Change my view: this is the ceiling for the Cougs under CML

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

And it comes down to recruiting.

Once again, we had a golden opportunity to make hay on our in state rivals, and once again the powers at WSU were asleep at the wheel and/ or unable to make an actual dent in the recruiting battle.

I too deluded myself that we were the Ducks v2.0; high powered offense with just enough defense to make games respectable. That simply isn't the case, though.

We just got our asses handed to us by the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference, and it wasn't even close. The talent gap and coaching gap was glaring. What's worse that that both teams managed to catch up and then pass us in half the time it took us to get to where we are currently.

I don't like beating up on our team, but that defense is BAD, and they got fat by beating up on a bunch of really bad teams in the P12 this year. The 4 teams that came in with a gameplan and some talent either gave them fits or outright beat them. Our linebacking corps is HORRIBLE. Possibly the worst I've ever seen on the Palouse. If not for Luani, every pass over the middle would have gone for 6. Barber, while looking like a stud against Sister Mary's Blind school, was completely absent for CU and UW, as was Hercules. Gesser told us Oguyau (sp, I know...) would be the next incarnation of Ike or DD. I saw Pippens break down 3 yards away from Ross and then get shook out of his shoes and THEN avoid contact. That secondary benefitted a TON from the front 7 being able to get pressure on the really bad OL's we played this year.

The offense, while supposed to be plug and play, couldn't even account for the absence of 1 guy in the WR corps. I don't want to hear shit about River be clutch or extraordinary, both of which he was, but that's kinda the requirements for the slot/ over the middle guy. So, apparently we aren't as deep/ talented at WR as we all assumed we were either.

OL seems solid. Not much to criticize there, other than they can't move the LOS for run plays against any formidable opponents. They can pass block their asses off though, and did all year.

RB seem solid.

Special teams - not sure how many college programs can build continuous success without a kicking game, but Leach seems determined to be the first one to do so.

While I am disappointed in the end of the season, this post is in no way an emotional reaction to losing. In fact, I've taken a lot of time and tried to think about why we lost and what it means about the program and for the program's future. My conclusion is that outside of some type of miracle recruiting boon, we will be mired in the 3-6/7 spot of the conference depending on how good or bad the other teams are.

Change my view.

 

[Coug95man2]

Seems you have your mind made up. As you've said, you've thought long and hard about it and are trying to be "unemotional" about it...

I guess I'm still basking in the concept that we are still growing. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that for us to be 3-6/7 in the conference, we've won significant games. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that for us to be 3-6/7 in the conference, we've won significant recruiting battles. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that, while we are still growing and "learning how to win", we have changed the "culture" of the program. I'd also suggest the recent success of other programs as an example of football raising the waterline for all other sports programs as well.

Dude, how does anyone know THIS is our ceiling? Crystal ball? And you are stating you are staying unemotional, undemonstrative or keeping anrestrained view? Sorry man. You are fooling yourself. If we get, even the Foster Farms Bowl, that is a real sign of improvement. We can't control how good/bad other teams are. But we handled those other teams well. EWU/BSU? OK. Not so much. We are not consistent. That is a sign of youth. I'm good with this.

While you outline things in a very cogent way, your overall tone is fairly emotional. Seems like the whole point of your post is to show how the football program didn't meet your expectations... Back up to the top paragraph, then, man. Sorry the AC stings. Stings for all of us. But WSU's football program is on the upswing, no doubt. Don't let the past decade of losing ways and that old mentality and culture seep back in, man. Be proud. We are Cougs. We have a lot be proud of. And it's growing, which IMHO is even more important.

 

[Fab5Coug]

This is the worst LB group you've ever seen at WSU?

 

[dgibbons]

And it comes down to recruiting.

Once again, we had a golden opportunity to make hay on our in state rivals, and once again the powers at WSU were asleep at the wheel and/ or unable to make an actual dent in the recruiting battle.

I too deluded myself that we were the Ducks v2.0; high powered offense with just enough defense to make games respectable. That simply isn't the case, though.

We just got our asses handed to us by the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference, and it wasn't even close. The talent gap and coaching gap was glaring. What's worse that that both teams managed to catch up and then pass us in half the time it took us to get to where we are currently.

I don't like beating up on our team, but that defense is BAD, and they got fat by beating up on a bunch of really bad teams in the P12 this year. The 4 teams that came in with a gameplan and some talent either gave them fits or outright beat them. Our linebacking corps is HORRIBLE. Possibly the worst I've ever seen on the Palouse. If not for Luani, every pass over the middle would have gone for 6. Barber, while looking like a stud against Sister Mary's Blind school, was completely absent for CU and UW, as was Hercules. Gesser told us Oguyau (sp, I know...) would be the next incarnation of Ike or DD. I saw Pippens break down 3 yards away from Ross and then get shook out of his shoes and THEN avoid contact. That secondary benefitted a TON from the front 7 being able to get pressure on the really bad OL's we played this year.

The offense, while supposed to be plug and play, couldn't even account for the absence of 1 guy in the WR corps. I don't want to hear shit about River be clutch or extraordinary, both of which he was, but that's kinda the requirements for the slot/ over the middle guy. So, apparently we aren't as deep/ talented at WR as we all assumed we were either.

OL seems solid. Not much to criticize there, other than they can't move the LOS for run plays against any formidable opponents. They can pass block their asses off though, and did all year.

RB seem solid.

Special teams - not sure how many college programs can build continuous success without a kicking game, but Leach seems determined to be the first one to do so.

While I am disappointed in the end of the season, this post is in no way an emotional reaction to losing. In fact, I've taken a lot of time and tried to think about why we lost and what it means about the program and for the program's future. My conclusion is that outside of some type of miracle recruiting boon, we will be mired in the 3-6/7 spot of the conference depending on how good or bad the other teams are.

Change my view.

I'm revising my view on Mike Price. After leading WSU to a Copper Bowl and an Alamo Bowl, 3rd to 4th place in the conference is his ceiling.


The handwringing over losing to a good uw team, that was playing very good football on Friday, really needs to end.

 

[CougPatrol]

Yes, this is the ceiling for the air raid. 7-2 conference record, bowl game, longest winning streak since 1930.

OK now, so what has the ceiling been for WSU over the past 100 years?

 

[dgibbons]

This is the worst LB group you've ever seen at WSU?

The Wulff era has been quickly forgotten.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You want better recruits?

The kid from Arkansas is a 4 star kid in Washington or Oregon. He eats the 4A KingCo alive. He demolishes the PIL. There is no one in the SPSL or GSL that would stop him. No one in the NW has an answer for him. This kid against the tackle from Graham Kapowsin, my money is on the f*cking future COUG!!!

You want recruiting, there it is.

 

[jarvis1981]

Well I don't believe the ceiling has been reached and I'm leaving the defense out of this discussion.
It's come down to one player on offense and it's the QB.
Falk, as good as he is, has one major weakness. He is not a true running threat.
Tell me if Falk could add the running ability of even a Browning that it wouldn't result in more points. ( I wonder how a Liufao would fit into a Mike Leach system? )
Don't get me wrong. Falk has been very good these last two years and he is a trooper, but if he had real running ability where he calls his own number 10 times a game with good results then the offense is really tough to stop. I don't know if Leach allows his QBs to run the ball often but other Air Raid / spread type teams have players who do. Point is that the offense has room for improvement. Food for thought at least.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well I don't believe the ceiling has been reached and I'm leaving the defense out of this discussion.
It's come down to one player on offense and it's the QB.
Falk, as good as he is, has one major weakness. He is not a true running threat.
Tell me if Falk could add the running ability of even a Browning that it wouldn't result in more points. ( I wonder how a Liufao would fit into a Mike Leach system? )
Don't get me wrong. Falk has been very good these last two years and he is a trooper, but if he had real running ability where he calls his own number 10 times a game with good results then the offense is really tough to stop. I don't know if Leach allows his QBs to run the ball often but other Air Raid / spread type teams have players who do. Point is that the offense has room for improvement. Food for thought at least.

You bring up an interesting point. QB's that run. But the next logical step to that is having an OL that would allow that. We have a pretty darn good OL but during the AC, it showed that we still have some growing to go. Of all the coaches we've ever had, CML knows this and I'm sure realizes whatever deficit we might have in that position. We still have some growth to go, no doubt. Even in the OL. But we are making some great strides. Before we have some RGBIII, we'll need an OL that would allow him to do so in the AC while playing #5 in the Nation... at least if we want to beat them...

"Rome wasn't built in a day!"

 

[dgibbons]

Well I don't believe the ceiling has been reached and I'm leaving the defense out of this discussion.
It's come down to one player on offense and it's the QB.
Falk, as good as he is, has one major weakness. He is not a true running threat.
Tell me if Falk could add the running ability of even a Browning that it wouldn't result in more points. ( I wonder how a Liufao would fit into a Mike Leach system? )
Don't get me wrong. Falk has been very good these last two years and he is a trooper, but if he had real running ability where he calls his own number 10 times a game with good results then the offense is really tough to stop. I don't know if Leach allows his QBs to run the ball often but other Air Raid / spread type teams have players who do. Point is that the offense has room for improvement. Food for thought at least.

At defensive end.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Seems you have your mind made up. As you've said, you've thought long and hard about it and are trying to be "unemotional" about it...

I guess I'm still basking in the concept that we are still growing. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that for us to be 3-6/7 in the conference, we've won significant games. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that for us to be 3-6/7 in the conference, we've won significant recruiting battles. I guess I'm still basking in the concept that, while we are still growing and "learning how to win", we have changed the "culture" of the program. I'd also suggest the recent success of other programs as an example of football raising the waterline for all other sports programs as well.

Dude, how does anyone know THIS is our ceiling? Crystal ball? And you are stating you are staying unemotional, undemonstrative or keeping anrestrained view? Sorry man. You are fooling yourself. If we get, even the Foster Farms Bowl, that is a real sign of improvement. We can't control how good/bad other teams are. But we handled those other teams well. EWU/BSU? OK. Not so much. We are not consistent. That is a sign of youth. I'm good with this.

While you outline things in a very cogent way, your overall tone is fairly emotional. Seems like the whole point of your post is to show how the football program didn't meet your expectations... Back up to the top paragraph, then, man. Sorry the AC stings. Stings for all of us. But WSU's football program is on the upswing, no doubt. Don't let the past decade of losing ways and that old mentality and culture seep back in, man. Be proud. We are Cougs. We have a lot be proud of. And it's growing, which IMHO is even more important.

They didn't live up to anyone's expectations, including their own, over the last two games. Hell, my expectations were to show up and be competitive, and while it can be argued that that happened at CU it in no way happened for AC, so yeah, expectations were not met.

And while I didn't state it, I'm not disappointed with our record and how we finished the season - well, that's a lie. I am disappointed, but I am still happy with winning 8 games.

I am simply shocked at, comparatively, how bad our D actually is. That defense will not win us a conference championship, and its the best D we've had since CML showed up.

I'm a little stunned at the apathy that the posters on here show towards how far behind the good teams this defense is. "Well, the dawgs are just good, so oh well..." THAT is the old mentality and culture - the apathy towards under performance; the excuse train of "we're still young." News flash - its college football, every team is almost always young. Having a team stacked full of juniors and senior starters is rare. It comes down to who has the better young players.

My expectations are that we win consistently (finish .500 or better) and catch lightning in a bottle every once in a while. What I saw from the last 2 games, we don't even have a bottle yet, which to me is disappointing. I simply thought the team was further along than that at this point, and that AC last year, CU, and the FCS losses were aberrations, not the norm.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You bring up an interesting point. QB's that run. But the next logical step to that is having an OL that would allow that. We have a pretty darn good OL but during the AC, it showed that we still have some growing to go. Of all the coaches we've ever had, CML knows this and I'm sure realizes whatever deficit we might have in that position. We still have some growth to go, no doubt. Even in the OL. But we are making some great strides. Before we have some RGBIII, we'll need an OL that would allow him to do so in the AC while playing #5 in the Nation... at least if we want to beat them...

"Rome wasn't built in a day!"

I don't think its an interesting point, I think it is a misguided point.

At no point has the Air Raid ever schemed in the run/ pass option. It is a pass first attack that takes advantage of... look, I'm not going to explain it, everyone here should know it, which is why I find it boggling that a few posters keep wanting to get Marcus Mariotta behind the helm. We don't need a guy who can run because the guy who is running the O correctly will get rid of the ball before pressure is there, ala Tom Brady. Falk's problem isn't that he can't run, its that he holds the ball for 10 seconds and then runs out of bounds for a 3 yard loss.

Now, if the suggestion is that CML completely revamp the offense, ditch the Air Raid and go to a run/option O, I would be open to that, though leery that we could consistently recruit the kids to make it successful.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well I don't believe the ceiling has been reached and I'm leaving the defense out of this discussion.
It's come down to one player on offense and it's the QB.
Falk, as good as he is, has one major weakness. He is not a true running threat.
Tell me if Falk could add the running ability of even a Browning that it wouldn't result in more points. ( I wonder how a Liufao would fit into a Mike Leach system? )
Don't get me wrong. Falk has been very good these last two years and he is a trooper, but if he had real running ability where he calls his own number 10 times a game with good results then the offense is really tough to stop. I don't know if Leach allows his QBs to run the ball often but other Air Raid / spread type teams have players who do. Point is that the offense has room for improvement. Food for thought at least.

I'd like to see Falk run more when receivers aren't open. Tuck it and take off for 4-6. Run out of bounds or slide, doesn't matter. Just keep the defense honest. And... I'd like to see Falk call his own number when the defense is dropping 8. Just take off for a few yards. Force the defense to limit the bodies in coverage by making them account for Falk running the ball. Not looking for a tough mudder or a hero, just enough to move the chains and maybe find some easy 2nd or 3rd and short yardage scenarios.

 

[Coug95man2]

I don't think its an interesting point, I think it is a misguided point.

At no point has the Air Raid ever schemed in the run/ pass option. It is a pass first attack that takes advantage of... look, I'm not going to explain it, everyone here should know it, which is why I find it boggling that a few posters keep wanting to get Marcus Mariotta behind the helm. We don't need a guy who can run because the guy who is running the O correctly will get rid of the ball before pressure is there, ala Tom Brady. Falk's problem isn't that he can't run, its that he holds the ball for 10 seconds and then runs out of bounds for a 3 yard loss.

Now, if the suggestion is that CML completely revamp the offense, ditch the Air Raid and go to a run/option O, I would be open to that, though leery that we could consistently recruit the kids to make it successful.

I understand the concept of our coaches philosophy. I wasn't lobbying for him to revamp. All I was saying was, if we had a QB that was an affective runner, we'd need to be looking at a line that could push and hold a bit more than what we have… at least if we were looking at advancing in the win column and whooping on CO or Ewe.

I'm good with CML's concepts. But we've always said Falk needs to run more. So why not allow him to do so with a massive lane? Why not be able to CALL that play instead of it being the last check, the relief valve IF he thinks about it. THAT is how our O could keep the D honest. If he could CALL that play and it be effective. It's a small minutia element but one that I think could be change the other teams D. We couldn't even run against CO or Ewe so to have an Oline where Falk could call the kinds of plays where he runs, would just add another wrinkle, IMHO. Once a game… maybe 2. And as I stated above, that would require a bigger, better Oline.

But no one is calling for the Air Raid v2.2 revamp, BC&G.

I'm OK with CML, our team and the season. You're the one sucking on sour grapes, man. I could stay exactly as is. Just a mental exercise.

 

[Coug82]

I suspect I may take some crap as I may for some be bordering on blasphemy , but so be it ... For those folks who want to bash Coach Leach and/or "ceilings" I suggest you consider as a comparison;. Coach Price is often revered by folks on this forum for his success as is evident by his selection to the WSU HOF --which I am not suggesting is not worthy-- but doesn't seem very fair and/or reasonable..

Some folks it appears want to negate Coach Leach's success due to his 1 Apple Cup victories in 5 tries. Coach Price's Apple Cup Record 3-11 if memory serves .. To obtain those 3 wins ? He needed #1 Over-all NFL Draft Pick, the best DEF in WSU history and one of the finest in the land in '94 and the #2 NFL Over-all Draft Pick ...

What's more? Once his teams ever fell out of Bowl Contention the Cougs were essentially done. Price could NEVER stop the losing once it began in November and not just Apple Cups. Seems to me that Coach Leach has 9 more attempts to match WSU's Hall of Fame Inductee

 

[BiggsCoug]

I understand the concept of our coaches philosophy. I wasn't lobbying for him to revamp. All I was saying was, if we had a QB that was an affective runner, we'd need to be looking at a line that could push and hold a bit more than what we have… at least if we were looking at advancing in the win column and whooping on CO or Ewe.

I'm good with CML's concepts. But we've always said Falk needs to run more. So why not allow him to do so with a massive lane? Why not be able to CALL that play instead of it being the last check, the relief valve IF he thinks about it. THAT is how our O could keep the D honest. If he could CALL that play and it be effective. It's a small minutia element but one that I think could be change the other teams D. We couldn't even run against CO or Ewe so to have an Oline where Falk could call the kinds of plays where he runs, would just add another wrinkle, IMHO. Once a game… maybe 2. And as I stated above, that would require a bigger, better Oline.

But no one is calling for the Air Raid v2.2 revamp, BC&G.

I'm OK with CML, our team and the season. You're the one sucking on sour grapes, man. I could stay exactly as is. Just a mental exercise.

The OL doesn't need to push anymore then it already does. QB draw. Any time the defense lines up with 3 down linemen Falk should be considering whether or not he tucks it and runs. He's got 5 on 3 at the line of scrimmage.

 

[chugspig]

Maybe not the worst LB core but definitely the slowest. Which doesn't work well when you are undersized.

 

[SideWaysDown]

And it comes down to recruiting.

Once again, we had a golden opportunity to make hay on our in state rivals, and once again the powers at WSU were asleep at the wheel and/ or unable to make an actual dent in the recruiting battle.

I too deluded myself that we were the Ducks v2.0; high powered offense with just enough defense to make games respectable. That simply isn't the case, though.

We just got our asses handed to us by the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference, and it wasn't even close. The talent gap and coaching gap was glaring. What's worse that that both teams managed to catch up and then pass us in half the time it took us to get to where we are currently.

I don't like beating up on our team, but that defense is BAD, and they got fat by beating up on a bunch of really bad teams in the P12 this year. The 4 teams that came in with a gameplan and some talent either gave them fits or outright beat them. Our linebacking corps is HORRIBLE. Possibly the worst I've ever seen on the Palouse. If not for Luani, every pass over the middle would have gone for 6. Barber, while looking like a stud against Sister Mary's Blind school, was completely absent for CU and UW, as was Hercules. Gesser told us Oguyau (sp, I know...) would be the next incarnation of Ike or DD. I saw Pippens break down 3 yards away from Ross and then get shook out of his shoes and THEN avoid contact. That secondary benefitted a TON from the front 7 being able to get pressure on the really bad OL's we played this year.

The offense, while supposed to be plug and play, couldn't even account for the absence of 1 guy in the WR corps. I don't want to hear shit about River be clutch or extraordinary, both of which he was, but that's kinda the requirements for the slot/ over the middle guy. So, apparently we aren't as deep/ talented at WR as we all assumed we were either.

OL seems solid. Not much to criticize there, other than they can't move the LOS for run plays against any formidable opponents. They can pass block their asses off though, and did all year.

RB seem solid.

Special teams - not sure how many college programs can build continuous success without a kicking game, but Leach seems determined to be the first one to do so.

While I am disappointed in the end of the season, this post is in no way an emotional reaction to losing. In fact, I've taken a lot of time and tried to think about why we lost and what it means about the program and for the program's future. My conclusion is that outside of some type of miracle recruiting boon, we will be mired in the 3-6/7 spot of the conference depending on how good or bad the other teams are.

Change my view.

Man, how times have changed. DId you picture the Cougs 8-4 at the start of the year? Me either. Maybe we should fire Leach since he only won 8 games, and clubbed some teams along the way. Welcome to Oregon.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I understand the concept of our coaches philosophy. I wasn't lobbying for him to revamp. All I was saying was, if we had a QB that was an affective runner, we'd need to be looking at a line that could push and hold a bit more than what we have… at least if we were looking at advancing in the win column and whooping on CO or Ewe.

I'm good with CML's concepts. But we've always said Falk needs to run more. So why not allow him to do so with a massive lane? Why not be able to CALL that play instead of it being the last check, the relief valve IF he thinks about it. THAT is how our O could keep the D honest. If he could CALL that play and it be effective. It's a small minutia element but one that I think could be change the other teams D. We couldn't even run against CO or Ewe so to have an Oline where Falk could call the kinds of plays where he runs, would just add another wrinkle, IMHO. Once a game… maybe 2. And as I stated above, that would require a bigger, better Oline.

But no one is calling for the Air Raid v2.2 revamp, BC&G.

I'm OK with CML, our team and the season. You're the one sucking on sour grapes, man. I could stay exactly as is. Just a mental exercise.

The point you are missing is that according to the CML philosophy, if the plays aren't working it's because the kids aren't executing. More specifically, Falk isn't making the right reads pre and post snap and/ or the recievers aren't finding the spaces in the defense.

I'd like to see us run the air raid as it should be run before we start tweaking with the system and putting our #1 offensive asset at more risk of getting injured.

If Falk is making a good read against 8 men in coverage and calling a run play that is getting stuffed, there is no reason to expect that him keeping the ball will result in a different outcome.

 

[longtimecoug]

And it comes down to recruiting.

Once again, we had a golden opportunity to make hay on our in state rivals, and once again the powers at WSU were asleep at the wheel and/ or unable to make an actual dent in the recruiting battle.

I too deluded myself that we were the Ducks v2.0; high powered offense with just enough defense to make games respectable. That simply isn't the case, though.

We just got our asses handed to us by the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference, and it wasn't even close. The talent gap and coaching gap was glaring. What's worse that that both teams managed to catch up and then pass us in half the time it took us to get to where we are currently.

I don't like beating up on our team, but that defense is BAD, and they got fat by beating up on a bunch of really bad teams in the P12 this year. The 4 teams that came in with a gameplan and some talent either gave them fits or outright beat them. Our linebacking corps is HORRIBLE. Possibly the worst I've ever seen on the Palouse. If not for Luani, every pass over the middle would have gone for 6. Barber, while looking like a stud against Sister Mary's Blind school, was completely absent for CU and UW, as was Hercules. Gesser told us Oguyau (sp, I know...) would be the next incarnation of Ike or DD. I saw Pippens break down 3 yards away from Ross and then get shook out of his shoes and THEN avoid contact. That secondary benefitted a TON from the front 7 being able to get pressure on the really bad OL's we played this year.

The offense, while supposed to be plug and play, couldn't even account for the absence of 1 guy in the WR corps. I don't want to hear shit about River be clutch or extraordinary, both of which he was, but that's kinda the requirements for the slot/ over the middle guy. So, apparently we aren't as deep/ talented at WR as we all assumed we were either.

OL seems solid. Not much to criticize there, other than they can't move the LOS for run plays against any formidable opponents. They can pass block their asses off though, and did all year.

RB seem solid.

Special teams - not sure how many college programs can build continuous success without a kicking game, but Leach seems determined to be the first one to do so.

While I am disappointed in the end of the season, this post is in no way an emotional reaction to losing. In fact, I've taken a lot of time and tried to think about why we lost and what it means about the program and for the program's future. My conclusion is that outside of some type of miracle recruiting boon, we will be mired in the 3-6/7 spot of the conference depending on how good or bad the other teams are.

Change my view.

if recruiting is so terrible leach must be one hell of a coach, back to back bowls with garbage talent. recruiting will steadily improve as the winning seasons pile up

 

[Coug95man2]

The point you are missing is that according to the CML philosophy, if the plays aren't working it's because the kids aren't executing. More specifically, Falk isn't making the right reads pre and post snap and/ or the recievers aren't finding the spaces in the defense.

I'd like to see us run the air raid as it should be run before we start tweaking with the system and putting our #1 offensive asset at more risk of getting injured.

If Falk is making a good read against 8 men in coverage and calling a run play that is getting stuffed, there is no reason to expect that him keeping the ball will result in a different outcome.

No. You are missing my point, when I say it's, "Just a mental exercise".

We aren't the coaches, BC&G. We have no input. Just talkin'. Thought I was clear on that point. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers more than they already were. Sheesh.

 

[froropmkr72]

No. You are missing my point, when I say it's, "Just a mental exercise".

We aren't the coaches, BC&G. We have no input. Just talkin'. Thought I was clear on that point. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers more than they already were. Sheesh.

I think recruiting is going well. We have 2 top JC linemen, a very productive JC WR, 4 large HS Olinemen and the d-backs (identified quickly) have multiple offers. We need one or two of the CB's visiting, DT, a couple tall and fast linebackers and the JC safety (Brian Cole, East Mississippi). If any other highly regarded players want to come and perhaps you've got enough numbers at the position......you take them anyway. What if another Olineman wants to verbal, is a can't miss athlete with multiple offers.....you recruit 6 olinemen. What if 2 of the CB's visiting want to verbal? You take them both. I really like how they're recruiting at the DE position in numbers and height. 220 today...6-5 and 255-260 in 2 years. Just keep it going. What if both a stud HS DT and JC DT want to verbal? You take them both.

 

[Coug95man2]

I think recruiting is going well. We have 2 top JC linemen, a very productive JC WR, 4 large HS Olinemen and the d-backs (identified quickly) have multiple offers. We need one or two of the CB's visiting, DT, a couple tall and fast linebackers and the JC safety (Brian Cole, East Mississippi). If any other highly regarded players want to come and perhaps you've got enough numbers at the position......you take them anyway. What if another Olineman wants to verbal, is a can't miss athlete with multiple offers.....you recruit 6 olinemen. What if 2 of the CB's visiting want to verbal? You take them both. I really like how they're recruiting at the DE position in numbers and height. 220 today...6-5 and 255-260 in 2 years. Just keep it going. What if both a stud HS DT and JC DT want to verbal? You take them both.

I agree. And I believe it's improving.

In a generic sense, I think our recruiting has been outstanding. Part of the reason I'm stoked, is not just the obligatory "#52 Nationally" ranking that we are perennially at... or so it seems. We have to remember, we are getting transfers that never make the list. This seems to happen almost every year. We get a surprise almost every year AFTER LOI day, as well. If not a weird transfer a late commit. If those guys were placed into the service rankings, I'd surmise we'd be doing very well in those standings... for those that are eyeballing them.

Our Oline is big. Cole Madison by the way, has been graded out as the Top-Graded OT in College football by PFF College Football. Part of the reason? He's allowed only 2 sacks on 648 pass block snaps. Does Falk get rid of the ball quick? Sometimes. But Falk also throws it a boatload per game. And Madison still has to "hold the line" the whole time. O'Connell is also getting a bunch of accolades. We are doing well in that position.

I like how our Dline is forming up. Someone outlined on another thread, how it appears we are making a transition in our formation. I like that, if it comes to fruition. I don't know if I give a rip regarding the 3/4 vs. 4/3, as long as we recruit to that formation. THAT is key, IMHO. BUT we aren't making some transition overnight and throwing the whole side of the ball into a different situation. To slowly make that transition makes sense. Like it, if it's true.

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

Love how the Goalpost's get moved for some of your “ANTI LEACH FANS”

Let’s take a look at Price’s Body of Work at WSU.

Keep in mind, from 1993-2000 (excluding 1997 Rose Bowl Year) he was a pitiful 4-24 the final four games of each of those seasons combined.


1989 Washington State 6–5 8th

1990 Washington State 3–8 9th

1991 Washington State 4–7 T–6th

1992 Washington State 9–3 T–3rd

1993 Washington State 5–6 7th

1994 Washington State 8–4 4th

1995 Washington State 3–8 T–8th

1996 Washington State 5–6 T–8th

1997 Washington State 10–2 T–1st

1998 Washington State 3–8 10th

1999 Washington State 3–9 10th

2000 Washington State 4–7 T–8th

2001 Washington State 10–2 T–2nd

2002 Washington State 10–3 T–1st

 

[Fab5Coug]

I don't think its an interesting point, I think it is a misguided point.

At no point has the Air Raid ever schemed in the run/ pass option. It is a pass first attack that takes advantage of... look, I'm not going to explain it, everyone here should know it, which is why I find it boggling that a few posters keep wanting to get Marcus Mariotta behind the helm. We don't need a guy who can run because the guy who is running the O correctly will get rid of the ball before pressure is there, ala Tom Brady. Falk's problem isn't that he can't run, its that he holds the ball for 10 seconds and then runs out of bounds for a 3 yard loss.

Now, if the suggestion is that CML completely revamp the offense, ditch the Air Raid and go to a run/option O, I would be open to that, though leery that we could consistently recruit the kids to make it successful.

Well, they're recruiting the Alabama transfer, who is a dual threat QB, so maybe Leach isn't completely opposed to implementing it to some degree.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well, they're recruiting the Alabama transfer, who is a dual threat QB, so maybe Leach isn't completely opposed to implementing it to some degree.

If the defense is gonna drop 8 and your receivers are gonna drop balls you still have to move the chains. Run the ball. Whether it's your QB or your RBs you have to keep the defense honest. You can't just throw up your hands and give up because you can't move the chains thru the air.

QB draw, run/pass option play, tuck it for 5 yards when the receivers are covered... Something, anything to keep the drive alive and the chains moving. 1st downs lead to touchdowns. You probably don't need to even do it more then a half dozen times per game.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

And it comes down to recruiting.

Once again, we had a golden opportunity to make hay on our in state rivals, and once again the powers at WSU were asleep at the wheel and/ or unable to make an actual dent in the recruiting battle.

I too deluded myself that we were the Ducks v2.0; high powered offense with just enough defense to make games respectable. That simply isn't the case, though.

We just got our asses handed to us by the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference, and it wasn't even close. The talent gap and coaching gap was glaring. What's worse that that both teams managed to catch up and then pass us in half the time it took us to get to where we are currently.

I don't like beating up on our team, but that defense is BAD, and they got fat by beating up on a bunch of really bad teams in the P12 this year. The 4 teams that came in with a gameplan and some talent either gave them fits or outright beat them. Our linebacking corps is HORRIBLE. Possibly the worst I've ever seen on the Palouse. If not for Luani, every pass over the middle would have gone for 6. Barber, while looking like a stud against Sister Mary's Blind school, was completely absent for CU and UW, as was Hercules. Gesser told us Oguyau (sp, I know...) would be the next incarnation of Ike or DD. I saw Pippens break down 3 yards away from Ross and then get shook out of his shoes and THEN avoid contact. That secondary benefitted a TON from the front 7 being able to get pressure on the really bad OL's we played this year.

The offense, while supposed to be plug and play, couldn't even account for the absence of 1 guy in the WR corps. I don't want to hear shit about River be clutch or extraordinary, both of which he was, but that's kinda the requirements for the slot/ over the middle guy. So, apparently we aren't as deep/ talented at WR as we all assumed we were either.

OL seems solid. Not much to criticize there, other than they can't move the LOS for run plays against any formidable opponents. They can pass block their asses off though, and did all year.

RB seem solid.

Special teams - not sure how many college programs can build continuous success without a kicking game, but Leach seems determined to be the first one to do so.

While I am disappointed in the end of the season, this post is in no way an emotional reaction to losing. In fact, I've taken a lot of time and tried to think about why we lost and what it means about the program and for the program's future. My conclusion is that outside of some type of miracle recruiting boon, we will be mired in the 3-6/7 spot of the conference depending on how good or bad the other teams are.

Change my view.

This may be a somewhat controversial statement, but teams that rise to beat opponents with more talent need extraordinary leadership from key teammates. They need guys that have an unbelievable drive to win against all odds. Leaders that push their teammates on the field every play. We didn't have that this season. I'd start at the QB position, for example. We had that with Gesser, Leaf, and Rosie. Now? Not so much.

This is not to excuse the coaching staff...just to be clear.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

If the defense is gonna drop 8 and your receivers are gonna drop balls you still have to move the chains. Run the ball. Whether it's your QB or your RBs you have to keep the defense honest. You can't just throw up your hands and give up because you can't move the chains thru the air.

QB draw, run/pass option play, tuck it for 5 yards when the receivers are covered... Something, anything to keep the drive alive and the chains moving. 1st downs lead to touchdowns. You probably don't need to even do it more then a half dozen times per game.

Totally agree. Why not have that weapon? It makes it much harder for defenses.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Totally agree. Why not have that weapon? It makes it much harder for defenses.

The funny thing is that no one is bitching about a running qb or Falk not being Browing when he completes 75% of his passes for 400+ yards and multiple touchdowns. I wonder why that is? Could it be that the Air Raid is actually being executed correctly and Falk is making all the right reads and getting rid of the ball on time?

 

[CougPatrol]

I've read Leach's books and have heard him speak on the topic of QB recruitment (I'm sure you guys have too), and his logic is that you can't coach or develop accuracy, and that's what matters most in his system.

A lot of the cannon armed 4 and 5 star kids out there can't consistently hit a 10 yard out pattern. It's so true, too. How many times have you watched a power program like LSU, USC, Penn State, Michigan, etc. field a QB who is seemingly incapable of making basic throws?

Another consideration is that the more mobile a QB is, the more hits he takes. In Leach's system, the QB is already throwing the ball 60+ times/game, so having him run the ball a dozen times seems like a great way to be playing conference games with your backup QB.

If we can find a mobile QB in the mold of an Andrew Luck, that would be OK. Big, strong, pocket passer who is able to get down field when he needs to. Otherwise, I'm not sure I want Leach's offense to change too much. I think we're in a good place with the stable of running backs we have. As they continue to mature, I expect they'll help to fill void that Cracraft filled. Maybe not the downfield threat, but 2 RB sets can be a lot to cover underneath when you have talent at the WR position, which we will

 

[CougPatrol]

What has kept us from being just an upper tier P12 team and not a champion the past 2 years is defense. Period. Running QBs don't light up the scoreboard every week either (see Russell Wilson). Eventually, you need to play defense. Bad weather, good opponents, trouble on your o-line, whatever....

You can't fall behind 28-3 before they're done singing the National anthem and talk about your shortcomings on offense.

 

[Coug95man2]

The funny thing is that no one is bitching about a running qb or Falk not being Browing when he completes 75% of his passes for 400+ yards and multiple touchdowns. I wonder why that is? Could it be that the Air Raid is actually being executed correctly and Falk is making all the right reads and getting rid of the ball on time?

Quite possible! But personally, I'm also looking at how to defeat the likes of Jake Browning, as well! We were limp'er than a wet hotdog for the game but even if we were firing on all cylinders, we'd have had a hard time. "Suckers Punch" is what we had, IMHO, if we were having our A game. So how could we improve? I'd say calling more QB runs. Not a lot but intentional runs by Falk. 1... maybe 2 a half. Thats all.

Curious why you are so against the concept though? I'm a 100% CML supporter. Have been from day 1. Hell, he's the reason I stopped lurking and started posting! But man... it's obvious the Air Raid has evolved. Falk is very comfortable calling the run. And that has helped. We all agree with that, don't we? But we had to have an Oline that could support that. Now, with so many of our Oline being Juniors, think what next year brings! Why not truly PLAN for a QB sneak every once in a blue moon? Falk has adjusted the Air Raid and done so with success. Why so resistant to just the idea?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Quite possible! But personally, I'm also looking at how to defeat the likes of Jake Browning, as well! We were limp'er than a wet hotdog for the game but even if we were firing on all cylinders, we'd have had a hard time. "Suckers Punch" is what we had, IMHO, if we were having our A game. So how could we improve? I'd say calling more QB runs. Not a lot but intentional runs by Falk. 1... maybe 2 a half. Thats all.

Curious why you are so against the concept though? I'm a 100% CML supporter. Have been from day 1. Hell, he's the reason I stopped lurking and started posting! But man... it's obvious the Air Raid has evolved. Falk is very comfortable calling the run. And that has helped. We all agree with that, don't we? But we had to have an Oline that could support that. Now, with so many of our Oline being Juniors, think what next year brings! Why not truly PLAN for a QB sneak every once in a blue moon? Falk has adjusted the Air Raid and done so with success. Why so resistant to just the idea?

CP touched on it a little bit - more risk of injury. As it is, we have opposing defenses launching themselves at him, and iirc, the hit he took from UCLA last year was when he was running (the UCLA guy turned himself into a helmet seeking missle.)

Again, you are calling for a qb run in the right situation, which I would assume would mean favorable numbers. In this case, why not just hand it to the rb and save your qb the potential injury, as well as give it to the guy who has the wheels to actually make something happen. Also, we have seen him call for the run correctly, in both the CU and UW game and it got stuffed - the issue isn't that we aren't taking advantage of what they are giving us, its that those DL were winning the LOS, plain and simple. No amount of qb sneakery is going to work unless the OL can get a push.

Would it be useful to have a guy who is a little more mobile in case the pocket breaks down and he can Russel Wilson his way to a 1st? Sure. But my eyeballs and memory tell me that guys like that tend to give up on the downfield play in favor of their legs more often than would be preferable in the Air Raid. Additionally, we aren't experiencing pocket issues, we're experiencing downfield coverage issues, in which case Falk should have called a run anyway - right?

I'm usually not so black and white on things - this whole thread was meant as a devil's advocate type thing just to get discussion going, but on the idea of a "running" or dual threat qb, I don't think it would be beneficial for the overall scheme for the reasons listed above. Again, Brady does a great job passing the ball and virtually never runs.