When Dick left he said something to the affect that he thought it was time the players heard a different voice with that voice specifically being Tony's. That first big class came to WSU knowing and expecting at some point Tony would become their coach. That was a component of their recruitment.
Yes Virginia ...........
- Thread starter kougkurt
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Holy Bogusto Batman....how are you confusing the issue and the two schools? No one said Tony didn't have talent or wisdom. But if it was the case of talent and wisdom Hal Mumme would have been successful at every stop.
WSU in light of where the program was at after Paul Graham got terminate needed a name. Tony Bennett didn't have that cred, so as brilliant as he may be, they didn't need brilliance, they needed someone who had name recognition to get his system in, and have enough cred to make it through the 82 to what drubbing against Oklahoma State. Or to make it through all the other obstacles.
What WSU needed at the time wasn't a brilliant x and o coach, but someone who knew how to build a program, had experience building programs, and had the street cred where people knew who he was and parents of the type of kid he was recruiting would feel confident in sending their kid our way.
I saw how Tony recruited with his dad and how he recruited once his dad left. He had two classes with giant holes, holes that hurt the process moving forward. Heck , wasn't Tony 8-10 with Rochestie, Baynes, Casto, Capers, Thompson Koprivaca etc?
Tony just won a national championship. That alone shows he is a very good coach. Sorry if you feel like it minimizes him if I say at a very tough gig at 33 that it was his dad that laid the plan, and it was his fathers name that got us the players to even look at us. And the shape the program was in there could be very few mistakes that were made at that critical juncture.
Yes, Dick set him up in a no fail plan that doesn't happen often in NCAA bball. Dick is the one who took the bullet and the losses, and had the cred to do so. A young coach doesn't.
And here is the rub. WSU did something most schools did not or would not. They had a plan for succession, and it allowed Tony to be successful, and he rewarded WSU with an NCAA birth and subsequently parlayed a bogus offer into more money. And what did he do his second year, the same thing. Like I said if I had one wish to do it over for the health of the program that he did have a viable offer and left after his first season. That way the next coach takes over a loaded program with senior experience and builds upon that. It would have allowed an error or two to recover from while having an NCAA trip in their back pocket.
Saying I don't think Tony because of his age and inexperience would have been successful rebuilding the program after Graham is not a slight, and not sure why you take it as such. There are jobs that fit some better than others, whether it is personality, experience, or timing.
Don James was considered one of the most successful coaches in the country, and I am not sure he would have had even Jim Walden's level of success in Pullman. Not every situation is right for every coach.
It took Kelvin 7 years with the program to finally have a winning season.. That meant years and years on the recruiting trail before he hit on enough players to be successful.
I'm not sure who you meant but Kelvin was only at WSU for 7 years. First winning season was year 4.
Kelvin was at WSU from 85 to 94. He was on the road as an assistant 85-86-87, and then as a head coach. He was there as an assistant for three losing seasons, and then another three as a head coach. It took 7 years mining the landscape for players to help win at WSU.
Guess you did mean it although I believe Sampson was only an assistant for 2 years.
I attribute records to the head coach rather than assistants so that was the confusing part.
Honestly it is more about acquisition of talent than even winning. It took a long time to figure out the equation of how to get talent to be competitive.
Just an opinion. I watched quite a few Dick Bennett practices, and he was a master at playing underdog and putting a chip on kids shoulders. I think that is more effective for getting an under talented or under experienced team to over achieve. Tony seemed more inclined to teach kids a little swagger ( just a little ). Definitely kept kids cool under pressure.
It was staff. Sampson was recruiting to a sinking ship as an assistant for 2 years and his first 2 (or 3?) as head coach he was required to have Harshman and Motta as his assistants. They were worse than Kent's initial staff in terms of recruiting.
Despite having teams that played hard....
Kelvin Sampson's end game coaching at WSU was beyond awful and because of that he never beat any teams that were good.
Kelvin finished with the same number of wins over Top 25 teams as Ernie Kent & Len Stevens did at WSU - two.
There was a reason why those two were required to be in his staff...
And if you are a brilliant coach shouldn't you lift even bad recruiting?
Remember LaVar Ball, Juan Thomas, Bubba Smith, Herb Delaney, Winston Bennett? Wooden couldn't have lifted that talent in the Pac 10.
It wasn't Harshman or Motta that recruited Bennie Seltzer. Seltzer was the turning point and he was a Sampson recruit.
So Sampson didn't recruit any of those players? Just went to practice? I know that Harsh and Motta weren't top line recruiters, that wasn't why they were hired.
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Bad recruiting is on the head coach at WSU. Sampson wasn't responsible for the recruiting the last 2 years under Stevens.
Your question was "And if you are a brilliant coach shouldn't you lift even bad recruiting?". My answer was nobody was lifting that recruiting.
Harshman and Motta were hired because of their last names and Sampson didn't have a network to draw from at 30-whatever. Doesn't change the fact that they weren't capable of helping to lift WSU.
Regarding Tony - I believe that he was only on Dad's staff for Dick's final year at Wisconsin (see below), then stayed around for 3(?) years under Bo Ryan before Dad and WSU called. So the 3 years as a WSU assistant were really what made him good and ready to become a head coach.
Per Tony: “I loved playing, and then I saw my dad’s team [Wisconsin] go to the Final Four,” Bennett said. “I was the volunteer manager, and I got into it. I love the young men. I love the game, but it’s not the be-all and end-all.”
Per Tony: “I loved playing, and then I saw my dad’s team [Wisconsin] go to the Final Four,” Bennett said. “I was the volunteer manager, and I got into it. I love the young men. I love the game, but it’s not the be-all and end-all.”
He didn't even bring in a good project? Not sure why he gets a pass on his inability to have at least a couple of finds.
As to Harsh and Motta they weren't brought on because of their name. While it didn't hurt, there was a bigger reason they were on the staff.
I thought it was common knowledge Stevens didn't recruit well to WSU and I'm not giving him a pass for it.
Kelvin brought in good talent. Seltzer, the 4 Texas JCs, Corkrum, Fontaine, Hendrickson, Daniels. I thought that was also common knowledge.
Yeah eventually he did, but why non of these kids prior to that? Even Malik Roberson found a nugget.
Yeah I can. If Tony Bennett can get kids as an assistant not sure why Sampson couldn’t .
It took him a long while to figure out who he could get and how to get them. Most people don't get a 4th season if they are 1-17 in conference their 3rd. Fortunately Livengood was patient.
Ed, you've gone to great lengths to criticize the recruiting done by T. Bennett and Sampson. But I've never read anything from you regarding Ken Bone's recruiting. Would you say it was better or worse than Tony's while Tony was a head coach. Feel free to explain your answer. Also, did you think he left a good enough roster for Ernie to succeed? Just curious.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
Here's Erictile D's answer: "Is Bone still the coach?"
Of course, neither is Tony Bennett, yet he goes all ed nauseam over "Witherill, Brown, and Harthun" - even though his TBI has blocked out the fact Harthun was an ESPN top 100 player his senior year in high school, a year in which his team won the 6A title in Oregon.
It's not too hard to imagine a little Erictile D getting the snot knocked out of him after spouting to others, "I know you are, but what am I?"
He's found the perfect place to mouth off but avoid getting the sh!t kicked out of him.
A ton and isnt that why he was fired ? Not coddling Thames and handing him the pg position and not playing him 30 minutes a game in the preseason was a mistake in hindsight as well.
It is just a shame whoever came after tony didnt have the same two ncaa appearances to recruit from. But that is life .
Btw do you have a point half-nelson . Is that dee or McD? Hmmm
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You know where I am .. clearly . Even my home address. The best you came up with is just wait and see what happens . I am still here. And you know exactly where to find me.
It sucked, no he didn’t leave enough players for Kent to be successful and he was fired for it .
WTF? Who was fired for it? Bone, because he leave enough good players? Or Kent, because after 5 years we are as bad or worse than when he came?
"Didn't leave enough players for (the next coach) to be successful". After 5 years. C'mon. That is just a ridiculous statement. For any sport. Unless you fire the new coach after 1 or 2 years.
? He was fired for not recruiting well enough. He meaning bone . If he recruited well enough he would have won .
Que was never that good - despite what his AAU coach from BrandX imiss3s promised.
He "reclassed" (stayed extra year in school by going to a "Prep" school in AZ), redshirted at WSU so was close to 2 years older than his class year.
His prep school Westwind closed in 2015 got demolished this year.
But! But ... TB had no street "cred" after those tourney trips. He was doomed to recruiting only Witherills and Browns for all time!
Ah, the paranoia runs deep. You might recall - your TBI permitting - that it was you who long ago voluntarily disclosed where you live (Edmonds). And I think you know how much stalking you have done over the years.
Read again. I have never mentioned the street I live on . Nor a fellow employee who recently left the company that you mentioned yesterday . Btw the person you mentioned is a guy .
Hard to stalk the fake name of joe banke. Your mistake was mentioning my daughters name on the board and that prompted the professionals to get involved .
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Didn't know your daughter's name. And a typo in mea culpa hardly warranted your filing a false report with the "professionals." Should I let others here know what you've been up to? I think most here would be stunned.
Please do let others “know what I have been up to “ cause I would be just as curious.
Yes yaki YOU are a victim. You know how I found out about you posting my daughters name on the board and also my relationship status ?. People on this board texted me to get to the board. Yes I made a copy of your initial post before you changed it. Saying it was a typo is like saying you putting my street name in a post or the name of now two coworkers was a was a typo. Why would you post the name of a former coworker of mine who didn’t go to WSU, doesn’t watch cougar athletics or even know this board exists? Please just make up a bs excuse it will at least give you some cover. As one of the “professionals” said there is a reason you do this stuff.
See if it was just as innocent typo there would be no concern. But the people who texted me to go to the board when you wrote your post know by your history exactly what you were doing.
Several weeks even after posting my daughters name on the board I was up front and mentioned now would be a good time for a truce. Just ignore my posts . That is before I let you know I have all the information now. You couldn’t contain yourself because you hide behind your fake name and you didn’t know I knew the truth.
But feel free to tell people on the board “what I have been up to” . Let me give you a hint, my guess is no one cares as they really don’t care what you have been up to. But do pass along this nugget to the people you want to tell. There was a time when I was going to leave the board more do to outside stuff but you convinced me to retool my schedule and to stay . And your threats to get me banned ? By your behavior I can’t be banned and may I make the same suggestion... stay in your lane and this board will be a better place I guarantee it .
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