If UNLV is out, what Mtn West team

[COUGinNCW]

would make the most sense to pickup (tallest midget). Assume AF would be out as well.

Personally, I’d go with UNM. PAC12 is going to be a really good basketball conference and football needs someone to kick around. ABQ has a million people in their MSA as well.

And I’d take them over Texas State. No brand and sitting solo in Texas like a pimple.

 

[Coug1990]

If the conference members wanted UNM, they would have been offered already. I would think that Texas State has way more long-term potential than UNM. Plus, Texas is a recruiting hotbed for the conference members.

 

[PeteTheChop]

If the conference members wanted UNM, they would have been offered already. I would think that Texas State has way more long-term potential than UNM. Plus, Texas is a recruiting hotbed for the conference members.

Cougs pulled Cam Ward and John Mateer despite being in a league with no schools in Texas.

The Pac-12's brand would benefit TX ST far more than TX ST's presence would help WSU and OSU (and, less importantly, the Pac-12 newbies) in recruiting the Lone Star State. JMO.

 

[Coug1990]

Cougs pulled Cam Ward and John Mateer despite being in a league with no schools in Texas.

The Pac-12's brand would benefit TX ST far more than TX ST's presence would help WSU and OSU (and, less importantly, the Pac-12 newbies) in recruiting the Lone Star State. JMO.

There is no team that realistically the P12 could add that would benefit the conference. It really comes down to what school the conference members want to deal with going forward. Plus, like I said, this is all going to look a lot different in 5-10 years.

 

[COUGinNCW]

If the conference members wanted UNM, they would have been offered already. I would think that Texas State has way more long-term potential than UNM. Plus, Texas is a recruiting hotbed for the conference members.

if they wanted Texas State, they’d be offered by now as well. Probably down to a game of chicken. If Texas State holds out for a full share, I’d offer UNM.

 

[Coug1990]

if they wanted Texas State, they’d be offered by now as well. Probably down to a game of chicken. If Texas State holds out for a full share, I’d offer UNM.

I hope you understand the huge difference between UNM and TSU. The members of the new P12 know UNM well and have rejected them from the beginning. For whatever their reasons, they do not want them.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I hope you understand the huge difference between UNM and TSU. The members of the new P12 know UNM well and have rejected them from the beginning. For whatever their reasons, they do not want them.

UNM is a lower tier MWC with almost no upside. I'm not excited about Texas State....but they have a much higher ceiling than UNM. Everyone knows the reason that the departing MWC teams want to get away from the dregs of that conference. Keeping those teams around bring almost no monetary value but a huge monetary drag. One could argue that the buyouts to escape the MWC make the new Pac-12 deal look a little sketchy....but that just goes to show how badly they wanted to get away.

No offense to UNLV....but they are going to look like chumps for staying behind. The vast majority of the MWC games are going to be on CBSSN, TruTv or Max...meaning that nobody will see them.

 

[Coug1990]

UNM is a lower tier MWC with almost no upside. I'm not excited about Texas State....but they have a much higher ceiling than UNM. Everyone knows the reason that the departing MWC teams want to get away from the dregs of that conference. Keeping those teams around bring almost no monetary value but a huge monetary drag. One could argue that the buyouts to escape the MWC make the new Pac-12 deal look a little sketchy....but that just goes to show how badly they wanted to get away.

No offense to UNLV....but they are going to look like chumps for staying behind. The vast majority of the MWC games are going to be on CBSSN, TruTv or Max...meaning that nobody will see them.

Honestly, the city of Las Vegas is more a reason to want UNLV than the actual school. Las Vegas is a destination vacation city. I couldn't care less about the school. I think what the administration at UNLV thinks is that they will dominate what is left of the carcass that is the MWC and use that to join a P4 conference in a few years.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The only school in Texas worth adding is UTEP. Cause it’s the closest to the Western US which the Pac SHOULD BE!!! And the Sun Bowl has a history with the league.

As soon as the Pac Whatever realizes they have to build their markets they can move forward. Chasing fools gold tv markets around the Midwest or even the South is fcking dumb. If the Pac Whatever wants more tv $$$$…… put a great product on EVERY field and win viewers in the Western US. Football is a tv show. Make great tv shows. Here’s a hint, start the league with an 80 man roster limit and manufacture competitiveness across all your teams. Great games get eyeballs on tv sets.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I hope you understand the huge difference between UNM and TSU. The members of the new P12 know UNM well and have rejected them from the beginning. For whatever their reasons, they do not want them.

Its 2am at a bar in Yakima. LC isnt picky. Same is true for the Pac Whatever now. If they are gonna take a trucking school like BSU, time to let in UNM.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Honestly, the city of Las Vegas is more a reason to want UNLV than the actual school. Las Vegas is a destination vacation city. I couldn't care less about the school. I think what the administration at UNLV thinks is that they will dominate what is left of the carcass that is the MWC and use that to join a P4 conference in a few years.

I'm pissed that we didn't get UNLV. That said, I wouldn't want to overpay for the Rebels. They may dominate the MWC carcass but it's not going to yield them anything. Their strength of schedule is going to be below 100 every year.

 

[Coug1990]

I'm pissed that we didn't get UNLV. That said, I wouldn't want to overpay for the Rebels. They may dominate the MWC carcass but it's not going to yield them anything. Their strength of schedule is going to be below 100 every year.

I agree. They are not going to get anything. More likely, instead of teams getting invites to a P4 conference, many of the schools now in a P4 conference get left behind and the "haves' consolidate their power.

 

[mikalalas]

if they wanted Texas State, they’d be offered by now as well. Probably down to a game of chicken. If Texas State holds out for a full share, I’d offer UNM.

They were offered by Teresa Gould, PAC 12, its just that Teresa, PAC 12 LOWBALL OFFERED TEXAS ST.

And Texas St's President made a comment, statement, that he only wanted a full bowl of soup, not a half or 1/3 bowl of soup. He said that immediately after Texas St received the Lowball offer from the PAC 12. It was interpreted to supposedly mean that Texas St would only accept a full bowl of soup share in, from the PAC 12.

So the PAC 12 has already offered, wants Texas St, as a possibility if the PAC 12 doesn't find, get better like UNLV, AF, Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, UNT, Rice, etc.

 

[dgibbons]

if they wanted Texas State, they’d be offered by now as well. Probably down to a game of chicken. If Texas State holds out for a full share, I’d offer UNM.

Texas State is on deck. The rumormongers/reporters have said Texas State was offered a partial share months ago.

 

[95coug]

The members of the new P12 know UNM well and have rejected them from the beginning. For whatever their reasons, they do not want them.

UNM is a lower tier MWC with almost no upside. I'm not excited about Texas State....but they have a much higher ceiling than UNM.

Honestly, the city of Las Vegas is more a reason to want UNLV than the actual school. Las Vegas is a destination vacation city.

The only school in Texas worth adding is UTEP. Cause it’s the closest to the Western US which the Pac SHOULD BE!!! And the Sun Bowl has a history with the league.

As soon as the Pac Whatever realizes they have to build their markets they can move forward. Chasing fools gold tv markets around the Midwest or even the South is fcking dumb.

Here’s the problem I see: the Pac-whatever leadership is trying to play things the way they always have. They’re ignoring UNM because Albuquerque is a small market and their football sucks. They’ve passed on UNLV because they have almost no athletic history. They’re trying to chase teams on the geographic fringes because they have some metro market connection. All of that squares with how things have worked in the past. But that’s not how the future Pac can work. All of the programs with significant athletic history and major metro markets are already gone. We need a new model.

Instead of trying to enter new markets and pull 3rd or 6th tier teams from metro markets, we should be consolidating regional markets. We can’t pull the teams that have big city eyes on them. But we can try to pull all the teams around them - giving us a less fervently devoted viewer base, but over large enough an area that it’s still significant.

It probably means taking some teams that aren’t as traditionally attractive. UNLV is a toehold in the largest remaining metro market (even if it’s indifferent). Air Force pairs with CSU to consolidate Colorado/denver. The dregs of the MWC need to be looked at in the context of regional monopoly to see if they are helpful. Some probably aren’t (looking at you, SJSU)…but the historical view doesn’t work anymore

 

[dgibbons]

Here’s the problem I see: the Pac-whatever leadership is trying to play things the way they always have. They’re ignoring UNM because Albuquerque is a small market and their football sucks. They’ve passed on UNLV because they have almost no athletic history. They’re trying to chase teams on the geographic fringes because they have some metro market connection. All of that squares with how things have worked in the past. But that’s not how the future Pac can work. All of the programs with significant athletic history and major metro markets are already gone. We need a new model.

Instead of trying to enter new markets and pull 3rd or 6th tier teams from metro markets, we should be consolidating regional markets. We can’t pull the teams that have big city eyes on them. But we can try to pull all the teams around them - giving us a less fervently devoted viewer base, but over large enough an area that it’s still significant.

It probably means taking some teams that aren’t as traditionally attractive. UNLV is a toehold in the largest remaining metro market (even if it’s indifferent). Air Force pairs with CSU to consolidate Colorado/denver. The dregs of the MWC need to be looked at in the context of regional monopoly to see if they are helpful. Some probably aren’t (looking at you, SJSU)…but the historical view doesn’t work anymore

They didn't pass on UNLV. UNLV was able to cut a better deal (whether it stays a better deal, we'll find out).

CSU, FSU, USU, SDSU and BSU said good bye for good reason. The have nots in the MWC, like UNM, suck.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Here’s the problem I see: the Pac-whatever leadership is trying to play things the way they always have. They’re ignoring UNM because Albuquerque is a small market and their football sucks. They’ve passed on UNLV because they have almost no athletic history. They’re trying to chase teams on the geographic fringes because they have some metro market connection. All of that squares with how things have worked in the past. But that’s not how the future Pac can work. All of the programs with significant athletic history and major metro markets are already gone. We need a new model.

Instead of trying to enter new markets and pull 3rd or 6th tier teams from metro markets, we should be consolidating regional markets. We can’t pull the teams that have big city eyes on them. But we can try to pull all the teams around them - giving us a less fervently devoted viewer base, but over large enough an area that it’s still significant.

It probably means taking some teams that aren’t as traditionally attractive. UNLV is a toehold in the largest remaining metro market (even if it’s indifferent). Air Force pairs with CSU to consolidate Colorado/denver. The dregs of the MWC need to be looked at in the context of regional monopoly to see if they are helpful. Some probably aren’t (looking at you, SJSU)…but the historical view doesn’t work anymore

This is one reason why Ive been banging the drum to take ALL tier 1 research schools, regardless of BCS or FCS, in the Western US. There are no metro markets left. So take the entire region. You have games without enormous travel. You have games to schedule without prob. You can have enormous round robin tournaments in LV. And if you have roster limits you can manufacture the competitiveness you need to have compelling games on every field, every week.

Instead, we have whatever the fck it is theyre trying to do now.

 

[PeteTheChop]

The have nots in the MWC, like UNM, suck.

Honestly, who cares if UNM isn't worth a crap in football?

Is not the goal for WSU or OSU -- the legacy schools driving the Pac-12's expansion bus — to contend for football championships right there with BSU on a regular basis? That's what matters, right?

Why bring in a program like TX ST that could conceivably climb its way up the conference's football hierarchy and become a thorn in the side of the Cougs and Beavs ... and, not to mention, cut into Texas recruiting since why go to the West Coast to play in the Pac when now there's an in-state option and your family can make it to every home game?

Let the Lobos be their doormat selves in football but draw 13k a game in one of very best environments out west for college hoops in a Top 60-ish media market

 

[dgibbons]

Honestly, who cares if UNM isn't worth a crap in football?

Is not the goal for WSU or OSU -- the legacy schools driving the Pac-12's expansion bus — to contend for football championships right there with BSU on a regular basis? That's what matters, right?

Why bring in a program like TX ST that could conceivably climb its way up the conference's football hierarchy and become a thorn in the side of the Cougs and Beavs ... and, not to mention, cut into Texas recruiting since why go to the West Coast to play in the Pac when now there's an in-state option and your family can make it to every home game?

Let the Lobos be their doormat selves in football but draw 13k a game in one of very best environments out west for college hoops in a Top 60-ish media market

The potential TV/media partners drive this, and they're not interested in UNM.

 

[PeteTheChop]

The potential TV/media partners drive this, and they're not interested in UNM.

At roughly $10M per year spread among 3 or 4 media partners, I doubt they care all that much about who gets invited.

As @425cougfan pointed out, TX ST won't be bringing many eyeballs outside greater San Marcos.

This seems more like olde-time MWC politics at work.

UNM, for all its shortcomings, is still a flagship university from a conference that's traditionally one notch below the Pac

 

[PeteTheChop]

CSU, FSU, USU, SDSU and BSU said good bye for good reason. The have nots in the MWC, like UNM, suck.

UNM's last 10 seasons in MWC games: 21-57

TX ST's last 10 seasons in Sun Belt games: 22-58

 

[dgibbons]

UNM's last 10 seasons in MWC games: 21-57

TX ST's last 10 seasons in Sun Belt games: 22-58

Regurgitating the crap already discussed on this board is pointless. Go troll elsewhere. If winning mattered, WSU would be in the Big XII, and Cal, Stanford, Arizona and ASU would have been relegated.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

UNM's last 10 seasons in MWC games: 21-57

TX ST's last 10 seasons in Sun Belt games: 22-58

Regurgitating the crap already discussed on this board is pointless. Go troll elsewhere. If winning mattered, WSU would be in the Big XII, and Cal, Stanford, Arizona and ASU would have been relegated.

That's pretty funny. You regurgitate crap all the time Gibby. Want me to bring the receipts?

And Pete makes a good point/comparison here. "We" scoff at the remaining MW teams but are fired up to add a school 2,000 miles away that is no better than the MW bottom feeders in FB, and that I believe sucks in BB.

And ASU would have been relegated? Is that the same ASU team that won the Big-12 in FB in 2024? Yeah, let's go with that. Cougs would have been what - 4th? in the MW if our FB games with them were league games. And we were 6th in the WCC in Basketball.

 

[95coug]

This is one reason why Ive been banging the drum to take ALL tier 1 research schools, regardless of BCS or FCS, in the Western US. There are no metro markets left. So take the entire region. You have games without enormous travel. You have games to schedule without prob. You can have enormous round robin tournaments in LV. And if you have roster limits you can manufacture the competitiveness you need to have compelling games on every field, every week.

Instead, we have whatever the fck it is theyre trying to do now.

I think your R1 idea was the seed of my regional monopoly thought. Not sure I’d dig down into FCS, largely because I think you’ve still got to put a product on the field. Even with a monopoly, putting a matchup like Nevada-Montana on the air is going to be a loser, so I’d stick to the FBS programs at least initially, and enforce the future requirement that any FCS programs being promoted must be R1 already. Can’t really enforce it strongly for FBS, since we’re already allowing truck driving schools that can’t even spell ph.D into the conference.

Maybe we can split into divisions - jocks (non-R1) and nerds (R1)?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

At roughly $10M per year spread among 3 or 4 media partners, I doubt they care all that much about who gets invited.

As @425cougfan pointed out, TX ST won't be bringing many eyeballs outside greater San Marcos.

This seems more like olde-time MWC politics at work.

UNM, for all its shortcomings, is still a flagship university from a conference that's traditionally one notch below the Pac

UT rejects more students that it admits and there are a lot of TX ST alum in the Austin/ SA/ Lower Texas areas. Ironic that you're using the same bullshit logic that arguably lead to WSU being left behind - "San Marcos is podunk and there aren't that many eyes to garner."

 

[PeteTheChop]

UT rejects more students that it admits and there are a lot of TX ST alum in the Austin/ SA/ Lower Texas areas. Ironic that you're using the same bullshit logic that arguably lead to WSU being left behind - "San Marcos is podunk and there aren't that many eyes to garner."

TX ST has a lot of alums for sure with more on the way.

But will many of them closely follow the program -- or are they gonna do what they did before they enrolled in college and watch Texas or A&M play in the SEC while they half-heartedly keep up with the Bobcats playing against schools out West?

Be willing to bet WSU's TV ratings dwarf Texas State's

 

[dgibbons]

That's pretty funny. You regurgitate crap all the time Gibby. Want me to bring the receipts?

And Pete makes a good point/comparison here. "We" scoff at the remaining MW teams but are fired up to add a school 2,000 miles away that is no better than the MW bottom feeders in FB, and that I believe sucks in BB.

And ASU would have been relegated? Is that the same ASU team that won the Big-12 in FB in 2024? Yeah, let's go with that. Cougs would have been what - 4th? in the MW if our FB games with them were league games. And we were 6th in the WCC in Basketball.

Go lose your wallet. And even a brain dead idiot like you should even realize that WSU was relegated before ASU won the Big XII, and that winning doesn't matter, as stated.

 

[UberCougars]

#### population within a 100-mile radius of TX ST campus is estimated at 4.8–5.2 million people.

- - - - - -

And…

Approximately 70,000–100,000 Texas State University alumni live within a 150-mile radius of the San Marcos campus.

💥 How do these demographics match up with WSU?

#####- Total Estimate: Combining urban centers (~610,000 from Spokane metro, ~180,000 from Kootenai, ~65,000 from Walla Walla County, ~43,000 from Nez Perce, ~40,000 from Latah) and rural areas (~100,000–150,000), the total population is approximately 1–1.2 million. This accounts for 2023 growth estimates (1–2% annually) and partial inclusion of outer counties.

 

[UberCougars]

- Comparison to Texas State: The 150-mile radius around Texas State (San Marcos, TX) estimated 70,000–100,000 alumni for a population of ~12–13 million, reflecting Texas’s denser urban areas (Austin, San Antonio, Houston). Pullman’s lower population (~1.8–2.2 million) and rural setting suggest fewer alumni, but WSU’s regional focus keeps the proportion comparable.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Go lose your wallet. And even a brain dead idiot like you should even realize that WSU was relegated before ASU won the Big XII, and that winning doesn't matter, as stated.

Braindead idiot? Why Gibby, aren't you nasty today? And it was not even lunchtime when you posted. Twice. Naughty boy. Maybe your boss needs to know that you are hurling personal insults on a public message board during work hours, probably from your work computer. Naughty naughty. To quote Khan: I spit on you.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I think your R1 idea was the seed of my regional monopoly thought. Not sure I’d dig down into FCS, largely because I think you’ve still got to put a product on the field. Even with a monopoly, putting a matchup like Nevada-Montana on the air is going to be a loser, so I’d stick to the FBS programs at least initially, and enforce the future requirement that any FCS programs being promoted must be R1 already. Can’t really enforce it strongly for FBS, since we’re already allowing truck driving schools that can’t even spell ph.D into the conference.

Maybe we can split into divisions - jocks (non-R1) and nerds (R1)?

With a roster limit you will see the talent disperse into the FCS schools. It will take a season or two but it will be competitive.

If the foundation of your conference is tier 1 research, why wouldnt you want to build those FCS schools up?

As for putting Reno vs Montana on tv, what else is there? You are who you are. Not who you are not. The comparison to Power Conferences isnt fair. And as long as there is a roster limit to promote competitiveness, why wouldnt Reno vs Montana get viewers? People watch great tv.

 

[UberCougars]

Promote competitiveness?

No. No one in power is searching for competitiveness.

Money + Power = all-that-matters moving forward.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I think your R1 idea was the seed of my regional monopoly thought. ?

With a roster limit you will see the talent disperse into the FCS schools. It will take a season or two but it will be competitive.

If the foundation of your conference is tier 1 research, why wouldnt you want to build those FCS schools up?

As for putting Reno vs Montana on tv, what else is there? You are who you are. Not who you are not. The comparison to Power Conferences isnt fair. And as long as there is a roster limit to promote competitiveness, why wouldnt Reno vs Montana get viewers? People watch great tv.

So I got curious and looked up "R1" criteria. Among other things, you now (only) need $50M in annual research expenditures. I see that this changed just this year. I was sure that the research threshold was higher before.

"For the 2025 Carnegie Classifications, the threshold is set at $50 million in total R&D spending and 70 doctoral research degrees (for R1)"

2025 Research Activity Designations FAQs

carnegieclassifications.acenet.edu

As for BJC and Trucking School, they "aspire" to be R1. So they are less than $50M. Isn't WSU at like $300M? Of course BSU is in a red state and we aren't, so those federal research dollars could shift in a hurry.

Reno vs Montana makes me muse about Wyoming. Not much of a metro but they have the entire state. They have been known to beat WSU. And I believe that they are R1 (although again, those ranks will likely swell with these "updated" criteria). I'd take them over Texas State and certainly NMSU.

Speaking of, there isn't much talk here about how the Pac-2 has boxed itself into a corner with our only real options being TSU and NMSU. Boy, you really swung for the fences Teresa. Hit the ball right into the Sun Belt and Conference USA. Did you see where Sac St. might get their FBS application denied, in large part because they don't have a conference to go to? I mean C'mon Pac-2. We are in desperation mode. Sac St might be a hail Mary but that's where we are. C'mon Teresa, summon your inner Doug Flutie.

BTW, I told you so........

 

[BiggsCoug]

Promote competitiveness?

No. No one in power is searching for competitiveness.

Money + Power = all-that-matters moving forward.

The NFL is all competitiveness and they are doing well. So yes, the league with the most $$$, the most power and the most competitiveness disagrees with you.

Sit this thread out. Stop drinking paint.

 

[UberCougars]

The NFL is all competitiveness and they are doing well. So yes, the league with the most $$$, the most power and the most competitiveness disagrees with you.

Yes, I am aware of the call for a Big-10/SEC Spinoff Superleague of 28-32 teams.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

At roughly $10M per year spread among 3 or 4 media partners, I doubt they care all that much about who gets invited.

As @425cougfan pointed out, TX ST won't be bringing many eyeballs outside greater San Marcos.

This seems more like olde-time MWC politics at work.

UNM, for all its shortcomings, is still a flagship university from a conference that's traditionally one notch below the Pac

And yet the MWC in its current form is getting offered less than half of what the Pac teams might get....so apparently they do care who gets involved? If they don't care, why isn't the MWC getting more money? Oh yeah, that's right, they do care.

 

[CougPatrol]

I'm not excited about Texas State, but they have significantly more upside than any remaining MWC schools.

In 2024, Texas State's undergraduate enrollment was 36K with over 8,100 freshmen students. In 2023, they averaged 21,543 fans for football. In 2024, their attendance rose to 23,619. Their 5-year attendance is up 35%. This is in spite of playing in a terrible football conference.

New Mexico's undergraduate enrollment in 2024 was 17K. New Mexico averaged 16,001 fans for football in 2024.

It seems Texas State is doing what WSU needs to do. Admit as many kids in the NW as you can.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Stop drinking paint uberaddict.

 

[Coug1990]

At roughly $10M per year spread among 3 or 4 media partners, I doubt they care all that much about who gets invited.

As @425cougfan pointed out, TX ST won't be bringing many eyeballs outside greater San Marcos.

This seems more like olde-time MWC politics at work.

UNM, for all its shortcomings, is still a flagship university from a conference that's traditionally one notch below the Pac

Market size does matter. That is why OSU and WSU were left out despite having better ratings than many P4 schools. Whether anybody watches Texas State is irrelevant. What is relevant to the networks is market size and Texas State is in a huge market.

 

[UberCougars]

Market size does matter. That is why OSU and WSU were left out despite having better ratings than many P4 schools. Whether anybody watches Texas State is irrelevant. What is relevant to the networks is market size and Texas State is in a huge market.

Bingo.