Wtf are you on about?
Are YOU man enough to admit when you're wrong? You said the article didn't exist - it does.
2020 class keeps getting better
- Thread starter etowncoug
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Are YOU man enough to admit when you're wrong? You said the article didn't exist - it does.
Wait, what am I admitting to be wrong about? You said we signed 3 5 star players in '99. We didn't. You said we signed a 5 star DB. Who was that? Trufant? Because if it was Trufant you're wrong, he was a 2 star. He had zero offers, the under the raider guy that WSU thrives with, like let me think, Andre Dillard. I said that '99 was a great class, but it was the exception, not the norm. Price's classes weren't all that great after that, we developed really well, but we weren't signing top 3 classes that you so wish Leach to sign. Similiar to what Leach does. You also called BS on an actual article that was given to you. So again, what am I wrong about? The '99 class was an anomaly compared to any other classes here. If there is anybody wrong here, it's you, but I don't expect you to be man enough to admit it.
Tell me about these recruiting advantages Leach has over Price? And if you're going to use the FOB, you can put that one back in your pocket because all the FOB did was keep us from falling even further behind the other schools, which does not make it an advantage.
10 years of experience of a upper middle of the road D 1 schools in Tech. He had a reputation of being one of the top 15 coaches in the country. That alone should help him on the recruiting trail .
mike Price came from Weber State. We should see several trufants on this team . We should see an Erik Coleman . We should see Paymah and David. We should see a Torey Hunter.
We're seeing an offensive lineman go in the first round. We're seeing two QBs taken back to back, with the possibility of a third. We're seeing safeties taken in the draft.
Different coaches can construct different teams in different ways. If that makes your head hurt, drink more.
Upper middle of the road? You kidding me? In the 20 years prior to Leach arriving, TT mustered two AP T25 rankings with a 23 and a 19. Leach had 5 of 10 seasons with an AP T25 ranking, averaging 19th. Price had 5 of 14 seasons ranked in the T25, averaging 13th. A bit of a dropoff in terms of total seasons finishing ranked, but Price had higher successes in a superior conference. So no, Leach is not some messiah that should have 5-star recruits begging to play for him.
Bit of a nit pick as well but I thought the UW and others came in late with Trufant after a state all-star game where he played db. I believe Price/WSU always saw him as a db while most others saw him as a running back that didn't project to the next level.
Wow...he is a top 15 coach. Price was not. Leach should at this point getting the 99 class in the door.
Nobody's disputing he's a good coach, but if you want to use his resume at T-T vs Price's at WSU, you're out to lunch. Why do you think Alabama tried to hire Price--because he was a fun guy to go to strip clubs with?
1999 was the year Neuheisel took over. Trufant waited it out for a uw offer, but they eventually told him good luck with your college career. His only offers were WSU and Idaho.
I said, cant find it on google, so put up or shut up, You put up, good job, so I shut up! How about you and the class of 99?
I'm not involved in your recruiting debate, just jumped in about the SI article. Sorry
Hmmm....Let me understand this. Your expectation of a top 15 year coach who now has 19 years coaching major college football with a guy who netted the class in 99 off 10 years of D1 football, 92, 94, and 97 the winning seasons vs Mike Leach?
Recruiting at WSU is a daily thing, like brushing your teeth. Mike Leach tends to hire cerebral guys like himself. Eric Morris, Clay McGuire, Graham H and others. Where are the recruiters?
Pat Ruel in 2007 said something very interesting about the guy who followed Doba. he needs to have two sold coordinators, and 5 recruiters. Who is this staff's recruiters? There best classes were the first two ones.
Do you believe we have good division 1 DB's for example?
Well they do construct them in different ways, that is for sure. Price tended early to recruit a top end QB that was either the first or second pick in the draft. Somehow he sprinkled in DB's, linebackers, and hit and miss on Dline.
If we are going to do better than be 3-6 in conference next year or the year after, we have to be able to keep UCLA under 60, ASU under 37 and stop teams on 3rd and none or longer.
I initially was referring to the class of 1990, the 5 star DB being Singor Mobley, the 5 star quarterback being Drew Bledsoe. Then people said Price never signed 3 five-star recruits. Because of age, I could not find any support for 1990. But there was support for 1999 in Williams, Shavies and Tupai, so I referenced that class in response. Then people claimed they weren’t 5-star guys, then I offered their top 100 nationally CVs in response. If I stated 1999 initially, it was a typo, I meant 1990, Bledsoe was a five-star QB, Kegel not. The five-star DT, I was referencing was Chad Eaton, I was wrong on that one, he was not in the 1990 class.
The 2002 class was also considered a top 25 class as well. So price had 3 top 25 classes, 1990, his first, 1999 and 2002 (some say top 30). The question is why can't Leach produce similar results?
Price was hit and miss everywhere. That's how one winning season every three years happens. He recruited one 1st pick and one second pick in fourteen years, a lot of nothing otherwise. You pound on Doba for recruiting JT Levenseller, who was never going to actually play QB, and somehow ignore that Price recruited Mencke coming off two Rose Bowls and putting two guys in the league.
Who considered the 2002 class top 25 or top 30? It was way too JC heavy for that kind of ranking.
I remember that issue. At one point, I had that article signed by each of the Fab5.
I stand corrected. I always used Scout's rankings back then. He was a 4 star there.
Going back to the "Leach can't recruit corners" well, huh? Such an odd take.
Yes, Mike Price recruited one specific position group better than Leach. How astounding.
I
I'll stack Leach's 2013 class up against any of them.
Isaac Brown
Josh Parrish
Josh Shavies
Champ Simmons (transferred to SC)
Tai Tupai
Jeremy Williams
Collin Henderson
Matt Kegal
Ira Davis
Drew Dunning
Al Genatone
Mike Shelford
Billy Knotts
Scott Lunde
Rien Long
Marcus Trufant
Ivan McLennan
Vince Mayle
Peyton Pelleur
Riley Sorenson
Isaac Dotson
Marcellus Pippins
River Cracraft
Gerard Wicks
Cody O'Connell
Daniel Ekuale
Jamal Morrow
Cole Madison
Nick Begg
Dylan Hanser
Erik Powell
Luke Falk
Robert Lewis
I'll stack Leach's 2013 class up against any of them.
Isaac Brown
Josh Parrish
Josh Shavies
Champ Simmons (transferred to SC)
Tai Tupai
Jeremy Williams
Collin Henderson
Matt Kegal
Ira Davis
Drew Dunning
Al Genatone
Mike Shelford
Billy Knotts
Scott Lunde
Rien Long
Marcus Trufant
Ivan McLennan
Vince Mayle
Peyton Pelleur
Riley Sorenson
Isaac Dotson
Marcellus Pippins
River Cracraft
Gerard Wicks
Cody O'Connell
Daniel Ekuale
Jamal Morrow
Cole Madison
Nick Begg
Dylan Hanser
Erik Powell
Luke Falk
Robert Lewis
Like shooting fish in a barrel. Repeat after me, if only Mike Leach could recruit like Mike Price, ... we'd own the conference.
https://washingtonstate.rivals.com/commitments/football/2002
Leaches advantages are: great name recognition, sustained success, 100+ million dollars in facilities upgrades, a far weaker conference to compete in and recruit against, facilities second, only to Oregon, a supportive AD and administration. Geez a prime reason Price looked to leave was because Sterk and Rawlins wouldn’t consider giving his staff two-year contracts, and have you ever been in the old locker and training rooms?
In fairness to Leach, Price had advantages of his own. He was a member of the Washington/Everett coaching fraternity and he had many years of cultivating access with coaches around the state, well before he came to WSU. Remember, Washington was the California of the Big Sky, back then. He also developed the Father Flanagan persona, so he was on virtually every in-state coaches speed dial, for prospect alerts, particularly those with a “problem.”
I have to ask, if you can look at it objectively at all, can Mike Leach do anything different or better, to get him and us over the Husky/championship hurdle? All I’m saying is recruiting is the issue, and he needs to spend the off-season figure out how he can work the recruiting angle better. If you are of the belief that WSU just can’t win championships, and “also ran” bowls is the best we can expect, fair enough, but I disagree with you.
Personally, I'll takes players that had me BBQing burgers on a golf course in Pasadena on New years day. But I'm bias towards actually winning championships.
Did I mention that Champ went on to start at LB for USC on a national championship team? Man that 2002 team was deep and so so talented, we won without a stud like that. Also what about Milt and Marcus, show them some love to, they are the reason for the Goper’s back shoulder throws. They beat the crap out of opposing DBs.
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When Leach was hired, a lot of the Tech fans warned us "recruiting is not his strongest suit".
Now, he limited that well initially by having guys like Sala'vea, Mastro & Simmons on the staff. Now that those guys have left, it's left a bit of a void in recruiting IMO.
Leach seems to bring guys in from outside the region when there are vacancies; Spurrier, Brock, Bellatoni, Phelps. I think this has hurt recruiting. I'd love to see him fill the DC spot (and any other position coach vacancies necessary) with guys with some Southern CA recruiting experience.
The staff needs more recruiting punch, especially in SoCal. McBath is at least pulling some guys. Shaver...?
I could be totally wrong, but my impression was that Mr. Speed D was the mover and shaker on defensive recruiting after Joe left.
We just need someone on the defensive side of the ball who A) give a sh!t and B) can and will recruit their ass off for us. Because the truth is that CML doesn't give two shits in a bucket about defense, except to can people when its bad.
We need a natural leader to be our DC who can either close deals or open the door for his asst to close deals.
Point by point of advantages relative to Price (as was your original assertion):
name recognition: Price had coached the team to two rose bowls, had won a conference championship, and was hired away by Alabama. The way I see it, Leach does not have an advantage over Price in that department.
Sustained success: Leach has won more consistently with fewer lows and fewer highs; as a potential recruit, I don't know that that is a more enticing selling point over the possibility of going to the Rose Bowl--I'd say a good chunk of kids would rather have a shot at the big time bowl vs an 8-4 type season with a trip to El Paso or San Diego. I would say this one is neutral, not an advantage.
Facilities: yes, we have spent money on facilities, as has virtually every other team in the P12, and no our facilities are not second to only Oregon. SC has a 70 million FOB, UW dropped 280 million on their stadium and built a FOB and indoor practice facility, OSU has a brand new FOB, Cal dropped 320 million to upgrade their facilities, Arizona has a 72 million facility, etc., etc.
We have the smallest stadium, in the most remote area with the worst weather in the Pac12. The closest city is Spokane, 60 miles away. Relative to Price's era, we're just barely keep our heads above water in the football arms race. So no advantage I can see here.
Weaker conference to recruit against: the fact the conference is not as competitive nationally now doesn't change the fact that a recruit still wants to go to a winning program like Oregon or Washington (who've both been in the playoffs recently) or a blue blood like SC, or simply a school with better weather (UCLA, Stanford, Arizona, ASU), academics (Stanford), or locations with population centers with more things to do (every school minus WSU). Again, not seeing any advantage here.
Supportive admin: I agree with this one, to a point. Leach earning 4 million is testament to the commitment to football by the admin, but the groundwork was laid by Floyd, not Schultz. I don't think Schultz is as fully committed to Leach and the football program as was Floyd, but it would seem that ship has sailed and he's more or less locked into it at this point.
I don't disagree that if Leach could start pulling in top 25 classes that we'd he'd be winning more and bigger games. But as we've seen with virtually every other coach, it's very difficult to have sustained recruiting success to Pullman. Instead of getting better recruits, Leach has squeezed more juice out of more average fruit. It is what it is--we can pine for the days of a good Price class every 3-4 years, or enjoy winning more than we lose just about every year.
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I will add that USC was in the crapper plenty during Price's tenure. Yes, Carroll's 2002 team was good, but that was really it. Doba was the one that faced the elite USC teams.
Yep, and in most instances the 4,5-star kid would rather go to the crappy blue blood school in SoCal than up to the outpost in Pullman.
This makes a lot of sense when you speculate why Claeys moved on.
Glad Cougar
You know you are struggling when you must denigrate the only coach to win us a championship in 90 years to defend Leach's recruiting. Are you having his baby or something?
it's important to see both the 10 years of liege and price in their historical context. Each has advantages and disadvantages the other didn't. The internet, ESPN, and the BCS / college football playoff have completely changed the playing field. We don't know how coach Mike Price would have done with the internet broadcasting the gems he uncovered for bigger schools to poach. We don't know how strong the conference would have been perceived if ESPN had been pushing a narrative that the Pac-12 is awful all the time. We don't know how Rose Bowl trips would have been viewed if they were seeing as a consolation prize for teams that weren't good enough to make the playoff.
I would argue maybe the biggest advantage for Price if he was in this era is the early signing period . His eye for talent and having people come in late and taking some kids that turned out to be very good would have to make a commitment earlier . If they don’t sign early they are hedging shopping for something different .
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