Abandoning allies
- Thread starter Flatlandcoug
- Start date
By raising the example of Japan and Germany as comparisons, you give two examples of why the hard line is unlikely to work. Germany and Japan were not going to give up until the specter of complete annihilation was either on top of them or just around the corner. Neither was interested in any negotiation until they’d been beaten senseless, and even then Japan wanted negotiations on their terms. Russia and Putin are the same, and in the face off with them, the potential for multinational armed opposition and defeat isn’t realistic. Putin knows that the US and EU are not going to commit troops. That only leaves some flavor of appeasement.
In the football analogy, I’d
Heard Rubio on some drone-on radio show on the way back from skiing today.
Starmer is in charge of the European effort to guarantee Ukraines security and will back it up with troops and treasure. Zelenskyy was there in a t-shirt looking like a homeless dude with his hand out for a handout as always walking away with a loan (last week that was bad)
Trudeau is pledging Canadian troops. Sounds like everybody’s bringing something to the party, except Putin still no word on whether he was invited or has anything to say yet . Anyway, sounds like we’re out and free to turn out immediate attention to China, where we should.
Starmer is in charge of the European effort to guarantee Ukraines security and will back it up with troops and treasure. Zelenskyy was there in a t-shirt looking like a homeless dude with his hand out for a handout as always walking away with a loan (last week that was bad)
Trudeau is pledging Canadian troops. Sounds like everybody’s bringing something to the party, except Putin still no word on whether he was invited or has anything to say yet . Anyway, sounds like we’re out and free to turn out immediate attention to China, where we should.
USAID has done a tremendous amount of good in the world. Have there been mistakes made? It sure looks like it. Do you know for a fact that there weren't strategic reasons for some of their programs and actions? No...you don't. None of us know why some things were done. Maybe there were some bad and corrupt people in the organization but I would prefer that we go after bad actors than destroy the whole thing.
It's important to note that DOGE receipts have been reduced to less than $10 billion once the lies and bullsh!t were exposed. Meanwhile, the dear leader and the MAGA world is proposing a $500 billion per year tax cuts for the rich. You're being played for a fool and can't even see it.
Even if there is fraud and waste in USAID, it would have been better and more productive to go after it strategically.
So, you’re agreeing that USAID is not the benevolent agency as you were trying to portray it.
You also know that Ukraine came to Trump with the mineral deal, right? Sounds like Zelenskyy is ready to sign, again. This is like the fourth time. Maybe the fourth time is the charm.
Remember McStain boasting about regime change of the democratically elected leadership in Ukraine?
You mean USAID funds sent to EcoHealth Alliance which then sent the funds to….
Well, you know the rest.
The examples given under this definition you linked by news outlets and journalists all use the term in the same fashion i did.Poor word choice. Saying the invasion was "unprovoked" is as wrong as saying the invasion was justified. We've been dinking around in Ukraine for 20+ years. Including a phone call between the US Ambassador to Ukraine and Victoria Nuland where they are discussing what officials they want in Ukraine's new government.
: occurring without any identifiable cause or justification : not provoked
Definition of UNPROVOKED
occurring without any identifiable cause or justification : not provoked… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
Is it you position that Ukraine did something to justify Russia's invasion, the bombing of cities and the killing of up to 100,000 Ukrainians?
You seem to be trying to provide cover for Russia and their actions. Why is this?
It's my "position" that the term you used is a poor word choice. You used it. I did not. As previously stated, "unprovoked" is as inaccurate as "justified."
You should use terms more carefully. Perhaps "wrongful" is what you meant. Or perhaps you meant something else. What did you mean now that you have seen the definition of unprovoked? You drink propaganda like kool-aid, and obviously don't realize it.
I'm fine with the choice. It's fits nicely with the actions taken and consequences of those actions regarding disputes between nations, particularly these two.
So you believe Russia was justified and wasn't wrong in its invasion of Ukraine, correct?
All these examples come.from your supplied link:
The Biden administration, in conjunction with the U.S.'s European allies, made clear that Russia violated international laws by launching an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine three years ago.
—Tom Rogers, Newsweek, 21 Feb. 2025
In a major victory for Moscow even before Ukraine talks have begun, the U.S. president has abandoned a core element of the allied response to Mr. Putin’s unprovoked war: isolating Russia and excluding it from the top table of world diplomacy.
—Ned Temko, The Christian Science Monitor, 20 Feb. 2025
Ukraine and its allies denounced it as an unprovoked act of aggression.
—Hanna Arhirova, Chicago Tribune, 19 Feb. 2025
The moments in nature aren’t simply interludes in the film but subtly communicate all that is being lost to Russia’s unprovoked aggression.
—Matthew Carey, Deadline, 16 Feb. 2025
The Biden administration, in conjunction with the U.S.'s European allies, made clear that Russia violated international laws by launching an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine three years ago.
—Tom Rogers, Newsweek, 21 Feb. 2025
In a major victory for Moscow even before Ukraine talks have begun, the U.S. president has abandoned a core element of the allied response to Mr. Putin’s unprovoked war: isolating Russia and excluding it from the top table of world diplomacy.
—Ned Temko, The Christian Science Monitor, 20 Feb. 2025
Ukraine and its allies denounced it as an unprovoked act of aggression.
—Hanna Arhirova, Chicago Tribune, 19 Feb. 2025
The moments in nature aren’t simply interludes in the film but subtly communicate all that is being lost to Russia’s unprovoked aggression.
—Matthew Carey, Deadline, 16 Feb. 2025
Wrong. More poor word choices. You should use the dictionary.
What part of "As previously stated, "unprovoked" is as inaccurate as "justified." di you misunderstand?
Do you know how many ceasefires Ukraine has agreed to w Russia prior to their invasion? At the bottom lies this…what’s the point of negotiating with them when they have no intention of honoring whatever is agreed upon. Europe understands this. Guaranteed US intelligence and US military leaders do as well. Russia wants us out. Trump is obliging. Ask yourself why.
You didn't read any of those did you? I'm not responsible for the authors or editors poor word choices, or your laziness. Here is one that you may want to read.
The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace — Jeffrey D. Sachs
By recognizing that the question of NATO enlargement is at the center of this war, we understand why U.S. weaponry will not end this war. Only diplomatic efforts can do that. JEFFREY D. SACHS May 23, 2023 Common Dreams George Orwell wrote in 1984 that "Who controls the past control
www.jeffsachs.org
Welp, as if we didn’t know already, we know who you are now. “McStain”? Disrespecting a distinguished war vet because he was a R and Trump insulted him? Get F’d Uber you are a pile of shit.
I answered your question. Why is asking irrelevant questions or those that have already been answered your go-to when you are wrong. Cute quips are better Gibbons, bring those back!
Funny, isn’t it? He was the republicans chosen leader in 2008, but now he’s not republican enough. Pretty confident it isn’t because he changed.
You losing it Gibbs? My memory admittedly sucks but I distinctly remember a lengthy dialogue I started about football teams coming back from being down. I’m not sure someone who would curl up in the fetal position upon his home being intruded is the guy who’s going to demand an exact response, so I’ll let you read between the lines.
Indulge me.......
In 1863, with Lee advancing into Pennsylvania and hundreds of thousands of dead in the prior two years, was the US losing?
In early 1944, would you have said that the Allies were losing World War II?
In September 1950, communist forces in Korea had taken over 90% of the country and nearly won the war. By the end of November 1950, US and South Korean forces had counterattacked and controlled 90% of the country. At either of those points, would you have said that one side was losing?
There is always an ebb and flow to extended conflicts. To pick a point in time and say, "Are they losing" is stupid. There eventually comes a point where it's obvious that both sides have reached a stalemate and further conflict is meaningless. We might be reaching that point in Ukraine. That said, we've spend the last three years telling Ukraine to fight with one hand tied behind their back because we wouldn't allow them to use the full offensive capabilities of the weapons we were giving them. The truth is that Russia's economy is starting to fail and if we really wanted to see Ukraine win, we could bury Russia quickly with additional weapons and financial support to Ukraine.
Now, because Putin is a despot, there is a danger in starting World War III if we were to see him lose too quickly. That said, history shows that appeasement never works and accepting a cease fire that neither side really believes in never works. Hell, your dear leader's ceasefire in Gaza is in the middle of falling apart right now. So, you can keep pretending that you care about dead Ukrainians or whatever other bullsh!t stories that Trump feeds you....but the reality is that if we were still the great country that we used to be, we would not be seeing the bullsh!t that happened on Friday and you would not be making posts like you are a Russian bot.
So reading between the lines is necessary and you decline to answer a direct question.
When you know your bullshit rationale has been destroyed, this is all you got left Flat. Like I said, clockwork. They need to recruit some better intellectuals Gibbs can’t keep it together anymore for Larry, Moe, and Curly MAGA.
And yet here you are defending Putin trying to depose Zelensky?
What is going on inside your head? How can you not see that McCain was talking about a peaceful transition of power through a democratic voting process and encouraging freedom in Ukraine? Are you truly that deluded that you can't see the difference? The former Ukrainian government was truly corrupt and needed to go. That you try to pretend that Zelensky was part of that is just f#cking weird and mind blowing.
Based on what I'm reading from you, the US should celebrate despots around the world that use violence and sham elections to retain their power simply because they are "elected"? By your logic, if the Democrats had won the 2024 election by cheating...you'd be cool with that because they were elected? Or as usual, do you pivot constantly to whatever fits your dear leaders agenda that day?
I’m not surprised your voices in your head are being unruly. You have quite an active imagination.
No worries. Starmer took the lead and Trudeau pledged Canada’s military might with boots on the ground in support. Europe’s got this.
Well I did. That's why I posted them for you to read as well. I do appreciate your link to Jeffrey Sachs. He seems to be claiming the west provoked russia into attacking. Do you agree with that?You didn't read any of those did you? I'm not responsible for the authors or editors poor word choices, or your laziness. Here is one that you may want to read.
The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace — Jeffrey D. Sachs
By recognizing that the question of NATO enlargement is at the center of this war, we understand why U.S. weaponry will not end this war. Only diplomatic efforts can do that. JEFFREY D. SACHS May 23, 2023 Common Dreams George Orwell wrote in 1984 that "Who controls the past control
And you didnt answer my question, (supposing we grant your position that russia was provoked) was russia justified and/or wrong to launch their military assault?
Also, ere's a link that disputes this position. It's just one of several I could link.
We Never Provoked Putin Into Attacking Ukraine: Here’s The Truth
For decades, Washington has worried more about saving Russia than helping countries Moscow attacked. Nato stayed passive in the face of Putin's repeated provocations.
www.forbes.com
Even pur own current defense sec..refused to agree that russia was provoked...saying "its complicated'". Pretty sure we both agree with him there. Taihtsat
So we’re ok with a loser leading an insurrection because he lost an election, but we’re not ok with someone advocating for a peaceful transition of power in another country? lol, ok.
I’d just like to point out you own this Fcktard Gibbs. He’s on your team.
I wasn’t aware Ukraine had conducted elections.
All I can find is how Zelenskyy suspended elections.
All I can find is how Zelenskyy suspended elections.
I’d like to see that.
Everything I see is that the Ukrainian constitution and parliament made that call.
Similar threads
