ICE, Greenland, etc. - this is getting so bad

[Flatlandcoug]

Depends on what one gets in exchange, I suppose.

Would that be such a bad thing if all nuclear weapons were dismantled and threats of mutual destruction taken off the table? There's probably any number of trades that could be made.

Would have to hear the term sheet. Just because for the Cold War period we were indoctrinated to hate Chinese and Russians doesn't mean things haven't changed. We hated the crap out of the British too in 1776. We hated the crap out of the Japanese in 1945.

Things change.

Things change but the reality is that the entire free world (outside of Trump and MAGA) views Russia and China as threats to freedom. Russia is currently trying to subjugate a sovereign state and China is illegally taking over the South China Sea and encroaching on the territorial waters of other countries.

The only thing that is changing is that we are acting like them now. That is not a good thing.

 

[Observer11]

Things change but the reality is that the entire free world (outside of Trump and MAGA) views Russia and China as threats to freedom. Russia is currently trying to subjugate a sovereign state and China is illegally taking over the South China Sea and encroaching on the territorial waters of other countries.

The only thing that is changing is that we are acting like them now. That is not a good thing.

When you say the 'entire world' do you mean Western Europe?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Depends on what one gets in exchange, I suppose.

Would that be such a bad thing if all nuclear weapons were dismantled and threats of mutual destruction taken off the table? There's probably any number of trades that could be made.

Would have to hear the term sheet. Just because for the Cold War period we were indoctrinated to hate Chinese and Russians doesn't mean things haven't changed. We hated the crap out of the British too in 1776. We hated the crap out of the Japanese in 1945.

Things change.

Wait what? Are you saying that you would approve of China, Russia and the US dividing up the world into 3 pieces?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

When you say the 'entire world' do you mean Western Europe?

He said "entire FREE world".

 

[Observer11]

Wait what? Are you saying that you would approve of China, Russia and the US dividing up the world into 3 pieces?

Didn't say that- you did. Everything is negotiable. Doesn't mean every idea should be dismissed either just because it involves historical 'enemies'.

Who, by the way, were once allies.

 

[Observer11]

He said "entire FREE world".

Might want to do a little digging into just how 'free' the Euros actually are when it comes to, you know, posting things on the internet or having thoughts or beliefs.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Didn't say that- you did. Everything is negotiable. Doesn't mean every idea should be dismissed either just because it involves historical 'enemies'.

Who, by the way, were once allies.

Might want to do a little digging into just how 'free' the Euros actually are when it comes to, you know, posting things on the internet or having thoughts or beliefs.

Well if you didn't mean that (splitting the world into 3 pieces) WTH was your point? Everything is negotiable? Exactly what does that mean? The sanctity of the world's nations is negotiable? Please make an intelligent comment once in a while. I used to think you were better than our resident troll but I'm starting to wonder.

And gee, how free is America becoming, as our free press gets banned from press conferences, and any network (including Fox) that is critical of your dear leader gets attacked, threatened with lawsuits, etc.? And per another post, like that asthmatic Turkish student who wrote a critical op-ed a year ago gets kidnapped by six guys in masks and flown 1500 miles away? Is that your vision of America?

 

[Observer11]

Well if you didn't mean that (splitting the world into 3 pieces) WTH was your point? Everything is negotiable? Exactly what does that mean? The sanctity of the world's nations is negotiable? Please make an intelligent comment once in a while. I used to think you were better than our resident troll but I'm starting to wonder.

And gee, how free is America becoming, as our free press gets banned from press conferences, and any network (including Fox) that is critical of your dear leader gets attacked, threatened with lawsuits, etc.? And per another post, like that asthmatic Turkish student who wrote a critical op-ed a year ago gets kidnapped by six guys in masks and flown 1500 miles away? Is that your vision of America?

What's your definition of freedom?

Then we'll go from there.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

What's your definition of freedom?

Then we'll go from there.

I'm not playing the Gibby game. Explain your post(s) or go away. Or f-it - I'll just add you to my fairly short list of posters I refuse to engage with. At least Stretch and Gibby speak intelligently. I even agree with them (and say so) on occasion.

That said, I guess I would say that my definition of freedom is below. Look familiar?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[dgibbons]

Things change but the reality is that the entire free world (outside of Trump and MAGA) views Russia and China as threats to freedom. Russia is currently trying to subjugate a sovereign state and China is illegally taking over the South China Sea and encroaching on the territorial waters of other countries.

The only thing that is changing is that we are acting like them now. That is not a good thing.

Having second thoughts on China and the Panama Canal? Or was that just one of those silly MAGA things?

 

[dgibbons]

Didn't say that- you did. Everything is negotiable. Doesn't mean every idea should be dismissed either just because it involves historical 'enemies'.

Who, by the way, were once allies.

That was like 29,000 24 hour news cycles ago.

 

[Coug90]

Actially if I can follow Magat logic ....prove that he isnt.

Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question…all he says, then he can’t answer a simple F’n question.

 

[dgibbons]

Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question…all he says, then he can’t answer a simple F’n question.

So what is the answer to whatever your question is?

 

[dgibbons]

I'm not playing the Gibby game. Explain your post(s) or go away. Or f-it - I'll just add you to my fairly short list of posters I refuse to engage with. At least Stretch and Gibby speak intelligently. I even agree with them (and say so) on occasion.

That said, I guess I would say that my definition of freedom is below. Look familiar?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Do you think that somehow, some way, Trump and the administration wouldn’t get sued for violating the First Amendment?

 

[CougEd]

Didn't say that- you did. Everything is negotiable. Doesn't mean every idea should be dismissed either just because it involves historical 'enemies'.

Who, by the way, were once allies.

By necessity... I get you are ok with "your friends" having nukes pointed at us...and many died to keep us out of war with them... and you want a "balanced" budget tell me how much we spent in the nuclear arms race...

 

[CougEd]

Do you think that somehow, some way, Trump and the administration wouldn’t get sued for violating the First Amendment?

And?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Do you think that somehow, some way, Trump and the administration wouldn’t get sued for violating the First Amendment?

I didn't mention Trump in my post. Nor anything about getting sued. Why are you? Do you think somehow, some way, it is OK to threaten federal judges with impeachment and call them names if they rule against you in some case? OK to try to put our elected officials in jail because they investigated your blatant insurrection attempt?

Enough of this. We had a nice thread going. But here we go again. You (judges, press, anyone) disagree, which is our Constitutional right, with the Orange One on anything and you get threatened, banned, disparaged and called names, etc. by your dear leader. Since the 14th Amendment, Section 3 doesn't apply to him, why should the 1st apply? Or the 22nd for that matter.

Meanwhile, our allies are getting bullied, the economy is already teetering, the stock market is tanking, and the business world can't make any decision because they don't know what shit Trump is going to pull out of his ass tomorrow. Farmers are at risk of losing their international customers, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of legal immigrant's fear that they will be deported. I see it my own Hispanic-laden community. Good, decent folk just trying to make better lives for themselves and their often American citizen children. If that is your preferred America, fine. It ain't mine.

But then you are probably cheering for those farmers and businesses to go bankrupt so that you can get more business for yourself.

 

[dgibbons]

And?

So where is the dire threat to the First Amendment? Sorry I didn’t connect those dots that were right next to each other for you.

 

[dgibbons]

I didn't mention Trump in my post. Nor anything about getting sued. Why are you? Do you think somehow, some way, it is OK to threaten federal judges with impeachment and call them names if they rule against you in some case? OK to try to put our elected officials in jail because they investigated your blatant insurrection attempt?

Enough of this. We had a nice thread going. But here we go again. You (judges, press, anyone) disagree, which is our Constitutional right, with the Orange One on anything and you get threatened, banned, disparaged and called names, etc. by your dear leader. Since the 14th Amendment, Section 3 doesn't apply to him, why should the 1st apply? Or the 22nd for that matter.

Meanwhile, our allies are getting bullied, the economy is already teetering, the stock market is tanking, and the business world can't make any decision because they don't know what shit Trump is going to pull out of his ass tomorrow. Farmers are at risk of losing their international customers, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of legal immigrant's fear that they will be deported. I see it my own Hispanic-laden community. Good, decent folk just trying to make better lives for themselves and their often American citizen children. If that is your preferred America, fine. It ain't mine.

But then you are probably cheering for those farmers and businesses to go bankrupt so that you can get more business for yourself.

FDR threatened to pack the Supreme Court when they kept overturning his New Deal legislation.

As far as your or anyone else’s First Amendment rights, the point is and remains, you and anyone else can have your day in court.

And edit to add- who is getting put in jail for investigating insurrection? Got a name?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

When you say the 'entire world' do you mean Western Europe?

You didn't include the word "free". Unfortunately, most of the world outside of Europe is ran by despots of one type or another. Is Poland considered "Western Europe"? What about Finland? It's safe to say that the Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, New Zealand, Thailand and other countries in SE Asia are not fans of China and only deal with them because they have to.

I know that you are balls deep in on the MAGA world view, but normal people see what you are spouting and can't believe the bullsh!t that you are chowing down on.

 

[Observer11]

I'm not playing the Gibby game. Explain your post(s) or go away. Or f-it - I'll just add you to my fairly short list of posters I refuse to engage with. At least Stretch and Gibby speak intelligently. I even agree with them (and say so) on occasion.

That said, I guess I would say that my definition of freedom is below. Look familiar?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Are you familiar with prohibitions to all those in the UK and some EU countries? Including arrests of those who voice their opinions and beliefs? Or pray?

 

[Observer11]

You didn't include the word "free". Unfortunately, most of the world outside of Europe is ran by despots of one type or another. Is Poland considered "Western Europe"? What about Finland? It's safe to say that the Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, New Zealand, Thailand and other countries in SE Asia are not fans of China and only deal with them because they have to.

I know that you are balls deep in on the MAGA world view, but normal people see what you are spouting and can't believe the bullsh!t that you are chowing down on.

See also my question to Loyal - how do you define free?

 

[Observer11]

By necessity... I get you are ok with "your friends" having nukes pointed at us...and many died to keep us out of war with them... and you want a "balanced" budget tell me how much we spent in the nuclear arms race...

Many died in Korea, Vietnam and WW II. Only in Korea did the US go head to head with either China or Russia. In fact, to my knowledge the US has never been involved in a war with Russia (or even the USSR). We've had more wars against England and Canada than Russia.

In fact, I'm not OK with nukes pointed at us. Which is entirely the point as to why it is a good idea to sit down with those who have nuclear weapons and de-escalate that threat.

 

[dgibbons]

I think the bottom line here is that some posters dislike the United States acting like a superpower.

 

[Stretch 74]

Actially if I can follow Magat logic ....prove that he isnt.

Come on, Ed. You know it doesn't work that way. In our country, a person is innocent until proven guilty, so it is up to the guy making wild accusations that Trump is a Russian asset to prove his claim, not for someone else to prove that his claim is incorrect.

BTW, since Trump just came out and said that he is upset with Putin, does that mean that he is now Zelensky puppet?

 

[Observer11]

I think the bottom line here is that some posters dislike the United States acting like a superpower.

There's an argument to be made that because it IS a superpower, the US should conduct its affairs on a higher level than those who are not.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

FDR threatened to pack the Supreme Court when they kept overturning his New Deal legislation.

As far as your or anyone else’s First Amendment rights, the point is and remains, you and anyone else can have your day in court.

And edit to add- who is getting put in jail for investigating insurrection? Got a name?

See also my question to Loyal - how do you define free?

Gibby - I said "try". And names? Cheney, Kinzinger, pretty much the whole Jan 6 Subcommittee.

Observer - I defined it. Not going to repeat myself.

 

[dgibbons]

Gibby - I said "try". And names? Cheney, Kinzinger, pretty much the whole Jan 6 Subcommittee.

Observer - I defined it. Not going to repeat myself.

Are they cell mates? Who’s rooming with Hillary?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Come on, Ed. You know it doesn't work that way. In our country, a person is innocent until proven guilty, so it is up to the guy making wild accusations that Trump is a Russian asset to prove his claim, not for someone else to prove that his claim is incorrect.

BTW, since Trump just came out and said that he is upset with Putin, does that mean that he is now Zelensky puppet?

First, I've never said that Trump is a Putin puppet. I've said that he is infatuated with the power that Putin projects and craves it himself. The reason that he's upset with Putin is because his little squirrel brain covets the Nobel Peace Prize and Putin is denying him that opportunity. Trump doesn't care about Ukraine....everything is transaction for the Donald and nothing more.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Are they cell mates? Who’s rooming with Hillary?

Give it a rest. I said "try". And if you are trying to say Trump didn't say they should be thrown in jail, then you are an idiot.

"In December, after his election victory, Trump had threatened to imprison the members of the investigative team"

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5199270-trump-jan-6-committee-pardons/

You probably approve of the mass pardons for the Jan 6 rioters as well. After all, it was a "day of love". WTF is wrong with you?

"Trump and his congressional allies have sought to whitewash the violent history of the event, characterizing Jan. 6 as a “day of love,” portraying the rioters as victims "

WTF is wrong with all of you Trumpers? He is the POTUS, and every day he disgraces the office with his lies and threats and bullying.

 

[dgibbons]

There's an argument to be made that because it IS a superpower, the US should conduct its affairs on a higher level than those who are not.

Suez Crisis, 1956. France, the UK and Israel conspire to invade Egypt and seize the Suez Canal. Telling our allies politely not to do it didn’t work. So, we condemned the invasion along with the USSR, threatened sanctions and supported UN resolutions condemning the invasion and forming a peacekeeping force to supervise the withdrawal of troops.

The historic impact was to be end British and French colonialism. The UK, France and Israel did not like it. Ike was pissed that the UK did that crap during an election year.

 

[dgibbons]

Give it a rest. I said "try". And if you are trying to say Trump didn't say they should be thrown in jail, then you are an idiot.

"In December, after his election victory, Trump had threatened to imprison the members of the investigative team"

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5199270-trump-jan-6-committee-pardons/

You probably approve of the mass pardons for the Jan 6 rioters as well. After all, it was a "day of love". WTF is wrong with you?

"Trump and his congressional allies have sought to whitewash the violent history of the event, characterizing Jan. 6 as a “day of love,” portraying the rioters as victims "

WTF is wrong with all of you Trumpers? He is the POTUS, and every day he disgraces the office with his lies and threats and bullying.

OK. Try means efforts are being made to jail them? I would seriously like to know. Real efforts.

I get that you don’t like the rhetoric. Hillary is still roaming the airwaves despite the threats to lock her up nine years ago.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Suez Crisis, 1956. France, the UK and Israel conspire to invade Egypt and seize the Suez Canal. Telling our allies politely not to do it didn’t work. So, we condemned the invasion along with the USSR, threatened sanctions and supported UN resolutions condemning the invasion and forming a peacekeeping force to supervise the withdrawal of troops.

The historic impact was to be end British and French colonialism. The UK, France and Israel did not like it. Ike was pissed that the UK did that crap during an election year.

Which has to do with what in 2025?

OK. Try means efforts are being made to jail them? I would seriously like to know. Real efforts.

I get that you don’t like the rhetoric. Hillary is still roaming the airwaves despite the threats to lock her up nine years ago.

Oh F you. I'm done here.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Suez Crisis, 1956. France, the UK and Israel conspire to invade Egypt and seize the Suez Canal. Telling our allies politely not to do it didn’t work. So, we condemned the invasion along with the USSR, threatened sanctions and supported UN resolutions condemning the invasion and forming a peacekeeping force to supervise the withdrawal of troops.

The historic impact was to be end British and French colonialism. The UK, France and Israel did not like it. Ike was pissed that the UK did that crap during an election year.

UK colonialism was already in steep decline long before 1956. World War II had gutted the British economy and they were already dropping colonies within a couple years of the end of the war. French colonies in SE Asia were shedding right after WWII as well. The Suez debacle accelerated the decline of both, but they were both already doomed before that. Part of the reason that they declined was because the US showed that we didn't need colonies to be a super power and we were willing to let countries self rule.

 

[dgibbons]

Which has to do with what in 2025?

Oh F you. I'm done here.

Are you done or just want to hurl insults?

The US has to act like a superpower, even if that rubs allies the wrong way. Allies that were side by side with the US invading Normandy twelve years before.

Many of our NATO allies are enjoying the benefits of US security guarantees, not living up to their end of the defense spending bargain, and very happy to import Russian gas. Acting in their own best interest is not surprising. But the US should too.

 

[dgibbons]

UK colonialism was already in steep decline long before 1956. World War II had gutted the British economy and they were already dropping colonies within a couple years of the end of the war. French colonies in SE Asia were shedding right after WWII as well. The Suez debacle accelerated the decline of both, but they were both already doomed before that. Part of the reason that they declined was because the US showed that we didn't need colonies to be a super power and we were willing to let countries self rule.

Suez was the end. As stated.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Are you done or just want to hurl insults?

The US has to act like a superpower, even if that runs allies the wrong way. Allies that were side by side with the US invading Normandy twelve years before.

Many of our NATO allies are enjoying the benefits of US security guarantees, not living up to their end of the defense spending bargain, and very happy to import Russian gas. Acting in their own best interest is not surprising. But the US should too.

Sorry about the F-you. Sort of. But you are just like my ex-wife. You just keep picking and picking until I get pissed off. Like a lot of women (count that as another insult if you want). And I believe that I stated that I see NATO countries ramping up their defense efforts fearing that they can no longer count on the US. And am happy about it. So I actually agree with you on this.

Europe and it's dependence on Russian gas is a conundrum. But didn't Germany halt the Nord 2 project which I believe still has not pumped an ounce of gas? And who are we to judge? China is supposedly an adversary, but America keeps buying their shit and thus supporting their regime. Not me. I don't buy shit except food and beer and the occasional tank of gas. None of which come from China. I'm telling you - the US should embargo anything from China. It would bring them to their economic knees and if they respond with an embargo they will starve to death. Repeating myself now.

Anyway, below is a pretty darn good article on Trumps threats against everyone from the judiciary on down. That is not Presidential by any sane person's definition. At least he appears to have pissed off Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett. I'm finally starting to like her. Look for lots more 5-4 decisions against the administration coming down the pike. Now I'm through.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/30/politics/trump-punish-opponents/index.html

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Suez was the end. As stated.

I was thinking about this a bit more. You are saying that the British and French Empires collapsed because of their actions in trying to take over the Suez Canal. One could argue that those countries acted in a manner that was not in line with the expectations of their allies and it led to their collapse.

One could also argue that choosing to alienate our allies by threatening to take over Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal is the United States doing the same exact thing that the UK and French did in Egypt. Are you accidentally making an argument that Trump is going to cause the end of our time as the leading superpower in the world?

 

[Observer11]

Are you done or just want to hurl insults?

The US has to act like a superpower, even if that rubs allies the wrong way. Allies that were side by side with the US invading Normandy twelve years before.

Many of our NATO allies are enjoying the benefits of US security guarantees, not living up to their end of the defense spending bargain, and very happy to import Russian gas. Acting in their own best interest is not surprising. But the US should too.

Europe has also chosen to dine at the teet of Russian oil and gas while putting up roadblocks to buying US liquid natural gas.

Though, the roadblocks are also internal in that the last administration put the kibosh on a couple liquid natural gas production facilities - one in Louisiana for sure.

I guess that's what happens when a 16 year old named Greta sets the global narrative.

"How dare you?"

 

[dgibbons]

I was thinking about this a bit more. You are saying that the British and French Empires collapsed because of their actions in trying to take over the Suez Canal. One could argue that those countries acted in a manner that was not in line with the expectations of their allies and it led to their collapse.

One could also argue that choosing to alienate our allies by threatening to take over Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal is the United States doing the same exact thing that the UK and French did in Egypt. Are you accidentally making an argument that Trump is going to cause the end of our time as the leading superpower in the world?

Let me know when the US cooks up a plan with one or more other countries to justify an invasion, launches the bombers, and when the paratroopers land.