By the end of next season

[COUGinNCW]

I expect Martin will be in the top 3 for toughest and loudest stadiums in the Pac12 with Autzen and U of U.

Next year is a great home schedule and with the momentum from this season I'd expect a record number of season ticket sales going into 2016. Add in the Suites and FOB to hold the sound in and no one is going to want to come to Pullman.

 

[Coug95man2]

I expect Martin will be in the top 3 for toughest and loudest stadiums in the Pac12 with Autzen and U of U.

Next year is a great home schedule and with the momentum from this season I'd expect a record number of season ticket sales going into 2016. Add in the Suites and FOB to hold the sound in and no one is going to want to come to Pullman.

You know, it's interesting. We all were a part of the conversations about expansion. One of the things that was continually brought up was how, even during our "golden age", we didn't sell out Martin. Now? We do it multiple times a year for the past 4 years, no problem. I think a element of this change is the "brand" of football. I remember when CML was hired, Moos continually mentioned something to the affect of, "Mike Leach brings a brand of football that's exciting to watch." I don't recall Price being a bore to watch ( His continual trick plays were anything but boring) but I agree that CML's style of football is truly exciting to watch.
CNCW, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't correct. I also wouldn't be surprised if this kind of attendance continues, that we don't start hearing about whatever Moos deems "expansion" of Martin.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You know, it's interesting. We all were a part of the conversations about expansion. One of the things that was continually brought up was how, even during our "golden age", we didn't sell out Martin. Now? We do it multiple times a year for the past 4 years, no problem. I think a element of this change is the "brand" of football. I remember when CML was hired, Moos continually mentioned something to the affect of, "Mike Leach brings a brand of football that's exciting to watch." I don't recall Price being a bore to watch ( His continual trick plays were anything but boring) but I agree that CML's style of football is truly exciting to watch.
CNCW, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't correct. I also wouldn't be surprised if this kind of attendance continues, that we don't start hearing about whatever Moos deems "expansion" of Martin.

There were more "official" sellouts or near sellouts in 2003 and 2004 than people realize.

According to the official site, following is the attendance for home games in 2002, 2003 & 2004:

2002 - (37,600 capacity)
Idaho - 30,110
Montana State - 23,713
USC - 36,861
ASU - 37,444
Oregon - 37,600
UW - 37,600

2003 - (35,117 capacity)
New Mexico - 32,334
Arizona - 34,923
OSU - 35,117 (this game was used in a lot of media pictures)
UCLA - 33,846
ASU - 30,43

2004 - (35,117 capacity)
Idaho - 34,858
Oregon - 35,117
Stanford - 34,963
USC - 35,117
UW - 34,334

The fans obviously weren't buying into early blowout games against Idaho or MSU in 2002 but the momentum built quickly as the year went along. The loss to USC in 2003 apparently knocked some of the bandwagon fans off the bus and the back to back games in Pullman with UCLA and ASU probably didn't help. It will be interesting to see how many people show up for Colorado on 11/21 for a late season comparison. 2003 had great official attendance numbers overall. The fact that WSU was not bowl eligible at the time of the Apple Cup probably had an impact on that number.

 

[kayak15]

Since we are now attracting decent crowds and the subject of expansion of Martin has arisen again, I have a question. Moos already has the IPF and baseball clubhouse on his plate and is looking at upgrading the soccer facilities. So if expansion of Martin is feasible, does this jump to the top of the priority list or wait until the others are finished or somewhere in between? I have no idea but am curious as to how others see this issue.

 

[wazzucougs96]

There were more "official" sellouts or near sellouts in 2003 and 2004 than people realize.

According to the official site, following is the attendance for home games in 2002, 2003 & 2004:

2002 - (37,600 capacity)
Idaho - 30,110
Montana State - 23,713
USC - 36,861
ASU - 37,444
Oregon - 37,600
UW - 37,600

2003 - (35,117 capacity)
New Mexico - 32,334
Arizona - 34,923
OSU - 35,117 (this game was used in a lot of media pictures)
UCLA - 33,846
ASU - 30,43

2004 - (35,117 capacity)
Idaho - 34,858
Oregon - 35,117
Stanford - 34,963
USC - 35,117
UW - 34,334

The fans obviously weren't buying into early blowout games against Idaho or MSU in 2002 but the momentum built quickly as the year went along. The loss to USC in 2003 apparently knocked some of the bandwagon fans off the bus and the back to back games in Pullman with UCLA and ASU probably didn't help. It will be interesting to see how many people show up for Colorado on 11/21 for a late season comparison. 2003 had great official attendance numbers overall. The fact that WSU was not bowl eligible at the time of the Apple Cup probably had an impact on that number.

That Montana State game in 2002 was on a Thursday night, FWIW

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I think baseball and soccer remain the next priorities. It will take some time for football. We can knock out baseball and soccer pretty quickly, and should do so.

 

[dgibbons]

Since we are now attracting decent crowds and the subject of expansion of Martin has arisen again, I have a question. Moos already has the IPF and baseball clubhouse on his plate and is looking at upgrading the soccer facilities. So if expansion of Martin is feasible, does this jump to the top of the priority list or wait until the others are finished or somewhere in between? I have no idea but am curious as to how others see this issue.

Doubt it. Expanding Martin would take several years of fundraising, designing, planning, etc. Soccer is done for now as I understand it.

 

[CrimsonWazzu]

Take what we have, make it even better. There is still so much room for improvement in and around the stadium. Make it the best damn sub-40k stadium in the nation by far. That's something that's realistic and probably makes more sense than just expanding the hell out of it when we don't have season ticket levels that would suggest that's even a remotely smart business decision.

 

[M-I-Coug]

I know Clarence D. Martin , (UW alum) gave money to rebuild the stadium after the fire, and his kids are present heirs. I get that. It's just a shame Moos does not develop a new campain to somehow get the Board of Regents and the Martin family to go ahead and release it's name, so we can call our venue, "Cougar Stadium". That would be the icing on the cake, don't you think?

 

[kayak15]

I know Clarence D. Martin , (UW alum) gave money to rebuild the stadium after the fire, and his kids are present heirs. I get that. It's just a shame Moose does not develop a new campain to somehow get the Board of Regents and the Martin family to go ahead and release it's name, so we can call our venue, "Cougar Stadium". That would be the icing on the cake, don't you think?

I understand where you are coming from. Having our stadium named after a mutt is somewhat annoying. That said, I don't see a reasonable way of getting away from it. The Martin family donated the money and changing the name has an aroma of "Thanks for the help. We've given you enough credit at this point. Now, go away." That appears to me as a bit ungrateful and impolite. My social skills are minimal and that is a pretty low bar to hop over. Maybe change the stadium name to Cougar Stadium and name the field as Martin Field. Sort of like Beasley Coliseum and Friel Court. Or Martin Stadium with Cougar Field, but that sounds rather strange. Anyway, we have the cake and I am not too concerned with the title of the frosting. Still, it is a little bizarre having a stadium named after a husky, isn't it?

 

[CrimsonWazzu]

Im ok if we never change the name of our stadium. Gov Martin grew up in Eastern Washington, as did his kids. Their family was a big part of the ag economy during the turn of the century and was one of the bsst leaders in our state's history. I remember reading a piece on it quite some time ago, but he and his family always have been established on the right side of the state and were avid Cougar Football fans despite him going to UW for business school. If anything it's a hefty cockpunch to UW that one of their alumni chose to support our football program when it was faced with a disaster and may have gone where it has been over the last 40 years if it wasnt for this.

 

[chinookpirate]

My understanding is that the Martin family has been very receptive toward the concept of adjusting their recognition level to accommodate corporate sponsorship, according to Moos.

 

[M-I-Coug]

If I were Bill, I would hire one of the best firms in the state, like Perkins Coie, or Davis Wright Tremain, and let them make a go at it. Throw whatever resources it took, make it a priority, and ultimatly, get the Martin's consent.

If the grown kids are huge Cougar fans, and they don't have big egos, if there's anyone who can do it, no question about it, Perkins Coie, LLC can.

 

[Cougscruizinhwy26]

I am sure if Moos found a BIG donor for the naming rights of the stadium something could be worked out with the Martin Family. Name the stadium and then call it the Martin Football Complex, as we still have not sold naming rights to Football Ops building.

 

[Coug95man2]

There were more "official" sellouts or near sellouts in 2003 and 2004 than people realize.

According to the official site, following is the attendance for home games in 2002, 2003 & 2004:

2002 - (37,600 capacity)
Idaho - 30,110
Montana State - 23,713
USC - 36,861
ASU - 37,444
Oregon - 37,600
UW - 37,600

2003 - (35,117 capacity)
New Mexico - 32,334
Arizona - 34,923
OSU - 35,117 (this game was used in a lot of media pictures)
UCLA - 33,846
ASU - 30,43

2004 - (35,117 capacity)
Idaho - 34,858
Oregon - 35,117
Stanford - 34,963
USC - 35,117
UW - 34,334

The fans obviously weren't buying into early blowout games against Idaho or MSU in 2002 but the momentum built quickly as the year went along. The loss to USC in 2003 apparently knocked some of the bandwagon fans off the bus and the back to back games in Pullman with UCLA and ASU probably didn't help. It will be interesting to see how many people show up for Colorado on 11/21 for a late season comparison. 2003 had great official attendance numbers overall. The fact that WSU was not bowl eligible at the time of the Apple Cup probably had an impact on that number.

I get what you are saying, flat. But you are missing my point. Last years attendance was great. We had 3 legitimate sellouts. And our record was ??? THAT is my point.

Since you bring up numbers, to show how head-scratching a position I'm seeing… Total seats sold in 2002 were 203,328. A 3 win team in 2014 (with a stadium that now holds 5,000 less seats) had total seats filled: 184,762. About 20K difference. If the 3 games that we sold out in 2014 had the same capacity as 2002, we'd have had roughly 5,000 fewer seats sold in 2014 than our magical Rose Bowl, 10 win season. Really… ? Basically, the same attendance.

Reference: If we sold out ALL of our games, to the brim, our current total attendance could only reach 197,712 right now. In 2002, if all games sold out, total attendance could reach 225,600. Add/subtract/multiply/divide those numbers in any fashion you wish and the percentage will be, we are attracting MORE people now, than ever. With last years 3 win season.

THAT is the evidence to me, that shows CML's "brand" of football fills seats. THAT shows me, Moos is hitting people in the right way, in whatever fashion (for all the faults that we see). SOMETHING is happening right, to fill seats like that for a 3 win team. And now, we are looking at a bowl season again. 2 times in 4 seasons. And somehow there are people that have some sort of reservation about CML, Moos and our program(s). The bandwagon'ers are jumping on, obviously. This is a very exciting time in our program that, from the numbers, most people are starting to see.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Doubt it. Expanding Martin would take several years of fundraising, designing, planning, etc. Soccer is done for now as I understand it.

I disagree with this. The plans for the endzone upper deck are in semi-existence. Look how fast the other projects happened - and they were way more complicated and expensive. Lets' finish off that bowl NOW, and add back those 5-6000 seats that we lost over the years. Pretty crazy looking at 13-year old figures and realizing that non-sellout crowds in 2002/2003 would not even fit into today's stadium. 32,950 fan sellouts are ridiculous for a Pac-12 venue. I bet if you went back 30 years we would have had multiple "sellouts" every year at that capacity.

On that note, I would love to know what the cost estimate would be today for that endzone addition. I believe that the footings were placed at the time that they did the previous upgrades.

 

[wazzucougs96]

I disagree with this. The plans for the endzone upper deck are in semi-existence. Look how fast the other projects happened - and they were way more complicated and expensive. Lets' finish off that bowl NOW, and add back those 5-6000 seats that we lost over the years. Pretty crazy looking at 13-year old figures and realizing that non-sellout crowds in 2002/2003 would not even fit into today's stadium. 32,950 fan sellouts are ridiculous for a Pac-12 venue. I bet if you went back 30 years we would have had multiple "sellouts" every year at that capacity.

On that note, I would love to know what the cost estimate would be today for that endzone addition. I believe that the footings were placed at the time that they did the previous upgrades.

The other projects were paid for with TV money and bonds. That credit card is maxed out. Can't use it for stadium expansion.

As several others have noted, stadium expansion is a waste of time and money at this point. We have a measly 11k season ticket holders and still have legitimate attendance issues at least twice a year. We are just now getting to a point where the value of Cougar tickets is sort of returning to expected levels.

Adding supply is a terrible idea.

 

[Coug95man2]

I disagree with this. The plans for the endzone upper deck are in semi-existence. Look how fast the other projects happened - and they were way more complicated and expensive. Lets' finish off that bowl NOW, and add back those 5-6000 seats that we lost over the years. Pretty crazy looking at 13-year old figures and realizing that non-sellout crowds in 2002/2003 would not even fit into today's stadium. 32,950 fan sellouts are ridiculous for a Pac-12 venue. I bet if you went back 30 years we would have had multiple "sellouts" every year at that capacity.

On that note, I would love to know what the cost estimate would be today for that endzone addition. I believe that the footings were placed at the time that they did the previous upgrades.

And I'm torn on this. Baseball and certainly basketball, have waited so long for any real significant upgrades… They deserve it. But football floats the boat.

On the fence on this.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I get what you are saying, flat. But you are missing my point. Last years attendance was great. We had 3 legitimate sellouts. And our record was ??? THAT is my point.

Since you bring up numbers, to show how head-scratching a position I'm seeing… Total seats sold in 2002 were 203,328. A 3 win team in 2014 (with a stadium that now holds 5,000 less seats) had total seats filled: 184,762. About 20K difference. If the 3 games that we sold out in 2014 had the same capacity as 2002, we'd have had roughly 5,000 fewer seats sold in 2014 than our magical Rose Bowl, 10 win season. Really… ? Basically, the same attendance.

Reference: If we sold out ALL of our games, to the brim, our current total attendance could only reach 197,712 right now. In 2002, if all games sold out, total attendance could reach 225,600. Add/subtract/multiply/divide those numbers in any fashion you wish and the percentage will be, we are attracting MORE people now, than ever. With last years 3 win season.

THAT is the evidence to me, that shows CML's "brand" of football fills seats. THAT shows me, Moos is hitting people in the right way, in whatever fashion (for all the faults that we see). SOMETHING is happening right, to fill seats like that for a 3 win team. And now, we are looking at a bowl season again. 2 times in 4 seasons. And somehow there are people that have some sort of reservation about CML, Moos and our program(s). The bandwagon'ers are jumping on, obviously. This is a very exciting time in our program that, from the numbers, most people are starting to see.

I see your point but I don't know that it's the "Leach brand of football" that is generating the turnout. It might just be that fans feel that we have a chance to win the games and want to be there.

Another way to look at the numbers above, look at the % capacity for the conference games in those seasons.

2002: 99.4%
2003: 95.6%
2004: 99.3%

2003 was obviously a bit of a letdown and the fans didn't turn out like we'd have liked but most universities would be happy if they averaged fewer than 4% empty seats for their conference games. Looking at attendance this season (capacity is officially 32,952):

2015
PSU - 24,302
Wyoming - 31,105
OSU - 32,952
Stanford - 30,012
ASU - 32,952

So far, we are averaging 97.0% capacity in the three conference games we are hosting. That's great, but it's not better by percentage than 2002 or 2004 (a year where we finished 5-6). Last year, we had the following attendance:

2014
PSU - 30,874
Oregon - 32,952
Cal - 30,020
Arizona - 32,952
USC - 25,012
UW - 32,952

So, last year we averaged 93.4% capacity in our five conference games. It's notable that the USC game was very poorly attended. It wasn't terrible weather and it was a Saturday but I can't specifically remember why the attendance stunk. It was a second straight home game and we had just fallen to 2-6 so my guess is that most fans just figured it wasn't worth watching the game that was a likely loss. FWIW, we had no sellouts in 2013, even for the Utah game when we were 5-5 and trying to lock up bowl eligibility (officially 23,112). Looking at last year, the Arizona game was right after we had played fairly well against Stanford for the most part (one TD deficit in the early 4th quarter) and we still had a shot at bowl eligibility. Maybe that helped attendance in that game. The long story short, if it was really about the brand of football alone, we would be averaging higher numbers than we have over Leach's career. I think our fans are ready and willing to buy tickets to support a winner (just like any fanbase) but they aren't showing up just because Leach is our coach.

What will be very interesting for this year will be the turnout for the CU game. WSU has always struggled to sell out non-AC games in mid-November. With a poor weather forecast, it will be a litmus test on the actual excitement of WSU fans and their desire to see the Cougs in person compared to prior years. I'm going to say that we end up with a couple thousand empty seats, but that would be a huge improvement over most years. If we beat UCLA and the weather forecast improves, it might even get close to a sellout. Again, an interesting test of our fanbase.

 

[Coug95man2]

I see your point but I don't know that it's the "Leach brand of football" that is generating the turnout. It might just be that fans feel that we have a chance to win the games and want to be there.

Another way to look at the numbers above, look at the % capacity for the conference games in those seasons.

2002: 99.4%
2003: 95.6%
2004: 99.3%

2003 was obviously a bit of a letdown and the fans didn't turn out like we'd have liked but most universities would be happy if they averaged fewer than 4% empty seats for their conference games. Looking at attendance this season (capacity is officially 32,952):

2015
PSU - 24,302
Wyoming - 31,105
OSU - 32,952
Stanford - 30,012
ASU - 32,952

So far, we are averaging 97.0% capacity in the three conference games we are hosting. That's great, but it's not better by percentage than 2002 or 2004 (a year where we finished 5-6). Last year, we had the following attendance:

2014
PSU - 30,874
Oregon - 32,952
Cal - 30,020
Arizona - 32,952
USC - 25,012
UW - 32,952

So, last year we averaged 93.4% capacity in our five conference games. It's notable that the USC game was very poorly attended. It wasn't terrible weather and it was a Saturday but I can't specifically remember why the attendance stunk. It was a second straight home game and we had just fallen to 2-6 so my guess is that most fans just figured it wasn't worth watching the game that was a likely loss. FWIW, we had no sellouts in 2013, even for the Utah game when we were 5-5 and trying to lock up bowl eligibility (officially 23,112). Looking at last year, the Arizona game was right after we had played fairly well against Stanford for the most part (one TD deficit in the early 4th quarter) and we still had a shot at bowl eligibility. Maybe that helped attendance in that game. The long story short, if it was really about the brand of football alone, we would be averaging higher numbers than we have over Leach's career. I think our fans are ready and willing to buy tickets to support a winner (just like any fanbase) but they aren't showing up just because Leach is our coach.

What will be very interesting for this year will be the turnout for the CU game. WSU has always struggled to sell out non-AC games in mid-November. With a poor weather forecast, it will be a litmus test on the actual excitement of WSU fans and their desire to see the Cougs in person compared to prior years. I'm going to say that we end up with a couple thousand empty seats, but that would be a huge improvement over most years. If we beat UCLA and the weather forecast improves, it might even get close to a sellout. Again, an interesting test of our fanbase.

First off, I like your numbers. You aren't giving me (us) platitudes and feelings. But second, again, you've missed my point. We were a 3 win team last year and we had 93% attendance?!?! I'd say that's damm good!

But on your other point, you might be right. We've been conditioned to see such bad crowds because looking at Doba's last year (Yes, I'm completely avoiding the previous regimes years because, well, because regardless of whether or not there's a legitimate point, the thread will get hijacked ):

2007, the only thing that saves Doba, regarding sheer numbers was the Clink game. Without it, attendance JUST at Martin (5 games) was 164K. With CLink almost 200K.

-In 2006, total attendance was 201.4K, all games in Martin. In 2005, Martin attendance (5 games) was 155K, with Clink was 207,033.

His attendance, was pretty mediocre his last several years, but seemingly equal to what CML is getting now. So maybe your right in one facet but either way, I see attendance being VERY similar, yet last year we had 3 wins…

Either way, attendance is up over the past decade, and that's exciting, regardless of the "why it's happening" factor. Either way, I like CML's brand of football and maybe that's where I'm projecting numbers into my own belief. Meh. Either way, WSU is doing well. So from 2004 and on, our attendance had dropped. Now it's going up. Hard to not be excited when attendance is up from a decade of "blah".

 

[dgibbons]

I disagree with this. The plans for the endzone upper deck are in semi-existence. Look how fast the other projects happened - and they were way more complicated and expensive. Lets' finish off that bowl NOW, and add back those 5-6000 seats that we lost over the years. Pretty crazy looking at 13-year old figures and realizing that non-sellout crowds in 2002/2003 would not even fit into today's stadium. 32,950 fan sellouts are ridiculous for a Pac-12 venue. I bet if you went back 30 years we would have had multiple "sellouts" every year at that capacity.

On that note, I would love to know what the cost estimate would be today for that endzone addition. I believe that the footings were placed at the time that they did the previous upgrades.

The only way more endzone seats make sense is you move the students into them.

As I understand it, the problem with the upperdeck on the student side is that the ground underneath was once marshland and would need a lot of work to hold the weight. I thought that footings of somekind were buried during Sterk's bathroom and concession stand upgrade, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[wazzucougs96]

The only way more endzone seats make sense is you move the students into them.

As I understand it, the problem with the upperdeck on the student side is that the ground underneath was once marshland and would need a lot of work to hold the weight. I thought that footings of somekind were buried during Sterk's bathroom and concession stand upgrade, but I'm not sure about that.

Any kind of northside remodel that doesn't included a complete teardown and building a brand new structure similar to what Oregon State did is a waste of time and money.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

First off, I like your numbers. You aren't giving me (us) platitudes and feelings. But second, again, you've missed my point. We were a 3 win team last year and we had 93% attendance?!?! I'd say that's damm good!

But on your other point, you might be right. We've been conditioned to see such bad crowds because looking at Doba's last year (Yes, I'm completely avoiding the previous regimes years because, well, because regardless of whether or not there's a legitimate point, the thread will get hijacked ):

2007, the only thing that saves Doba, regarding sheer numbers was the Clink game. Without it, attendance JUST at Martin (5 games) was 164K. With CLink almost 200K.

-In 2006, total attendance was 201.4K, all games in Martin. In 2005, Martin attendance (5 games) was 155K, with Clink was 207,033.

His attendance, was pretty mediocre his last several years, but seemingly equal to what CML is getting now. So maybe your right in one facet but either way, I see attendance being VERY similar, yet last year we had 3 wins…

Either way, attendance is up over the past decade, and that's exciting, regardless of the "why it's happening" factor. Either way, I like CML's brand of football and maybe that's where I'm projecting numbers into my own belief. Meh. Either way, WSU is doing well. So from 2004 and on, our attendance had dropped. Now it's going up. Hard to not be excited when attendance is up from a decade of "blah".

My theory on the good attendance last year is that it was a trailing effect from making the bowl game in 2013. Much like we had good attendance in 2004 despite the losses, I think fans were buying into the idea that Leach had us going in the right direction based on the bowl trip. I agree with you that the idea that Leach is a great coach who is going to have exciting teams is a reason that our fans are buying in as much as they have, but wins alone are the thing that will truly drive up the attendance numbers in my opinion. If anything, its exciting for us that our fans have something to be excited about, regardless of the finer nuances.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The only way more endzone seats make sense is you move the students into them.

As I understand it, the problem with the upperdeck on the student side is that the ground underneath was once marshland and would need a lot of work to hold the weight. I thought that footings of somekind were buried during Sterk's bathroom and concession stand upgrade, but I'm not sure about that.

I was under the same impression. The Phase 1 work included foundation work to support an upper deck type structure. I'll agree with the other comment that it would be better to complete teardown that north side and build it properly if we are going to do it. The biggest obstacle I see is the Fieldhouse. A lot of people love that old pile of junk and tearing it down would not be an easy task politically.

 

[Coug95man2]

My theory on the good attendance last year is that it was a trailing effect from making the bowl game in 2013. Much like we had good attendance in 2004 despite the losses, I think fans were buying into the idea that Leach had us going in the right direction based on the bowl trip. I agree with you that the idea that Leach is a great coach who is going to have exciting teams is a reason that our fans are buying in as much as they have, but wins alone are the thing that will truly drive up the attendance numbers in my opinion. If anything, its exciting for us that our fans have something to be excited about, regardless of the finer nuances.

It might be easier to buy your theory if the sellouts from last year weren't at the end of the season. With every game, we were hurting. Yet the end of October, the AZ game was sold out. Then, of course, the AC was a sellout. And while I type, "of course" as if it's a given, we all need to realize that it isn't too long ago, even the AC wasn't selling out. Just sayin'.

 

[Coug95man2]

I was under the same impression. The Phase 1 work included foundation work to support an upper deck type structure. I'll agree with the other comment that it would be better to complete teardown that north side and build it properly if we are going to do it. The biggest obstacle I see is the Fieldhouse. A lot of people love that old pile of junk and tearing it down would not be an easy task politically.

We went through this extensively and us "95" history guys did some pretty extensive looking into. The pond that everyone attributes the "marshland" thing to, was man-made. There was no "marsh" there that was natural. Could there still be foundation/support issues with the ground? Yep. But it seems most of it is based on the pond that once was there. That pond was only there for roughly 30 years.

 

[MikeFingLeach]

2014 against USC was terrible weather. Also, back to back home games usually struggle to draw.

CU attendance this year will be tough with game time and the weekend before Thanksgiving. I expect the usual student exodus.

 

[chinookpirate]

Season tickets and multi game pack presales ensuring season sellouts will be the next step in creating a hot ticket... assuming we continue to win.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It might be easier to buy your theory if the sellouts from last year weren't at the end of the season. With every game, we were hurting. Yet the end of October, the AZ game was sold out. Then, of course, the AC was a sellout. And while I type, "of course" as if it's a given, we all need to realize that it isn't too long ago, even the AC wasn't selling out. Just sayin'.

As you said, the Arizona game was still in October. We still had a slim chance at bowl eligibility and we had beaten Arizona in 2013. The main reason why I think the good attendance in 2014 was a trailing effect is a review of the 2012 & 2013 attendance numbers.

2012 (capacity 33,522)
EWU - 33,598 (everyone's excited for Leach!)
CU - 31,668
Cal - 27,339
UCLA - 28,110
UW - 30,544

2013 (capacity 32,740)
SUU - 31,127 (WSU at 1-1)
Idaho - 31,521 (WSU at 2-1)
OSU - 31,955 (WSU at 4-2)
ASU - 20,617 (WSU at 4-4)
Utah - 23,112 (WSU at 5-5)

Even though WSU was 4-2 for the first time since 2006, we couldn't sell out the stadium against Oregon State. The numbers plummeted from there as the season regressed and the weather got colder. Even with the excitement generated by the Leach hiring, we failed to sell out a single game in 2012 or 2013 after his initial game game against EWU. In all honesty, the early 2013 numbers were pretty good by WSU standards and nothing to sneeze at, but they look a lot like numbers from many other years at WSU. FWIW, I looked at 2006 and we finished that season with three official sell-outs. The biggest takeaway for me (and this is a compliment to Leach) is that WSU fans are back to where they believe in the program again. Getting to a bowl game in 2013 got everyone jacked up for 2014 and even though support was light for the USC game in 2014, the attendance was pretty good overall. Right now, there is more excitement around our program than there has been since at least 2006. That is a great thing.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I was under the same impression. The Phase 1 work included foundation work to support an upper deck type structure. I'll agree with the other comment that it would be better to complete teardown that north side and build it properly if we are going to do it. The biggest obstacle I see is the Fieldhouse. A lot of people love that old pile of junk and tearing it down would not be an easy task politically.

The Phase 1 work included foundation work to support the endzone upper deck as envisioned by Sterk, not a student side upper deck.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Also, back to back home games usually struggle to draw.

exodus.

Stanford, ASU and I had a good chuckle at this comment But yes, back to backs are typically tough draws.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I've said before, but expanding the stadium makes no sense if we continue to have the largest student section in the conference (which I believe we do). From a pure ticket revenue standpoint, stop practically giving away a third of your seats, including premium, 50 yard line seats.

 

[Coug95man2]

k

As you said, the Arizona game was still in October. We still had a slim chance at bowl eligibility and we had beaten Arizona in 2013. The main reason why I think the good attendance in 2014 was a trailing effect is a review of the 2012 & 2013 attendance numbers.

2012 (capacity 33,522)
EWU - 33,598 (everyone's excited for Leach!)
CU - 31,668
Cal - 27,339
UCLA - 28,110
UW - 30,544

2013 (capacity 32,740)
SUU - 31,127 (WSU at 1-1)
Idaho - 31,521 (WSU at 2-1)
OSU - 31,955 (WSU at 4-2)
ASU - 20,617 (WSU at 4-4)
Utah - 23,112 (WSU at 5-5)

Even though WSU was 4-2 for the first time since 2006, we couldn't sell out the stadium against Oregon State. The numbers plummeted from there as the season regressed and the weather got colder. Even with the excitement generated by the Leach hiring, we failed to sell out a single game in 2012 or 2013 after his initial game game against EWU. In all honesty, the early 2013 numbers were pretty good by WSU standards and nothing to sneeze at, but they look a lot like numbers from many other years at WSU. FWIW, I looked at 2006 and we finished that season with three official sell-outs. The biggest takeaway for me (and this is a compliment to Leach) is that WSU fans are back to where they believe in the program again. Getting to a bowl game in 2013 got everyone jacked up for 2014 and even though support was light for the USC game in 2014, the attendance was pretty good overall. Right now, there is more excitement around our program than there has been since at least 2006. That is a great thing.

All possible. I see your numbers, I looked at them as well. My initial point is, it's a compliment to CML, as you've said. He had a 3 win season and the kind of attendance he got is, IMHO, pretty darn good! What's the difference between any given 3 win season and last year? The coach and the programs progress, due to the coach. My only point. Not sure yours.

 

[Cougsocal]

Expansion? You are kidding, right? Nothing sadder than playing in a half empty stadium. Stanford and Cal built much smaller Bay Area stadiums because of it. USC and UCLA seldom sell out their big stadiums, in a city of 11 million. You first produce a quality product, then limit the supply to it, then you increase supply slowly, to maintain demand and the hot commodity buzz. Think Apple and the iphone, not some unused airport in the middle of Spain.

The highest demand for Cougar football was in 1994, 34,700 per game. We need to make Martin Stadium "the place to be," not a place for 2 for one deals hoping to put butts in the seats.

 

[wazzucougs96]

As you said, the Arizona game was still in October. We still had a slim chance at bowl eligibility and we had beaten Arizona in 2013. The main reason why I think the good attendance in 2014 was a trailing effect is a review of the 2012 & 2013 attendance numbers.

2012 (capacity 33,522)
EWU - 33,598 (everyone's excited for Leach!)
CU - 31,668
Cal - 27,339
UCLA - 28,110
UW - 30,544

2013 (capacity 32,740)
SUU - 31,127 (WSU at 1-1)
Idaho - 31,521 (WSU at 2-1)
OSU - 31,955 (WSU at 4-2)
ASU - 20,617 (WSU at 4-4)
Utah - 23,112 (WSU at 5-5)

Even though WSU was 4-2 for the first time since 2006, we couldn't sell out the stadium against Oregon State. The numbers plummeted from there as the season regressed and the weather got colder. Even with the excitement generated by the Leach hiring, we failed to sell out a single game in 2012 or 2013 after his initial game game against EWU. In all honesty, the early 2013 numbers were pretty good by WSU standards and nothing to sneeze at, but they look a lot like numbers from many other years at WSU. FWIW, I looked at 2006 and we finished that season with three official sell-outs. The biggest takeaway for me (and this is a compliment to Leach) is that WSU fans are back to where they believe in the program again. Getting to a bowl game in 2013 got everyone jacked up for 2014 and even though support was light for the USC game in 2014, the attendance was pretty good overall. Right now, there is more excitement around our program than there has been since at least 2006. That is a great thing.

Last year's Arizona game was Dad's weekend.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

k

All possible. I see your numbers, I looked at them as well. My initial point is, it's a compliment to CML, as you've said. He had a 3 win season and the kind of attendance he got is, IMHO, pretty darn good! What's the difference between any given 3 win season and last year? The coach and the programs progress, due to the coach. My only point. Not sure yours.

My point is that fans are showing up again because they believe that we are going to win home games again. Leach deserves credit for crafting a program that is winning games and creating that feeling. The attendance in 2013 tells you that it isn't just about the coaching style alone because the stadium was 1/3rd empty despite the fact that we were playing for bowl eligibility in that final game in 2013. Knowing the psychology of fans is undoubtedly beyond the expertise of any of us.

I did find the attendance figures for the 1998 Cougs (3-8 finish) and found the following on wikipedia.

1998
Illinois - 31,568
Idaho - 36,770
Oregon - 37,196
USC - 31,178
ASU - 34,039
UW - 37,251

The stadium was bigger back then, but we averaged 34,667 fans for that season. The next season dropped dramatically with 5 out of 7 games not hitting the 30,000 mark. Ironically, the attendance in 1997 was worse than that in 1998 (under 200,000 total). Again, my point is that fans show up when they feel that they are going to win and that bump often lasts for one season after a big season. 2007-2013 tells us that it gets pretty bad if the suckitude extends very long. Late season games become a wasteland.

But I'm probably wrong.

 

[Coug95man2]

My point is that fans are showing up again because they believe that we are going to win home games again. Leach deserves credit for crafting a program that is winning games and creating that feeling. The attendance in 2013 tells you that it isn't just about the coaching style alone because the stadium was 1/3rd empty despite the fact that we were playing for bowl eligibility in that final game in 2013. Knowing the psychology of fans is undoubtedly beyond the expertise of any of us.

I did find the attendance figures for the 1998 Cougs (3-8 finish) and found the following on wikipedia.

1998
Illinois - 31,568
Idaho - 36,770
Oregon - 37,196
USC - 31,178
ASU - 34,039
UW - 37,251

The stadium was bigger back then, but we averaged 34,667 fans for that season. The next season dropped dramatically with 5 out of 7 games not hitting the 30,000 mark. Ironically, the attendance in 1997 was worse than that in 1998 (under 200,000 total). Again, my point is that fans show up when they feel that they are going to win and that bump often lasts for one season after a big season. 2007-2013 tells us that it gets pretty bad if the suckitude extends very long. Late season games become a wasteland.

But I'm probably wrong.

Sounds logical. Like I said above, I'm probably looking at it through crimson tinted glasses.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Stanford, ASU and I had a good chuckle at this comment But yes, back to backs are typically tough draws.

Particularly if it is in November.

 

[YakiCoug]

I know Clarence D. Martin , (UW alum) gave money to rebuild the stadium after the fire, and his kids are present heirs. I get that. It's just a shame Moose does not develop a new campain to somehow get the Board of Regents and the Martin family to go ahead and release it's name, so we can call our venue, "Cougar Stadium". That would be the icing on the cake, don't you think?

Moose? Seriously?

 

[Suudy]

Moose? Seriously?

I'm guessing autocorrect. Bites the best of us.