Apparently No More Bubble Screens

[CougEd]

When Vita Vea pushes the center three yards deep into the backfield, are you going to run?

And on your last point, no shit. So, since the offense has to run plays, what do you run? Slow developing pass plays for an OL that can't block?

Well a couple of things...Vea was a beast against us. Was he that dominant against other teams? Let me say this...when you don't challenge the linebackers to take a step forward, and they are in a back peddle like DB's every play, they aren't being challenged. Swing passes and screens are not like a running play. They don't make the linebacker make a misstep.

Alos, something unfortunately Leach nor anyone has solved is the three man rush against us. The reasons Greg Gaines and Vea were so dominate is our center couldn't handle one on one. Vea had the center turned on his first step.

So what you would normally do is contained the NG with a double team. The problem while there may have been attempts at a double team from the guard, the fact is it came too late because ofthe wide splits. If they had an NFL split between the g and c, Vea would have been controlled like he was in every other game.

 

[95coug]

I was there for that. Dark times, and as I recall they were in field goal range at the time. I cancelled my season tickets no long after.

I was there too…and for every other game of that era. I don’t remember ever being so embarrassed as in that USC game. Kept my tickets, though. Gave increasing consideration to dropping them every season, and Probably would have given up if they hadn’t made the change in 2011.

Made it 10 more years without making changes, and just dropped from 4 to 2 with this year’s renewal. It’s gotten tougher to find anyone who wanted to go and, honestly, it’s not as much fun as it used to be. With the changes to CFB, I’m probably within a couple years of tuning out.

 

[dgibbons]

Well a couple of things...Vea was a beast against us. Was he that dominant against other teams? Let me say this...when you don't challenge the linebackers to take a step forward, and they are in a back peddle like DB's every play, they aren't being challenged. Swing passes and screens are not like a running play. They don't make the linebacker make a misstep.

Alos, something unfortunately Leach nor anyone has solved is the three man rush against us. The reasons Greg Gaines and Vea were so dominate is our center couldn't handle one on one. Vea had the center turned on his first step.

So what you would normally do is contained the NG with a double team. The problem while there may have been attempts at a double team from the guard, the fact is it came too late because ofthe wide splits. If they had an NFL split between the g and c, Vea would have been controlled like he was in every other game.

Do you have point? Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production.

Vea was the number 12 overall pick, pac-12 defensive player of the year, and 2nd team All-America, so I guess someone thought he was dominant.

 

[CougEd]

Do you have point? Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production.

Vea was the number 12 overall pick, pac-12 defensive player of the year, and 2nd team All-America, so I guess someone thought he was dominant.

Well...I thought I explained the problem with Vea and Gaines. Gaines wasn't the number 12 pick in the draft and yet he too dominated.

Jim Burt, Erik Howard, Sugar Ray Hamilton etc etc. The function of the NG is to create a double team. Yes, Bosch and centers since him need help on the double team. The thing about the Huskies, is Vea could have been triple team. They rushed three. No zone blitz's. The problem was the splits were too wide that created the inability to double team the center who clearly needed help.

Danny Shelton was picked high as well. Not sure you have a point.

 

[dgibbons]

Well...I thought I explained the problem with Vea and Gaines. Gaines wasn't the number 12 pick in the draft and yet he too dominated.

Jim Burt, Erik Howard, Sugar Ray Hamilton etc etc. The function of the NG is to create a double team. Yes, Bosch and centers since him need help on the double team. The thing about the Huskies, is Vea could have been triple team. They rushed three. No zone blitz's. The problem was the splits were too wide that created the inability to double team the center who clearly needed help.

Danny Shelton was picked high as well. Not sure you have a point.

And you haven't responded to the question about losing one on one matchups. Every scheme has them. Do you have an answer, or is this more Ed nonsense?

 

[spongeandshoot]

And you haven't responded to the question about losing one on one matchups. Every scheme has them. Do you have an answer, or is this more Ed nonsense?

You mean more bubble.

 

[CougEd]

And you haven't responded to the question about losing one on one matchups. Every scheme has them. Do you have an answer, or is this more Ed nonsense?

I thought I did . Vea doesn’t play a position that is one on one matchups . The whole principle of his position is to take up two blockers .

And in his case they had three players who could have blocked him not just one .

Again, the issue is the splits were too wide to get the second double team on Vea . I think it is pretty simple to understand actually.

 

[dgibbons]

You mean more bubble.

You run the plays you can execute.

And speaking of questions that haven't been answered, do you complain about Navy running the fullback dive?

 

[dgibbons]

I thought I did . Vea doesn’t play a position that is one on one matchups . The whole principle of his position is to take up two blockers .

And in his case they had three players who could have blocked him not just one .

Again, the issue is the splits were too wide to get the second double team on Vea . I think it is pretty simple to understand actually.

If the NG lines up over the C in an Air Raid offense with wide splits, is that a one on one matchup? Did you see three guys trying to block Vea, or did you see Mauigoa getting pushed around like a shopping cart?

It is pretty simple to understand. Clearly, you don't.

 

[spongeandshoot]

You run the plays you can execute.

And speaking of questions that haven't been answered, do you complain about Navy running the fullback dive?

I know you are trying to be clever, but there is zero correlation between the Navy fb dive and bubble

 

[dgibbons]

I know you are trying to be clever, but there is zero correlation between the Navy fb dive and bubble

Why not? Nothing clever about it.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Why not? Nothing clever about it.

Because bubble screens don't have other options that we run off it...at least the way we ran the offense last year

 

[CougEd]

If the NG lines up over the C in an Air Raid offense with wide splits, is that a one on one matchup? Did you see three guys trying to block Vea, or did you see Mauigoa getting pushed around like a shopping cart?

It is pretty simple to understand. Clearly, you don't.

Are you simply wanting to pretend you are right and know what you are talking about .
The entire principle with an odd front, a nose on the center is to free up linebackers and the center and guard double the nose .

You act like the two guards are there to smoke a Marlboro. Even if when Maigoa gets beat there should be a guard there to double him to control him . Because of the wide splits (and you can cut them down you realize) it didn’t allow the guards to get control of Vea .

In the air raid against uw we had five guys to block three people . They never brought pressure . The two guards could have triple teamed vea .

But keep making the argument he was supposed to be one on one with Maigoa cause the two other players had to check on their nil money.

I am starting to believe sponge and Biggs are on to something.

And there are tackles who can’t control the DE one on one. You know what the offense does ? Chip with a back so the tackle can get control, or have a te block down then release .

 

[dgibbons]

Are you simply wanting to pretend you are right and know what you are talking about .
The entire principle with an odd front, a nose on the center is to free up linebackers and the center and guard double the nose .

You act like the two guards are there to smoke a Marlboro. Even if when Maigoa gets beat there should be a guard there to double him to control him . Because of the wide splits (and you can cut them down you realize) it didn’t allow the guards to get control of Vea .

In the air raid against uw we had five guys to block three people . They never brought pressure . The two guards could have triple teamed vea .

But keep making the argument he was supposed to be one on one with Maigoa cause the two other players had to check on their nil money.

I am starting to believe sponge and Biggs are on to something.

And there are tackles who can’t control the DE one on one. You know what the offense does ? Chip with a back so the tackle can get control, or have a te block down then release .

Do you understand that the wide splits were part of Leach's offense? They don't go away, just because you'd like them too. Just like a TE doesn't magically appear in an offense that doesn't have any of the roster.

Systems have limitations. It comes with the territory. Systems also have benefits. You ignore the benefits of having a system and focus only of the limitations. You're pining for the Paul Wulff multiple offense. Just like Biggs.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Do you understand that the wide splits were part of Leach's offense? They don't go away, just because you'd like them too. Just like a TE doesn't magically appear in an offense that doesn't have any of the roster.

Systems have limitations. It comes with the territory. Systems also have benefits. You ignore the benefits of having a system and focus only of the limitations. You're pining for the Paul Wulff multiple offense. Just like Biggs.

Never played middle school football. Tell us more oh brilliant one.

 

[dgibbons]

Never played middle school football. Tell us more oh brilliant one.

How's your buddy Paul?

 

[BiggsCoug]

How's your buddy Paul?

Ask your wife.

 

[CougEd]

Do you understand that the wide splits were part of Leach's offense? They don't go away, just because you'd like them too. Just like a TE doesn't magically appear in an offense that doesn't have any of the roster.

Systems have limitations. It comes with the territory. Systems also have benefits. You ignore the benefits of having a system and focus only of the limitations. You're pining for the Paul Wulff multiple offense. Just like Biggs.

Do you understand that the wide splits were part of Leach's offense? They don't go away, just because you'd like them too. Just like a TE doesn't magically appear in an offense that doesn't have any of the roster.

Systems have limitations. It comes with the territory. Systems also have benefits. You ignore the benefits of having a system and focus only of the limitations. You're pining for the Paul Wulff multiple offense. Just like Biggs.

Splits are an adjustment. Sort of like using a back to chip on the defensive end. The splits Leach started out with can even go wider as the game goes on. He said as much. That is called an adjustment. Narrowing his splits would be an adjustment as well.

Bringing in a TE would be a change in the offense. It changes many things, including playing time for Wr's, recruiting etc. Narrowing a split so they can handle Greg Gaines is an adjustment. Again, pretty simple for most to understand.

 

[dgibbons]

Ask your wife.

Paul's your buddy, why ask her?

 

[dgibbons]

Splits are an adjustment. Sort of like using a back to chip on the defensive end. The splits Leach started out with can even go wider as the game goes on. He said as much. That is called an adjustment. Narrowing his splits would be an adjustment as well.

Bringing in a TE would be a change in the offense. It changes many things, including playing time for Wr's, recruiting etc. Narrowing a split so they can handle Greg Gaines is an adjustment. Again, pretty simple for most to understand.

Then why bring up a change in the offense, literally a position that did not exist? You don't need to prove you don't know what you're talking about, we already know.

And everyone (you may be an exception) knows that when Leach wanted to pass protect it meant the two back set.

So when there were wide splits, it meant that the center was going to need to win a one on one battle that play. Anything else you need explained today?

 

[CougEd]

Then why bring up a change in the offense, literally a position that did not exist? You don't need to prove you don't know what you're talking about, we already know.

And everyone (you may be an exception) knows that when Leach wanted to pass protect it meant the two back set.

So when there were wide splits, it meant that the center was going to need to win a one on one battle that play. Anything else you need explained today?

Then why bring up a change in the offense, literally a position that did not exist? You don't need to prove you don't know what you're talking about, we already know.

And everyone (you may be an exception) knows that when Leach wanted to pass protect it meant the two back set.

So when there were wide splits, it meant that the center was going to need to win a one on one battle that play. Anything else you need explained today?

I think I understand now. When you set up your electronic football that vibrates the two guards never touched the nose guard.

But I will play along. What were the two uncovered guards doing when Vea beat the center? Are you saying when Leach wanted to pass block against a 3 man line he had two backs in the backfield? So he was running four against 8 in the back 2/3's? Why did he need seven to block 3?

Please tell me the role of a NG. There job is to get double teamed. That is the principle of a 3/4 defense.

 

[dgibbons]

I think I understand now. When you set up your electronic football that vibrates the two guards never touched the nose guard.

But I will play along. What were the two uncovered guards doing when Vea beat the center? Are you saying when Leach wanted to pass block against a 3 man line he had two backs in the backfield? So he was running four against 8 in the back 2/3's? Why did he need seven to block 3?

Please tell me the role of a NG. There job is to get double teamed. That is the principle of a 3/4 defense.

Um, my understanding was not a problem. Yours has been for years (maybe decades, maybe a lifetime).

 

[CougEd]

Um, my understanding was not a problem. Yours has been for years (maybe decades, maybe a lifetime).

Sure it is. I have a feeling Biggs is correct and you have never played the game. The whole premise of the NG is to take up two blockers. You have yet to tell me who the guards are to block especially in pass protection. They are uncovered. The whole responsibility if the NG is effective is to demand a double team. On a run play so you know one of the guards will double the NG, then slide off to the linebacker. But against UW....the linebackers don't have to worry about a run play against UW, and they move like a free safety would to drop into coverage.

Yes, Leach liked bigger splits but he couldn't keep greg gaines off our qb either. Make an adjustment, not change the offense and shorten the splits between guard center gap.

But pretend like you know the function and responsibility of the NG.

 

[dgibbons]

Sure it is. I have a feeling Biggs is correct and you have never played the game. The whole premise of the NG is to take up two blockers. You have yet to tell me who the guards are to block especially in pass protection. They are uncovered. The whole responsibility if the NG is effective is to demand a double team. On a run play so you know one of the guards will double the NG, then slide off to the linebacker. But against UW....the linebackers don't have to worry about a run play against UW, and they move like a free safety would to drop into coverage.

Yes, Leach liked bigger splits but he couldn't keep greg gaines off our qb either. Make an adjustment, not change the offense and shorten the splits between guard center gap.

But pretend like you know the function and responsibility of the NG.

I'll try to make it easier for you since you're clearly struggling. Mauigoa couldn't hold a block (a one on one matchup) for enough time for the guard to help, running back to help, etc. (placating your inability to understand the Air Raid offense). Now I will repeat a question asked earlier, which will be repeated here: Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production?

But pretend like you know the function of anything.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I'll try to make it easier for you since you're clearly struggling. Mauigoa couldn't hold a block (a one on one matchup) for enough time for the guard to help, running back to help, etc. (placating your inability to understand the Air Raid offense). Now I will repeat a question asked earlier, which will be repeated here: Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production?

But pretend like you know the function of anything.

So Gibby, tell us - did you ever play football? And what position(s)? That's the question we all want an answer to.

 

[CougEd]

I'll try to make it easier for you since you're clearly struggling. Mauigoa couldn't hold a block (a one on one matchup) for enough time for the guard to help, running back to help, etc. (placating your inability to understand the Air Raid offense). Now I will repeat a question asked earlier, which will be repeated here: Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production?

But pretend like you know the function of anything.

Well answer me this,,,,if you shorten the gap between guard and center could such an ADJUSTMENT help the center control or contain the NG

 

[Coug90]

So Gibby, tell us - did you ever play football? And what position(s)? That's the question we all want an answer to.

DGib and I played on the same powderpuff team. We were like Brady/Gronk…unstoppable combo

 

[dgibbons]

So Gibby, tell us - did you ever play football? And what position(s)? That's the question we all want an answer to.

Yes. TE and WR.

 

[dgibbons]

Well answer me this,,,,if you shorten the gap between guard and center could such an ADJUSTMENT help the center control or contain the NG

How long are you going to avoid the question?

Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production?

 

[CougEd]

DGib and I played on the same powderpuff team. We were like Brady/Gronk…unstoppable combo

How long are you going to avoid the question?

Please show me an offense where one on one matchups can be consistently lost and you still get production?

Dgibs I can't answer the question because that is not the role of a NG. He is supposed to be doubled. Our splits made it impossible to get an effective double on him. Thus you make an adjustment and cut down the splits.

But because you don't understand the position of NG and a 3-4, know that if our center is getting beat one on one, and if the two guards are picking their nose, yes I agree with no one to help and getting beat one on one the offense will struggle.

Now that I have answered your question, can you let me know what the two guards were doing to help or center as they had no one else to block?

 

[dgibbons]

Dgibs I can't answer the question because that is not the role of a NG. He is supposed to be doubled. Our splits made it impossible to get an effective double on him. Thus you make an adjustment and cut down the splits.

But because you don't understand the position of NG and a 3-4, know that if our center is getting beat one on one, and if the two guards are picking their nose, yes I agree with no one to help and getting beat one on one the offense will struggle.

Now that I have answered your question, can you let me know what the two guards were doing to help or center as they had no one else to block?

This discussion is not limited to a NG. But nice try. You may have noticed the title of this thread is "Apparently No More Bubble Screens".

 

[BiggsCoug]

So Gibby, tell us - did you ever play football? And what position(s)? That's the question we all want an answer to.

He will lie.

 

[Coug90]

I don’t quite understand the preoccupation with who played football in HS. If I’m not mistaken most everyone here who played did so in a time when QBs were throwing it 10% of the time and the zone blitz wasn’t even a concept. How is that experience even relevant when discussing CFB in 2023? We ran the Wing T and had like 3 defensive coverages. There’s plenty of guys I played with who wouldn’t even know what a bubble screen is today.

The glory years are great to relive and all, and if you’ve got a good Al Bundy story I’m all ears, but it’s pretty comical that 4 touchdowns you scored in the homecoming game back in 1978 makes you Kirk Herbstreit today.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I don’t quite understand the preoccupation with who played football in HS. If I’m not mistaken most everyone here who played did so in a time when QBs were throwing it 10% of the time and the zone blitz wasn’t even a concept. How is that experience even relevant when discussing CFB in 2023? We ran the Wing T and had like 3 defensive coverages. There’s plenty of guys I played with who wouldn’t even know what a bubble screen is today.

The glory years are great to relive and all, and if you’ve got a good Al Bundy story I’m all ears, but it’s pretty comical that 4 touchdowns you scored in the homecoming game back in 1978 makes you Kirk Herbstreit today.

If you can’t figure it out there is no point explaining it to you.

 

[95coug]

The glory years are great to relive and all, and if you’ve got a good Al Bundy story I’m all ears, but it’s pretty comical that 4 touchdowns you scored in the homecoming game back in 1978 makes you Kirk Herbstreit today.

I had 2 TDs in a game once. Not really noteworthy…except that I was the center.

 

[CougEd]

This discussion is not limited to a NG. But nice try. You may have noticed the title of this thread is "Apparently No More Bubble Screens".

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Oh… I thought you were telling me how plays don’t work cause Vea wreaked havoc. And it was about the center not winning a one on one matchup when he had two guys next to him with no one to block .

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Oh… I thought you weee telling me how plays don’t work cause Vea wreaked havoc. And it was about the center nit winning a one on one matchup when he had two guys next to him with no one to block .

Geezus Christ you guys give it a rest. You beat a dead horse and then beat it into the ground. Who the F cares?

 

[CougEd]

Geezus Christ you guys give it a rest. You beat a dead horse and then beat it into the ground. Who the F cares?

Clearly you do.. let me know when you are hired as board nanny … I will give you a crappy yelp review

 

[Coug90]

Clearly you do.. let me know when you are hired as board nanny … I will give you a crappy yelp review

You ever been a nanny before Ed? Didn’t think so!

 

[dgibbons]

Oh… I thought you were telling me how plays don’t work cause Vea wreaked havoc. And it was about the center not winning a one on one matchup when he had two guys next to him with no one to block .

An example was needed for explanatory purposes. Sadly, you didn't understand that.