Is in-state recruiting important for WSU?

[PeteTheChop]

WSU offers two kids from Spokane in the upcoming recruiting class -- one commits to Cal, the other to Utah.

A couple folks grumble on Brand X, but does it even matter (and maybe those were just courtesy offers from WSU)?

Mike Leach has signed 11 in-state players in his first four recruiting classes (8 of those signees are on the current roster).

Paul Wulff signed 23 in-state players in his four recruiting classes. There were a few keepers for sure (Jared Karstetter, Travis Long, Casey Locker, Gino Simone, Xavier Cooper, John Fullington, Connor Halliday, Jake Rodgers, etc.).

But CPW went just 4-32 in conference games.

CML, on the other hand, is a much-better 7-20 in conference and almost won a bowl game in 2013.

If the Cougs improve as much as many expect this fall under Leach, why would anyone be the least bit concerned with where WSU gets its recruits?

 

[YakiCoug]

WSU offers two kids from Spokane in the upcoming recruiting class -- one commits to Cal, the other to Utah.

A couple folks grumble on Brand X, but does it even matter (and maybe those were just courtesy offers from WSU)?

Mike Leach has signed 11 in-state players in his first four recruiting classes (8 of those signees are on the current roster).

Paul Wulff signed 23 in-state players in his four recruiting classes. There were a few keepers for sure (Jared Karstetter, Travis Long, Casey Locker, Gino Simone, Xavier Cooper, John Fullington, Connor Halliday, Jake Rodgers, etc.).

But CPW went just 4-32 in conference games.

CML, on the other hand, is a much-better 7-20 in conference and almost won a bowl game in 2013.

If the Cougs improve as much as many expect this fall under Leach, why would anyone be the least bit concerned with where WSU gets its recruits?

Well, if the Iron Laws are to be adhered to, then one must consider that WSU has virtually never gathered a lot of in-state talent in any recruiting year. That said, WSU has extended offers to quite a few in-state prospects this year. So far, only Weaver is a significant loss, in my view. I really liked his camp highlights. He's very quick off the ball.

 

[79COUG]

You get the occasional Bledsoe or Derting and quite a few get away, but all in all it doesn't make or break the program, in my opinion.

 

[longtimecoug]

WSU offers two kids from Spokane in the upcoming recruiting class -- one commits to Cal, the other to Utah.

A couple folks grumble on Brand X, but does it even matter (and maybe those were just courtesy offers from WSU)?

Mike Leach has signed 11 in-state players in his first four recruiting classes (8 of those signees are on the current roster).

Paul Wulff signed 23 in-state players in his four recruiting classes. There were a few keepers for sure (Jared Karstetter, Travis Long, Casey Locker, Gino Simone, Xavier Cooper, John Fullington, Connor Halliday, Jake Rodgers, etc.).

But CPW went just 4-32 in conference games.

CML, on the other hand, is a much-better 7-20 in conference and almost won a bowl game in 2013.

If the Cougs improve as much as many expect this fall under Leach, why would anyone be the least bit concerned with where WSU gets its recruits?

I'm not concerned

 

[BiggsCoug]

I'd make one or two passes thru the state but I wouldn't kill myself trying to land local kids. There's not enough of them and they've shown little interest in WSU. Not that WSU has done much to help itself though.

The fact that past staffs have had two coaches recruiting the state is mind boggling. Committing that many resources to such a small talent base is ludicrous.

 

[Cougatron]

Here's the main issue... if they are really good...they usually leave the state. See Myles Jack / Max Browne.

It's just how those kids are. They see a bigger world out there, and they want to experience it. This can change if we become a premiere program, but still there are so few guys in state that meet the high caliber threshold.

It's basically population / Competition / Coaching.

Those 3 aspects = talent

The total population of Washington is small. At 7 million total. That's it. Now think about how many of those are highschool football players? A very very very small amount. Now think about how many of those are good enough to play division 1 football? It's a very small handful.

Oregon has 18 players from Oregon total on their roster. Just 18 from their state.
Oregon State has 23 players from Oregon total on their roster.

We have 35 from Washington on our roster.
The Huskies have 36 from Washington on their roster.

I would love to have a roster full of players from Washington State...IF it would mean we could compete, but we can't.

 

[froropmkr72]

I'd make one or two passes thru the state but I wouldn't kill myself trying to land local kids. There's not enough of them and they've shown little interest in WSU. Not that WSU has done much to help itself though.

The fact that past staffs have had two coaches recruiting the state is mind boggling. Committing that many resources to such a small talent base is ludicrous.

Mind boggling indeed. Maybe it's a way of giving a coach a year-after-year mulligan in recruiting. Might as well assign someone to Idaho in order to put a fence around the "gem state".

 

[froropmkr72]

Here's the main issue... if they are really good...they usually leave the state. See Myles Jack / Max Browne.

It's just how those kids are. They see a bigger world out there, and they want to experience it. This can change if we become a premiere program, but still there are so few guys in state that meet the high caliber threshold.

It's basically population / Competition / Coaching.

Those 3 aspects = talent

The total population of Washington is small. At 7 million total. That's it. Now think about how many of those are highschool football players? A very very very small amount. Now think about how many of those are good enough to play division 1 football? It's a very small handful.

Oregon has 18 players from Oregon total on their roster. Just 18 from their state.
Oregon State has 23 players from Oregon total on their roster.

We have 35 from Washington on our roster.
The Huskies have 36 from Washington on their roster.

I would love to have a roster full of players from Washington State...IF it would mean we could compete, but we can't.

Oregon has something like 22 being watched at this time while Washington has 44 (which is not deserved). Some more from Oregon are going to be on the NFL draft watch list while some from the Washington list are going to end up at Weber State....riding the bench.

 

[Cougatron]

Also looking at NFL players by state Washington ranks #21...

The number 1 state....California.

California
Florida
Texas
etc.
Arizona even has more players in the NFL than Washington.
In fact we have as many NFL players as Connecticut. so that will tell you all you need to know about how much talent is in the state of Washington.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Here's the main issue... if they are really good...they usually leave the state ... I would love to have a roster full of players from Washington State...IF it would mean we could compete, but we can't.

Well said.

Is it possible one of Paul Wulff's primary issues was that he spent too much time recruiting in state instead of focusing on LA, Dallas, Houston and other talent hotbeds?

 

[YakiCoug]

Here's the main issue... if they are really good...they usually leave the state. See Myles Jack / Max Browne.

It's just how those kids are. They see a bigger world out there, and they want to experience it. This can change if we become a premiere program, but still there are so few guys in state that meet the high caliber threshold.

It's basically population / Competition / Coaching.

Those 3 aspects = talent

The total population of Washington is small. At 7 million total. That's it. Now think about how many of those are highschool football players? A very very very small amount. Now think about how many of those are good enough to play division 1 football? It's a very small handful.

Oregon has 18 players from Oregon total on their roster. Just 18 from their state.
Oregon State has 23 players from Oregon total on their roster.

We have 35 from Washington on our roster.
The Huskies have 36 from Washington on their roster.

I would love to have a roster full of players from Washington State...IF it would mean we could compete, but we can't.

The best o-linemen almost always head to Stanford if they're academically sound. The best In-state linemen generally go elsewhere.

 

[wulffui]

How many suburban/rural WA kids were staples on any of the three ten win teams? I think a healthy amount.

 

[Cougatron]

Well said.

Is it possible one of Paul Wulff's primary issues was that he spent too much time recruiting in state instead of focusing on LA, Dallas, Houston and other talent hotbeds?

It's part of it. In 2011 he had 47 kids from the state of washington on the roster. So given the numbers I mentioned earlier that should show you how sort of off he was. That's 12 more than what WSU/UW have right now.

Wulff wasn't prepared to coach at the BCS level when he walked in. Remember he was at Eastern and so the way you would recruit for Eastern really doesn't translate well in the BCS sense. With Eastern you basically pull from kids from local highschools + the outcasts / problem children from the big schools.

Looking at Eastern's Roster right now they have 67 from Washington High schools.

So as you can see from Wulff's 47 in year 4 he was acting like he was recruiting for Eastern (which is what he knows), and well the results are bad. You can do that sort of thing in California, Texas, Florida etc. because those are talent rich states, but in Washington? forget it.

Basically Roster Management / Recruiting were the major nails in Wulff's coffin. He wasn't that good of a coach himself so that hurt him as well.

Boise State? Just like Oregon...only 19 kids from the state of Idaho.
38 From California and 14 from Texas... they have about as many kids from Texas as they do from Idaho.

As much grief as we give them at Boise for being a trucker college. They knew better than we did on where the good players were and they've been going out and getting them from the talent rich areas for over a decade.

 

[Cougatron]

How many suburban/rural WA kids were staples on any of the three ten win teams? I think a healthy amount.

Well I'll check it out.

Arizona - 4
ASU - 1
UCLA - 2
USC - 3
Utah - 2
Stanford - 6
Oregon - 4

So that's just on the roster. As far as major contributors? Not many.

It's not as if we are allowing some gigantic amount to be siphoned out of the state. As I said earlier the players that are really good want to go elsewhere because they equate being good with being able to leave. When we get batter more of the in state talent that can compete will side with us. But currently it's nothing to worry about.

 

[wulffui]

Well I'll check it out.

Arizona - 4
ASU - 1
UCLA - 2
USC - 3
Utah - 2
Stanford - 6
Oregon - 4

So that's just on the roster. As far as major contributors? Not many.

It's not as if we are allowing some gigantic amount to be siphoned out of the state. As I said earlier the players that are really good want to go elsewhere because they equate being good with being able to leave. When we get batter more of the in state talent that can compete will side with us. But currently it's nothing to worry about.

Sorry, I was talking about our '01-03 teams- there was specifically a fair amount of in state representation, particularly from "beating the bushes" kind of places like Anacortes, Centralia and Elma, among others.

Once we're decent to good, we'll get good instate talent, because it's fun to own your area when you own it. When it's a badge of national derision and the people closest in state saw just how bad it was, there's MORE incentive to not be part of that.

 

[Cougatron]

Sorry, I was talking about our '01-03 teams- there was specifically a fair amount of in state representation, particularly from "beating the bushes" kind of places like Anacortes, Centralia and Elma, among others.

Once we're decent to good, we'll get good instate talent, because it's fun to own your area when you own it. When it's a badge of national derision and the people closest in state saw just how bad it was, there's MORE incentive to not be part of that.

Yeah we kind of have to get back to being good again to secure the top in state talent. We're on our way, but we are establishing really great pipelines in other regions so we are in good shape for the future.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Wulff wasn't prepared to coach at the BCS level when he walked in. Remember he was at Eastern and so the way you would recruit for Eastern really doesn't translate well in the BCS sense. With Eastern you basically pull from kids from local highschools + the outcasts / problem children from the big schools.

Looking at Eastern's Roster right now they have 67 from Washington High schools.

So as you can see from Wulff's 47 in year 4 he was acting like he was recruiting for Eastern (which is what he knows), and well the results are bad. You can do that sort of thing in California, Texas, Florida etc. because those are talent rich states, but in Washington? forget it.

Basically Roster Management / Recruiting were the major nails in Wulff's coffin.

Makes a lot of sense when you put it like that.

Mike Leach must be in agreement, too ... WSU signed two in-state players in 2014 and zero in 2015 -- and last year's recruiting class was a de-commitment or two from cracking the Top 20 nationally.

WSU's improvement the last three years proves Leach is worth every bit of his $2.2 million salary, but maybe WSU could've turned the corner under Wulff, too, if only he would've taken a savvier approach to recruiting.

Guess that's open for debate, although former coach Jim Walden seems to insist CPW was on the verge of a turnaround before he was fired in 2011.

Didn't get to see many WSU games under Wulff, so who knows?

 

[Observer11]

Mike Price went to two Rose Bowls with the philosophy of "the arms and legs of Cougar football come from California but the heart comes from the State of Washington".

That likely means most of the walk-ons are in-state but you can't discount the Erik Colemans, Marcus Trufants and Jeremy Williams' in terms of signing a few of the state's top tier talent.

It appears that Leach is learning that he can't entirely disregard in-state talent like he did the first couple years in Pullman. I would expect once his new staff members get a little more acclimated with the local high school coaches, the Cougs will close on a couple more like Peck and Weaver.

 

[YakiCoug]

Mike Price went to two Rose Bowls with the philosophy of "the arms and legs of Cougar football come from California but the heart comes from the State of Washington".

That likely means most of the walk-ons are in-state but you can't discount the Erik Colemans, Marcus Trufants and Jeremy Williams' in terms of signing a few of the state's top tier talent.

It appears that Leach is learning that he can't entirely disregard in-state talent like he did the first couple years in Pullman. I would expect once his new staff members get a little more acclimated with the local high school coaches, the Cougs will close on a couple more like Peck and Weaver.

By the time he assembled a staff after his hiring, it wasn't a matter of disregarding in-state talent. The best of the best had already been claimed, and there was no way Leach immediately would wipe out the 6-and-40 hangover this program was in.

 

[wulffui]

The best of the best had already been claimed, and there was no way Leach immediately would wipe out the 6-and-40 hangover this program was in.

I feel like that was amplified in state, too- reading about how bad the dump smells is one thing. But when you live next to the dump and experience it every day...

 

[Cougatron]

Mike Price went to two Rose Bowls with the philosophy of "the arms and legs of Cougar football come from California but the heart comes from the State of Washington".

That likely means most of the walk-ons are in-state but you can't discount the Erik Colemans, Marcus Trufants and Jeremy Williams' in terms of signing a few of the state's top tier talent.

It appears that Leach is learning that he can't entirely disregard in-state talent like he did the first couple years in Pullman. I would expect once his new staff members get a little more acclimated with the local high school coaches, the Cougs will close on a couple more like Peck and Weaver.

I don't think Leach ever disregarded instate talent. We just couldn't secure them. I always see most of the top guys in state with WSU offers. It's just that we aren't a winning program again and kids want to play for one. We'll be back in the next few years and when that happens it gets much much easier for us.

 

[Observer11]

By the time he assembled a staff after his hiring, it wasn't a matter of disregarding in-state talent. The best of the best had already been claimed, and there was no way Leach immediately would wipe out the 6-and-40 hangover this program was in.

IIRC he had Breske and Russell as the in-state guys. That is just slightly better than Yarno and Rosie in terms of recruiting prowess.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Mike Price went to two Rose Bowls with the philosophy of "the arms and legs of Cougar football come from California but the heart comes from the State of Washington".

That likely means most of the walk-ons are in-state but you can't discount the Erik Colemans, Marcus Trufants and Jeremy Williams' in terms of signing a few of the state's top tier talent.

It appears that Leach is learning that he can't entirely disregard in-state talent like he did the first couple years in Pullman. I would expect once his new staff members get a little more acclimated with the local high school coaches, the Cougs will close on a couple more like Peck and Weaver.

Agree that they will likely improve with in-state recruiting.

The UW is always going to be tough to beat in the recruiting wars, along with Oregon and other Pac-12 teams.

However, just as the Bennetts went wherever they needed to go to get high quality guys players with good character (for the most part), I don't care if Leach does the same. I've been impressed by his ability to get cerebral players with good talent just as Dick and Tony did.

 

[Coug90]

5*, 4* type kids in Wa would typically be 3* types of they played in any of the recruiting hot zones (Tx, Ca, Fl, etc). Look at Kasen williams/Heaps- good HS players, ok collage players if that...certainly overrated in HS. I'll take the kids leach is pulling out of Cali all day over most of the blue chips from WA.

 

[YakiCoug]

Agree that they will likely improve with in-state recruiting.

The UW is always going to be tough to beat in the recruiting wars, along with Oregon and other Pac-12 teams.

However, just as the Bennetts went wherever they needed to go to get high quality guys players with good character (for the most part), I don't care if Leach does the same. I've been impressed by his ability to get cerebral players with good talent just as Dick and Tony did.

Well, it certainly makes recruiting harder for WSU when the Jeff Razores of the world and rich Bellevue HS boosters are paying high school players (see free and reduced tuition) and directing them to UW coaches.

 

[YakiCoug]

I'm not concerned

Remember that year the Seattle Times ballyhooed a group of so-called CAN'T MISS in-state linemen that included Aaron Klovas and others? Klovas washed out at Oregon, transferred and was pretty much never heard from again. Those who went to the UW washed out. I believe Adam Hineline was in that group and actually started toward the end of the 6 and 40 reign of limpness.
UW fans (chinookpirate et al) shrieked like little girls over how they dominated in-state recruiting.
Here are some of the objects of nookie ruth's desires...

 

[wazzucougs96]

Mike Price went to two Rose Bowls with the philosophy of "the arms and legs of Cougar football come from California but the heart comes from the State of Washington".

That likely means most of the walk-ons are in-state but you can't discount the Erik Colemans, Marcus Trufants and Jeremy Williams' in terms of signing a few of the state's top tier talent.

It appears that Leach is learning that he can't entirely disregard in-state talent like he did the first couple years in Pullman. I would expect once his new staff members get a little more acclimated with the local high school coaches, the Cougs will close on a couple more like Peck and Weaver.

I don't think Leach has ever disregarded in state talent. I think it more so that he has not been able to yet overcome how awful the WSU brand had become. Kids from Spokane don't even want to go to WSU anymore.

 

[chinookpirate]

Sorry, longtime, but... I'm not a Husky. You know that so... that makes you a liar in addition to being stupid.

Aaron Klovas was a member of the 2004 recruiting class.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I don't think Leach has ever disregarded in state talent. I think it more so that he has not been able to yet overcome how awful the WSU brand had become. Kids from Spokane don't even want to go to WSU anymore.

Even though Paul Wulff didn't return WSU to elite status in the Pac-12, he did sign some local gems in Jared Karstetter, Travis Long and Jake Rodgers (who transferred to EWU after Wulff's departure from Pullman) as well as a record-setting quarterback in Connor Halliday.

Even some of his toughest critics might praise CPW for identifying those prospects and bringing them to WSU.

 

[wulffui]

I don't think Leach has ever disregarded in state talent. I think it more so that he has not been able to yet overcome how awful the WSU brand had become. Kids from Spokane don't even want to go to WSU anymore.

Even though Paul Wulff didn't return WSU to elite status in the Pac-12, he did sign some local gems in Jared Karstetter, Travis Long and Jake Rodgers (who transferred to EWU after Wulff's departure from Pullman) as well as a record-setting quarterback in Connor Halliday.

Even some of his toughest critics might praise CPW for identifying those prospects and bringing them to WSU.

That's one guy a year, one of whom committed to Doba.

If that's the bar, then 6-40 makes all the sense in the world.

 

[PeteTheChop]

That's one guy a year, one of whom committed to Doba.

If that's the bar, then 6-40 makes all the sense in the world.

Wasn't Wulff actually 9-40 (not a whole lot better, I know)?

Mike Leach, to his credit, has already won 12 games in three years ... Just curious how much that record will have to improve for the Cougs to land Pac-12 level prospects from east of the Cascades like Danny Mattingly (Oregon), Isaiah Brandt-Sims (Stanford), Brett Rypien (Boise State), Trey Adams (Washington), Shane Lemieux (Oregon), Evan Weaver (Cal) and Scott Peck (Utah).

As some have pointed out earlier, though, CML and his staff may be signing better talent from outside Washington.

In that case, it doesn't matter where the big-name in-state guys go.

 

[Cougatron]

Wasn't Wulff actually 9-40 (not a whole lot better, I know)?

Mike Leach, to his credit, has already won 12 games in three years ... Just curious how much that record will have to improve for the Cougs to land Pac-12 level prospects from east of the Cascades like Danny Mattingly (Oregon), Isaiah Brandt-Sims (Stanford), Brett Rypien (Boise State), Trey Adams (Washington), Shane Lemieux (Oregon), Evan Weaver (Cal) and Scott Peck (Utah).

We need to win 7-9+ consistently to pull in state blue chips. We do that and we'll get the best ones. We may miss out on the upper tier elite, but the good solid ones we will get.

 

[Cougzz]

A recent show on Gleason quoted him in the 8th grade as saying, "I want to play football for the University of Washington." Five years later he starts for the Cougs. It just takes some wins, the public perception that something good is being built and the right interpersonal connections.

 

[froropmkr72]

A recent show on Gleason quoted him in the 8th grade as saying, "I want to play football for the University of Washington." Five years later he starts for the Cougs. It just takes some wins, the public perception that something good is being built and the right interpersonal connections.

They outta build a wall around Spokane ......and just never go back in the place again.

 

[wazzucougs96]

It is insanely frustrating living in Spokane and listening to people from Eastern talk smack because they win games in the Big Sky, as if that matters.

 

[Coug1990]

It is insanely frustrating living in Spokane and listening to people from Eastern talk smack because they win games in the Big Sky, as if that matters.

Small minds get excited about small things.

 

[longtimecoug]

Sorry, longtime, but... I'm not a Husky. You know that so... that makes you a liar in addition to being stupid.

Aaron Klovas was a member of the 2004 recruiting class.

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[chipdouglas]

At the end of the day, the quality of your recruiting class translates better on the field than the origin of your recruiting class. You think that scumbag Urban Meyer loses sleep over losing an in-state kid while he poaches talent from California, Georgia, Florida and Texas? Winning in-state recruiting battles is a symptom, not a cause, of success on the field.

It's a pride thing for UW (e.g.) to say they kept so-and-so in-state for another 7-6 season. If and when we win with California and Texas talent, we'll have better than 7-6 to offer and naturally begin winning more of those in-state battles.

 

[froropmkr72]

what the hell are you talking about?

Just stand back and let the people in the white coats do their job.

 

[BiggsCoug]

At the end of the day, the quality of your recruiting class translates better on the field than the origin of your recruiting class. You think that scumbag Urban Meyer loses sleep over losing an in-state kid while he poaches talent from California, Georgia, Florida and Texas? Winning in-state recruiting battles is a symptom, not a cause, of success on the field.

It's a pride thing for UW (e.g.) to say they kept so-and-so in-state for another 7-6 season. If and when we win with California and Texas talent, we'll have better than 7-6 to offer and naturally begin winning more of those in-state battles.

The more spots a school fills up with Washington kids, the less spots they can fill with LA kids. That's one less school to compete with in LA for players that WSU is pursuing.

I'd love it if WSU could fill their roster with local talent. It isn't going to happen.

There are 2 kids from WA and 1 from OR on the Boise State roster. They've pulled out of the NW entirely. You have to fish where the fish are. You simply can't commit the little time and resources you have to instate kids when there are A. so few of them and B. so little interest in WSU.

WSU should be to LA and California JC's what KSU is to California JC's. There should be a long list and history or LA kids coming up to WSU and being successful. And by long I mean, 250 kids now over 30 years. Any WSU coach should be able to walk into high schools and living rooms in Southern California and be able to produce an enormous amount of examples of 3 star kids that have gone north and left with degrees, successful college careers, successful NFL careers and even successful careers outside of football. Showing kids, coaches and parents that WSU = success in life should be easy by now. It's not. WSU has dropped the ball in recruiting, retention and recently having poor coaches that didn't maximize kids ability.

I hope Leach can correct this and build a pipeline to Southern California.