For the third time this season. We’ll likely need another to make bowl eligibility.
Gordon was Pac-12 Offensive Player of the Week
- Thread starter dgibbons
- Start date
How about Defense and special teams next week. M Strong, 3 picks, 1 a pick six, 10 tackles, 2 tfl.
On special teams T. Harris, a kickoff and punt return both for TD's
On special teams T. Harris, a kickoff and punt return both for TD's
I think he did just fine.
But one example from last Saturday. Start of a drive to west EZ (Crimzone). Patmon is running an out to the left sideline and is WIIIIIDE open. I have time to stand up and yell "Patmon!" along with several others. AG is flushed out to the left and finally sees him then throws it short, incomplete. I'm not saying it is a necessarily a pattern, but it was blatantly obvious he didn't even look left on that one.
I think thats the difference between a GM and the others:
GM would have known pre-snap to give Patmon a look.
Its kinda the bugaboo if the AR, which is- if you wait long enough one if those crossers over the middle is going to be open, and if it isnt just check down. Its not necessarily conducive to forcing a qb to make ALL his reads.
That being said, if AG can do what hes doing with his known limitations I think its a great testament to the talent surrounding him.
As an aside: Suudy, you were there: was it windy? AGs lack of touch/accuracy on any pass over 15 yards was a bit startling. Especially given that Mills was bombing 40 yard passes with ridiculous accuracy.
It was just a bad pass. It was the mesh/drag where the Z runs the full width of the field. Same pattern where he hit Easop for the first TD.
They usually don't throw downfield more than about 30 yards.
It was just a bad pass. It was bad because he was running. But the issue on that one was that Patmon was open well before AG scrambled. He had time to plant his feet and make a quality throw, had he been looking left.
The idea that GM was some sort of air raid god is odd to me. I have been hesitant to say anything because it is thought of as sac religious among Coug fans. If you think he didn’t miss wide open receivers you are fooling yourself. Go back and watch the Apple cup all 22. He didn’t throw to guys running uncovered all first half. Go back and watch the Cal all 22 he missed players back side all game.
At this point in the year here are the conclusions I think are fair about Gardner vs AG
-Gardner has an infectious personality making him very easy to root for.
- Gardner seemed to be a great leader by all accounts.
- Gardner has a much better defense opposite him boosting his win %
- Gardner has a better offensive line (especially blind side).
-Gordon has a more experienced group of WR
- Gordon has been more efficient by most measures of a QB (QBR, PR, YPA). These are not “individual stats” that ppl love to discredit, but measures of a players efficacy on the field.
At the end of the day Gardner got more wins. And that is what will be remembered. How much of that is due to the defense? If we could get some of the stops we got in 17 or 18 we would have 8 wins right now.
Interestingly, you bring up the only two Justin Wilcox defenses (including the legacy of, at UW) which have consistently shut down EVERY WSU QB.
Did you know that in our last 6 games vs Cal & UW (last 3 years), we have averaged 14.7 pts per game? And that we have not scored more than 20 points against either opponent since 2016?
In any event, constipated Minshew just isn't the case outside of the AC and our annual "weird" grind-it-out defensive loss to Cal.
GM was hardly ever caught flat-footed scanning their field for a WR outside of those two games. He knew where the open area of the field was going to he and threw there. He was decisive in a way we've not seen in another AR qb.
Idgaf about the defense; no doubt they contributed to the 11 wins last year, but they arent relevant to what we're discussing.
We are strictly speaking about qb mechanics and the ability to run the AR.
And about the currentcur: no doubt they have their blemishes, but they are back to having to block for Falkian amounts of time while AG looks and looks and looks to find someone open. Again, GM got rid of the ball quickly or threw it away, which Im sure helped the OL in the appearance department.
Interesting thoughts. How do you reconcile your perception that GM is a superior air raid QB with Gordon’s higher EFFICACY statics?
I have a hard time believing our WR are that much better than last year.
Would be interesting to compare the defenses they played as that might lend an answer.
Actually, I can't.
I went and checked. Statistically, AG is a much better qb than GM.
My point would be, therefore, full of sh!t.
I am obviously suffering from not fully appreciating how god awful the defense is and falling into the classic trap of over-focusing on the qb. That being said, I've been trying to not be (too) critical of AG because he is obviously producing, despite any perceived failings by message board experts.
So I guess to sum it up: as to AG as a qb, I'm going to stfu for the rest of the season.
First off GM and AG are different, and no real need to compare the two, but stats don't always tell the story or really ever tell the entire story. I view AG as a better CH, only because I think CH quit on games and would just start chucking the ball downfield, I think AG stays with the game, but has a real desire to chuck it deep that at times can be costly. With GM at WSU, he had a similar quality that I feel about Russel Wilson for the Seahawks, down 6 late in the 4th if he had the ball, I 100% believe we will get down the field and win. Forget how the rest of the game went, come through in the clutch. I honestly from game one this year, felt with AG, he lacked that moxy/composure/leadership for that quality. Doesn't meen he hasnt had a huge year numbers wise and he doesn't give us a chance to win on the offensive side, but whatever "it" is, just don't see it in him. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's the big difference in the two IMO.
This seems to be a common thread amount many coug fans. The fact that Gardner had the “it” factor. I struggle with this as it is hard to quantify. As for him leading us down field late in games—this is a fair point. I would also argue that AG has done the same twice but didn’t have a defense that could back him up.
It's human nature to want to compare this year's QB with last year's exceptional QB. It may not be fair, but I don't blame anyone for doing so. But as I wrote a couple of weeks ago, if Minshew is now the standard by which all WSU QBs are going to be judged, there's going to be a lot of disappointment, if for no other reason, 11-2 is hard to repeat. I suspect next year's QB will face a lot of comparisons with Gordon, fair or not. My own opinion is that if you offered me a QB next year with the exact same qualities & productivity as Gordon, I'd take it in a heartbeat. We may end up with somebody better, especially in the area of leadership, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
