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You are stuck on 706….would you fire a coach for giving up 446

CougEd

CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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Yards on the ground in one game and Cougs lose 24-17?

Congrats you just fired Doba just to fire someone .

Because you don’t like the structure of the defense uoi don’t fire coaches over one game or over a quarter of a season .

Take a peek at Oregon … their coach literally cost them a game against osu and uw because he wouldn’t kick fgs .

You would fire every cosch in the conference . You think if Penix doesn’t come back we give up 706 next year ?
 
The fire somebody management technique is just a prayer that terrorizing your subordinates will motivate them figure out what you can't and fix the problem. At WSU, we don't have the luxury of firing coaches to appease our emotional disorders. We fire them when they've demonstrated they won't be able to get the job done. If a HC has already lost faith in the guys he hired a year ago, I'd say the issue is with him.
 
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etowncoug said:
The fire somebody management technique is just a prayer that terrorizing your subordinates will motivate them figure out what you can't and fix the problem. At WSU, we don't have the luxury of firing coaches to appease our emotional disorders. We fire them when they've demonstrated they won't be able to get the job done. If a HC has already lost faith in the guys he hired a year ago, I'd say the issue is with him.
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What is 702 yard given up demonstrating?
 
Chatter after tough losses, particularly apple cups, is always dark on here; but allow me to spit some uncomfortable facts.

UW has an excellent offense this season. USC is very fortunate that they're not facing them in the P12 championship. Penix is either best or 2nd best QB in the league, and their offensive line is outstanding. Odunze is the best or 2nd best WR in the league, and their supporting cast is also strong. Really tough matchup for us.

Not much to say other than they're better than us. USC, Oregon, Utah, UW, UCLA, and Oregon State are the indisputable top-6 in our conference. We are the 7th best team, just a couple of clicks behind them. We have a sophomore QB and a lot of returning pieces on offense. Shake off last nights game. The better team won, but we played a spirited game.
 
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Have you watched P12 football this season, or the past 10 seasons? Last nights game went the way a lot of our league games go.

WSU vs. Oregon
Oregon vs. UW
Oregon vs. Oregon State
ASU vs. UW
UCLA vs. UW
USC vs. Cal
USC vs. Arizona

All of these games had over 60 combined points and massive yardage numbers, and they all involved the top teams in our league.
 
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BiggsCoug said:
Nope. Answer the f’ing question with an answer or fuc$ off.
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Cmon that is a pat answer I hear on the board and at home.

What it demonstrates is there are match up problems. also it demonstrates we need help at safety and nickle, and that we need an inside rush and better play from our DE's.

And it means a good coach doesn't make hasty decisions. They look at the body of the work.

Would I like it better of Banker was still on the staff? Yep. But he chose not to.
 
CougEd said:
Cmon that is a pat answer I hear on the board and at home.

What it demonstrates is there are match up problems. also it demonstrates we need help at safety and nickle, and that we need an inside rush and better play from our DE's.

And it means a good coach doesn't make hasty decisions. They look at the body of the work.

Would I like it better of Banker was still on the staff? Yep. But he chose not to.
Click to expand...

If you are getting beat 21-14, you’re competitive. If you are getting beat 35-14, maybe a few mistakes here and there, maybe a big play, still in it.

As the score grows and the yards pile up, more and more issues become apparent.

When you give up 702 yards and 51 points, it isnt just talent. It’s scheme, it’s play calling, it’s injuries, it’s depth, it’s literally everything.

The difference between 450 yards and 702 yards is the sheer volume of things going wrong for the 702 yards. A few fixes here and there, maybe a kid that was hurt and comes back helps and that 450 could be 400 or maybe less. Much more competitive.

702 yards? Holy shit. Even if they had all their starters, how many yards better are they? Competitiveness is out of reach. It’s still a beating.

Giving up 702 yards is being out coached handily. At WSU, you are rarely going to have the talent to out talent teams and cover up bad scheme, bad coaching and bad play calling. WSU coaches have to be good at ~ coaching/scheme/play calling. There is just no margin for error.

They have 2 All League caliber DEs. They have zero pass rush and cant stop the run.

They have a LB up for a national award. They have zero pass rush and cant stop the run.

Half of their defensive front is All League or better. So what’s the issue?

The 702 yards given up speaks to the level of incompetence of the defensive staff. The scheme is bad, the play calls are bad, they are overwhelmed. 450 yards vs 702 yards is nowhere near the same thing.

At some point a change is gonna be made. The longer these guys stay at WSU, it isnt gonna get better. Adding more talent to bad coaches isnt gonna help. They’re still gonna have awful games. Will the change be this year? Prob not. But it’s coming. Being this bad isnt sustainable. You can only be proven a fraud so many times before the HC decides he isnt gonna lose his 7 figure paycheck over you.
 
etowncoug said:
The fire somebody management technique is just a prayer that terrorizing your subordinates will motivate them figure out what you can't and fix the problem. At WSU, we don't have the luxury of firing coaches to appease our emotional disorders. We fire them when they've demonstrated they won't be able to get the job done. If a HC has already lost faith in the guys he hired a year ago, I'd say the issue is with him.
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This. There’s a short list of programs in the country that would fire Dickert or force him to fire his OC/DC at this point in his tenure with these results. 3 or 4 maybe. All 3 or 4 of them can pay the buyouts with couch cushion change. We aren’t on that list. Stop it.
 
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BiggsCoug said:
If you are getting beat 21-14, you’re competitive. If you are getting beat 35-14, maybe a few mistakes here and there, maybe a big play, still in it.

As the score grows and the yards pile up, more and more issues become apparent.

When you give up 702 yards and 51 points, it isnt just talent. It’s scheme, it’s play calling, it’s injuries, it’s depth, it’s literally everything.

The difference between 450 yards and 702 yards is the sheer volume of things going wrong for the 702 yards. A few fixes here and there, maybe a kid that was hurt and comes back helps and that 450 could be 400 or maybe less. Much more competitive.

702 yards? Holy shit. Even if they had all their starters, how many yards better are they? Competitiveness is out of reach. It’s still a beating.

Giving up 702 yards is being out coached handily. At WSU, you are rarely going to have the talent to out talent teams and cover up bad scheme, bad coaching and bad play calling. WSU coaches have to be good at ~ coaching/scheme/play calling. There is just no margin for error.

They have 2 All League caliber DEs. They have zero pass rush and cant stop the run.

They have a LB up for a national award. They have zero pass rush and cant stop the run.

Half of their defensive front is All League or better. So what’s the issue?

The 702 yards given up speaks to the level of incompetence of the defensive staff. The scheme is bad, the play calls are bad, they are overwhelmed. 450 yards vs 702 yards is nowhere near the same thing.

At some point a change is gonna be made. The longer these guys stay at WSU, it isnt gonna get better. Adding more talent to bad coaches isnt gonna help. They’re still gonna have awful games. Will the change be this year? Prob not. But it’s coming. Being this bad isnt sustainable. You can only be proven a fraud so many times before the HC decides he isnt gonna lose his 7 figure paycheck over you.
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What was the score going into the 4th quarter. We were a right hand vs left hand of a two point conversion and a tie game.

If our offense keeps their offense off the field then I guarantee it isn't 702. And our oline wows reared their ugly head again in the 3rd and 4th quarter. We couldn't run block a three man line.
 
CougEd said:
What was the score going into the 4th quarter. We were a right hand vs left hand of a two point conversion and a tie game.

If our offense keeps their offense off the field then I guarantee it isn't 702. And our oline wows reared their ugly head again in the 3rd and 4th quarter. We couldn't run block a three man line.
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But it happened. 702 is just ugly man. Even if the score was tied, you can’t ignore it. It’s a problem.

The OL needs help from the play caller. Sadly, he doesn’t know how to help them. Morris is still a young coach. He has a lot to learn. Right now, he doesn’t know how to help his OL.

Draw, lead draw, lead qb draw and qb draw should all be staples of the air raid run game. We saw none of them. That would help take heat off the pass rush. Running zone read and actually doing it, takes heat off the run game. Wanna help your OL that can’t drive block? Add tight ends. Create more angles for your OL to make down blocks. Out number them at the line of scrimmage and create double teams. Jesus I could go on and on. But Morris doesn’t know what to do. Or, maybe the talent is just that bad? Then why didn’t they give a truck and cash to OL to get them to come???
 
BiggsCoug said:
But it happened. 702 is just ugly man. Even if the score was tied, you can’t ignore it. It’s a problem.

The OL needs help from the play caller. Sadly, he doesn’t know how to help them. Morris is still a young coach. He has a lot to learn. Right now, he doesn’t know how to help his OL.

Draw, lead draw, lead qb draw and qb draw should all be staples of the air raid run game. We saw none of them. That would help take heat off the pass rush. Running zone read and actually doing it, takes heat off the run game. Wanna help your OL that can’t drive block? Add tight ends. Create more angles for your OL to make down blocks. Out number them at the line of scrimmage and create double teams. Jesus I could go on and on. But Morris doesn’t know what to do. Or, maybe the talent is just that bad? Then why didn’t they give a truck and cash to OL to get them to come???
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2000 apple cup we lose 51-3. Who should have been fired ?
 
CougEd said:
2000 apple cup we lose 51-3. Who should have been fired ?
Click to expand...

You. For asking more stupid f’ing questions.

Did the defense give up 702 yards?
Did the DC have any equity built up?
Did the HC have any equity built up?
Have either of them had more than a cup of coffee at the P5 level?

Fu$k off with your moronic questions trying to compare this year to years past. As Leach would say “that was last f’ing year!”

If you think it’s ok for WSU to give up 702 f’i g yards and get their doors blown off, what is the least you are willing to accept?

Tell me, what has to f’ing happen on the field that is so bad that you would say fire the staff or the coordinator right now?
 
At halftime I said the first play from scrimmage for UW in the 2nd half would be a TD. Not exactly going out on a limb. I mean, of course they were going long.
 
BiggsCoug said:
You. For asking more stupid f’ing questions.

Did the defense give up 702 yards?
Did the DC have any equity built up?
Did the HC have any equity built up?
Have either of them had more than a cup of coffee at the P5 level?

Fu$k off with your moronic questions trying to compare this year to years past. As Leach would say “that was last f’ing year!”

If you think it’s ok for WSU to give up 702 f’i g yards and get their doors blown off, what is the least you are willing to accept?

Tell me, what has to f’ing happen on the field that is so bad that you would say fire the staff or the coordinator right now?
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Leading the league in scoring defense builds up equity.

If wsu played the apple cup like uw did last year I would tell people they are on a short leash . You are getting way too wrapped up in the number . The game was a two inches from being tied with 9 minutes left in the game .
 
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CougEd said:
Leading the league in scoring defense builds up equity.

If wsu played the apple cup like uw did last year I would tell people they are on a short leash . You are getting way too wrapped up in the number . The game was a two inches from being tied with 9 minutes left in the game .
Click to expand...

Giving up 702 yards and losing 5 league games removes any league leading defensive stats. Total fraud of a way to build up equity while getting a woodshed beating n your rivalry game and losing to 5 of 6 teams ahead of your 7th place finish. Would have been all 6 if UCLA were on the schedule. Miss me with that horse shit stat.

You are getting too wrapped up in 9 mins left to play and what could have been. Enough horse shit hypothetical scenarios Ed. The outcome was a beating and embarrassment. You are whitewashing the 702 yards with your bullshit.

And again, what has to happen on the field for you to believe a change has to be made immediately????

As John McEnroe would say “answer the question jerk!”
 
BiggsCoug said:
Giving up 702 yards and losing 5 league games removes any league leading defensive stats. Total fraud of a way to build up equity while getting a woodshed beating n your rivalry game and losing to 5 of 6 teams ahead of your 7th place finish. Would have been all 6 if UCLA were on the schedule. Miss me with that horse shit stat.

You are getting too wrapped up in 9 mins left to play and what could have been. Enough horse shit hypothetical scenarios Ed. The outcome was a beating and embarrassment. You are whitewashing the 702 yards with your bullshit.

And again, what has to happen on the field for you to believe a change has to be made immediately????

As John McEnroe would say “answer the question jerk!”
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I have . No firing anyone . I let them recruit Judge dobas defense and won loss record in 94. What you are saying is his numbers were fraud because we played uclas third string qb, lost to osu … who in 94 scared you . I can do this all night long using your standards
 
702 yards was bad, really bad. 624 yards given up vs. Oregon was bad, really bad. Outside of those two games, the team defense was better than average at 378 yards per game. Add those bad games and its 394 yards per game, which is better than USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado.....and only 8 yards worse than UO. I'm not ready to have someone fired because of two really bad defensive games out of 11.

Glad Cougar
 
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CougEd said:
I have . No firing anyone . I let them recruit Judge dobas defense and won loss record in 94. What you are saying is his numbers were fraud because we played uclas third string qb, lost to osu … who in 94 scared you . I can do this all night long using your standards
Click to expand...

Enough of the ridiculous comparisons from 30 years ago. F’ing stupid.
 
Glad Cougar said:
702 yards was bad, really bad. 624 yards given up vs. Oregon was bad, really bad. Outside of those two games, the team defense was better than average at 378 yards per game. Add those bad games and its 394 yards per game, which is better than USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado.....and only 8 yards worse than UO. I'm not ready to have someone fired because of two really bad defensive games out of 11.

Glad Cougar
Click to expand...

How many then?
 
BiggsCoug said:
But it happened. 702 is just ugly man. Even if the score was tied, you can’t ignore it. It’s a problem.

The OL needs help from the play caller. Sadly, he doesn’t know how to help them. Morris is still a young coach. He has a lot to learn. Right now, he doesn’t know how to help his OL.

Draw, lead draw, lead qb draw and qb draw should all be staples of the air raid run game. We saw none of them. That would help take heat off the pass rush. Running zone read and actually doing it, takes heat off the run game. Wanna help your OL that can’t drive block? Add tight ends. Create more angles for your OL to make down blocks. Out number them at the line of scrimmage and create double teams. Jesus I could go on and on. But Morris doesn’t know what to do. Or, maybe the talent is just that bad? Then why didn’t they give a truck and cash to OL to get them to come???
Click to expand...
Serious NIL deals for some of the best olinemen available. Makes good sense.
 
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BiggsCoug said:
Giving up 702 yards and losing 5 league games removes any league leading defensive stats. Total fraud of a way to build up equity while getting a woodshed beating n your rivalry game and losing to 5 of 6 teams ahead of your 7th place finish. Would have been all 6 if UCLA were on the schedule. Miss me with that horse shit stat.

You are getting too wrapped up in 9 mins left to play and what could have been. Enough horse shit hypothetical scenarios Ed. The outcome was a beating and embarrassment. You are whitewashing the 702 yards with your bullshit.

And again, what has to happen on the field for you to believe a change has to be made immediately????

As John McEnroe would say “answer the question jerk!”
Click to expand...
I miss John McEnroe. The only reason to watch tennis.
 
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longtimecoug said:
price
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Yep fire a guy who built a team that competed for the rose bowl the next three years . And how maybe rose bowls had wsu been to in your life time prior to 1997? I’ll answer that one … none . But makes sense to me
 
froropmkr72 said:
Serious NIL deals for some of the best olinemen available. Makes good sense.
Click to expand...
We have a lot of youth on our offensive line, so charting their development throughout the offseason is going to be a significant evaluation point for this coaching staff. Strength & conditioning, training table, etc. UW had 3 RS Seniors on their line, and it showed in their performance this year.
 
CougEd said:
Yep fire a guy who built a team that competed for the rose bowl the next three years . And how maybe rose bowls had wsu been to in your life time prior to 1997? I’ll answer that one … none . But makes sense to me
Click to expand...

Price had equity for 1 Rose Bowl. Dickert does not have the same level of equity.

And this is apples to oranges. Different times. Different scenarios.

And you are using the benefit of the past to make your point. If Price went on to have no more Rose Bowls and lost even more games, would you be using this as your point? No.

If half of your defensive front will be in NFL camps and you can’t stop the run and can’t rush the passer, who do you need to have to be successful?
 
BiggsCoug said:
Price had equity for 1 Rose Bowl. Dickert does not have the same level of equity.
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Price didn't have much equity to start his WSU career. He lost his last 5 games of 1989. We lost 6 of our last 7 and finished 3-8 in 1990. We lost 44-3, 49-14, and 56-21 in the Apple Cup to close out 1991 at 4-7. Had it not snowed during the 1992 Apple Cup, we likely would have lost to Napolean Kaufman and UW. The week prior to Apple Cup 1991, we lost 40-3 at Stanford.

What Mike Price had in his favor was an incredible likeability factor with the players, within the program, and throughout the P10 conference. I don't believe in comparing eras from yesteryear, but I am seeing some similar likeability traits with Dickert. The team plays hard for him and he's been able to recruit well at the QB position.

Let's be clear on something. There are a lot of aspects to program building that need to be taken into consideration, but recruiting the QB position is the single most important thing a coach can do to ensure success. Thus far, I'm pleased with what I'm seeing in that regard.
 
CougEd said:
Leading the league in scoring defense builds up equity.

If wsu played the apple cup like uw did last year I would tell people they are on a short leash . You are getting way too wrapped up in the number . The game was a two inches from being tied with 9 minutes left in the game .
Click to expand...
Yes, it was almost tied, definitely SHOULD have been tied, but.......There has been a disturbing trend the past 2-3 years for WSU to go flat in the second half, and especially in the 4th quarter. It happened again Saturday, and there needs to be some extremely harsh examination as to why that is. Then take steps to fix it.
 
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All of this chatter is fine and dandy....but there's been no mention of the fact that we were missing Armani Marsh for the game.....and Jordan Lee as well. Our defense was terrible, but it's a fact of life that WSU is typically thin at one or two positions in any given year. Missing those two guys was big. Injuries are a part of football, but WSU has always been a program that is a couple injuries away from disaster.

1989 was derailed by the injury to Stallworth. 1993 was ruined by the injury to Pattinson. 2006 fell apart when we had numerous injuries in our game against UCLA. We were 6-3 and in the Top 25 and lost to three mediocre teams because our defense was jacked up. UW was the better team last night and that's just it. No deep analysis of coaching skills or anything else.
 
Stretch 74 said:
Yes, it was almost tied, definitely SHOULD have been tied, but.......There has been a disturbing trend the past 2-3 years for WSU to go flat in the second half, and especially in the 4th quarter. It happened again Saturday, and there needs to be some extremely harsh examination as to why that is. Then take steps to fix it.
Click to expand...
The problem you don't fix overnight or in one recruiting cycle. It is the oline.
 
BiggsCoug said:
Price had equity for 1 Rose Bowl. Dickert does not have the same level of equity.

And this is apples to oranges. Different times. Different scenarios.

And you are using the benefit of the past to make your point. If Price went on to have no more Rose Bowls and lost even more games, would you be using this as your point? No.

If half of your defensive front will be in NFL camps and you can’t stop the run and can’t rush the passer, who do you need to have to be successful?
Click to expand...
Price didn't have "equity" in 1989-1991 . So he gets fired, you don't have Doba, he was a good DC except when he gave up 446 on the ground to Oregon.

You don't have Mike Zimmer who was good enough to coach under Parcels.

Joe Tiller who was horrible at WSU was successful as HC at Wyoming and Purdue.

I get you don't think Dickert has it. And he doesn't run a defense you think will be successful. I also get you cherry pick your data. I could do that all day long. 1994 was a mirage because there were 6 teams that sucked. And who was the Arizona QB in 94? Arizona was the number two or three team in the conference. Who was the USC QB ...rob Johnson?

ASU had a soph qb in Plummer who completed 52% of his passes.

Dickert changed his staff after the bowl game. This is a new offense for everyone.

We will see if they go bowling next year....
 
CougEd said:
Price didn't have "equity" in 1989-1991 . So he gets fired, you don't have Doba, he was a good DC except when he gave up 446 on the ground to Oregon.

You don't have Mike Zimmer who was good enough to coach under Parcels.

Joe Tiller who was horrible at WSU was successful as HC at Wyoming and Purdue.

I get you don't think Dickert has it. And he doesn't run a defense you think will be successful. I also get you cherry pick your data. I could do that all day long. 1994 was a mirage because there were 6 teams that sucked. And who was the Arizona QB in 94? Arizona was the number two or three team in the conference. Who was the USC QB ...rob Johnson?

ASU had a soph qb in Plummer who completed 52% of his passes.

Dickert changed his staff after the bowl game. This is a new offense for everyone.

We will see if they go bowling next year....
Click to expand...

Enough horse shit. Your bullshit scenario was after the Rose Bowl. Now, you move the goal posts to redirect away from being wrong/dumb and add more asinine scenarios. F’ing stop.
 
BiggsCoug said:
Enough horse shit. Your bullshit scenario was after the Rose Bowl. Now, you move the goal posts to redirect away from being wrong/dumb and add more asinine scenarios. F’ing stop.
Click to expand...
Good grief. I even gave you a better comparison. Price early on. You are the one who needs to stop because the defense played bad in the Apple Cup.

You want accountability...look at our fans. Lowest budget in the league. Don't have the same practice facility nor 5 D1 kids in a 100 mile radius. Smallest Pac 12 stadium and we are hanging on by our fingertips to stay in the Pac 10.

We had two LA schools cause they wanted a bigger piece of the pie and wanted to stop supplementing (socialism) WSU.

We were able to hire Leach cause of Pac 12 money. Other schools go to their donors.

Now we are faced with NIL and we have one player who got NIL money.

So we vastly outperformed our contribution and attendance.
 
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