What exactly has Leach done to deserve all your support?
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Tuel played in the OSU game and they lost by 23.
And they lost to SDSU by 18 with Lobbestael playing every bit as serviceable as Tuel's norm.
And, of course, since we're subbing in mythical wins, does "Healthy Tuel" throw for the 494 & 4 it took to beat ASU?
And no, that team didn't lose to a terrible CU team, they beat them by all of 4 points on a busted coverage by a converted WR playing CB.
It takes a lot of "ifs & buts" to get that '11 team to a bowl game. But, I'll admit, being even within "if & but" range was a massive improvement for Wulff over his previous efforts.
And they were a play or two from being 2-10.
And how do you give credit to Wulff for "having a decent idea what a Pac 10 lineman looked like", then dig on Doba for not recruiting one All Pac 10 D player as a head coach?
I must have missed the lengthy list of All Pac 10 OL Wulff either recruited, or coached.
So now Wulff lost the Utah game because of an officials conspiracy against, not just WSU, but specifically WULFF'S WSU? Wow.
And that youthful player who stayed in bounds was SR Jared Karstetter.
Ed hates facts. They get in the way of his Laws of Historical Fact and Probability. I'll also point out that Wulff had to burn all his TOs to get to the point where WSU would have the opportunity for a last desperate drive.
That's right. I had forgotten about that. That WR had only been player CB for two weeks I believe. A safety had also been moved over from RB the week before.
It took the best freshman QB performance in conference history to win that game against an ASU team in free fall.
First, not sure if Tuel was a program changer or not. He was always hurt. Was he Bledsoe, no, but Bledsoe had games where he was a turnover. Bledsoe like Leaf had one year. But the heights were probably higher than Tuel. Tuel with the right pieces was an 8 win qb at best. But it could be argued at the time he was considered among the top three qb's in the conference going into 2011.
Actually, recruiting lineman has always been a problem at WSU. Maybe that is why I give him leeway. He identified good lineman, he just had trouble reeling them in. Just like Price, just like Doba. Gonzales was slated to be a very good lineman. Guerra was functional. Fullington developed. Did you know Jake Rodgers was drafted?
Then you don't need to be unsure- he wasn't.
You really went right to Leaf and Bledsoe?
I keep comparing Leach to every good coach in the rest of college football. People on this board keep comparing him to Wulff. He's better than Wulff so he's fine! As for peer group, pray tell, what is his "peer group"? Sonny Dykes at Cal? You can bet your a$$ that if Cal is below 0.500 this year, Dykes is going to be seeking other employment. Rich Rodriguez got Arizona into the Top 10 at one point last year in his third year. Jim Mora took a program that had stumbled to a 10-16 record in Neuheisal's final two seasons and is 29-11 in his tenure. Sarkisian took a program that had gone 12-47 in the five years prior to his arrival and finished his career at UW with a 35-29 record. Sarkisian is 9-4 at USC where Kiffin was bumbling to a 10-8 finish to his time with the Trojans. Todd Graham took over a Sun Devil program on a slide that had gone 16-21 in Erickson's final three seasons. He has a 28-12 record at ASU. Not that it means much, but MacIntyre won as many games in his first season at Colorado as Embree had in his two seasons. Another 2-10 finish and you can bet that the hook is going to be readied up for him and a failure in year four will send him packing.
Do you mean that peer group? By all means, tell me how great Leach has done compared to his peer group!
If you read what I said, I'm not saying that anyone is calling for Leach's head. I'm not calling for his head right now. I'm saying that if we don't make it to a bowl game this year, there will be plenty of angry talk and the hot seat will be fired up. If we don't make it to a bowl game in 2016, it will be at a full boil. At that point, the idiotic contract that Moos signed with Leach would look pretty stupid. At that point, Moos is going to have to decide if he wants to spend some of our Pac-12 TV money getting a new coach. I certainly hope that it doesn't come to that, but we don't owe Leach anything based on what he did at Texas Tech and he hasn't done enough at WSU to justify his salary. For the comments above saying that Leach has raised our exposure and made us relevant, I would argue that a failure on his part imparts incredible damage to our program because there are those that will declare that it's proof that WSU is a career killer, despite the fact that many successful coaches have been at WSU and went onto other jobs (Sweeney, Powers, Erickson and Walden being the most recent examples).
Well simple...you have a coach from Eastern that walks into a program that went from 10 wins and cut them in half, which was clearly falling behind on recruiting. He walked into a situation where the bowl games where no longer in the rear view mirror. He had Williams drafted, he had Fullington make the 53 man roster, and Jake Rodgers was just drafted in the 7th round. \
Let's look at what Doba did on the heels of two ten win seaon's...how many Olineman were drafted ? Its ok, you can say it. How many of his olineman actually made a roster?
So, when Wulff calls to kick a chippy to tie a game- good move, couldn't tell if the ball was closer to the one or the goalline.
When Leach makes that same call, for an outright win... it's bad, and he should have punched it in?
We lost BOTH games, BTW.
When Leach makes that same call, for an outright win... it's bad, and he should have punched it in?
We lost BOTH games, BTW.
I'm shocked that Wulff landing a guy who couldn't hack it at the PXII level is once again proof of how great 9-40 was.
Hmmmm...maybe it was coaching, maybe that is why he couldn't hack it and went to Eastern to get good coaching. That argument sound familiar? The fact the NFL liked him enough to draft him says something.
Because Tuel never did anything as a college or pro QB, except lose. Even with all that UDFA OL talent around him.
Let me get this straight, you are willing to throw out 2012, but are writing the coach off for having one bowl season in 2 years? At WSU of all places?
And they led UCLA with 3:30 minutes left in the game. So yeah, they were close in 2011.
Not sure I disagree with you. Not sure there was anything that set Walden apart from anyone, or Jim Sweeney while he was here for that matter. Doesn't mean they aren't finding good players, and doesn't mean they aren't coaching up what they have.
That someone dropped a division to get better coaching? No, that argument sounds like you making up BS to slam the coaching staff we have now.
Maybe, but Roos was drafted out of Eastern, All Pro. Williams was drafted out of WSU, as now was Jake Rodgers, and Fullington was on the practice squad. How does that record compare to that of Price and Doba?
There are other positions on a football team besides OL- how does Wulff stack up by comparison at those positions?
Bad, right?
You just hit on the concern. He has never had a losing season until Pullman. He has never had to rebuild a program. He took over for Dykes who went bowling often, and he had success at Lubbock before Leach took over.
QB? Seems pretty decent. Agre or disagree? Would you rather have Tuel and Halliday or Rodgers for one year, Lopina for two, and JT Levy for 4?
Pole, Rankin and Cooper all seemed pretty functional. Who would I rather have, Laurenzi for one year, Pole ,Cooper and Paulo for three years or Matt E, Ahmu for one, and Toby Turpin for two but ran into academic problems and injuries cut short his career.
Kaufusi Mizel Coen, for three years or Trent, Evans for one? I think I know which way I would go with these comparisons.
Wait a second, aren't you the one who is telling people to let 2015 play out before they are critical? Aren't you really saying leave 2014 in the rear view mirror and 2015 should stand on itself in terms of improvement, yet you bring up 2008 USC game yet don't mention the 2009 game and the market improvement?
The DL/LB comparison- if Wulff wasn't impressed with the talent he inherited, why didn't he go get a Gauta, or a Sagote, to add to his deficient groups, like Leach did?
Leach didn't see a ready unit, obviously.
Nope, I'm not telling anyone anything. Have your opinion, it's wrong, but have it, no less.
Wasn't 2009 Hawaii 35, WSU 0 at 10 minutes of the second quarter? Yes, lets discuss the marked improvement.
I didn't cherry pick anything. I used an example that is fairly common in his offense
And I think that is the very reason, I for one, have a little more patience. We've NEVER had a coach that is proven for any real length of time in WSU history. We now have a coach that we know can win and knows how to win. And we want to treat him like a coach that is literally the worst coach in D1 history?
THAT part is one of the major points that makes no sense to me in this whole CML vs. CPW debate. This whole, "Not fair" or "Sounds like the same crap 5 years ago" comments pay no attention to the fact the 2 coaches are completely different caliber.
It's not THAT common, though- you've just got your antennas up anytime it comes close to that.
Since we are playing hypothetical's here, Doba also went to bowl games in 2006 and 2007.
