Andre Dillard Spokesman article

[Brent H.]

Anyone read Thorpe's piece in Dillard? The staff started looking for Dahl's replacement at the end of his sophomore year. They decided on a 6'5" hs kid from Woodenville, WA at the time, who was 240 pounds at the time. It's really interesting to see that they could see who being a starting LT PAC-12 at the time. His best offer was Idaho and after what I saw from him while Dahl was out I think he has the ability to be one of the best linemen ever. He's so quick. It's a good article, he's put on 50 pounds in two years at Wazzu without sacrificing speed, which was a point of emphasis for the staff. If he keeps growing, where is he going to be at by his senior year?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/26/cougars-prepare-andre-dillard-as-capable-replaceme/

I know this stuff has to make Biggs happy.

 

[dgibbons]

Anyone read Thorpe's piece in Dillard? The staff started looking for Dahl's replacement at the end of his sophomore year. They decided on a 6'5" hs kid from Woodenville, WA at the time, who was 240 pounds at the time. It's really interesting to see that they could see who being a starting LT PAC-12 at the time. His best offer was Idaho and after what I saw from him while Dahl was out I think he has the ability to be one of the best linemen ever. He's so quick. It's a good article, he's put on 50 pounds in two years at Wazzu without sacrificing speed, which was a point of emphasis for the staff. If he keeps growing, where is he going to be at by his senior year?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/26/cougars-prepare-andre-dillard-as-capable-replaceme/

I know this stuff has to make Biggs happy.

Biggs isn't the only one.

 

[BiggsCoug]

It is simply amazing to me how teams pass on 6'5" or taller kids that are skinny.

Look at how many kids go to college and gain 20 pounds per year just drinking beer and eating pizza? Girls at the cafe and a self serve ice cream machine? Easy 20. How a college coach can look at a 17 year old boy at 6'5" 240-250 and not think he'll be 280 in 18 months is ridiculous. The fact that so many kids are passed on is mindnumbing. WSU had a coach that took a team to the Rose Bowl with tall skinny kids from high schools....

 

[Coug1990]

It is simply amazing to me how teams pass on 6'5" or taller kids that are skinny.

Look at how many kids go to college and gain 20 pounds per year just drinking beer and eating pizza? Girls at the cafe and a self serve ice cream machine? Easy 20. How a college coach can look at a 17 year old boy at 6'5" 240-250 and not think he'll be 280 in 18 months is ridiculous. The fact that so many kids are passed on is mindnumbing. WSU had a coach that took a team to the Rose Bowl with tall skinny kids from high schools....

I have written this before. While this staff is good at recruiting, I believe it is better at evaluation. Look at Mata'afa, Molton, Madison, Dillard, etc. All fairly lightly recruited players that are big time players.

 

[YakiCoug]

Anyone read Thorpe's piece in Dillard? The staff started looking for Dahl's replacement at the end of his sophomore year. They decided on a 6'5" hs kid from Woodenville, WA at the time, who was 240 pounds at the time. It's really interesting to see that they could see who being a starting LT PAC-12 at the time. His best offer was Idaho and after what I saw from him while Dahl was out I think he has the ability to be one of the best linemen ever. He's so quick. It's a good article, he's put on 50 pounds in two years at Wazzu without sacrificing speed, which was a point of emphasis for the staff. If he keeps growing, where is he going to be at by his senior year?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/26/cougars-prepare-andre-dillard-as-capable-replaceme/

I know this stuff has to make Biggs happy.

You can see him power clean on the official website. Pretty impressive.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The West Coast is the most poorly recruited and evaluated region in the nation. If you don't have the grades to get in, no one in Northern California stays home to play PAC 12 ball. If you're not one of the top players in Southern California, you have to leave cause SC and UCLA are only gonna take so many guys. If you're not a super star or brainiac, odds are no PAC 12 schools in California are recruiting you if you live in WA, OR, ID, UT, NV, AZ, etc. So those kids can cut a third of the league off the list.

There are a lot of guys that get overlooked, passed over or never found. What's sad is that there are probably a legit 25 big bodies in WA and OR every year. Can they move their feet? No idea. But you can't coach 6'6" and all of them have their best football ahead of them.

After 3 years of weights, coaching and a training table, the 6'6" 240 pounder in high school is unrecognizable. Is he the guy you need? No clue, but you'd better have him in the system to find out.

 

[CougEd]

The West Coast is the most poorly recruited and evaluated region in the nation. If you don't have the grades to get in, no one in Northern California stays home to play PAC 12 ball. If you're not one of the top players in Southern California, you have to leave cause SC and UCLA are only gonna take so many guys. If you're not a super star or brainiac, odds are no PAC 12 schools in California are recruiting you if you live in WA, OR, ID, UT, NV, AZ, etc. So those kids can cut a third of the league off the list.

There are a lot of guys that get overlooked, passed over or never found. What's sad is that there are probably a legit 25 big bodies in WA and OR every year. Can they move their feet? No idea. But you can't coach 6'6" and all of them have their best football ahead of them.

After 3 years of weights, coaching and a training table, the 6'6" 240 pounder in high school is unrecognizable. Is he the guy you need? No clue, but you'd better have him in the system to find out.

Why don't they? Cause they aren't immediately ready. Garnett or Dillard? My guess is most schools don't want to take a project because what happens if the skinny kid just can't put on weight. Mitch Dillard was this great looking athlete in the mid 80's. The kid didn't put on any weight. He came in like Millard and Williams, a TE, and he never had a position in college because he didn't put on weight. His son, well clearly he can. Same reason WSU was the only D1 school to offer Dahl. He was a project, and clearly coaches don't have enough time to take a project, water the plant and let it grow.

 

[YakiCoug]

Why don't they? Cause they aren't immediately ready. Garnett or Dillard? My guess is most schools don't want to take a project because what happens if the skinny kid just can't put on weight. Mitch Dillard was this great looking athlete in the mid 80's. The kid didn't put on any weight. He came in like Millard and Williams, a TE, and he never had a position in college because he didn't put on weight. His son, well clearly he can. Same reason WSU was the only D1 school to offer Dahl. He was a project, and clearly coaches don't have enough time to take a project, water the plant and let it grow.

A vastly better weight-training facility. Better food. More food. Better coaching. It's not hard to figure out Dillard's transformation.

 

[CougEd]

A vastly better weight-training facility. Better food. More food. Better coaching. It's not hard to figure out Dillard's transformation.

Problem with that answer is others like Eric Williams were able to go from 210 to 275. Utley at 230 to 290. Plenty of examples.

 

[fingerdisco]

Problem with that answer is others like Eric Williams were able to go from 210 to 275. Utley at 230 to 290. Plenty of examples.

Maybe Williams could have gotten up to 290, and Utley to 315 under a better nutrition and lifting regimen?

 

[Coug1990]

Problem with that answer is others like Eric Williams were able to go from 210 to 275. Utley at 230 to 290. Plenty of examples.

Which is anecdotal evidence, which in this case is not really evidence, but factoids.

 

[CougEd]

Maybe Williams could have gotten up to 290, and Utley to 315 under a better nutrition and lifting regimen?

And the point is?

 

[CougEd]

Which is anecdotal evidence, which in this case is not really evidence, but factoids.[/QUOTE
I suppose. But sure seems like both Mike Price and Jim Walden made a living out of taking TE body types and growing them into dlineman and OT's. But maybe it was simply luck and had nothing to do with their diet and weight training at the time.

Most coaches get blown out by year three, so they don't seem to have a lot of time to put weight on a guy, get him mature, and have him contribute and win. But maybe Biggs is on to something, that the Joe Dahl's of the world are vastly overlooked because people aren't good at their jobs.

 

[Coug1990]

Is this true? Most coaches only last three years?

 

[CougEd]

Is this true? Most coaches only last three years?

No. What it should have said is most coaches get blown out by the end of year three of a rebuild. The time they have to turn around a program is much less than it use to be. Year three is the crucial year of most coaches.

 

[fingerdisco]

And the point is?

Ummmm......I like tater tots?

 

[YakiCoug]

Problem with that answer is others like Eric Williams were able to go from 210 to 275. Utley at 230 to 290. Plenty of examples.

And plenty of steroid use, particularly in the early '80s through the '90s. Williams and Millard underwent quite a transformation their last two years.

 

[YakiCoug]

Which is anecdotal evidence, which in this case is not really evidence, but factoids.

But it is the stuff of circular reasoning and repEDitive drivel.

 

[CougEd]

Ummmm......I like tater tots?

With Ketchup? Interesting because they were "standard" size when all said and done. There weren't 315 pounders out there. Millard came in at 205. It was reported he was 275 when he was done. But lets say it is only a 60 pound gain. Joe Dahl came in at 240, and got up to 305. Is that a significant difference in weight gain?

But the point was there is a reason why teams don't get the 6'6" skinny kid. Takes too much time to get them ready, and sometimes you don't know if they will gain the weight.

Here is a question. Do you think Mike Leach if he was coaching would have offered Joe Dahl if Joe Dahl was coming out of high school right now at 240?

 

[Coug1990]

With Ketchup? Interesting because they were "standard" size when all said and done. There weren't 315 pounders out there. Millard came in at 205. It was reported he was 275 when he was done. But lets say it is only a 60 pound gain. Joe Dahl came in at 240, and got up to 305. Is that a significant difference in weight gain?

But the point was there is a reason why teams don't get the 6'6" skinny kid. Takes too much time to get them ready, and sometimes you don't know if they will gain the weight.

Here is a question. Do you think Mike Leach if he was coaching would have offered Joe Dahl if Joe Dahl was coming out of high school right now at 240?

He offered Dillard who was about that size. So, the answer is yes. What is more important to the coaches is projection. Does the player have the frame to put on weight? Does he have big shoulders? Wide hips? Etc.

 

[YakiCoug]

With Ketchup? Interesting because they were "standard" size when all said and done. There weren't 315 pounders out there. Millard came in at 205. It was reported he was 275 when he was done. But lets say it is only a 60 pound gain. Joe Dahl came in at 240, and got up to 305. Is that a significant difference in weight gain?

But the point was there is a reason why teams don't get the 6'6" skinny kid. Takes too much time to get them ready, and sometimes you don't know if they will gain the weight.

Here is a question. Do you think Mike Leach if he was coaching would have offered Joe Dahl if Joe Dahl was coming out of high school right now at 240?

He came in at 225. My sources?
Millard, Walden, and articles. Get your facts straight, challenging as that is for you.

 

[YakiCoug]

With Ketchup? Interesting because they were "standard" size when all said and done. There weren't 315 pounders out there. Millard came in at 205. It was reported he was 275 when he was done. But lets say it is only a 60 pound gain. Joe Dahl came in at 240, and got up to 305. Is that a significant difference in weight gain?

But the point was there is a reason why teams don't get the 6'6" skinny kid. Takes too much time to get them ready, and sometimes you don't know if they will gain the weight.

Here is a question. Do you think Mike Leach if he was coaching would have offered Joe Dahl if Joe Dahl was coming out of high school right now at 240?

Given the dearth of high school linemen signed during your hero's reign, how do you know he wouldn't have signed him? As you posted ed nauseam for two years, Leach was desperate enough to sign Niu Sale and Sam Jones, so why not Dahl? By the way, as yet another example of your repEDitive drivel, you have, once again, desperately resurrected the Dahl matter in yet another indirect defense of Wulff.
You really should see a shrink about your web obsessions, old guy. That, or try spending more time with Chris Ball.

 

[Brent H.]

With Ketchup? Interesting because they were "standard" size when all said and done. There weren't 315 pounders out there. Millard came in at 205. It was reported he was 275 when he was done. But lets say it is only a 60 pound gain. Joe Dahl came in at 240, and got up to 305. Is that a significant difference in weight gain?

But the point was there is a reason why teams don't get the 6'6" skinny kid. Takes too much time to get them ready, and sometimes you don't know if they will gain the weight.

Here is a question. Do you think Mike Leach if he was coaching would have offered Joe Dahl if Joe Dahl was coming out of high school right now at 240?

Yes

 

[Coug95man2]

Yes

Isn't CML offering more Olinemen than any coach in WSU history? Isn't he bringing in more Olinemen than any coach in WSU history?

And someone is thinking CML wouldn't offer a big kid whose only wish was to play for WSU? And example after example of CML offering kids that are tall but not hefty?

 

[dgibbons]

Yes

Madison is another example of a TE type body converted to OL.

 

[CougEd]

He came in at 225. My sources?
Millard, Walden, and articles. Get your facts straight, challenging as that is for you.

Interesting....you talked to Millard about his weight? Walden? Got it. Get me their number and next time I put down a weight and I am off 20 pounds I will make sure I call the source to make sure I have the correct number.

 

[CougEd]

Given the dearth of high school linemen signed during your hero's reign, how do you know he wouldn't have signed him? As you posted ed nauseam for two years, Leach was desperate enough to sign Niu Sale and Sam Jones, so why not Dahl? By the way, as yet another example of your repEDitive drivel, you have, once again, desperately resurrected the Dahl matter in yet another indirect defense of Wulff.
You really should see a shrink about your web obsessions, old guy. That, or try spending more time with Chris Ball.

Not sure I said he would or he wouldn't. I thought I asked a question. I brought up dahl because he was undersized and no other D1 offers, and answer the post Biggs put forth why these kids aren't getting looked at.

I know the point escapes you because you are so fixated on a guy who hasn't been here now going on 5 years. But my point was coaches seek more ready players, and have less time for physical development. IMO. I think that explains why teams ignore talented but undersized players.

And lack of size is exactly why Leach swung and unfortunately missed on Sale and Jones. He wanted BIG bodies right away.

Nick Begg has had a frame, 6 5 similar to that of Dahl coming out of high school. Why hasn't he put on weight?

Yes, Leach brought in Dillard, who was 6 5 and what 240? Now I didn't call Leach or read any articles so I think Dillard was 240 when he was recruited. So take that weight with a grain of salt I guess, but Leach will take a chance on a kid that needs time to develop.

Old guy....funny since you are older.

 

[SaveFerris]

Nick Begg has had a frame, 6 5 similar to that of Dahl coming out of high school. Why hasn't he put on weight?

Believe it's because Begg didn't and doesn't want to become an OLM. Most thought including myself that they would eventually move him to OL but he stuck at inside WR (or whatever). He's now moved to DL according to reports. Leach may have wanted to move Begg to OL but if the player doesn't then it's not forced. At least that's how it appears from my 3000 foot view.

 

[Coug1990]

Not sure I said he would or he wouldn't. I thought I asked a question. I brought up dahl because he was undersized and no other D1 offers, and answer the post Biggs put forth why these kids aren't getting looked at.

I know the point escapes you because you are so fixated on a guy who hasn't been here now going on 5 years. But my point was coaches seek more ready players, and have less time for physical development. IMO. I think that explains why teams ignore talented but undersized players.

And lack of size is exactly why Leach swung and unfortunately missed on Sale and Jones. He wanted BIG bodies right away.

Nick Begg has had a frame, 6 5 similar to that of Dahl coming out of high school. Why hasn't he put on weight?

Yes, Leach brought in Dillard, who was 6 5 and what 240? Now I didn't call Leach or read any articles so I think Dillard was 240 when he was recruited. So take that weight with a grain of salt I guess, but Leach will take a chance on a kid that needs time to develop.

Old guy....funny since you are older.

As SaveFerris wrote, Begg did not want to play OL. Dillard has started games in his second season out of high school. I guess that would be considered fast development.
When the coaches saw Dillard, they saw someone with good bloodlines that had good feet, long arms, and a frame that could put on a lot of weight. Coaches project all the time to what a player will grow into.

 

[YakiCoug]

Interesting....you talked to Millard about his weight? Walden? Got it. Get me their number and next time I put down a weight and I am off 20 pounds I will make sure I call the source to make sure I have the correct number.

Having trouble comprehending again, loan officer?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Isn't CML offering more Olinemen than any coach in WSU history? Isn't he bringing in more Olinemen than any coach in WSU history?

And someone is thinking CML wouldn't offer a big kid whose only wish was to play for WSU? And example after example of CML offering kids that are tall but not hefty?

Well, Leach didn't give Dahl a scholly directly from Montana, so no, I doubt he would have offered him one out of high school.

 

[YakiCoug]

Well, Leach didn't give Dahl a scholly directly from Montana, so no, I doubt he would have offered him one out of high school.

A scholly was always part of the plan.

 

[Coug1990]

Well, Leach didn't give Dahl a scholly directly from Montana, so no, I doubt he would have offered him one out of high school.

Honestly, we have no idea. Leach and his staff do not seem to worry about national rankings of players. They discovered Dillard not too far from the uw. He was about the same size as Dahl coming out of high school.

Leach and McGuire have said they did not know who Dahl was, nor should they have when they arrived at WSU. Dahl walked into the football office, told them who he was and asked if he could walk on. He was told yes. Right away during that first spring drills, they knew he was a good player. Perhaps they would have projected him enough to be a good player when he was in high school, as they did with Dillard.

But, none of us really know. What I personally believe is this staff are very good at evaluation, better than they are as recruiters.

Regarding no scholarship when he transferred from Montana, as I wrote above, they did not know who he was. They had also already given out their allotment of scholarships that recruiting cycle. As I know you follow recruiting as much or more than anyone, remember that a walkon can be in school paying his own way for two years and then not count against the 25 per year limit when he is given a scholarship.

 

[CougEd]

Honestly, we have no idea. Leach and his staff do not seem to worry about national rankings of players. They discovered Dillard not too far from the uw. He was about the same size as Dahl coming out of high school.

Leach and McGuire have said they did not know who Dahl was, nor should they have when they arrived at WSU. Dahl walked into the football office, told them who he was and asked if he could walk on. He was told yes. Right away during that first spring drills, they knew he was a good player. Perhaps they would have projected him enough to be a good player when he was in high school, as they did with Dillard.

But, none of us really know. What I personally believe is this staff are very good at evaluation, better than they are as recruiters.

Regarding no scholarship when he transferred from Montana, as I wrote above, they did not know who he was. They had also already given out their allotment of scholarships that recruiting cycle. As I know you follow recruiting as much or more than anyone, remember that a walkon can be in school paying his own way for two years and then not count against the 25 per year limit when he is given a scholarship.

To the greater point which Biggs brought up why these players go under the radar. Dillard was offered after probably 33 other offers went out and either they had no interest, little interest, had other offers that fit what the wanted. They came after an undersized kid as a back up plan fairy late in the recruiting because what appears that the kids that were bigger and didn't need the physical development and time to develop were offered first and didn't accept. Thus plan B, which is a great plan B, and just like Dahl was a plan B it works out in the end. But there is a reason the coaches are going for the more physically developed kid.

It doesn't appear that as Biggs suggests that the west coast is simply under evaluated.

 

[Coug1990]

To the greater point which Biggs brought up why these players go under the radar. Dillard was offered after probably 33 other offers went out and either they had no interest, little interest, had other offers that fit what the wanted. They came after an undersized kid as a back up plan fairy late in the recruiting because what appears that the kids that were bigger and didn't need the physical development and time to develop were offered first and didn't accept. Thus plan B, which is a great plan B, and just like Dahl was a plan B it works out in the end. But there is a reason the coaches are going for the more physically developed kid.

It doesn't appear that as Biggs suggests that the west coast is simply under evaluated.

This is not what I got out of the article.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Show me a kid in HS who plays basketball well, is 6'5" or more, weighs at least 230-240, has the frame to add more, loves football and has an OL personality…and I'll show you a kid who probably will deserve a good evaluation. Biggs' guess that there are 25 kids like this most years in the PNW is probably pretty close. At least 20 of them each year. That evaluation regarding the ability to gain size in a more minimal steroid environment becomes more and more important.