Here we go again

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

BX is pushing for the missing man formation this Saturday..

I really don't care either way; WSU already has something planned to honor TH and his family.

But now, in classic BX fashion, they've begun the narrative that would imply that if WSU doesnt run the missing man that they arent honoring his memory, or at least not doing enough.

 

[95coug]

BX is pushing for the missing man formation this Saturday..

I really don't care either way; WSU already has something planned to honor TH and his family.

But now, in classic BX fashion, they've begun the narrative that would imply that if WSU doesnt run the missing man that they arent honoring his memory, or at least not doing enough.

There’s a time for the missing man. It isn’t 22 months later.
I think it’ll be a big (and overdue) step if they just allow his name to be said out loud.

 

[ShockandAweWSU]

Didn't BX request the 10 man formation after Wulff got fired as well. Best decision I ever made was to drop that website and spend that $$ towards the CAF.

 

[froropmkr72]

Didn't BX request the 10 man formation after Wulff got fired as well. Best decision I ever made was to drop that website and spend that $$ towards the CAF.

They are JOURNALISTS! They did hang their hat on a guy who landed a big gig here at the local Fox station as a beat reporter.

 

[ElComanche]

Journalists? That is a big joke Those little nerds have trouble finding a hole in the ground or vice versa.

 

[Coug95man2]

Journalists? That is a big joke Those little nerds have trouble finding a hole in the ground or vice versa.

ElC, I disagree whole heartedly. They fall into holes all the time without even looking. They also stick their heads in the sand, thus creating holes, their "journalism" has holes in it... I can go on and on. Everything about them... holes.

 

[froropmkr72]

Journalists? That is a big joke Those little nerds have trouble finding a hole in the ground or vice versa.

Thought you'd dig that one

 

[Flatlandcoug]

BX is pushing for the missing man formation this Saturday..

I really don't care either way; WSU already has something planned to honor TH and his family.

But now, in classic BX fashion, they've begun the narrative that would imply that if WSU doesnt run the missing man that they arent honoring his memory, or at least not doing enough.

FWIW, I think it would be a nice gesture by everyone involved if they did the missing man thing. However, I don't believe for a second that WSU, OSU or any other U has an obligation to do it. As far as Brand X and their journalism, they definitely screwed up a good thing when they decided that it was their job to support Wulff at the expense of others. I wouldn't know how they are these days, because I avoid the place, but every once in a while, a BX story shows up on Facebook or the internet that isn't terrible. They did a Jack Thompson bit the other day that a friend sent me that was kind of funny.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I hope Brand X management and their acolytes won't turn against Coach Leach if he decides not to follow through on their suggestion.

CML doesn’t seem like the type of leader who responds positively in being told how to run his program.

For that matter, is Coach Leach still boycotting Brand X questions at his press conferences?

 

[cr8zyncalif]

OK, I'm going to treat this as a fully serious thread and therefore give a fully serious comment. This is, of course, solely my opinion and therefore has no real value or importance to those most impacted by the decision.

When somebody in a unit goes down a missing man effort in some form or fashion is generally appropriate.

If for some reason this is not done at the individual's funeral or other memorial ceremony, it should be done at the first logical opportunity thereafter.

The more time that passes between the loss and the observance, the greater the questions as to why the process was delayed.

If for some reason the group seeking to honor the fallen (in this case, WSU) has consciously or unconsciously chosen to avoid any real form of recognition for almost 2 years, there needs to be a credible answer to the question: "Why now?"

There may be several potential answers to that question, and many would not conflict with others. Maybe the family is ready now. Maybe the family has actually requested it recently. Maybe the family requested it earlier but the institution was not ready. Maybe with the passage of time the institution feels the need to do something. Maybe members of the team from 2 years ago are now ready and have requested it. I could think of other potential answers if I gave it some time.

Ultimately for me it all comes down to intent. If honoring the fallen and expressing heartfelt sentiment is the intent, then I guess I'm in the camp that would say, "better late than never". I recall at least one Vietnam era death in my small E WA town that was not observed formally for several years. While there may have been several reasons for the delay, at least one that I'm sure of is that people in the community were not ready yet, and the family wanted it to be as close to a community observance as seemed likely to be possible.

While I sometimes find Bx to be in right field, I see nothing wrong with beating this particular drum. So long as they don't question the feelings of those who disagree with them (a boundary they've exceeded a few times in the past), I see nothing wrong with advocating for something for Tyler. I don't know enough about how the Hilinski's feel about this or the hows/whys of the university's response to have a firm opinion on the matter.

Regardless of whether something is done, or not, I won't be bent out of shape either way. Not every nice thought fits a given set of circumstances, and that includes a missing man for Tyler.

 

[TZCoug84]

OK, I'm going to treat this as a fully serious thread and therefore give a fully serious comment. This is, of course, solely my opinion and therefore has no real value or importance to those most impacted by the decision.

When somebody in a unit goes down a missing man effort in some form or fashion is generally appropriate.

If for some reason this is not done at the individual's funeral or other memorial ceremony, it should be done at the first logical opportunity thereafter.

The more time that passes between the loss and the observance, the greater the questions as to why the process was delayed.

If for some reason the group seeking to honor the fallen (in this case, WSU) has consciously or unconsciously chosen to avoid any real form of recognition for almost 2 years, there needs to be a credible answer to the question: "Why now?"

There may be several potential answers to that question, and many would not conflict with others. Maybe the family is ready now. Maybe the family has actually requested it recently. Maybe the family requested it earlier but the institution was not ready. Maybe with the passage of time the institution feels the need to do something. Maybe members of the team from 2 years ago are now ready and have requested it. I could think of other potential answers if I gave it some time.

Ultimately for me it all comes down to intent. If honoring the fallen and expressing heartfelt sentiment is the intent, then I guess I'm in the camp that would say, "better late than never". I recall at least one Vietnam era death in my small E WA town that was not observed formally for several years. While there may have been several reasons for the delay, at least one that I'm sure of is that people in the community were not ready yet, and the family wanted it to be as close to a community observance as seemed likely to be possible.

While I sometimes find Bx to be in right field, I see nothing wrong with beating this particular drum. So long as they don't question the feelings of those who disagree with them (a boundary they've exceeded a few times in the past), I see nothing wrong with advocating for something for Tyler. I don't know enough about how the Hilinski's feel about this or the hows/whys of the university's response to have a firm opinion on the matter.

Regardless of whether something is done, or not, I won't be bent out of shape either way. Not every nice thought fits a given set of circumstances, and that includes a missing man for Tyler.

Great post.

I'm fine with the university's response -- I assume that the university is getting good advice from mental health professionals and acting accordingly. As for me, I will be at the game and will make it a point to be in the stadium to honor Tyler and the rest of the seniors, wearing my Hilinski's Hope bracelet, and will continue to support that organization.

 

[Cougsocal]

I just doesn’t get it. Tyler committed an extraordinarily self-centered and selfish act. I can’t even imagine the emotional distress and trauma he caused his family. If anyone of my 5 children did that out of the blue, I would be completely destroyed and so would the rest of my family. Mourn Tyler’s passing, commiserate with his family, have a PSA on mental health, but Tyler was not a hero on the field or off, any more than Buddy Waldron was. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Leave a heroes tribute for heroes. Do this for Tyler, … what do you do for a real heros like Mike Utley and Steve Gleason, whom turn tragedy into portraits in courage.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

SoCal, I understand your comment. Unfortunately I have more real world familiarity with suicide & its aftermath than I'd like to have, and maybe I can offer a perspective that helps. First, parenting skills 101 is learning to separate the child from the behavior...there are no bad kids, only bad behavior. What may not be so obvious is that suicide is, unfortunately, an immediate outcome of behavior. In most cases, depression is a key causative. The results of the act can be seen as selfish, and if the person taking the action were in his/her right mind, that would probably have been something they would have recognized...and that alone may have been enough to prevent the suicide all together. Certainly, saying that the family left behind is destroyed is not hyperbole; I'd prefer another adjective (shattered comes to mind), but the concept is accurate regardless of the choice of words. I'm speaking as a layman in this, but it is my perception based on more experience than I'd like to have that without the logic-disconnecting impact of depression, most suicides would simply not happen. With this in mind, I don't consider a missing man effort to be the honoring of a hero, which I agree is not a fit for the situation. Instead, for me personally the missing man seems appropriate because, literally, we miss him. It is, like any good wake, the closing of a loop when we've moved through denial, anger, bargaining and depression, and are helped in reaching acceptance by celebrating the kid, not the behavior.

 

[95coug]

OK, I'm going to treat this as a fully serious thread and therefore give a fully serious comment. This is, of course, solely my opinion and therefore has no real value or importance to those most impacted by the decision.

When somebody in a unit goes down a missing man effort in some form or fashion is generally appropriate.

If for some reason this is not done at the individual's funeral or other memorial ceremony, it should be done at the first logical opportunity thereafter.

The more time that passes between the loss and the observance, the greater the questions as to why the process was delayed.

If for some reason the group seeking to honor the fallen (in this case, WSU) has consciously or unconsciously chosen to avoid any real form of recognition for almost 2 years, there needs to be a credible answer to the question: "Why now?"

Great post.

I'm fine with the university's response -- I assume that the university is getting good advice from mental health professionals and acting accordingly. As for me, I will be at the game and will make it a point to be in the stadium to honor Tyler and the rest of the seniors, wearing my Hilinski's Hope bracelet, and will continue to support that organization.

I just doesn’t get it. Tyler committed an extraordinarily self-centered and selfish act. I can’t even imagine the emotional distress and trauma he caused his family. If anyone of my 5 children did that out of the blue, I would be completely destroyed and so would the rest of my family. Mourn Tyler’s passing, commiserate with his family, have a PSA on mental health, but Tyler was not a hero on the field or off, any more than Buddy Waldron was. Let’s not pretend otherwise. Leave a heroes tribute for heroes. Do this for Tyler, … what do you do for a real heros like Mike Utley and Steve Gleason, whom turn tragedy into portraits in courage.

There's a lot here, and obviously this is all opinion, but...

I agree that the "missing man" is appropriate when somebody goes down. If they'd started the 2018 season with no QB on the field, I would have been 100% on board. Doing it almost 2 years after the fact seems a little forced. Add to that 2 graduations and simple attrition, and somewhere near half the guys who were on the roster with Tyler are gone, replaced by guys who never knew him. That kind of makes this sort of on-field recognition ring a little hollow.

Personally, I've never been fine with the university's response. I know they got the advice that they shouldn't acknowledge, and shouldn't use his name, etc. I think that's crap. Using his name in conjunction with his family raising the flag last year would have been appropriate, and their refusal to do so was forced and awkward. I don't buy for a second that any other students would have killed themselves because Glenn Johnson mentioned his name. Say his name, mourn him without celebrating his actions, and back it up with resources. His family is now proving how that can be done. WSU and HH should be great natural partners, instead WSU botched their handling of this and alienated the family and their organization.

Suicide is, at its core, a selfish act, and always fails to consider the impact on those left behind. But you can acknowledge him without celebrating him. Don't make him a hero, make him a cautionary tale. Ultimately, his story is not a warning for those who are depressed or have mental health struggles - it's a warning for those around people who are struggling. Again, something his family is now doing. I also don't think it's fair to compare Tyler and Buddy Waldron, the situations are only very vaguely comparable.

So, here's my thoughts on Saturday:
Reality is that this will be the last time his name belongs in the stadium. After that, he's just another semi-anonymous former player who appears in old highlights. His recruiting class is playing their last game. He should be too. Invite his parents. Let his teammates bring out his jersey, give his mom a rose and a hug. Say his name, and show his face on the scoreboard. Let the crowd give his family another standing O. And then play the mental health PSA right after the acknowledgement of seniors.

And that's it. No missing man, no further discussion. Go back to 2019 football.

 

[CougEd]

SoCal, I understand your comment. Unfortunately I have more real world familiarity with suicide & its aftermath than I'd like to have, and maybe I can offer a perspective that helps. First, parenting skills 101 is learning to separate the child from the behavior...there are no bad kids, only bad behavior. What may not be so obvious is that suicide is, unfortunately, an immediate outcome of behavior. In most cases, depression is a key causative. The results of the act can be seen as selfish, and if the person taking the action were in his/her right mind, that would probably have been something they would have recognized...and that alone may have been enough to prevent the suicide all together. Certainly, saying that the family left behind is destroyed is not hyperbole; I'd prefer another adjective (shattered comes to mind), but the concept is accurate regardless of the choice of words. I'm speaking as a layman in this, but it is my perception based on more experience than I'd like to have that without the logic-disconnecting impact of depression, most suicides would simply not happen. With this in mind, I don't consider a missing man effort to be the honoring of a hero, which I agree is not a fit for the situation. Instead, for me personally the missing man seems appropriate because, literally, we miss him. It is, like any good wake, the closing of a loop when we've moved through denial, anger, bargaining and depression, and are helped in reaching acceptance by celebrating the kid, not the behavior.

This is a really tough one. I totally get Socal's position, and to be honest I am not sure I would have a different emotional reaction. I also think that TH's story can help so many, but to be honest it is a confusing story at this point. And maybe it is because I misread the story, or the story is incomplete, or people just don't know.

The story on the surface is about someone who did not cry out for help. Someone who seemed to be doing well until the Arizona game and took a vicious hit. There seemed to be no signs of depression prior to that. I think the fact his family donated his brain to research a lot will come from that in the future.

I think Tyler should be remembered on senior day. I think acknowledging him is the right thing to do, in whichever manner they do it.

 

[CougPatrol]

Tyler's parents are coming in for the game, and he will be recognized. Apart from that, it's audacious for anyone outside of the program to suggest how the football team should best honor him.

They have grieved together, cried together, reached out to his family, and tried to move past it as best they can. It was an awful tragedy, but at this point, what's done is done. The players, coaches, and everyone associated with the football program is in bounds to tell any outsiders to kindly eff off with their suggestions about how to remember someone they didn't even know.

 

[Fab5Coug]

They are JOURNALISTS! They did hang their hat on a guy who landed a big gig here at the local Fox station as a beat reporter.

The person who wrote the article/suggested the missing man formation was Paul Sorenson, a COLUMNIST. That's what columnists do, provide opinions.

And I read the article. I certainly didn't come away with the same take as the OP. I think this thread says more about each of your opinions about Brand X and less to do with the piece itself.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The person who wrote the article/suggested the missing man formation was Paul Sorenson, a COLUMNIST. That's what columnists do, provide opinions.

And I read the article. I certainly didn't come away with the same take as the OP. I think this thread says more about each of your opinions about Brand X and less to do with the piece itself.

OP here - it's 100% about my opinion of BX.

The theme of the article suggests that running the missing man is the right thing to do.

Of course, the unwritten implication is that not running the missing man is wrong, dishonoring TH and his family.

Most if not all of what is happening Saturday is already known, and missing man is not included. Therefore BX is doing what they do best: try to create discontent around CMLs team.

 

[CougPatrol]

Paul Sorenson has a right to his opinion, and so do I. Which is what I gave.

Tyler's tragedy was awful. As a parent of teen boys, it's something I think about more than I, or any parent should. With that said, senior night is for the seniors on the team. This may sound insensitive, but it's not Tyler's night.

 

[etowncoug]

It's best for everyone if after this Saturday the name Tyler Hilinski is never mentioned in Pullman.

 

[fingerdisco]

There's a lot here, and obviously this is all opinion, but...

I agree that the "missing man" is appropriate when somebody goes down. If they'd started the 2018 season with no QB on the field, I would have been 100% on board. Doing it almost 2 years after the fact seems a little forced. Add to that 2 graduations and simple attrition, and somewhere near half the guys who were on the roster with Tyler are gone, replaced by guys who never knew him. That kind of makes this sort of on-field recognition ring a little hollow.

Personally, I've never been fine with the university's response. I know they got the advice that they shouldn't acknowledge, and shouldn't use his name, etc. I think that's crap. Using his name in conjunction with his family raising the flag last year would have been appropriate, and their refusal to do so was forced and awkward. I don't buy for a second that any other students would have killed themselves because Glenn Johnson mentioned his name. Say his name, mourn him without celebrating his actions, and back it up with resources. His family is now proving how that can be done. WSU and HH should be great natural partners, instead WSU botched their handling of this and alienated the family and their organization.

Suicide is, at its core, a selfish act, and always fails to consider the impact on those left behind. But you can acknowledge him without celebrating him. Don't make him a hero, make him a cautionary tale. Ultimately, his story is not a warning for those who are depressed or have mental health struggles - it's a warning for those around people who are struggling. Again, something his family is now doing. I also don't think it's fair to compare Tyler and Buddy Waldron, the situations are only very vaguely comparable.

So, here's my thoughts on Saturday:
Reality is that this will be the last time his name belongs in the stadium. After that, he's just another semi-anonymous former player who appears in old highlights. His recruiting class is playing their last game. He should be too. Invite his parents. Let his teammates bring out his jersey, give his mom a rose and a hug. Say his name, and show his face on the scoreboard. Let the crowd give his family another standing O. And then play the mental health PSA right after the acknowledgement of seniors.

And that's it. No missing man, no further discussion. Go back to 2019 football.

I don't get the "selfish act" comment. It's like saying people with cancer are selfish for dying. These people are oftentimes clinically mentally ill, or in Tyler's case, have past brain trauma. In the case of younger kids that commit suicide, they are functioning with still developing brains and haven't developed the maturity and perspective that it takes to cope with the difficulties in life. I guess I'd just say to think about how miserable a person must be and how hopeless they must feel to end their life before saying that they're being selfish.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

FWIW, I think the university dropped the ball in their initial handling.

Tyler was apart of the team. Therefore, the team should make a call on how they want to honor him.

 

[etowncoug]

I don't get the "selfish act" comment. It's like saying people with cancer are selfish for dying. These people are oftentimes clinically mentally ill, or in Tyler's case, have past brain trauma. In the case of younger kids that commit suicide, they are functioning with still developing brains and haven't developed the maturity and perspective that it takes to cope with the difficulties in life. I guess I'd just say to think about how miserable a person must be and how hopeless they must feel to end their life before saying that they're being selfish.

Suicide is incredibly selfish. There many be mitigating factors which allow us to understand why these people behave selfishly, but it's selfish. Most people have felt suicidal at one point or another, myself included. I'm grateful folks like the Hilinskis weren't beating the drum for suicide as a way to express extreme pain when I was struggling.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

First, I agree with the comments that the missing man formation would have made more sense to start last season than it does now. However, given that this would have been Tyler's last game as a Coug, it's the one time this season that might make sense. 100% agree that it's not "necessary" though.

On the comments about how selfish suicide is.......I used to think that, but I've come to learn that the emotions that lead a person to commit suicide are so complex that to call it selfish is to reveal that you haven't talked to people who've contemplated suicide or dealt with those considering it. The sense of hopelessness and despair that is putting a person in that place has nothing to do with any selfish reasoning and it's a bit myopic to try to boil it down to a selfish act.

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't think suicide is selfish as much as I think it's final. Tragically sad, heartbreaking for parents, friends, and extended family. It closes the book on their life, and personally, I don't think there should be a lot of commemoration afterwards.

 

[fingerdisco]

Suicide is incredibly selfish. There many be mitigating factors which allow us to understand why these people behave selfishly, but it's selfish. Most people have felt suicidal at one point or another, myself included. I'm grateful folks like the Hilinskis weren't beating the drum for suicide as a way to express extreme pain when I was struggling.

Maybe you’re the one being selfish for wanting another person that’s in a mental hell you can’t comprehend (even though you said you felt suicidal feelings, you didn’t do it so obviously you weren’t that bad off) to go on suffering so you don’t have to have feelings of grief?

 

[Coug90]

I don't think suicide is selfish as much as I think it's final. Tragically sad, heartbreaking for parents, friends, and extended family. It closes the book on their life, and personally, I don't think there should be a lot of commemoration afterwards.

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong either way. That said I don’t think someone’s family should feel slighted if their memory isn’t honored the way they might have chosen. Everyone grieves and handles things differently and should be given that right without criticism, including an institution.

I think it’s awesome and IMO the best way to honor Tyler for WSU to support the Hillinski foundation.

 

[ShockandAweWSU]

I used to view suicide as a selfish act. After going through testicular cancer and now lyme disease now all in the last three years I no longer view it at that way. Pain and suffering can lead people to some dark dark places. When life is going great and valleys don't come its easy to think how could they do such a thing. As someone who for a good two years had no desire to keep living I get it. I can totally relate. If it wasnt for My faith in God and wife and two little boys I don't know if Id be alive right now. Best thing we can do is walk this tough day with Tyler's family, his teammates and coaches. There are no easy answers to this subject. Its going to be an emotional day for lots of people. Just pray that God's love and comfort will be with everyone and everyone can celebrate after all is said and done with a big win and bowl eligibility.

 

[CougEd]

OP here - it's 100% about my opinion of BX.

The theme of the article suggests that running the missing man is the right thing to do.

Of course, the unwritten implication is that not running the missing man is wrong, dishonoring TH and his family.

Most if not all of what is happening Saturday is already known, and missing man is not included. Therefore BX is doing what they do best: try to create discontent around CMLs team.

Why is it an either or proposition. One scenario could be a right way to do i, and another scenario could be a "more" right way to do it.

 

[froropmkr72]

The person who wrote the article/suggested the missing man formation was Paul Sorenson, a COLUMNIST. That's what columnists do, provide opinions.

And I read the article. I certainly didn't come away with the same take as the OP. I think this thread says more about each of your opinions about Brand X and less to do with the piece itself.

That's true. I was alluding to the site in general...not the specific OP.

 

[etowncoug]

Maybe you’re the one being selfish for wanting another person that’s in a mental hell you can’t comprehend (even though you said you felt suicidal feelings, you didn’t do it so obviously you weren’t that bad off) to go on suffering so you don’t have to have feelings of grief?

I don't know what Tyler was going through. No one does because he kept it to himself. We know he stole a roommates rifle and hid it. We know he "helped" them look for it. We know he went to conditioning the morning of and didn't mention his plans to anyone. He seemingly planned and carried out this entire event without asking for help. The incident is perhaps most notable for the lack of indicators pointing to someone needing help. We also know there were at least a half dozen other suicides at WSU that spring, several of which were commenting how no one would make a big deal out of it if they died. If Tyler hadn't killed himself, how many of these people would still be with us?

You also don't know what I was experiencing when I was suicidal. I will say I didn't choose to live for my benefit: I knew it would cause my loved ones more pain than I wanted to. Things improved on my end with time.

 

[etowncoug]

I used to view suicide as a selfish act. After going through testicular cancer and now lyme disease now all in the last three years I no longer view it at that way. Pain and suffering can lead people to some dark dark places. When life is going great and valleys don't come its easy to think how could they do such a thing. As someone who for a good two years had no desire to keep living I get it. I can totally relate. If it wasnt for My faith in God and wife and two little boys I don't know if Id be alive right now. Best thing we can do is walk this tough day with Tyler's family, his teammates and coaches. There are no easy answers to this subject. Its going to be an emotional day for lots of people. Just pray that God's love and comfort will be with everyone and everyone can celebrate after all is said and done with a big win and bowl eligibility.

I, for one, am glad you are still with us. Thank you for sharing.

 

[SaveFerris]

Suicide is incredibly selfish. There many be mitigating factors which allow us to understand why these people behave selfishly, but it's selfish. Most people have felt suicidal at one point or another, myself included. I'm grateful folks like the Hilinskis weren't beating the drum for suicide as a way to express extreme pain when I was struggling.

There's a difference between someone who is depressed and considers suicide and someone who is clinically depressed. The hopelessness attached to the latter is so pervasive and deep they literally see know other course of action. Then in football there's the additional layer of CTE as well.

Derek Mason's (Vandy head football coach) daughter Makenzie Mason wrote an article on ESPN about her experience with depression and anxiety.

"People too often only hear about someone's depression after that person takes their own life, then wonder what they could have done to help. That needs to change. I get why someone who has never gone through it would have a hard time understanding what would drive someone to commit suicide -- because it isn't rational. But that's just it: Depression is a disease that infects your brain to the point where you can no longer think rationally."

All the PSAs and help lines, etc. are good for some but the problem for someone who has clinical depression is they reach a point where their mind isn't going to lead them to "go get help", call a help line, or reach out to a parent or friend. Their mind is telling them the only answer is suicide. Also the signs in many cases are so subtle to the people around them that they wouldn't even know something was wrong until it's too late.

Anyway, I'm probably not saying anything you aren't aware of, definitely not an expert on the subject, and don't expect to change anyone's mind on the subject. As has been said it's a complex issue with no easy answers. I did find some level of understanding reading Mason's article though.

https://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/s...se-player-makenzie-mason-struggles-depression

 

[fingerdisco]

I don't know what Tyler was going through. No one does because he kept it to himself. We know he stole a roommates rifle and hid it. We know he "helped" them look for it. We know he went to conditioning the morning of and didn't mention his plans to anyone. He seemingly planned and carried out this entire event without asking for help. The incident is perhaps most notable for the lack of indicators pointing to someone needing help. We also know there were at least a half dozen other suicides at WSU that spring, several of which were commenting how no one would make a big deal out of it if they died. If Tyler hadn't killed himself, how many of these people would still be with us?

You also don't know what I was experiencing when I was suicidal. I will say I didn't choose to live for my benefit: I knew it would cause my loved ones more pain than I wanted to. Things improved on my end with time.

You're right, I don't know what you were experiencing, which is sort of the point. You don't have any idea what the mental state of someone who commits suicide is. And similarly, your myopic viewpoint using the Tyler situation illustrates that--people that commit suicide aren't thinking rationally, asking themselves whether someone else might commit suicide or otherwise effect their life negatively. You really think that someone that puts a gun to their head is having rational, logical thoughts about the effects the act may have on the people around them? It isn't a rational, logical, or selfish act, it's the act of someone at their most desperate state of mental despair, generally brought upon by clinical (as in, a diagnosed disease by the medical profession) illness.

 

[fingerdisco]

There's a difference between someone who is depressed and considers suicide and someone who is clinically depressed. The hopelessness attached to the latter is so pervasive and deep they literally see know other course of action. Then in football there's the additional layer of CTE as well.

Derek Mason's (Vandy head football coach) daughter Makenzie Mason wrote an article on ESPN about her experience with depression and anxiety.

"People too often only hear about someone's depression after that person takes their own life, then wonder what they could have done to help. That needs to change. I get why someone who has never gone through it would have a hard time understanding what would drive someone to commit suicide -- because it isn't rational. But that's just it: Depression is a disease that infects your brain to the point where you can no longer think rationally."

All the PSAs and help lines, etc. are good for some but the problem for someone who has clinical depression is they reach a point where their mind isn't going to lead them to "go get help", call a help line. Their mind is telling them the only answer is suicide. Also the signs in many cases are so subtle to the people around them that they wouldn't even know something was wrong until it's too late.

Anyway, I'm probably not saying anything you aren't aware of, definitely not an expert on the subject, and don't expect to change anyone's mind on the subject. As has been said it's a complex issue with no easy answers. I did find some level of understanding reading Mason's article though.

https://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/s...se-player-makenzie-mason-struggles-depression

I responded prior to having read this...this says much better the point I was trying to get across.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Going to go ahead and throw gas on the bonfire...



According to another tweeter, they've done this "for most of the games this season."

I feel like thats a bit much, but please discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[fingerdisco]

Going to go ahead and throw gas on the bonfire...

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According to another tweeter, they've done this "for most of the games this season."

I feel like thats a bit much, but please discuss amongst yourselves.

If it helps in understanding mental illness, fine. I'm a bit bothered by the reverence shown to athletes when thousands of people are dying by suicide and going unnoticed by the general population, however.

 

[metprof]

Lost a close friend to suicide many years ago. He was my pee wee/little league/pony league coach and after he retired from farming he'd come out and help me during busy times by fetching seed wheat or water when spraying, moving tractors, combines etc. He was my mentor.

I never felt he was selfish. Instead I agonized about what was so terrible that drove him to it and that he must have suffered horribly. He left a wonderful wife and great kids. Two are Coug grads, one's a season ticket holder.

The military has a near-epidemic of suicides of late. There is a great saying created to help bring awareness to the problem. You needn't be military or a veteran for this to apply. It's universal.

"In your darkest hour when the demons come,
call on me brother,
and we'll fight them together"​

 

[fingerdisco]

Lost a close friend to suicide many years ago. He was my pee wee/little league/pony league coach and after he retired from farming he'd come out and help me during busy times by fetching seed wheat or water when spraying, moving tractors, combines etc. He was my mentor.

I never felt he was selfish. Instead I agonized about what was so terrible that drove him to it and that he must have suffered horribly. He left a wonderful wife and great kids. Two are Coug grads, one's a season ticket holder.

The military has a near-epidemic of suicides of late. There is a great saying created to help bring awareness to the problem. You needn't be military or a veteran for this to apply. It's universal.

"In your darkest hour when the demons come,
call on me brother,
and we'll fight them together"​

Thanks for sharing that. Sad story. Love the sentiment of that saying, it's just really sad and unfortunate that those that commit suicide feel they have no one to call out to, in spite of being surrounded by loving friends and family in many cases.

 

[95coug]

A couple things I’ll add -

First, I agree that another perspective says that honoring Tyler this weekend may take away from the other seniors. I suspect that most of them, if polled, would say to do it anyway. And really, their opinions should be a factor.

Second, I’m on board with the 3 fingers thing. Not necessarily as a remembrance of Tyler, but as a recognition of the issue and a symbol of HH.