What I'm saying is that you don't know who the primary recruiters are on the staff. Of course the position coach has input. So does the DC and HC. Only you know why you're giving credit to Banker and ignoring everyone else.
2 OL is kiss of death
- Thread starter BiggsCoug
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What I'm saying is that you don't know who the primary recruiters are on the staff. Of course the position coach has input. So does the DC and HC. Only you know why you're giving credit to Banker and ignoring everyone else.
I'm saying that it's weird to have a message board poster on the brain first thing in the morning. Not exactly a winning morning habit..but you do you.
You are correct. But for your accuracy sake, how about this. John Richardson has been in charge of evaluating and selling many of the DB's, and the position has been upgraded in a hurry. He is the primary reason the defensive backfield has been upgraded.
While the point is about how the backfield was upgraded, and while I have a funny feeling Bankers expertise has guided the fortunes in the back end, he is not the primary reason the backfield was upgraded, and I stand corrected by an astute A and M fan.
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Fro was the argument we should take numbers regardless if they were Pac 10 players or not?
I have a funny feeling that Chau, Watson and Hector would have gotten here with or without Banker. Chau was heading to Wyoming. Watson and Hector were top notch recruits who needed a home.
To be fair, the staff needs a grizzled veteran. Banker is certainly that. Weber is the grizzled veteran on the offensive side.
That's funny. If we based it entirely on that...we wouldn't of taken an Andre Dillard. My argument was that you take numbers...and the Ty Sambrailo's will shake out. It's pretty much what Leach did. You'll get some guys with some Pac 12 offers and some only offered by Big Sky schools and maybe San Jose State, San Diego State, Colorado State, Utah State , Nevada. Pick the best athletes with size and offer 2 or 3. That's how the argument went and we went back and forth.
The argument has shifted. I absolutely agree you take numbers...now. But there was a huge shift in 2012 from 1979 when I started watching the Cougs to 2012. Different times. And it was those years you got really penalized if you made a mistake on the oline.
I didn't care if they had a kid evaluated as a Pac 12 player but was seen as a Big Sky player. Matt Storm early 90's, Dahl in 2012. But if the staff had them evaluated as a Big Sky talent you don't suck up the roster space.
And if we are being honest in terms of who panned out, Leach could have recruited three a year, and because of his system and because of the beach he avoided injuries. How many kids really played in 13/14/15/16/17/18 and 19?
I would argue we had 7 players. And the starters played 95% of the minutes. Compare that to 2008, the starters missed a ton of time.
However, they were the best of 16-19 instead of the best 7 of 7. Your main argument was that you don't take a Sambrailo because then you're competing against Colorado State fro players.
I apologize for my out of body experience. When was Sambrailo recruited by CSU?
I never had a problem with us recruiting players from what is considered a lesser conference .
My issue was prior to 2012. My issue of WSU didn’t feel a CSU player was a pac 10 player you don’t reach for that player.
Just for grins and giggles.
2012: Sale, Dotson, Middleton, Flor, Tuivaiae, Salmonson.
Middleton was solid, Salmonson started his senior year, Flor played some but got beat out. 3 of 6
2013: Madison, Sorenson, O'Connell, Seydell, Meyer, Freeman
Probably the best OL group in school history. Seydell helped some as well. Meyer washed out but started for Eastern.
2014: Dillard, Krepsz, Evers
Only took three this year. Would have been a awful year had Dillard not been an absolute stud. Krepsz went on to be a good one at Nevada. Evers was a bust.
2015: Perrott, Osur-Myers, Bigge Duran, Joseph Price.
Another group that didn't produce. Osur-Myers was a back up. No one else panned out. Put pressure on future classes to plug holes.
2016: Mauigoa, Ryan, Watson, Haangana, King, Gaisoa
Four of these 6 contributed. Plenty of depth established. At the time Watson, Ryan, King and Gaisoa seemed like reaches. Only half panned out.
2017: Lucas, Valencia, Nathaniel, Kuzmack
Another class with a couple of big time contributors and two busts.
2018: Beresford, McDonald, Mayginnes, Forbes, Riley, and Kingston.
Two have contributed so far and it wasn't the two you would have guessed on signing day.
2019: Utschinski, Fifita, Gomness, Price,
Too early to tell but Fifita might be a great one before all is said and done. Gomness has drawn a lot of praise. Price and Utschinski have some work to do.
Won't even comment on the 2020 class since they haven't been doing anything other than lifting weights.
Looks like about half the OL recruits wash out. But not recruiting 4-6 a year could easily lead to problems because none of our recruits come in as sure things.
2012: Sale, Dotson, Middleton, Flor, Tuivaiae, Salmonson.
Middleton was solid, Salmonson started his senior year, Flor played some but got beat out. 3 of 6
2013: Madison, Sorenson, O'Connell, Seydell, Meyer, Freeman
Probably the best OL group in school history. Seydell helped some as well. Meyer washed out but started for Eastern.
2014: Dillard, Krepsz, Evers
Only took three this year. Would have been a awful year had Dillard not been an absolute stud. Krepsz went on to be a good one at Nevada. Evers was a bust.
2015: Perrott, Osur-Myers, Bigge Duran, Joseph Price.
Another group that didn't produce. Osur-Myers was a back up. No one else panned out. Put pressure on future classes to plug holes.
2016: Mauigoa, Ryan, Watson, Haangana, King, Gaisoa
Four of these 6 contributed. Plenty of depth established. At the time Watson, Ryan, King and Gaisoa seemed like reaches. Only half panned out.
2017: Lucas, Valencia, Nathaniel, Kuzmack
Another class with a couple of big time contributors and two busts.
2018: Beresford, McDonald, Mayginnes, Forbes, Riley, and Kingston.
Two have contributed so far and it wasn't the two you would have guessed on signing day.
2019: Utschinski, Fifita, Gomness, Price,
Too early to tell but Fifita might be a great one before all is said and done. Gomness has drawn a lot of praise. Price and Utschinski have some work to do.
Won't even comment on the 2020 class since they haven't been doing anything other than lifting weights.
Looks like about half the OL recruits wash out. But not recruiting 4-6 a year could easily lead to problems because none of our recruits come in as sure things.
So much depends on a coach's ability to evaluate. As mentioned by others, schools that get 4 star recruits are less likely to have busts and get away with fewer guys than WSU can. Still, we don't have to have two future starters in every recruiting class and we definitely don't need three. We do need two future starters in most years but not every year. I think it's good for us to average four recruits per year, but six recruits should only be taken when you really, really don't like the guys you are stuck with and you don't expect most of them to be worthwhile.
It doesnt matter if the kid is Big Sky talent or not. Your reality is your reality. You have to play 5 kids. You cannot take another linebacker when you need OL. You cannot kick the can down the road to next year. If you cant get a P5 kid this year, what makes you think you’re gonna get one the next year? You get the best kids you can at the positions you need.
I maintain that the type of pure protection olinemen that
Are you suggested PW's staff didn't try? Traitor!!
It's a spaghetti against the wall situation. Some of the interesting kids you bring in get home sick and leave, some don't have the drive to put on the necessary weight/muscle, others do something stupid and get booted, and some are misevaluations. It's important to remember that you don't know who is going to make it or not which makes this a quantity thing. Do we take someone like Cole Madison or Ma'aka Fifita if we aren't taking so many lineman? What about Liam Ryan or Josh Watson?
I know for a fact the previous strength and conditioning staff was able to set pretty aggressive goals for the line because everyone knew if they didn't do the work, they would be left in the dust. Several interesting lineman didn't pan out because of this stuff. I'm glad we weren't counting on those guys by under recruiting.
Both the run and shoot and Air Raid fall apart without the necessary blocking up front. Leach knew, and hopefully Rolo agrees, that the downside of poor line play greatly outweighs the cost of an extra scholarship a year on a lineman.
It is a high impact position. As a WR you may not get tackled but 5-10 times per game. You may only really block on 20 snaps. You spend a lot of plays essentially running wind sprints. Not so for the OL. You are most likely gonna contact someone on every snap. Kids get hurt.
Kids flunk out, drunk out, drug out, never pan out... If you want to end with numbers you have to start with numbers.
How you can sign 5 WRs in a class when you only play 4 at a time.... while taking 2 OL in a class when you have to play 5 on every snap is beyond me. Wanna tell yourself you signed more OL the year before and those kids get another season? Fine. Same goes for WR. Rolo has signed 9 WRs in 2 classes to play 4 positions and signed 7 OL in 2 classes to play 5 positions. Why TF would you sign more than a 2 deep at WR but barely cover your starting 5 needed for a position that is the engine of the offense??? No blocking, no offense. The end.
Im not impressed. Ive seen this before at WSU and it ended poorly. I have seen nothing to change my mind that it won’t end poorly again.
Y'all keep bitching about this class but it's already been discussed that all of our freshmen from last year get to keep their eligibility. There's no need to get a bunch of new bodies this year. Anyone we get at any position is a bonus. We need to worry more about filling actual holes instead of worrying about some number that people think is important but really isn't.
If we have only two recruits next year....complain then.
I think the same as you. One year, this year, when everyone can come back, I don't see an issue. If this becomes a pattern, then yes, complain like hell.
The same people complaining about the lack of offensive lineman would be the same people complaining why didn't Rolo fix the DL, or LB's or DB's the next few seasons.
The O-line is where games are won & lost. Taking too many O-linemen is always best.
Ive seen plenty of games won and lost by kickers. Having 4 kickers on your roster does nothing to solve this. Same with having 30 linemen. They have plenty with all of the Covid RS. Not a concern.
Balance matters. Unless you think 12 DL in 2 classes is good. Or 9 WRs in 2 classes.
At some point the roster has to balance out. I understand overall numbers at a position. I also understand too many or too few kids in a class doesnt help either.
WSU isnt a school that can f&ck up the roster and win games. We all saw what happens when that occurs.
You’re right balance is good. And 12 DL in 2 classes is a good thing if you only have a couple of pac12 DLine men on your roster who can play. I’d agree with you that you don’t want to make it a habit of only recruiting 2 OLinemen, but let’s say you had 4 Covid redshirts...you basically have 6 linemen in this class then. I think they’re managing the roster pretty well. You’re going to lose some dudes next year on the OLine though so I’d expect 4-5 in that class.
I suggest that they didn't know if they were trying or not, and their effort level was below that of the competition.
12 guys in 2 yrs to play 4 positions is questionable. Kids that cant play need to move on or your staff needs to recruit and evaluate better.
Overloading other positions but then poo pooing another that doesnt have numbers is ridiculous.
If there were ever a time roster management was crucial, this is it. Telling yourself a bullshit story to justify it will come back to haunt you.
There are days where you prove that you just don't give a crap about reality and want to stick to your argument. If you look at our roster instead of just saying the same thing over and over again, you'd know that we have four kids that redshirted last year that can redshirt again. If Kylany gets to keep his redshirt, we have five. If we only get the two guys we signed, that means we could have six to seven guys scheduled to graduate in 2025. Some will undoubtedly wash out but your handwringing and lectures about class balance are dumb this year. It isn't a bad thing if we get another OL in this class, but our future success isn't hampered by having only two guys this year......only because of the COVID rules. We all agree with you that 2 OL in a regular year is a very bad thing.
No it’s telling me that 2+4 =6. If you feel better telling everyone that 2+4 = 2, knock yourself out.
I agree, 2 ol is a bad precedent to set, 4 minimum every year and preferable 5 or 6
I just saw that Texas State hasnt signed any high school kids. Theyre essentially saying their 2020 class is now their 2021 class. They have only signed transfers.
Also, these are the numbers for the Pac 12...
Oregon 23
SC 22
WSU 21
Cal 19
Utah, UCLA, Colorado, Arizona 18
Stanford 16
uw 15
ASU 14
OSU 11
Could be some transfers signed but not added. Could be some more HS kids signed but not added. These were the numbers when I looked. I have never seen a year with so few kids signed to Pac 12 teams.
Also, these are the numbers for the Pac 12...
Oregon 23
SC 22
WSU 21
Cal 19
Utah, UCLA, Colorado, Arizona 18
Stanford 16
uw 15
ASU 14
OSU 11
Could be some transfers signed but not added. Could be some more HS kids signed but not added. These were the numbers when I looked. I have never seen a year with so few kids signed to Pac 12 teams.
