Including this season,

[425cougfan]

425, Chip, my post was to those coug fans, others who have said that Leach's recruiting has SUCKED, because ranked 11th out of Pac 12, etc.

I am not arguing against the rankings. The rankings are what they are.

What I am arguing against, saying something like "Leach is a terrible recruiter, because his recruiting classes have been ranked 40th to 60th, and 11th out of Pac 12.

Theoretically WSU, Leach could recruit almost all 4 star players, and still be ranked 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12, because the Top 39, nationally could theoretically recruit almost all 5 stars, and the top 10 Pac 12 teams could theoretically recruit almost all 5 stars, and if that were to happen, some would say, "see WSU, Leach recruiting SUCKS, because WSU 40th to 60th, 11th in Pac 12, ignoring WSU's 4 star recruits.

That is why shouldnt look at ONLY the rankings, shouldnt say "WSU, Leach recruiting sucks, because 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12"

Instead you look at things like "Oh WSU, Leach has A LOT OF 3,4 STARS, so WSU Leach recruiting good, no matter what the actual recruiting ranking is"

Or "WSU, Leach is flipping, beating out a lot of good programs, for 3,4 star recruits, so WSU leach recruiting good no matter what ranking is"

Or "WSU, Leach, sure is having a lot of 2,3 star recruits, upgraded to 4 star rankings, so WSU, Leach recruiting good no matter what ranking is".

Now Theoretically, if WSU recruited a Lot of 1,2 star recruits, was ranked 25th to 50th, 5th out of Pac 12.

It would be wrong to say, WSU sure is recruiting good, because of higher ranking.

Instead one would, should say "WSU recruiting SUCKS because it only recruiting 1,2 stars, no matter how good, high WSU recruiting ranking is"

Now I said theoretically, because a WSU recruiting class, filled with 1,2 stars would not be highly ranked.

The person of course that is most guilty of seeing Leach's 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12, and saying "That Sucks", is COUG ED, who wrongly, illogically tried to argue that WSU wasnt going to have success because of Leach's Classes that had a LOT OF 3,4 STAR RECRUITS, that ranked 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12, were supposedly bad because of recruiting class ranking.

I, others knew WSU, Leach had good recruiting classes, be successful because of:

Lots of 3,4 stars

Beat out good programs for recruits

Flipped recruits from good programs

Good programs offered recruits

Recruits were upgraded to 4 stars.

Those things made recruiting classes good no matter what ranking.

Cool, I think we're on the same page. I've been saying Leach's recruiting is good for a long time despite the national and Pac-12 class ranks as well. I do, however, think it could improve a bit if we're going to be a legitimate challenger for conference titles every year, as opposed to what we saw from 2015 through 2017.

Still a little early to judge this year, both in terms of ultimate achievement and what we wind up attributing most of the success to. Lots of UW douchebags and the like are saying it's just because Leach struck gold with Minshew. I think that's overly simplistic, but I want to see how the remaining games go.

 

[moondawgie]

There is a misperception, accidental false narrative, revisionism by coug fans and others that WSU can't recruit well, and hasnt recruited well at any point during Leach's Tenure as HC at WSU, and that Leach is supposedly just, only a good evaluator, developer, and not a good recruiter.

Leach's recruits are, is, have been typically high end 3 star, low end 4 star recruit. In Rival's recruit ranking system, ranging from NR to 5.5 to 6.0+,above,etc, the 4 star recruit line starts at 5.7,5.8. A 5.7, 5.8 is a low end 4 star recruit. A 5.5, 5.6 is a high end 3 star recruit. Somewhere between most to almost all Leach's recruits, have been 5.5,5.6,5.7,5.8 high end 3 star, low end 4 star recruits.

Also Leach beats out other good teams, flips other good teams, recruits.

Examples would be Borghi, a high end 3 star, Jamire Calvin a low end 4 star, Drue Jackson a low end 4 star.

Another thing that happens a lot, is that often a Leach 2 star, 3 star recruit gets bumped, upgraded up 1 star, making 2, 3 star recruits into 3, 4 star recruits.

Another thing that happens is Leach recruits often get many offers from the blue blood programs, after leach offers, gets the verbal, but despite that Leach often still beats them out, gets the commit, signing over the blue blood offer programs.

Another thing that fans others dont get:

Is fans, others will look at WSU, Leach's, last 1,2 years classes, see the 40th to 60th ranking, 11th out of pac 12 ranking and wrongly think WSU's, Leach's recruiting class sucks.

They dont see that the class has almost all 3 star, 4 stars, 9 to 17 high end 3 stars, 5.5,5.6's, 3,4,5,6,7 low end 4 stars(5.7's, upgraded 3 stars, into 4 stars)only 1,2,3 2 stars, only 1,2,3 NR

They only see that the above type class is typically ranked about 40th to 60th, 11th in pac 12.

Some may think, how can such a good WSU class be ranked so low?

The answer is if you took the above exampled class, put it into a time machine, took it back to the 80's, 90's, the class would probably be ranked about 23 at best to 33rd at worst, and would probably be about ranked 4th to 7th in Pac 10.

Pac 12 recruiting has gotten good enough that one could recruit a 9 to 17 3 stars, 4 to 8 4 stars, 39th ranked class, and still only be ranked 10th, 11th in Pac 12.

This is why one can't, should not go by national, Pac 12 recruiting ranks, in determing whether WSU, Leach, is recruiting good, and whether the class sucks or not.

Instead you go by:

If the WSU, Leach class has lots of 3 stars, 4 stars that Leach beat out blue blood programs for.

If the WSU Leach class has lots pf recruits that were offered lots of offers by blue blood programs

If WSU Leach class has had a lot of its recruits upgraded from 2,3 stars, to 3,4 stars.

Going by those things, WSU, Leach has been a very good recruiter. He has recruited 3,4 stars. His recruits have a lot of offers from blue blood programs. He has beat out good programs for good 3,4 star recruits. His recruits have been upgraded to 3,4 stars from 2,3 stars

Going by that, Leach is, has been a very good recruiting HC for WSU

Shhh! Can't you see that coug fans are working up their excuses for another loss? Don't ruin it.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Shhh! Can't you see that coug fans are working up their excuses for another loss? Don't ruin it.

Yep UW is back in their comfort zone 8-3 and looking for a AC win so they can get smoked in the Rose Bowl.

A decent team that will stay within 10-20 in the polls is that program's ceiling. Main reason is they can not win a meaningful game outside of the AC.

Even read on the Husky boards about how the Oregon and Cal. losses did not matter. A true statement but what program with an ounce of self-pride thinks or says something like that.

Actually think deep down they are glad to have lost those games as it took the pressure off them having people actually watch their game until the AC.

 

[moondawgie]

Yep UW is back in their comfort zone 8-3 and looking for a AC win so they can get smoked in the Rose Bowl.

A decent team that will stay within 10-20 in the polls is that program's ceiling. Main reason is they can not win a meaningful game outside of the AC.

Way to come to the defense of coug fans non coug fan guy.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Way to come to the defense of coug fans non coug fan guy.

Just speaking the truth and you know it.

Like your boards even say the Auburn/Oregon and Cal. games did not matter because you will always have the AC.

That is great and fine to find your comfort zone, just find it a little funny and odd for a fan base that always talks a big game about belonging in the playoffs every pre-season.

 

[425cougfan]

Yep UW is back in their comfort zone 8-3 and looking for a AC win so they can get smoked in the Rose Bowl.

A decent team that will stay within 10-20 in the polls is that program's ceiling. Main reason is they can not win a meaningful game outside of the AC.

Even read on the Husky boards about how the Oregon and Cal. losses did not matter. A true statement but what program with an ounce of self-pride thinks or says something like that.

Actually think deep down they are glad to have lost those games as it took the pressure off them having people actually watch their game until the AC.

It's pure rationalization (i.e., bullshit, to use that a second time in this thread), but I've gotta say, it will really suck if such a subpar UW team can still win the AC, get past an injury-ridden Utah team in the title game, and find itself in the Rose Bowl despite all the attention recently (rightly) being placed on the Cougs. They've been able to stay under the radar ever since the Oregon game.

 

[moondawgie]

Just speaking the truth and you know it.

Like your boards even say the Auburn/Oregon and Cal. games did not matter because you will always have the AC.

That is great and fine to find your comfort zone, just find it a little funny and odd for a fan base that always talks a big game about belonging in the playoffs every pre-season.

Speaking of funny and odd...

 

[PINGDUDE4]

It's pure rationalization (i.e., bullshit, to use that a second time in this thread), but I've gotta say, it will really suck if such a subpar UW team can still win the AC, get past an injury-ridden Utah team in the title game, and find itself in the Rose Bowl despite all the attention recently (rightly) being placed on the Cougs. They've been able to stay under the radar ever since the Oregon game.

Actually kind of sad that UW did not hold up their end. If both teams came into this game 10-1, I really do think that the winner would get in the playoffs. Where UW someday will be kicking themselves is WSU continues them the opportunity for a quality end of season win and it really does not do much for them as they have punched the pooch in all of their other meaningful games.

Also kind of funny if someone polled the fans watching this game who they wanted to win, I am presuming UW would win in the State of Washington . But as you moved further outside of that region, Nationally it would be overwhelmly for WSU. It is kind of funny that Pete had Boise getting some national interest, but he somehow has not gotten that to carry over to what is obviously a better program at UW.

 

[mikalalas]

You need to do a little homework before you go flying off the handle Mik—given that there are roughly 400 4 and 5 star recruits each year (about 30 of those would be 5star), it’s not mathematically possible for the top 39 nationally and top 10 P12 teams to recruit mostly 5 star players, not even If you threw in the 4 stars with the 5s. Hell, there’s barely enough 5s for the top 5 blue bloods to get 5 or 6. While a WSU 40-50 class ranking doesn’t mean those players suck, there is without a doubt a difference between what we’re getting and the top feeders are getting.

I said in my post about the WSU getting all 4 stars, while everybody else gets all 5 stars thing was NOT POSSIBLE, THEORETICAL.

The point is WSU PROBABLY WILL, WOULD NEVER EVER CATCH UP WITH THR REST OF THE nation, Pac 12 in recruiting

IF it was possible, which not possible, and IF WSU were to get ALL 5 stars all the time, and IF it were possible for everybody else to get all 5 stars(Not possible), everybody else's 5 stars would be better then WSU, and WSU would still have the 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12 ranking. And people would still say WSU recruiting sucks because of 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12 ranking.

That is the point, NOT WSU, everybody recruiting 5 stars.

The point is that WSU wont ever catch up in recruiting no matter how awesome WSU does in recruiting.

In another comment, I pointed out 37 technical 4 stars. 10 clear 4 stars, 17 borderline 4 stars, (RR, Rivals Ranking of 5.7(5.6 is 3 star, 5.7 is borderline 4 star, 5.8 is 4 star),upgraded 4 stars

Now 37 4 stars is FREAKING AWESOME RECRUITING

but despite 37 4 stars being awesome recruiting, apparently 37 4 stars is only good enough for 40th to 60th average, 10th out of Pac 12 average per year average.

That just shows that WSU never catch up no matter what WSU does, because in the past WSU never came close to having close to 37 4 stars in a WSU coaching tenure.

Leach is the only one, first to get 37 4 stars for WSU and it hasnt made WSU go up in rankings

Hence my point that no matter how awesome WSU does in recruiting, WSU will probably always be 40th to 60th 11th out of pac 12.

The point is that WSU Leach is good at getting lots of 4 stars, like 37, and is thus good at recruiting no matter what WSU's actual recruit ranking is, and thus that no coug, COUG ED, others should not say WSU, Leach recruiting sucks, or that Leach is ONLY a good evaluator, etc.

 

[acgcoug]

Just speaking the truth and you know it.

Like your boards even say the Auburn/Oregon and Cal. games did not matter because you will always have the AC.

That is great and fine to find your comfort zone, just find it a little funny and odd for a fan base that always talks a big game about belonging in the playoffs every pre-season.

Signed: AuburnDawg

 

[Coug90]

Shhh! Can't you see that coug fans are working up their excuses for another loss? Don't ruin it.

Douche parade, right on schedule!

 

[mikalalas]

For me, the better metric of recruiting success is at the end of a player's college career, not before he takes his first snap. A few of those 4-stars either never made it into school or didn't pan out. Several 2-stars end up being great Cougar players. The odds are that a higher ranked recruit will end up being a better player, but it's a lot easier to look back and know for sure how good a recruiting class actually turns out. With the successful seasons Leach has had recently, I'm satisfied with the level of recruiting even though I know it can get even better.

Glad Cougar

Valid point of your to be sure.

Leach is a good evaluator. Not saying he isn't.

I'm just saying, proving with the 37 4 stars, that Leach is ALSO a good recruiter at getting 4 stars, and is NOT ONLY JUST a good evaluator ONLY.

You, Tron are right about 4,5 star recruits.

Its amazing how MANY of those 37 4 stars either did not make it in, didnt play, left, washed out, were injured, didnt produce, and How FEW of those 37 4 stars produced.

Its a good thing that Leach is a good evaluator in addition to getting 4 stars, and recruited 3 stars, others that did produce for WSU

 

[fingerdisco]

I said in my post about the WSU getting all 4 stars, while everybody else gets all 5 stars thing was NOT POSSIBLE, THEORETICAL.

The point is WSU PROBABLY WILL, WOULD NEVER EVER CATCH UP WITH THR REST OF THE nation, Pac 12 in recruiting

IF it was possible, which not possible, and IF WSU were to get ALL 5 stars all the time, and IF it were possible for everybody else to get all 5 stars(Not possible), everybody else's 5 stars would be better then WSU, and WSU would still have the 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12 ranking. And people would still say WSU recruiting sucks because of 40th to 60th, 11th out of Pac 12 ranking.

That is the point, NOT WSU, everybody recruiting 5 stars.

The point is that WSU wont ever catch up in recruiting no matter how awesome WSU does in recruiting.

In another comment, I pointed out 37 technical 4 stars. 10 clear 4 stars, 17 borderline 4 stars, (RR, Rivals Ranking of 5.7(5.6 is 3 star, 5.7 is borderline 4 star, 5.8 is 4 star),upgraded 4 stars

Now 37 4 stars is FREAKING AWESOME RECRUITING

but despite 37 4 stars being awesome recruiting, apparently 37 4 stars is only good enough for 40th to 60th average, 10th out of Pac 12 average per year average.

That just shows that WSU never catch up no matter what WSU does, because in the past WSU never came close to having close to 37 4 stars in a WSU coaching tenure.

Leach is the only one, first to get 37 4 stars for WSU and it hasnt made WSU go up in rankings

Hence my point that no matter how awesome WSU does in recruiting, WSU will probably always be 40th to 60th 11th out of pac 12.

The point is that WSU Leach is good at getting lots of 4 stars, like 37, and is thus good at recruiting no matter what WSU's actual recruit ranking is, and thus that no coug, COUG ED, others should not say WSU, Leach recruiting sucks, or that Leach is ONLY a good evaluator, etc.

That’s a lotta points

Theoretically Leach could pull in 25 5-star kids a year and dethrone Saban by winning the NC every year until he retires. Theoretically.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The uw is 37-14 overall and 25-10 in conference the last four seasons. During the same period, WSU is 36-14 and 26-9. I write this because in listening to the radio here in Seattle, a few of the hosts give the coaching edge to Petersen.

I believe that over that time, the uw has had more talent. They have had numerous high draft picks (many of them were signed by Sarkisian). Yes, the uw has had WSU's number and I think they were a little better. But, I believe that Leach is better than a lot of people believe and Petersen is not quite as good as most people believe.

Good points. UW has considerably better talent across the board (except starting QBs)...and more depth. Petersen is really good though. Until we beat UW though, many will not consider us as a team that will win the Pac12.

I have to constantly remind others that we have beaten Oregon 4 straight seasons...Utah 4 straight seasons...Furd 3 straight seasons...Beavs 5 straight seasons. Most react with "really?".

http://www.winsipedia.com/compare

Not to rain on the parade, but some SEC program will come knocking on the door throwing a ton of money at Leach. We dodged a bullet with Tennessee last year...but there will be others...and soon.