supported by the fact that our win total dropped from 26 to 17 when we lost the first 4 of those 6 guys. Klay may go down as the greatest player in the history of WSU, but one guy cant make up for the drop off in over all recruiting after those 2 great classes. Tony would have been hard pressed to improve much over his last season at WSU had he stayed another year.

Again, I believe Tony is a great coach, but it is not about his system. Lots of great defensive teams out there. Tony wins because he has some really good shooters who play defense. He needs long quick guys who can shoot to make his system work. Lots of systems can work with that recipe. Tony happens to be a better coach than a lot of those guys.

Too many sideline critics consider any offense that isnt "Bennett Ball" as run and gun. Bones team played better defense than the got credit for, but because it wasnt as good as Tonys they were run and gun.

 

[CougEd]

Bone should get absolutely no slack, he just wasn't a very good coach and not someone that could be successful at WSU. It was a TERRIBLE hire and no idea why we went that direction. He asked players to completely switch styles and force the ball up the court immediately. It was a Bonehead mistake...

Did Ken ever let you up for air enough to watch?

Yo Jo....Ken is relevant because ? Again, he got fired and deserved so. he had his shot and didn't deliver.

 

[CougEd]

Gonzaga.

Not according to Low...he said in a Rivals interview he was never offered by Gonzaga,

 

[CougEd]

Bennett left Thames and Bone recruited Moore. Talent wasn't the issue. He needed to keep one of them around for 4 years and wasn't able to do it with either.

Sampson had time once he recruited Seltzer for year 3 and the 4 Texas JCs and Washington high school players in year 4. At that point he wasn't going anywhere. If it was about recruiting players Harshman and Motta weren't delivering with mostly JC's like Juan Thomas, Bubba Smith, and LaVar Ball.

Lavar Ball can beat Jordan one on one, just ask him.

Talent plus experience of what was left in the cupboard was the problem. And who knows if things would have been slightly different if Bone got to the tourney in I believe his second year, he was right there on the cusp, and if he didn't lose his top two players. Just maybe that would have given him the time and cred needed.

But I think Ava summed it up best, there was a reason Tony had a drop-off his third year with Casto, Thompson, Rochestie and Baynes. He missed on a crucial class.

 

[etowncoug]

Not according to Low...he said in a Rivals interview he was never offered by Gonzaga,

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/47585

I'm going to trust the database over your memory of an interview of Low.

 

[CougEd]

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/47585

I'm going to trust the database over your memory of an interview of Low.

Not my memory...and I would personally would trust the interview that is linked to that same page vs a check mark.

 

[7ICoug]

Yawn

 

[CougEd]

Yawn

Why the Yawn?

 

[Observer11]

Not according to Low...he said in a Rivals interview he was never offered by Gonzaga,

He never took a visit to Gonzaga.

https://247sports.com/Player/Derrick-Low-67304/high-school-118359/

 

[CougEd]

He never took a visit to Gonzaga.

https://247sports.com/Player/Derrick-Low-67304/high-school-118359/

Not my memory...and I would personally would trust the interview that is linked to that same page vs a check mark.

It sounds like there are two truths. One from what he told Rivals and the other where people who maintain the data put checks by the word "offer."

Mark Reeves
RivalsHoops.com Recruiting Analyst
One of the nation's best kept secrets in the 2004 class, Derrick Low a 6-foot-1, 176-pound point-guard from Iolani School in Honolulu (HI) recently told RivalsHoops that he had a list of four favorites.
Gonzaga, Hawaii, Utah, and Washington State were the finalists for the talented Islander and Low claimed offers from all except the Zags.
Last night Low, who is currently rated the nation’s 140th best player in the prestigious Rivals150, decided to end his recruitment and commit to Dick Bennett and his Washington State program.
“Derrick called Coach Bennett and his staff last night and told them he was going to be a Cougar,” Low’s father Kenneth told RivalsHoops this morning. “He is glad to have the whole recruiting process behind and now he can concentrate on getting ready for his senior season and college.”

 

[etowncoug]

The people who write the stories are the people who input the data into the database. Since 247 (and Scout as well, which is now defunct) had Low with Gonzaga offers. Furthermore, there are no quotes from Low saying he didn't get a Gonzaga offer. My guess is this article is in error because all other evidence points to Low getting an offer from Gonzaga.

 

[CougEd]

The people who write the stories are the people who input the data into the database. Since 247 (and Scout as well, which is now defunct) had Low with Gonzaga offers. Furthermore, there are no quotes from Low saying he didn't get a Gonzaga offer. My guess is this article is in error because all other evidence points to Low getting an offer from Gonzaga.

Low claimed offers from all except the Zags...not sure why the written word is less reliable than someone putting a check mark on a website. I guess the two people who know are Gonzaga and Low, which it was reported by a rivals person saying he didn't get one.

 

[CougEd]

The ones who fail usually weren't very good to begin with. We rolled the dice for whatever reason. I don't know that Eastman was exactly tearing it up at UNC Wilmington. He was 6 games over .500 and his highest finish was 3rd place in the Colonial Athletic Association. Sampson left him a bit of talent to work with.

Graham wasn't a head coach and more importantly was without question totally incompetent to be a head coach at any level.

I'll give you Bone so that's 1 out of 11? WSU is a really difficult gig but the good coaches have found success.

I am glad Dick was the head coach to start but was also excited Tony was obviously the coach-in-waiting. It probably would have taken longer but Tony would have figured it out just like the other really good coaches have in Pullman over the years.

One thing that can be said of Kevin Eastman that most may not remember. He either wanted out so bad or he didn't want to take WSU's money for his last year they owed him. Not often you see that. He seemed to have found a niche in the NBA.

 

[avabob1]

GU WAS GOING against UCLA for a top Cali pg that year. They lost out on the kid and showed late interest Low. Not sure there was ever an offer because Dick pretty much had him sewed up by the time GU got to him as a plan B.

 

[CougEd]

So I guess Derick remembers it differently? He's quoted as saying Tony specifically was a big reason he came to WSU and how they connected during his recruiting in a brandx article. Do you have a quote from the coach? Low also had offers from Utah and Gonzaga.



As you have said Dick was going to step aside. They all knew Tony was going to become the head coach. Commence deflecting.

Deflecting on what? There are just some questions that is all. If TB is the coach instead of Dick, and he had no history does Low come to WSU? He did have an offer from Utah, there is some disagreement whether he had one from Gonzaga.

 

[etowncoug]

Low claimed offers from all except the Zags...not sure why the written word is less reliable than someone putting a check mark on a website. I guess the two people who know are Gonzaga and Low, which it was reported by a rivals person saying he didn't get one.

Low never is quoted as saying he didn't have an offer from Gonzaga. This is a statement by the author of the article and he may (or may not) have taken this from Low. These are the types of things I learned in college, sorting through conflicting information to come out with a likely scenario.

It's likely Low had offers from Utah, Hawaii, and Gonzaga. This was then listed in the recruiting databases of all major recruiting services. Finally, the rivals author (who was probably writing 8-10 articles a day, and interviewing 8-10 recruits a day) made an inaccurate statement about Low not having a Gonzaga offer. Not having a direct quote from Low on this point is key.

 

[CougEd]

Low never is quoted as saying he didn't have an offer from Gonzaga. This is a statement by the author of the article and he may (or may not) have taken this from Low. These are the types of things I learned in college, sorting through conflicting information to come out with a likely scenario.

It's likely Low had offers from Utah, Hawaii, and Gonzaga. This was then listed in the recruiting databases of all major recruiting services. Finally, the rivals author (who was probably writing 8-10 articles a day, and interviewing 8-10 recruits a day) made an inaccurate statement about Low not having a Gonzaga offer. Not having a direct quote from Low on this point is key.

Wow ... maybe it was a different player the writer got confused about . I hope his other info is accurate .

 

[SaveFerris]

Wow ... maybe it was a different player the writer got confused about . I hope his other info is accurate .

Under Few don't you have to visit to get an "offer" from GU? It's the semantics game. GU wouldn't want to appear to have lost a recruit (or 2 including Baynes) to the Ag school down south.

 

[CougEd]

Under Few don't you have to visit to get an "offer" from GU? It's the semantics game. GU wouldn't want to appear to have lost a recruit (or 2 including Baynes) to the Ag school down south.

I don’t know if Gonzaga would trip a kid without an offer . But are you saying Low would tell a rivals reporter that he didn’t have an offer by mistake or the rivals guy said that to protect Gonzaga ?

 

[etowncoug]

I don’t know if Gonzaga would trip a kid without an offer . But are you saying Low would tell a rivals reporter that he didn’t have an offer by mistake or the rivals guy said that to protect Gonzaga ?

Show me where LOW says he didn't get a Gonzaga offer. I'll wait.

 

[CougEd]

Show me where LOW says he didn't get a Gonzaga offer. I'll wait.

Show me where low says he got an offer. The reporter said low told him the only school he didn’t have an offer from was Gonzaga .

 

[etowncoug]

Show me where low says he got an offer. The reporter said low told him the only school he didn’t have an offer from was Gonzaga .

No he didn't. The author simply said Low had offers from everyone except Gonzaga. Zero reference is made to where the information was obtained. You can infer it was from Low, but the reporter quotes multiple people in the article and might have used other rumblings not cited to make his claim. Nothing about the way it's worded suggests the author is quoting Low.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Under Few don't you have to visit to get an "offer" from GU? It's the semantics game. GU wouldn't want to appear to have lost a recruit (or 2 including Baynes) to the Ag school down south.

Wah wah wah slow down a sec. Are you telling me that Gonzaga offered Baynes? I don't believe you.

 

[FnuLnu]

I have a relative born in the PNW living in the DEEP south - and she has the drawl, y'all. It happens.

Ruth moved to Clarkston?

 

[SaveFerris]

I don’t know if Gonzaga would trip a kid without an offer . But are you saying Low would tell a rivals reporter that he didn’t have an offer by mistake or the rivals guy said that to protect Gonzaga ?

From what I have heard the official "offer" comes during the trip. Hence the semantics. Low also just told brandx Tony was a primary reason he chose WSU and we have that quote.

Wah wah wah slow down a sec. Are you telling me that Gonzaga offered Baynes? I don't believe you.

From what I remember GU wanted him but again technically may not have offered.

 

[random soul]

I'm waiting for lost innocence to make an appearance here somewhere. This thread is a trainwreck

 

[YakiCoug]

Deflecting on what? There are just some questions that is all. If TB is the coach instead of Dick, and he had no history does Low come to WSU? He did have an offer from Utah, there is some disagreement whether he had one from Gonzaga.

Another stupid hypothEDical: "if TB is the coach instead of Dick ... ." I realize the TBI is an obstacle for you, but Dick and Tony were a package deal. Father and son were a pretty good tandem, and all the recruits knew Tony would take over. He was, afterall, the one on the road recruiting (and Johnson).
Perhaps you can use this same approach to help your dumbass brother get a job at Little DickED Baird Home Loans.

 

[CougEd]

Another stupid hypothEDical: "if TB is the coach instead of Dick ... ." I realize the TBI is an obstacle for you, but Dick and Tony were a package deal. Father and son were a pretty good tandem, and all the recruits knew Tony would take over. He was, afterall, the one on the road recruiting (and Johnson).
Perhaps you can use this same approach to help your dumbass brother get a job at Little DickED Baird Home Loans.

Wow ...getting yourself in a h(Bill Barr Redacted) over my posts I see. Sort of the point. We know Dick could have made a go of it without Tony, and it is highly suspect because of the depth of the program Tony could have made the same impact. While Tony had some good recruits he missed on several crucial classes when he was by himself. ,

 

[bogusto]

Wow ...getting yourself in a half Nelson over my posts I see. Sort of the point. We know Dick could have made a go of it without Tony, and it is highly suspect because of the depth of the program Tony could have made the same impact. While Tony had some good recruits he missed on several crucial classes when he was by himself. ,

Yeah, TB wouldn't of made a go of it in Pullman without his father. In light of subsequent events, this is the lamest attempt to denigrate a departed coach not only in WSU history, but possibly in NCAA history. There is no question the elder instilled in the boy all of his own wisdom and he has since 1-upped the old man by not only making a final four, but winning it. He is using the old man's defensive wizardy abd making it his own, embellishing the offensive sets to tweak it into being, this season, in the top 5 of off. efficiency, and recruiting to a heretofore afterthought of a program in the ACC against some of the stiffest competition in the country, but he wouldn't have made a go of it in Pullman. Well done Ed, an utterly complete new low for you in dissolute, disassembling drivel, a statement that is highly noteworthy because there is so much competition in that particular field.

 

[avabob1]

Nobody can really know about these things, but it looked to me like Dick was better equipped to do a rebuild simply because of his long experience. I think Tony was better equipped to take the team to the next level. Youth and being a former star player himself probably gave him more credibility with the players

People like to say Dick took the bullet for Tony, and to some extent that is true, but I am not sure Dick could have taken them to the level Tony did.

 

[7ICoug]

Certainly agree with this and as you and I both sat quite nearby to Dick and his wife the anguish that we saw this year when he attended a Virginia game was quite apparent even that long ago.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Nobody can really know about these things, but it looked to me like Dick was better equipped to do a rebuild simply because of his long experience. I think Tony was better equipped to take the team to the next level. Youth and being a former star player himself probably gave him more credibility with the players

People like to say Dick took the bullet for Tony, and to some extent that is true, but I am not sure Dick could have taken them to the level Tony did.

Really good assessment, Bob. I will always consider Dick and Tony as a package that effectively lifted WSU out of the deep morass created by Paul Graham and upwards to the NCAA tournament.

Glad Cougar

 

[CougEd]

No he didn't. The author simply said Low had offers from everyone except Gonzaga. Zero reference is made to where the information was obtained. You can infer it was from Low, but the reporter quotes multiple people in the article and might have used other rumblings not cited to make his claim. Nothing about the way it's worded suggests the author is quoting Low.

I guess I have a different understanding when the writer wrote the following "for the talented Islander and Low claimed offers from all except the Zags." It sure sounds like it was Low who claimed he had offers from the three other schools and that it was Low who told him Gonzaga did not offer.

 

[CougEd]

Nobody can really know about these things, but it looked to me like Dick was better equipped to do a rebuild simply because of his long experience. I think Tony was better equipped to take the team to the next level. Youth and being a former star player himself probably gave him more credibility with the players

People like to say Dick took the bullet for Tony, and to some extent that is true, but I am not sure Dick could have taken them to the level Tony did.

Why couldn't he? Watching dick and how amped up he got I get why he stayed at lower level schools most of his career. Even when he isn't coaching he is, and the game eats at him.

But I would think Dick and how good he was (I consider him a top ten coach) would have had that success because he had a final four team at Wisconsin.