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Great… So glad this is in our rear view mirror

The clock management at the end of that MSU game made pee wee coaches roll their eyes.

Lest we not forget how Chris Ball had his LBs and DBs 40 yards back from the LOS when Montana got the ball back and needed only to get a FG for the win. In one of his few moments of competence, Wulff called a timeout to correct what could have been a major gaffe. There was a collective WTF in the stadium just before that. What a goof for a DC.
 
Well the upper end talent says different, doesn't it? ASk Walk what defensive line he would rather have. 08/09 or Cooper, Pole, Laurenzi, Paulo. Ask Mike Price or Leach whic QB's he owuld rather have, Tuel, Halliday, Clements, and Apadoca or Rogers, Lopina, Jt Levy and Morgan. Oline of Jacobson, Guerra, Fullington, Ecklund, BOsch, Forbes, Rodgers or Lesuma, Hannam, Guerra , Alfread, Ayers, Frietag. I am not even sure I would take 09 Wr's over 2012. I know who left better kickers in the stable. DB's? Not sure anyone matches what Buchanon brought to the table. So I am wondering how having kids make practice squads and getting drafted is that hard to grasp over players like Matt E and the like?
The 2008 group had more PLAYERS. The 2011 group was DEVELOPED far, far, better. Half those names you list as "inherited" by Leach took zero snaps for Wulff, and you gave Leach Guerra, who wasn't there then.

And it's really distressing that you consider that collection of names "upper end talent".
 
The 2008 group had more PLAYERS. The 2011 group was DEVELOPED far, far, better. Half those names you list as "inherited" by Leach took zero snaps for Wulff, and you gave Leach Guerra, who wasn't there then.

And it's really distressing that you consider that collection of names "upper end talent".

Desperate revisionism raises its ugly head once again. It's manic and compulsive behavior at its finest.
Of the 48 players Wulff signed in '08 and '09, only 22 of them were still on the roster in 2011. To be fair, I believe about seven signed were JC transfers, so I guess you could say 22 of 41 were still on the roster but how many were impact players (yes, I used the word "impact" regarding a program that lost 40 of 49 games over four years)?
 
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Do you see me nitpicking Leach on BS stuff? There is nothing to defend. He gets his roll over contract. He gets to 2016 to field his team.

But why is it so ardent? Cause we built crap after 3 ten win seasons. We flushed that down the toilet that handed the turd off. If Leach took over in 2008 and had similar luck with injuries, had no QB, and you pissed and moaned at everything he did I would make the EXACT same arguments. I knew we were screwed as early as 2004 when Doba made two what seemed minor changes but it really affected recruiting. And our recruiting off those golden years was absolutely horrible. Paul Wulff with Big Sky players got as many or more players drafted than Doba and he was recruiting off 30 wins in three years. And in 2007 it was very clear what we were going to look like in 2008 regardless who was the coach. When Brink played bad, we gave up 53 and 52 to OSU and Oregon, and one guy had a fullback playing QB. I could envision scores in the 50's and 60's with inexperience at QB and the way teams were running the no huddle and one DT with experience. We gave up 48 to Arizona, 47 to USC. It was easy to see how this team would fair without Brink killing time off the clock between the 20's.

So Leach gets two years. He will be given 5 years to rebuild the program. If it isn't done by 2016, he would be on the hot seat for 2017. What is to defend? Anyone making claims he played Halliday when he wasn't feeling well? Anyone pissing and moaning other than in a rebuttal about missing out on two corners in 2012? Did I come on the board in 2012 and piss and moan about the CU game? Did I do it after the CSU game? Nope. Did I ask for Breske to be fired? Nope. Russell? Nope. Did I piss and moan that it wasn't soon enough? Nope. So what is there to defend?

Depends on what you call BS stuff. You had McGuire on the hotseat before he coached a game. You periodically bitch about th 2012 Colorado game. Have you gone a week without posting how terrible the 2014 season was?
 
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Well, guess what, that is who their AD selected. Those players are the problem. They are no different save the public letter than M Wilson. That would be like players rejecting Breske because he coached at Montana. Or McGuire because he never coached the oline before.

So these players you speak of knew better than Moos/Sterk, and whoever else made that decision? Really? Because the know all FCS coaches suck, right? If that is the mentality, which I believe was the case, that is a flaw in their character.

And while you might think that is a large number, there were only three players eligible from the 2004 class, 6 from 2005, 6 from 2006. Everyone else never made it that far.

The coach that went 9-40 with five shutouts over that time certainly could not have been the problem. No way. Not possible.
 
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Well the upper end talent says different, doesn't it? ASk Walk what defensive line he would rather have. 08/09 or Cooper, Pole, Laurenzi, Paulo. Ask Mike Price or Leach whic QB's he owuld rather have, Tuel, Halliday, Clements, and Apadoca or Rogers, Lopina, Jt Levy and Morgan. Oline of Jacobson, Guerra, Fullington, Ecklund, BOsch, Forbes, Rodgers or Lesuma, Hannam, Guerra , Alfread, Ayers, Frietag. I am not even sure I would take 09 Wr's over 2012. I know who left better kickers in the stable. DB's? Not sure anyone matches what Buchanon brought to the table. So I am wondering how having kids make practice squads and getting drafted is that hard to grasp over players like Matt E and the like?
Why don't you ask instead? With all that talent that Wulff recruited, it is a wonder he didn't make a BCS Bowl.
 
Here's some interesting facts about Wulff from Wulff himself about 2008

90% of reps were given to Rogers in spring and fall camp, and 10% to Lopina
When the mighty elite beast portland state knocked out both QBs we didn't have a QB on the roster who had taken a rep...

Just goes to show how absolutely stupid Paul Wulff was.
Not only could he not coach, but in practice he didn't let the young guys get any reps..

He had QBs he just had zero idea what to do with them.
 
Depends on what you call BS stuff. You had McGuire on the hotseat before he coached a game. You periodically bitch about th 2012 Colorado game. Have you gone a week without posting how terrible the 2014 season was?

You see ChitEd (no longer CougEd because he's no coug, and he'll have to earn it back)

ChitEd doesn't support the current coach, and clings to the previous coach out of pure desperation. ChitEd doesn't care about the future, he's part of the deadweight that has crippled the cougs for years. Loud mouth walden, Jim Moore, ChitEd they are all the same ilk..

Old idiots living in the past that get hung up on their own ideas instead of looking at reality.

No matter how hard he types he'll never convince the world that Wulff wasn't at fault. Everyone can see that he was, but he still types dragging everyone down to his delusional world of "doing it the right way" when all statistical and historical realties contradict his views.

ChitEd is the shackles that Butch has to wear around his ankles as he trudges forward.

ChitEd doesn't care about facts, logic, rankings, stats, he only sees his deadweight false hopes and half truths which he clings to furiously despite whether it would be in the best interest of everyone to do so.

ChitEd isn't in it for the cougs.
 
You see ChitEd (no longer CougEd because he's no coug, and he'll have to earn it back)

ChitEd doesn't support the current coach, and clings to the previous coach out of pure desperation. ChitEd doesn't care about the future, he's part of the deadweight that has crippled the cougs for years. Loud mouth walden, Jim Moore, ChitEd they are all the same ilk..

Old idiots living in the past that get hung up on their own ideas instead of looking at reality.

No matter how hard he types he'll never convince the world that Wulff wasn't at fault. Everyone can see that he was, but he still types dragging everyone down to his delusional world of "doing it the right way" when all statistical and historical realties contradict his views.

ChitEd is the shackles that Butch has to wear around his ankles as he trudges forward.

ChitEd doesn't care about facts, logic, rankings, stats, he only sees his deadweight false hopes and half truths which he clings to furiously despite whether it would be in the best interest of everyone to do so.

ChitEd isn't in it for the cougs.
Oh F you tron. I guarantee Ed has given more to school than you ever will.

Don't see you donating season tickets for free to put butts in seats.

You're a piece of shit.
 
Oh F you tron. I guarantee Ed has given more to school than you ever will.

Don't see you donating season tickets for free to put butts in seats.

You're a piece of shit.

Anyone can buy tickets. The only requirement is money. Not everyone can claim to be a loyal supporter to what we are doing today, and THAT is what matters.

That is what makes you a Coug.
 
You see ChitEd (no longer CougEd because he's no coug, and he'll have to earn it back)

ChitEd doesn't support the current coach, and clings to the previous coach out of pure desperation. ChitEd doesn't care about the future, he's part of the deadweight that has crippled the cougs for years. Loud mouth walden, Jim Moore, ChitEd they are all the same ilk..

Old idiots living in the past that get hung up on their own ideas instead of looking at reality.

No matter how hard he types he'll never convince the world that Wulff wasn't at fault. Everyone can see that he was, but he still types dragging everyone down to his delusional world of "doing it the right way" when all statistical and historical realties contradict his views.

ChitEd is the shackles that Butch has to wear around his ankles as he trudges forward.

ChitEd doesn't care about facts, logic, rankings, stats, he only sees his deadweight false hopes and half truths which he clings to furiously despite whether it would be in the best interest of everyone to do so.

ChitEd isn't in it for the cougs.
Yes Coug-wears-a-thong, old guys with old ideas. Call me and say that I am not a Coug. I f-in dare you. And not from a blocked phone either. What, I don't support the coach? Have I ever once said he is on the hot seat. Nope. Did I say once he Breske had to go. I simply point out to you that 2014 happened because of the secondary. I pointed out that he missed on two corners and he couldn't afford to miss on them. Just as Wulff in his first year missed on Sanchez, Luapo and three HS lineman. He couldn't afford to. He need to be spot on, he needed some luck. It didn't happen. 1-11.

Moos will tell you f-in support goes to the program, not who you OR I personally like or believe in. Your support and others was dependent on who coaches. My support is for the school, and you have the nerve to question my support.

I came within two inches of my life to see a meaningless game in November of 86, to see Rosie start his first game. Hit a sheet of ice, rolled the car four times, girlfriend went through the windshield. The side of first impact was driver side and fortunately I reached over and grabbed the door to "belt" her in. And you know who was at the game with a six inch scar in their head, and all bandaged up in 20 degree weather? So never ever question my Cougness. EVER.
 
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Yes old guys with old ideas. Call me and say that I am not a Coug. 206 300 7309.

You are not a Coug ChitEd I don't care if you post your phone number, your diploma, a urine sample.

What matters is how you act. All you've done is throw dirt on Leach since he showed up, and propping up the last coach who failed us instead of supporting the new coach and letting the old coach's tenure be what it was. One of the worst in our history.

It's your incessant need to try and undermine any progress we make. If you start looking at the things we've accomplished instead of the things we still have yet to do then I would reconsider, but your track record is what it is.

Somebody that doesn't support the program which includes the current coach and that makes you ChitEd until you get it together.
 
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Oh F you tron. I guarantee Ed has given more to school than you ever will.

Don't see you donating season tickets for free to put butts in seats.

You're a piece of shit.

Oh F you tron. I guarantee Ed has given more to school than you ever will.

Don't see you donating season tickets for free to put butts in seats.

You're a piece of shit.
still falling back on your brothers donations i see, why don't you brag about your own donations?
Well because his "Cougness wasn't attacked".
 
Depends on what you call BS stuff. You had McGuire on the hotseat before he coached a game. You periodically bitch about th 2012 Colorado game. Have you gone a week without posting how terrible the 2014 season was?
 
Good read once again. He was never on the hot seat.
You are not a Coug ChitEd I don't care if you post your phone number, your diploma, a urine sample.

What matters is how you act. All you've done is throw dirt on Leach since he showed up, and propping up the last coach who failed us instead of supporting the new coach and letting the old coach's tenure be what it was. One of the worst in our history.

It's your incessant need to try and undermine any progress we make. If you start looking at the things we've accomplished instead of the things we still have yet to do then I would reconsider, but your track record is what it is.

Somebody that doesn't support the program which includes the current coach and that makes you ChitEd until you get it together.
Guess what thong...first, you are such a coward behind a key board. Call me, meet me face to face. I will fly today wherever you are. I want to see the person who dare says this to me. This isn't a threat. I am not going to have a fight with you. Tell me where you are in five hours and I will be there. I want to see you look me in the eye and say this, not behind a keyboard.

And by the way, you aren't the arbiter of who is and isn't a Coug. I act by donating money to the program, I act by buying season tickets. I act by watching the games. I act by not pissing and moaning after the games. I don't post after frustrating losses. I didn't post after he Cal game. I don't piss and moan every time a player quits. I don't undermine the coach or the staff by saying "ever occur to you they didn't want to play for a FCS coach". Such a lack of respect for a guy your administration including Moos selected to lead your program.

Throwing dirt on Leach. I like him. What dirt? That he was 3-9 in 2014? That is dirt? Is it dirt pointing out the fact he in two years has a worse record than his predecessor? That is fact. Is it dirt to think with the experienced talent he has coming back he will be 5-7 and will go bowling in 2016?

But back the initial discussion, tell me where we are going to meet coward-tron
 
Well because his "Cougness wasn't attacked".
Here's the thing. If we start copy/pasting all the weird and what some would consider, "anti-Coug" statements made, we'd be considered creepy and stalkers. Yet you guys continually up the ante with the rhetoric. It would be easy to tell the "others" to calm down too, but it wasn't them that literally made up a play and when video evidence of the contrary came out, started playing with the definition of "taking on" was to defend a position that wasn't sustainable and based on fabrication. "That depends on what the definition of 'is', is…"
I don't doubt you or Sponges "Coug-ness". I do strongly believe that both of you argue, just for the sake of arguing. I believe this is a prime example. Even after being proven wrong, he still tried to come back and argue… until more video evidence came out.
 
Good read once again. He was never on the hot seat.

Guess what thong...first, you are such a coward behind a key board. Call me, meet me face to face. I will fly today wherever you are.

I don't want to see your Cougless Face ChitEd. I want you to act like a Coug that supports the current program instead of being the bitter defender of Wulff.

I want you to not come on here and do nothing but try and point out flaws.
I want you to accept that he Wulff was the worst so you can be free and return to your cougar brethren
I want a new world for you ChitEd...a real future as a fan. Where you don't bitterly cling to the past, but look to the future with optimism.

A new CougEd will be born. A better CougEd. A wiser CougEd... A respectable CougEd...but until then you are ChitEd the lost and misguided and only when you come to Butch will you be saved!
 
Throwing dirt on Leach. I like him. What dirt? That he was 3-9 in 2014? That is dirt? Is it dirt pointing out the fact he in two years has a worse record than his predecessor? That is fact.
Here's the kind of statement that kills any/all credibility for you. It might be fact but it's also dirt, ed. And you know it'll rile everyone up. You know it's dirt because you know it riles everyone up.

You might find a statistic or two that can show CML isn't doing too well in comparison to the previous administration, but you've got to work at it. Because if you start delving into statistics, there are waaaay more stats that show improvement than the opposite. But YOU try to find the few stats that show lack of improvement. Yeah, lets wonder why some might question your "coug-ness"…. sheesh, ed. You say something that is "positive" and in the very next sentence, you shoot yourself in the "credibility foot". You have a choice to talk about the 20-30-40-50 stats that show improvement. But you choose the 2 or 3, lets even go so far as 5 stats that are poor… Thanks for the slap in the face, dude. Please bring up that statistic every time you are in an argument with a Coug that is trying to be proud of their alma mater… :eek:
 
Here's the kind of statement that kills any/all credibility for you. It might be fact but it's also dirt, ed. And you know it'll rile everyone up. You know it's dirt because you know it riles everyone up.

You might find a statistic or two that can show CML isn't doing too well in comparison to the previous administration, but you've got to work at it. Because if you start delving into statistics, there are waaaay more stats that show improvement than the opposite. But YOU try to find the few stats that show lack of improvement. Yeah, lets wonder why some might question your "coug-ness"…. sheesh, ed. You say something that is "positive" and in the very next sentence, you shoot yourself in the "credibility foot". You have a choice to talk about the 20-30-40-50 stats that show improvement. But you choose the 2 or 3, lets even go so far as 5 stats that are poor… Thanks for the slap in the face, dude. Please bring up that statistic every time you are in an argument with a Coug that is trying to be proud of their alma mater… :eek:
I*'ll buy...cause I don't look at stats. Other than saying he is 3-9, which is what they are paid for,
I don't want to see your Cougless Face ChitEd. I want you to act like a Coug that supports the current program instead of being the bitter defender of Wulff.

I want you to not come on here and do nothing but try and point out flaws.
I want you to accept that he Wulff was the worst so you can be free and return to your cougar brethren
I want a new world for you ChitEd...a real future as a fan. Where you don't bitterly cling to the past, but look to the future with optimism.

A new CougEd will be born. A better CougEd. A wiser CougEd... A respectable CougEd...but until then you are ChitEd the lost and misguided and only when you come to Butch will you be saved!
Coward-tron....of course you don't. You want to hide behind the keyboard. I have endured more losing seasons that your immature ass has been alive. Don't lecture me. I am not lost, I am not misguided.
Here's the kind of statement that kills any/all credibility for you. It might be fact but it's also dirt, ed. And you know it'll rile everyone up. You know it's dirt because you know it riles everyone up.

You might find a statistic or two that can show CML isn't doing too well in comparison to the previous administration, but you've got to work at it. Because if you start delving into statistics, there are waaaay more stats that show improvement than the opposite. But YOU try to find the few stats that show lack of improvement. Yeah, lets wonder why some might question your "coug-ness"…. sheesh, ed. You say something that is "positive" and in the very next sentence, you shoot yourself in the "credibility foot". You have a choice to talk about the 20-30-40-50 stats that show improvement. But you choose the 2 or 3, lets even go so far as 5 stats that are poor… Thanks for the slap in the face, dude. Please bring up that statistic every time you are in an argument with a Coug that is trying to be proud of their alma mater… :eek:

With all due respect 95, I never once questioned anyone about their devotion to the university when in 2009 they "knew " Wulff was the wrong guy, brought up the fact he didn't win the hearts and minds of the players, or that he put a stop sign up (his hand) when a player interrupted a conversation Wulff was having with another coach. I never second guessed their cougness when every last inch of coaching was dissected, to the point four years later a poster can see Tuel on film being infected by the flu. I watched people piss and moan about the experience of the staff, and never once questioned their cougness.

I don't look at stats. I don't care about rankings or stars. There are people like Rick Neheisel who could sell anything to anyone. But he couldn't evaluate talent. When I see some schmuck like Wulff recruit four qb's in four years, one is in the NFL, one is the school passing leader and was invited to an NFL camp, one transferred out and was the starter at UAB, and one transferred out and looks to be the starter at New Mexico, then I look at what Rick N brought in, Cody Paus, or Bill Doba, stars don't matter to me.

So I am not a huge stats guy. When Leach was hired I was ecstatic. As I have pointed out before and I will point out for probably the 100th time, I supported Wulff because I knew in 2007 the crap pile the next coach had at their hands. It was a total rebuild. So I watched, and I saw glimpses that caused me to lend support. I felt stability at that position was Important. But Biggs and I talked to each other in 2010, mid season and he said we should hire Leach. I said to him that if we could afford him, which we couldn't, I would fire Wulff immediately. And if my brother was the coach I would fire him as well. So I always thought Leach was a great coach, and would be a great fit.

When Leach was hired I thought it was great for the university. I thought we would win six games in 2012. It didn't happen, I chalked it up to transitions. There was never a question to this point that Leach would win, it was a certainty in my mind.

He went to a bowl game with virtually all Big Sky players as many like to refer to them as. It was great. The program was on the upswing. Then 2014 with his own players, some young, and WSU crapped their pants. So what went from a certainty in my mind is now I think he will get it done.

I don't see winning 6 in 2015. I see us going bowling in 2016. I hope I am wrong about 2015, but there are too many unknowns. Unknowns that people inside simply gloss over. I am fine with 4-5 wins if I see progress in 2015 in the back 4.

So I can be supportive of the program, and yet be real with my expectations, and be ok with those expectations.

I had zero connection with Wulff. I knew one person on his staff, and it is a "distant" knowing them. I have more of an emotional connection with Leach and staff and I would hate to see them fired.
 
I*'ll buy...cause I don't look at stats. Other than saying he is 3-9, which is what they are paid for,

Coward-tron....of course you don't. You want to hide behind the keyboard. I have endured more losing seasons that your immature ass has been alive. Don't lecture me. I am not lost, I am not misguided.


With all due respect 95, I never once questioned anyone about their devotion to the university when in 2009 they "knew " Wulff was the wrong guy, brought up the fact he didn't win the hearts and minds of the players, or that he put a stop sign up (his hand) when a player interrupted a conversation Wulff was having with another coach. I never second guessed their cougness when every last inch of coaching was dissected, to the point four years later a poster can see Tuel on film being infected by the flu. I watched people piss and moan about the experience of the staff, and never once questioned their cougness.

I don't look at stats. I don't care about rankings or stars. There are people like Rick Neheisel who could sell anything to anyone. But he couldn't evaluate talent. When I see some schmuck like Wulff recruit four qb's in four years, one is in the NFL, one is the school passing leader and was invited to an NFL camp, one transferred out and was the starter at UAB, and one transferred out and looks to be the starter at New Mexico, then I look at what Rick N brought in, Cody Paus, or Bill Doba, stars don't matter to me.

So I am not a huge stats guy. When Leach was hired I was ecstatic. As I have pointed out before and I will point out for probably the 100th time, I supported Wulff because I knew in 2007 the crap pile the next coach had at their hands. It was a total rebuild. So I watched, and I saw glimpses that caused me to lend support. I felt stability at that position was Important. But Biggs and I talked to each other in 2010, mid season and he said we should hire Leach. I said to him that if we could afford him, which we couldn't, I would fire Wulff immediately. And if my brother was the coach I would fire him as well. So I always thought Leach was a great coach, and would be a great fit.

When Leach was hired I thought it was great for the university. I thought we would win six games in 2012. It didn't happen, I chalked it up to transitions. There was never a question to this point that Leach would win, it was a certainty in my mind.

He went to a bowl game with virtually all Big Sky players as many like to refer to them as. It was great. The program was on the upswing. Then 2014 with his own players, some young, and WSU crapped their pants. So what went from a certainty in my mind is now I think he will get it done.

I don't see winning 6 in 2015. I see us going bowling in 2016. I hope I am wrong about 2015, but there are too many unknowns. Unknowns that people inside simply gloss over. I am fine with 4-5 wins if I see progress in 2015 in the back 4.

So I can be supportive of the program, and yet be real with my expectations, and be ok with those expectations.

I had zero connection with Wulff. I knew one person on his staff, and it is a "distant" knowing them. I have more of an emotional connection with Leach and staff and I would hate to see them fired.
OK. I'm going to use your, and Sponges, tactic here… "I only got into the first sentence and then I quit." Not quite the first sentence but pretty close.

I was only pointing out, you bring up the 1 statistic that is going to be equivalent to pissing in our collective Cheerio's, and then wonder why some might question your allegiance? Are you new to this board? Do you NOT know this kind of thing will rile people up? THAT is why it seems like you are doing this intentionally! There are soooo many other stats you could bring up in that sentence I quoted, and you hammer and hammer the same 2 or 3. Not the 30 or 50. And you do it on purpose to piss everyone off because you AREN'T new to this board. You know exactly what ticks people off.

And another point, your not a stat's guy but you use the only negative ones? Thanks, man. You're a peach. You're choice on what stats you wanna bring to the table but you act surprised when every few months, someone brings up your "coug-ness"… I'd be expecting it, if I were you… But I'm not you so take that for what it's worth. Or maybe you do it intentionally so you could electronically puff up your chest to Tron… I don't know… whatever but after a while, I'd be expecting this reaction, ed.
 
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I*'ll buy...cause I don't look at stats. Other than saying he is 3-9, which is what they are paid for,

Coward-tron....of course you don't. You want to hide behind the keyboard. I have endured more losing seasons that your immature ass has been alive. Don't lecture me. I am not lost, I am not misguided.

.

You are misguided ChitEd.

In 2012 you saw a bowl team, but really there was no bowl before with these players. There wasn't even 5 wins. The most was 4. So in your head you THOUGHT they were better than they were.

In 2013 we went to a bowl game and instead of congratulating Leach on doing something we hadn't done in 10 years it was "Well it was allll because of Wulff"...ignoring guys like Gauta, Marks, Mayle, Cracraft. Sagote, . 3 of our 4 top receivers had nothing to do with Wulff.
In tackles 3 of our top 10 tackles Sagote, Brown, Palacio were leach guys #11 was Gauta.

Instead of giving Leach credit for bringing in pieces and installing a new offense breaking NCAA records and doing something that hasn't been done in 10 years...while elevating the few pieces we did have to work with...you want to make it seem like it was all Wulff guys and Wulff would have done it all by himself.

Then when "Leach had nothing but his players" which is Untrue. Tracy Clark was no Leach player the secondary suffers without upper classmen to transition to it's ALL leach's fault.

The kicking situation I am perfectly fine for criticism for not securing someone when ours was poached by UW.

But that secondary was a direct result of not having any upperclassmen left after the 2010 class graduated. And that is on Wulff. We have plenty of secondary guys on the roster, but nobody to pass the torch onto in the transition.

So unlike the other Cougs out there ChitEd you try to give Wulff credit for everything Leach does well and then try to punish only him for when Wulff made mistakes that hurt the future.

That is not a Coug.. That is a ChitEd Wulffian. You are more than welcome to come back to the Coug nation when you stop being ChitEd.
 
It is interesting that in 2013, we always "got to the bowl with Wulff players", but when Halliday, Laufasa, and Caldwell made massive errors that cost the team the game, we didn't "lose the bowl because of Wulff players"- it was because of a series of plays we called up 15.
 
You are not a Coug ChitEd I don't care if you post your phone number, your diploma, a urine sample.

What matters is how you act. All you've done is throw dirt on Leach since he showed up, and propping up the last coach who failed us instead of supporting the new coach and letting the old coach's tenure be what it was. One of the worst in our history.

It's your incessant need to try and undermine any progress we make. If you start looking at the things we've accomplished instead of the things we still have yet to do then I would reconsider, but your track record is what it is.

Somebody that doesn't support the program which includes the current coach and that makes you ChitEd until you get it together.

Dick Baird was once an ardent supporter of Cougar football, both in spirit and in cash.
 
Here's the kind of statement that kills any/all credibility for you. It might be fact but it's also dirt, ed. And you know it'll rile everyone up. You know it's dirt because you know it riles everyone up.

You might find a statistic or two that can show CML isn't doing too well in comparison to the previous administration, but you've got to work at it. Because if you start delving into statistics, there are waaaay more stats that show improvement than the opposite. But YOU try to find the few stats that show lack of improvement. Yeah, lets wonder why some might question your "coug-ness"…. sheesh, ed. You say something that is "positive" and in the very next sentence, you shoot yourself in the "credibility foot". You have a choice to talk about the 20-30-40-50 stats that show improvement. But you choose the 2 or 3, lets even go so far as 5 stats that are poor… Thanks for the slap in the face, dude. Please bring up that statistic every time you are in an argument with a Coug that is trying to be proud of their alma mater… :eek:

That's the thing when you have an Agenda & an Ego. They can't be Camouflaged. In the end, people can see right through his insincerity & his drive to be correct shines through. Make no mistake, its all about Ed being vindicated these days for those 4yrs of Rhetoric.
 
That's the thing when you have an Agenda & an Ego. They can't be Camouflaged. In the end, people can see right through his insincerity & his drive to be correct shines through. Make no mistake, its all about Ed being vindicated these days for those 4yrs of Rhetoric.

I accept that some fans do not like Leach. I accept they have their doubts, but what is unacceptable is the compulsive and maniacal campaign to diss him and the program hundreds and hundreds of times before WSU has lost a single game in 2015. Why not just STHU and wait to see what happens? Personally, if WSU is 2-2 going into the Oregon game, I'm going to be quite critical, but I'm going to wait for that failure before I go there, just as I waited until after the 2006 season to question the program's direction under Doba.
There are things I don't like about Leach, but I acknowledge the obstacles he inherited, and they were undeniably significant. The program will have 20 or more offensive linemen on scholarship this fall. Some may dismiss this achievement, but numbers mean greater competition and depth, which have been sorely missing for several years now. The numbers, size, and talent on defense also are coming into place. Guys like Daniel Ekuale and Hercules Mata'afa are no longer the boys they were when they stepped onto campus. JC transfers Ivan McLennan and Paris Taylor are in their third year in the program and are a nice blend with younger players who've arrived.
Is this and many other signs of improvement I could mention going to be enough? Rutgers, with its recent string of bowl appearances, isn't going to just fold; Cal will score points on virtually everyone, so 4-0 isn't guaranteed. I do think it's achievable, however.
After that, I'm not just hoping to win 2 of the next 8 games to become bowl eligible. WSU and Leach need to establish this program, not just raise a glass to mediocrity. It's great we got into a bowl in 2013 - the first time in a decade. But we're also a program that has lost 64 of its last 85 games. We have something to prove, but we also have some very nice things in place to get there.
Hundreds and hundreds of nitpicking and petty posts fail to acknowledge this. Great. Then just sit back, brood in silence and wait. If WSU flops in 2015, you'll get your chance to be critical. I'm not going to post 300 times a week about it, but I also will be critical.
Good day to you all!
 
That's the thing when you have an Agenda & an Ego. They can't be Camouflaged. In the end, people can see right through his insincerity & his drive to be correct shines through. Make no mistake, its all about Ed being vindicated these days for those 4yrs of Rhetoric.

Exactly, at this point I believe its LESS about defending Wulff, and MORE about wanting to be right/have the last word while dismissing all other opinions whether factually correct or not.

Some wacky examples of whats going on here:

Just think of it like a simple line graph: Ed/Sponge/etc... argue as if the Wulff trend line of team performance improvement is materially equivalent to Leach's, with slight variations (recurring examples they like to point out, such as the CU game, New Mexico Bowl, etc..). The problem is that its not. Leach's team performance improvement trend is WAY higher, and A LOT of people understand that. Yes, you can have dips/disappointments, but our current team's "lows" are STILL higher than the ceiling Wulff offered. There is a reason people say "Wulff's bar is low", etc.... The only thing comparable between the two is that they both are/were head coaches at Washington State University.

Lets use another example, such as two company income statements (Wulff, Inc. and Leach, LLC). Leach, LLC's revenues are in the tens of millions, where as Wulff, Inc's revenues are in the hundreds of thousands. If BOTH company's GPM (gross profit margin) decreases 7% by year-end, both companies had a "down" year. Ed/Sponge/Etc.. like to "common size" the two companies, trying to compare Wulff Inc's failures with Leach LLC's failures.... the problem with that is Leach LLC still made more money despite the decrease in GPM, has a stronger income statement and a stronger balance sheet than Wulff Inc. Tron (and friends) point that out --- a point routinely dismissed by Ed/Sponge/Etc...

As pointed out above, Ed does throw in a sentence or two of "middle ground" opinions of Leach, but then he usually follows that up with something negative, which OBVIOUSLY people will react to. Thus, the endless cycle of arguing continues....
 
Exactly, at this point I believe its LESS about defending Wulff, and MORE about wanting to be right/have the last word while dismissing all other opinions whether factually correct or not.

Some wacky examples of whats going on here:

Just think of it like a simple line graph: Ed/Sponge/etc... argue as if the Wulff trend line of team performance improvement is materially equivalent to Leach's, with slight variations (recurring examples they like to point out, such as the CU game, New Mexico Bowl, etc..). The problem is that its not. Leach's team performance improvement trend is WAY higher, and A LOT of people understand that. Yes, you can have dips/disappointments, but our current team's "lows" are STILL higher than the ceiling Wulff offered. There is a reason people say "Wulff's bar is low", etc.... The only thing comparable between the two is that they both are/were head coaches at Washington State University.

Lets use another example, such as two company income statements (Wulff, Inc. and Leach, LLC). Leach, LLC's revenues are in the tens of millions, where as Wulff, Inc's revenues are in the hundreds of thousands. If BOTH company's GPM (gross profit margin) decreases 7% by year-end, both companies had a "down" year. Ed/Sponge/Etc.. like to "common size" the two companies, trying to compare Wulff Inc's failures with Leach LLC's failures.... the problem with that is Leach LLC still made more money despite the decrease in GPM, has a stronger income statement and a stronger balance sheet than Wulff Inc. Tron (and friends) point that out --- a point routinely dismissed by Ed/Sponge/Etc...

As pointed out above, Ed does throw in a sentence or two of "middle ground" opinions of Leach, but then he usually follows that up with something negative, which OBVIOUSLY people will react to. Thus, the endless cycle of arguing continues....

The pattern is undeniable.
 
Exactly, at this point I believe its LESS about defending Wulff, and MORE about wanting to be right/have the last word while dismissing all other opinions whether factually correct or not.

Some wacky examples of whats going on here:

Just think of it like a simple line graph: Ed/Sponge/etc... argue as if the Wulff trend line of team performance improvement is materially equivalent to Leach's, with slight variations (recurring examples they like to point out, such as the CU game, New Mexico Bowl, etc..). The problem is that its not. Leach's team performance improvement trend is WAY higher, and A LOT of people understand that. Yes, you can have dips/disappointments, but our current team's "lows" are STILL higher than the ceiling Wulff offered. There is a reason people say "Wulff's bar is low", etc.... The only thing comparable between the two is that they both are/were head coaches at Washington State University.

Lets use another example, such as two company income statements (Wulff, Inc. and Leach, LLC). Leach, LLC's revenues are in the tens of millions, where as Wulff, Inc's revenues are in the hundreds of thousands. If BOTH company's GPM (gross profit margin) decreases 7% by year-end, both companies had a "down" year. Ed/Sponge/Etc.. like to "common size" the two companies, trying to compare Wulff Inc's failures with Leach LLC's failures.... the problem with that is Leach LLC still made more money despite the decrease in GPM, has a stronger income statement and a stronger balance sheet than Wulff Inc. Tron (and friends) point that out --- a point routinely dismissed by Ed/Sponge/Etc...

As pointed out above, Ed does throw in a sentence or two of "middle ground" opinions of Leach, but then he usually follows that up with something negative, which OBVIOUSLY people will react to. Thus, the endless cycle of arguing continues....

2, 1, 2, 4.

I see an outlier rather than a trend.
 
I*'ll buy...cause I don't look at stats. Other than saying he is 3-9, which is what they are paid for,

Coward-tron....of course you don't. You want to hide behind the keyboard. I have endured more losing seasons that your immature ass has been alive. Don't lecture me. I am not lost, I am not misguided.


With all due respect 95, I never once questioned anyone about their devotion to the university when in 2009 they "knew " Wulff was the wrong guy, brought up the fact he didn't win the hearts and minds of the players, or that he put a stop sign up (his hand) when a player interrupted a conversation Wulff was having with another coach. I never second guessed their cougness when every last inch of coaching was dissected, to the point four years later a poster can see Tuel on film being infected by the flu. I watched people piss and moan about the experience of the staff, and never once questioned their cougness.

I don't look at stats. I don't care about rankings or stars. There are people like Rick Neheisel who could sell anything to anyone. But he couldn't evaluate talent. When I see some schmuck like Wulff recruit four qb's in four years, one is in the NFL, one is the school passing leader and was invited to an NFL camp, one transferred out and was the starter at UAB, and one transferred out and looks to be the starter at New Mexico, then I look at what Rick N brought in, Cody Paus, or Bill Doba, stars don't matter to me.

So I am not a huge stats guy. When Leach was hired I was ecstatic. As I have pointed out before and I will point out for probably the 100th time, I supported Wulff because I knew in 2007 the crap pile the next coach had at their hands. It was a total rebuild. So I watched, and I saw glimpses that caused me to lend support. I felt stability at that position was Important. But Biggs and I talked to each other in 2010, mid season and he said we should hire Leach. I said to him that if we could afford him, which we couldn't, I would fire Wulff immediately. And if my brother was the coach I would fire him as well. So I always thought Leach was a great coach, and would be a great fit.

When Leach was hired I thought it was great for the university. I thought we would win six games in 2012. It didn't happen, I chalked it up to transitions. There was never a question to this point that Leach would win, it was a certainty in my mind.

He went to a bowl game with virtually all Big Sky players as many like to refer to them as. It was great. The program was on the upswing. Then 2014 with his own players, some young, and WSU crapped their pants. So what went from a certainty in my mind is now I think he will get it done.

I don't see winning 6 in 2015. I see us going bowling in 2016. I hope I am wrong about 2015, but there are too many unknowns. Unknowns that people inside simply gloss over. I am fine with 4-5 wins if I see progress in 2015 in the back 4.

So I can be supportive of the program, and yet be real with my expectations, and be ok with those expectations.

I had zero connection with Wulff. I knew one person on his staff, and it is a "distant" knowing them. I have more of an emotional connection with Leach and staff and I would hate to see them fired.

Ed, considering your sensitivity to privacy it is highly hypocritical for you to say anything about hiding behind a keyboard.

All you really need to do is not act like a chump, and people won't treat you like one.
 
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I accept that some fans do not like Leach. I accept they have their doubts, but what is unacceptable is the compulsive and maniacal campaign to diss him and the program hundreds and hundreds of times before WSU has lost a single game in 2015. Why not just STHU and wait to see what happens? Personally, if WSU is 2-2 going into the Oregon game, I'm going to be quite critical, but I'm going to wait for that failure before I go there, just as I waited until after the 2006 season to question the program's direction under Doba.
There are things I don't like about Leach, but I acknowledge the obstacles he inherited, and they were undeniably significant. The program will have 20 or more offensive linemen on scholarship this fall. Some may dismiss this achievement, but numbers mean greater competition and depth, which have been sorely missing for several years now. The numbers, size, and talent on defense also are coming into place. Guys like Daniel Ekuale and Hercules Mata'afa are no longer the boys they were when they stepped onto campus. JC transfers Ivan McLennan and Paris Taylor are in their third year in the program and are a nice blend with younger players who've arrived.
Is this and many other signs of improvement I could mention going to be enough? Rutgers, with its recent string of bowl appearances, isn't going to just fold; Cal will score points on virtually everyone, so 4-0 isn't guaranteed. I do think it's achievable, however.
After that, I'm not just hoping to win 2 of the next 8 games to become bowl eligible. WSU and Leach need to establish this program, not just raise a glass to mediocrity. It's great we got into a bowl in 2013 - the first time in a decade. But we're also a program that has lost 64 of its last 85 games. We have something to prove, but we also have some very nice things in place to get there.
Hundreds and hundreds of nitpicking and petty posts fail to acknowledge this. Great. Then just sit back, brood in silence and wait. If WSU flops in 2015, you'll get your chance to be critical. I'm not going to post 300 times a week about it, but I also will be critical.
Good day to you all!
I thought you might miss someone calling you out. So here goes. Yaki, you are such a Kool-Aid drinker :p
 
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I

With all due respect 95, I never once questioned anyone about their devotion to the university when in 2009 they "knew " Wulff was the wrong guy, brought up the fact he didn't win the hearts and minds of the players, or that he put a stop sign up (his hand) when a player interrupted a conversation Wulff was having with another coach.
See Ed, I am the person who brought many of those things up. The problem is that either you are remembering it incorrectly like putting up a hand in a players face. Or, you are intentionally not telling it correctly. I was the person who the player said Wulff did that to and I was the one who wrote in on Cougzone back then. It was after practice. Wulff was not talking to another coach. Wulff was alone and walking off the field when this player approached him and Wulff stuck his hand in his face, then walked away. I heard similar type stories from other players that thought Wulff was a complete ass. So, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe it was the former. However, with that it is just like most things. You remember things incorrectly, but it becomes fact to you. Then, you argue with everyone using your incorrect facts.

Still, I am sure that there are players that that thought Leach was a complete ass. Leach was an ass because he demanded a lot from the players. He absolutely hates players not giving their all. Wulff on the other hand, was an ass because he was an ass.
 
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The pattern is undeniable.
That's partly where the Hoff post came from. This endless argument stopped being about football a long time ago and makes me wistful about the Brink wars, because at least that was mostly a debate about football, not about Cougness or getting the last word. Being right on the internet is tilting at windmills.
 
See Ed, I am the person who brought many of those things up. The problem is that either you are remembering it incorrectly like putting up a hand in a players face. Or, you are intentionally not telling it correctly. I was the person who the player said Wulff did that to and I was the one who wrote in on Cougzone back then. It was after practice. Wulff was not talking to another coach. Wulff was alone and walking off the field when this player approached him and Wulff stuck his hand in his face, then walked away. I heard similar type stories from other players that thought Wulff was a complete ass. So, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe it was the former. However, with that it is just like most things. You remember things incorrectly, but it becomes fact to you. Then, you argue with everyone using your incorrect facts.

Still, I am sure that there are players that that thought Leach was a complete ass. Leach was an ass because he demanded a lot from the players. He absolutely hates players not giving their all. Wulff on the other hand, was an ass because he was an ass.
 
Ed, considering your sensitivity to privacy it is highly hypocritical for you to say anything about hiding behind a keyboard.

All you really need to do is not act like a chump, and people won't treat you like one.
No...I am highly sensitive to people who would go out of their way to post names on this board of woman who have nothing to do with it. I am sensitive for their safety and my wife and kids safety when such a stalker invades that arena when there is no need to.
 
See Ed, I am the person who brought many of those things up. The problem is that either you are remembering it incorrectly like putting up a hand in a players face. Or, you are intentionally not telling it correctly. I was the person who the player said Wulff did that to and I was the one who wrote in on Cougzone back then. It was after practice. Wulff was not talking to another coach. Wulff was alone and walking off the field when this player approached him and Wulff stuck his hand in his face, then walked away. I heard similar type stories from other players that thought Wulff was a complete ass. So, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe it was the former. However, with that it is just like most things. You remember things incorrectly, but it becomes fact to you. Then, you argue with everyone using your incorrect facts.

Still, I am sure that there are players that that thought Leach was a complete ass. Leach was an ass because he demanded a lot from the players. He absolutely hates players not giving their all. Wulff on the other hand, was an ass because he was an ass.
You just made my point. It doesn't matter why he stuck his hand out, he did. You weren't there. You got in second or third hand. Even if it is true, he may have been scribbling something down, he may have been in a train of thought organizing something in his mind for practice. It doesn't matter why he did it, there was a reason. You say it is because he is a ass just to be an ass. Yet his recruits didn't have the same issues as the disgruntled ones. Same goes for Leach, his recruits didn't have the same problems with his recruits as he did with Wulff's. It is normal, yet you post that crap, and it is crap, to the message board and perpetuate the complete lack of respect for the man because of where he came from, eastern.
 
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