Jim Waldens' legacy at WSU?

[PeteTheChop]

Nine seasons in charge of Cougar Football

• Won nearly 50 percent of his games despite WSU's facility disadvantages at that time
  
• Single-handedly brought WSU-UW games back to Pullman
  
• Three really good seasons from 1981 through 1984, including Holiday Bowl bid in '81
• Beginning in '82, won 3 of 4 Apple Cups going head-to-head against UW's Hall of Fame coach
• Elevated WSU to a National Brand by developing Jack Thompson, Reuben Mayes, Mark Rypien, Paul Sorensen and others
  
• Folksy personality made the Cougars a media darling

Post-WSU coaching career

• Several underlings from his days in Pullman went on to have success on the WSU staff
• Handled color commentary and the Cougar Radio Network; very popular with the "Blue Hair" crowd even to this day (some want him back on radio broadcasts)
  
• Donated his own $$$ to WSU athletic and academic programs!!!

How do Cougar Fans view Jim Walden's legacy at WSU?

 

[Coug1990]

Nine seasons in charge of Cougar Football

• Won nearly 50 percent of his games despite WSU's facility disadvantages at that time
  
• Single-handedly brought WSU-UW games back to Pullman
  
• Three really good seasons from 1981 through 1984, including Holiday Bowl bid in '81
• Beginning in '82, won 3 of 4 Apple Cups going head-to-head against UW's Hall of Fame coach
• Elevated WSU to a National Brand by developing Jack Thompson, Reuben Mayes, Mark Rypien, Paul Sorensen and others
  
• Folksy personality made the Cougars a media darling

Post-WSU coaching career

• Several underlings from his days in Pullman went on to have success on the WSU staff
• Handled color commentary and the Cougar Radio Network; very popular with the "Blue Hair" crowd even to this day (some want him back on radio broadcasts)
  
• Donated his own $$$ to WSU athletic and academic programs!!!

How do Cougar Fans view Jim Walden's legacy at WSU?

He was and is an idiot.

 

[dgibbons]

He was and is an idiot.

And a hypocrite.

 

[YakiCoug]

He was and is an idiot.

Walden deserves criticism for his ranting over The Turd's firing, but I'm not going to categorically dismiss him. He has done some good things for WSU. Yes, it was easier to get academically marginal student athletes into school back then, but he managed to beat the UW three out of four years during its great run in the early 1980s. And he played a major role in getting "home" games back to Pullman. (EDIT: see FnuLnu's post below regarding the change in the academic calendar. Walden, nonetheless, lobbied hard for all games to be played in Pullman). And he was often very funny. It's just too bad he let Wulff get in the way of all that.

 

[CougPatrol]

Two legacies. Walden the coach and Walden the media guy.

I choose to remember Jim Walden the coach. He made cheering for WSU fun, and his teams stood up to the Montlake bullies during their prime years. Growing up on the west side, I probably wouldn’t have become a Coug had it not been for Walden.

 

[SaveFerris]

Nine seasons in charge of Cougar Football

• Won nearly 50 percent of his games despite WSU's facility disadvantages at that time
  
• Single-handedly brought WSU-UW games back to Pullman
  
• Three really good seasons from 1981 through 1984, including Holiday Bowl bid in '81
• Beginning in '82, won 3 of 4 Apple Cups going head-to-head against UW's Hall of Fame coach
• Elevated WSU to a National Brand by developing Jack Thompson, Reuben Mayes, Mark Rypien, Paul Sorensen and others
  
• Folksy personality made the Cougars a media darling

Post-WSU coaching career

• Several underlings from his days in Pullman went on to have success on the WSU staff
• Handled color commentary and the Cougar Radio Network; very popular with the "Blue Hair" crowd even to this day (some want him back on radio broadcasts)
  
• Donated his own $$$ to WSU athletic and academic programs!!!

How do Cougar Fans view Jim Walden's legacy at WSU?

Important. Wasn't he an instrumental part of getting the stadium built and therefore requiring SC, UCLA, and FUW to travel to Pullman? He brought stability when Powers and Sherrill used WSU as a truck stop on their way to other jobs. It was time for him to leave when he did, I wasn't a big fan of his on the radio, or the negative comments toward WSU. He was definitely important though.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Walden deserves criticism for his ranting over The Turd's firing, but I'm not going to categorically dismiss him. He has done some good things for WSU. Yes, it was easier to get academically marginal student athletes into school back then, but he managed to beat the UW three out of four years during its great run in the early 1980s. And he played a major role in getting "home" games back to Pullman. And he was often very funny. It's just too bad he let Wulff get in the way of all that.

Very sensible and insightful comment....I suspect some of his biggest critics were too young to experience those great AC victories and the stability he provided after 3 coaches in 3 years. In today's world of college football, his teams would probably get to 3 bowls....not bad considering the limitations at the time. When I was a young reporter in Portland, I had the chance to sit down one-on-one with Walden. He couldn't have been more gracious, engaged, and a great interview. Walden became too bitter over the Wulff stuff, which is a shame....but I'll never consider him a bad guy and, in fact, I think his intentions have always been pro-Cougar.

Glad Cougar

 

[Loyal Coug]

Very sensible and insightful comment....I suspect some of his biggest critics were too young to experience those great AC victories and the stability he provided after 3 coaches in 3 years. In today's world of college football, his teams would probably get to 3 bowls....not bad considering the limitations at the time. When I was a young reporter in Portland, I had the chance to sit down one-on-one with Walden. He couldn't have been more gracious, engaged, and a great interview. Walden became too bitter over the Wulff stuff, which is a shame....but I'll never consider him a bad guy and, in fact, I think his intentions have always been pro-Cougar.

Glad Cougar

I will parrot this post. With Walden, I always felt like we had a chance to win in every game. My best memories (in person) were of course the '82 Apple Cup, the '84 Apple Cup ( we lost but were in it right until the end), and '86 USC game, when our overmatched Cougs beat the crap out of Rodney Peete and USC 34-14. That wa a great game, and we have never beat USC that bad before or since. In today's bowl-saturated world he would have gone in '83 and '84 as well as '81.

I'll give him a pass for the Wulff thing - he was just sticking up for one of his guys. Not the worst attribute in the world.

Walden made WSU Football relevant. he deserves kudos for that.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It's too bad that Walden decided to go ball's deep on his support for Wulff and poisoned the well for the current crop of fans. For all of the angst and worry about Leach leaving and how bad WSU was before Leach arrived, Walden accomplished a lot of good things for WSU in his time at the school. He proved that WSU could go toe to toe with the big boys (at times) and if he had the current facilities, I'd expect that he would have had even more success than he did.

Unfortunately, his irrational attitude towards Leach and blind support of Wulff has made him a laughingstock to many current fans. He's that delusional grandpa who still thinks we are fighting the japs in WWII. Now, just give him his meds and ask him to avoid talking to people.

 

[FnuLnu]

The reason ALL the games are back in Pullman and not Spokane is solely due to the academic calendar switch in 1984 and not Jim Walden. Prior to 1984, Fall Semester started in late September (like it does at UW) which led to the first 4 games of the season occurring while the students were out of Pullman. The September start also had the infamous "lame duck session" for Fall Semester in January which made Christmas break much less enjoyable. This change in the academic calendar should have happened up to two decades earlier - the "harvest" excuse was always weak. (And keeping spring semester in session until June on the old calendar always made getting summer jobs for students difficult)

If academic calendar switch had happened a decade or two sooner, it wouldn't taken until 1969 for an arsonist to finish off Rogers Field or 1981 to expand Martin Stadium. (Why invest in a stadium if half the "home" games are happening while the students are out of town?

There were 2 more Spokane games in 1983 the year after the Apple Cup came back to Pullman.

There were ZERO Spokane football games once the new academic calendar started in 1984.

 

[Cougatron]

I don't like him.

He, in my opinion, is basically a bullshitter wearing a whistle.

He had honestly nowhere really to go after Iowa State and we stupidly let him hang around.

Here's the types of "legacy coaches" that still hang around programs.

The Tom Osborne's - Highly successful, loved by fans, quietly works in the background trying to help the program he loves.
Barry Alvarez's - Highly successful, loved by fans, works directly hands on to make the program successful.
Philip Fulmer - Highly successful, loved by fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.
Jim Walden - Not successful, bullshits to fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.

There were 4 distinct moments when WSU football turned around.

Hiring of Bill Moos
Firing of Paul Wulff
Hiring of Mike Leach
Kicking Walden out

It would be a different story if Walden was like the other types, but honestly Walden is Walden, a blowhard who bullshits people and honestly doesn't know what the hell he is talking about regarding building a successful program, because he never actually did that. Not at WSU, not at Iowa State.

His "legacy" honestly will be forgotten in 20 years. Because he honestly didn't accomplish jack shit. The only reason he's around is because there are these suckers who remember him fondly, but aren't smart enough to realize they were sold snake oil all the time. But because he was folksy funny they lose sight that he didn't really accomplish jack shit.,

The best coaches WSU has ever had are Mike Price, Mike Leach, and Ericson in the last few generations.

Walden inserted himself into this because he coached a long time.

In the 9 years that Walden coached he produced.

4 - 3 win seasons.
2 - 4 win seasons

That's Six out of 9 years with 4 wins or less. The guy was a loser, and he gave us the gift of his loser tree with Wulff.

Now to illustrate the change we have now.

Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as his OC...who then coached at Texas Tech who coached Lincoln Riley who is now his successor.

That's a tree of winners.

One of the things I really like now is we have Gesser around. He's a winner. Price was a winner. we need more winners hanging around the program, and less losers.

Good RIddance to Walden.

 

[kayak15]

The reason ALL the games are back in Pullman and not Spokane is solely due to the academic calendar switch in 1984 and not Jim Walden. Prior to 1984, Fall Semester started in late September (like it does at UW) which led to the first 4 games of the season occurring while the students were out of Pullman. The September start also had the infamous "lame duck session" for Fall Semester in January which made Christmas break much less enjoyable. This change in the academic calendar should have happened up to two decades earlier - the "harvest" excuse was always weak. (And keeping spring semester in session until June on the old calendar always made getting summer jobs for students difficult)

If academic calendar switch had happened a decade or two sooner, it wouldn't taken until 1969 for an arsonist to finish off Rogers Field or 1981 to expand Martin Stadium. (Why invest in a stadium if half the "home" games are happening while the students are out of town?

There were 2 more Spokane games in 1983 the year after the Apple Cup came back to Pullman.

There were ZERO Spokane football games once the new academic calendar started in 1984.

A good point and one that I had not considered.

 

[YakiCoug]

Nine seasons in charge of Cougar Football

• Won nearly 50 percent of his games despite WSU's facility disadvantages at that time
  
• Single-handedly brought WSU-UW games back to Pullman
  
• Three really good seasons from 1981 through 1984, including Holiday Bowl bid in '81
• Beginning in '82, won 3 of 4 Apple Cups going head-to-head against UW's Hall of Fame coach
• Elevated WSU to a National Brand by developing Jack Thompson, Reuben Mayes, Mark Rypien, Paul Sorensen and others
  
• Folksy personality made the Cougars a media darling

Post-WSU coaching career

• Several underlings from his days in Pullman went on to have success on the WSU staff
• Handled color commentary and the Cougar Radio Network; very popular with the "Blue Hair" crowd even to this day (some want him back on radio broadcasts)
  
• Donated his own $$$ to WSU athletic and academic programs!!!

How do Cougar Fans view Jim Walden's legacy at WSU?

His record at WSU over all was 44-52-4; his conference record was 28-39-3, but I believe that included two losses in 1979 later categorized as wins due to rules violations by ASU and Oregon. So, we're looking at 42-54-4/26-41-3. That's not even close to 50 percent, but it's far superior to the Wulff era.
I understand Tron's points and his feelings, but Walden's AC wins are held dear because the UW had won eight straight until 1982, and even though WSU lost in '81, the Rose Bowl was on the line. Walden's teams would go on to kick the crap out of UW in '83, win again in '85, and came close to upsetting a 1984 UW team that would go on to win the Orange Bowl. And it's true that those teams in '83 and '84 were deserving of bowl games.
But Walden's personality eventually got the best of him, from his rift with the AD (who was a jerk) and his mistreatment of players (hell week in '85). Nonetheless, there is no denying he recruited the foundation for Dennis Erickson's success in '88 (Rosenbach, Broussard, Utley, Dyko, Stallworth, et al), although it was Erickson's use of that talent that guaranteed winning.

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't like him.

He, in my opinion, is basically a bullshitter wearing a whistle.

As opposed to all of the other upstanding, genuine head coaches in D1 football?

Leach is a great coach, and he’s one of the biggest bullshitters I’ve ever heard.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I started at Wazzu in fall of '76. Sweeney had been canned at the end of the previous season. Sherrill was HC...for a year, then Powers was HC...for a year, then Walden got the job. He was the right guy at the right time. Contrary to some posts above, he definitely was a turning point for the program. He could recruit. He could manage. And he was an effective X's and O's guy. You could certainly argue that Sweeney had set the table with steady talent upgrades, but the lost recruiting years due to the coaching turnstiles had peed much of that away by the time that Walden took over. When Walden left, Dennis Ericson took over a program that had people that could play.

I never heard a good reason for his ISU move. Had to have been more backstory than I was privy to.

In his latter radio years he managed to alienate a lot of folks, and it was not hard to understand why. But those with perspective view that time differently than his time as assistant and HC.

So, Pete, that is how I view Walden's time and contribution to the school. A complex personality, indeed, and I suspect that his grasp of reality was getting a bit more loose by the end of his broadcasting stint, which should probably have happened a few years earlier. But his contributions to WSU football were significant. It would take serious revisionist history to view it any other way.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't like him.

He, in my opinion, is basically a bullshitter wearing a whistle.

He had honestly nowhere really to go after Iowa State and we stupidly let him hang around.

Here's the types of "legacy coaches" that still hang around programs.

The Tom Osborne's - Highly successful, loved by fans, quietly works in the background trying to help the program he loves.
Barry Alvarez's - Highly successful, loved by fans, works directly hands on to make the program successful.
Philip Fulmer - Highly successful, loved by fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.
Jim Walden - Not successful, bullshits to fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.

There were 4 distinct moments when WSU football turned around.

Hiring of Bill Moos
Firing of Paul Wulff
Hiring of Mike Leach
Kicking Walden out

It would be a different story if Walden was like the other types, but honestly Walden is Walden, a blowhard who bullshits people and honestly doesn't know what the hell he is talking about regarding building a successful program, because he never actually did that. Not at WSU, not at Iowa State.

His "legacy" honestly will be forgotten in 20 years. Because he honestly didn't accomplish jack shit. The only reason he's around is because there are these suckers who remember him fondly, but aren't smart enough to realize they were sold snake oil all the time. But because he was folksy funny they lose sight that he didn't really accomplish jack shit.,

The best coaches WSU has ever had are Mike Price, Mike Leach, and Ericson in the last few generations.

Walden inserted himself into this because he coached a long time.

In the 9 years that Walden coached he produced.

4 - 3 win seasons.
2 - 4 win seasons

That's Six out of 9 years with 4 wins or less. The guy was a loser, and he gave us the gift of his loser tree with Wulff.

Now to illustrate the change we have now.

Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as his OC...who then coached at Texas Tech who coached Lincoln Riley who is now his successor.

That's a tree of winners.

One of the things I really like now is we have Gesser around. He's a winner. Price was a winner. we need more winners hanging around the program, and less losers.

Good RIddance to Walden.

While I agree that it was Walden's time to go, saying that Walden didn't do anything for WSU is just as ignorant as saying that Leach should be fired right now because of the AC's and the last two bowl games.

 

[Observer11]

I started at Wazzu in fall of '76. Sweeney had been canned at the end of the previous season. Sherrill was HC...for a year, then Powers was HC...for a year, then Walden got the job. He was the right guy at the right time. Contrary to some posts above, he definitely was a turning point for the program. He could recruit. He could manage. And he was an effective X's and O's guy. You could certainly argue that Sweeney had set the table with steady talent upgrades, but the lost recruiting years due to the coaching turnstiles had peed much of that away by the time that Walden took over. When Walden left, Dennis Ericson took over a program that had people that could play.

I never heard a good reason for his ISU move. Had to have been more backstory than I was privy to.

In his latter radio years he managed to alienate a lot of folks, and it was not hard to understand why. But those with perspective view that time differently than his time as assistant and HC.

So, Pete, that is how I view Walden's time and contribution to the school. A complex personality, indeed, and I suspect that his grasp of reality was getting a bit more loose by the end of his broadcasting stint, which should probably have happened a few years earlier. But his contributions to WSU football were significant. It would take serious revisionist history to view it any other way.

Well said. Very well said.

 

[kougkurt]

Walden created the RPM’s He will always have a soft spot in my heart for that.

 

[moxeecoug]

Jim Walden did all those things and more. I remember when I was a senior in high school that he came and talked to us at our end of the year football banquet and he was such an inspiration that had I been good to play for him, I would have committed to WSU. Walden made WSU football relevant again and did a lot of firsts. The first bowl game in over 30 years, making other teams such as UW and USC play in Pullman and the first USC played in Pullman beating them for the first time in 30 years. We should have gone to two more bowl games under him and forget which coach said but a UCLA or USC coach stated WSU was the best team in the PAC 10 at the end of the year. I know a lot of people dont like him but he made WSU football relevant and equal with other programs instead of an ugly stepchild.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I don't like him.

He, in my opinion, is basically a bullshitter wearing a whistle.

He had honestly nowhere really to go after Iowa State and we stupidly let him hang around.

Here's the types of "legacy coaches" that still hang around programs.

The Tom Osborne's - Highly successful, loved by fans, quietly works in the background trying to help the program he loves.
Barry Alvarez's - Highly successful, loved by fans, works directly hands on to make the program successful.
Philip Fulmer - Highly successful, loved by fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.
Jim Walden - Not successful, bullshits to fans, meddles in everything all the time because he wants attention.

There were 4 distinct moments when WSU football turned around.

Hiring of Bill Moos
Firing of Paul Wulff
Hiring of Mike Leach
Kicking Walden out

It would be a different story if Walden was like the other types, but honestly Walden is Walden, a blowhard who bullshits people and honestly doesn't know what the hell he is talking about regarding building a successful program, because he never actually did that. Not at WSU, not at Iowa State.

His "legacy" honestly will be forgotten in 20 years. Because he honestly didn't accomplish jack shit. The only reason he's around is because there are these suckers who remember him fondly, but aren't smart enough to realize they were sold snake oil all the time. But because he was folksy funny they lose sight that he didn't really accomplish jack shit.,

The best coaches WSU has ever had are Mike Price, Mike Leach, and Ericson in the last few generations.

Walden inserted himself into this because he coached a long time.

In the 9 years that Walden coached he produced.

4 - 3 win seasons.
2 - 4 win seasons

That's Six out of 9 years with 4 wins or less. The guy was a loser, and he gave us the gift of his loser tree with Wulff.

Now to illustrate the change we have now.

Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as his OC...who then coached at Texas Tech who coached Lincoln Riley who is now his successor.

That's a tree of winners.

One of the things I really like now is we have Gesser around. He's a winner. Price was a winner. we need more winners hanging around the program, and less losers.

Good RIddance to Walden.

Well, Cougatron, for starters you are wrong about Walden's 3 win seasons (2 not 4, perhaps you were thinking of Price). So your facts are wrong, and thus your post has no value. You joined this site in 2012, so I assume you are a young punk.

Walden's legacy has already been around for 30 years, longer than you have been alive it would seem from your fact-void, 201X's based post.

 

[Cougatron]

Well, Cougatron, for starters you are wrong about Walden's 3 win seasons (2 not 4, perhaps you were thinking of Price). So your facts are wrong, and thus your post has no value. You joined this site in 2012, so I assume you are a young punk.

Walden's legacy has already been around for 30 years, longer than you have been alive it would seem from your fact-void, 201X's based post.

Well Loyal Coug. for starters. YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR OWN TEAM'S F*CKING HISTORY

GO READ it here you dumb ass.

Here's a nice screenshot with it highlighted so you can actually see it yourself.

JIM WALDEN had 3 winning seasons out of 9.

He took over for a six win team.

That's facts. He more of a loser than he was a winner at wsu, and that's the honest truth.

And this is exactly the problem with people "reminiscing" instead of actually looking at the cold hard truth.

Only IDIOTS would think that a guy who had a losing season 2/3rd of the time over a 9 year career is someone you should listen to about ANYTHING related to football.

IDIOTS did and you got Paul Wulff, and idiots dragged this problem to 9-40 and I am not letting that happen again.

F*ck the Waldenites. Go shovel cow sh*t in Iowa State for his legacy because that was a bullshit tenure too.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Well Loyal Coug. for starters. YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR OWN TEAM'S F*CKING HISTORY

GO READ it here you dumb ass.

Here's a nice screenshot with it highlighted so you can actually see it yourself.

JIM WALDEN had 3 winning seasons out of 9.

He took over for a six win team.

That's facts. He more of a loser than he was a winner at wsu, and that's the honest truth.

And this is exactly the problem with people "reminiscing" instead of actually looking at the cold hard truth.

Only IDIOTS would think that a guy who had a losing season 2/3rd of the time over a 9 year career is someone you should listen to about ANYTHING related to football.

IDIOTS did and you got Paul Wulff, and idiots dragged this problem to 9-40 and I am not letting that happen again.

F*ck the Waldenites. Go shovel cow sh*t in Iowa State for his legacy because that was a bullshit tenure too.

I go with the season records AFTER they were adjusted for the cheating Oregon and ASU schools. But I'll give you that one.

Doesn't change the fact that you are a young punk. Were you alive when Walden was coach? Were you there in 1981 when we broke our 50 year bowl game drought? in 1982? 1983? 1984? If not, then you have nothing to say in this thread.

 

[dgibbons]

I go with the season records AFTER they were adjusted for the cheating Oregon and ASU schools. But I'll give you that one.

Doesn't change the fact that you are a young punk. Were you alive when Walden was coach? Were you there in 1981 when we broke our 50 year bowl game drought? in 1982? 1983? 1984? If not, then you have nothing to say in this thread.

Does that make you a grumpy old man?

 

[Coug1990]

I go with the season records AFTER they were adjusted for the cheating Oregon and ASU schools. But I'll give you that one.

Doesn't change the fact that you are a young punk. Were you alive when Walden was coach? Were you there in 1981 when we broke our 50 year bowl game drought? in 1982? 1983? 1984? If not, then you have nothing to say in this thread.

This way of thinking is completely wrong. What difference does it make if he were alive or not? He can study history. I agree with you that he came on too strong. But, none of us need to be alive to have had opinions regarding those who came before us.

I was in school when Walden was there and I thought he was an idiot. Heck, when I was in school, WSU had three coaches in four years. Not quite the four in four, but close.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Only IDIOTS would think that a guy who had a losing season 2/3rd of the time over a 9 year career is someone you should listen to about ANYTHING related to football.

IDIOTS did and you got Paul Wulff, and idiots dragged this problem to 9-40 and I am not letting that happen again.

F*ck the Waldenites. Go shovel cow sh*t in Iowa State for his legacy because that was a bullshit tenure too.

What does that say about Dick Bennett who never had a winning record as WSU basketball coach? Should anyone listen to anything he says about basketball?

You know, I don't have a problem with the way you feel about Walden. You probably shouldn't care so much about those of us who actually were in school during the Walden years or saw what he did against the mighty UW in the early 80s...and the fact that we actually give some credit to the guy. If Leach (who admittedly is a much better coach overall than Walden ever was) could ever fire up and prepare the team for the Apple Cup the way Walden did, we would all be very happy Cougar fans.

Name calling those who credit Walden for some good things he did seems petty and childish.

Glad Cougar

 

[Coug1990]

People seem to love Walden because he took WSU to a bowl game after 50 years and he beat the uw. If bowls were opened up back then, Jim Sweeney would have taken the Cougars to a bowl game in 1972 with a 7-4 record. Warren Powers also went 7-4 in his only year in Pullman in 1977. Walden had great timing in that the Pac 8 began to let other teams beyond the conference champion go to a bowl.

I thank Walden for staying more than a year, I guess. Let's all celebrate with juice boxes and orange slices.

 

[Coug1990]

What does that say about Dick Bennett who never had a winning record as WSU basketball coach? Should anyone listen to anything he says about basketball?

You know, I don't have a problem with the way you feel about Walden. You probably shouldn't care so much about those of us who actually were in school during the Walden years or saw what he did against the mighty UW in the early 80s...and the fact that we actually give some credit to the guy. If Leach (who admittedly is a much better coach overall than Walden ever was) could ever fire up and prepare the team for the Apple Cup the way Walden did, we would all be very happy Cougar fans.

Name calling those who credit Walden for some good things he did seems petty and childish.

Glad Cougar

Dick Bennett also had a long track record of success as a head coach before he came to WSU. I agree with you about the name calling. But, for many of us, we want WSU to beat the uw. But, beating the uw does not make the season successful. Too many fans still hang their hat on Walden beating some overrated uw teams as a measure of success for the program.

 

[Cougatron]

What does that say about Dick Bennett who never had a winning record as WSU basketball coach? Should anyone listen to anything he says about basketball?

You know, I don't have a problem with the way you feel about Walden. You probably shouldn't care so much about those of us who actually were in school during the Walden years or saw what he did against the mighty UW in the early 80s...and the fact that we actually give some credit to the guy. If Leach (who admittedly is a much better coach overall than Walden ever was) could ever fire up and prepare the team for the Apple Cup the way Walden did, we would all be very happy Cougar fans.

Name calling those who credit Walden for some good things he did seems petty and childish.

Glad Cougar

That's kind of interesting because calling people idiots is EXACTLY what Walden did when people said Wulff needed to be fired. Let me remind you.

I give Walden ZERO credit. ZERO.

And this whole "GREAT APPLE CUP" coach... let's review shall we.

Jim Walden started coaching for WSU in 1978

Apple Cup history.

1978 - LOSS 38-8 (WOW way to fire them up)
1979 - LOSS 17-7 (Still a loss)
1980 - LOSS 30-23 (Still a loss)
1981 - LOSS 23-10 (LOSS)
1982 - WIN 24-20 (Congrats oh Walden oh great Apple Cup winner you are 1-4 in Apple Cups)
1983 - WIN 17-6 (WOW we are on a roll now. 2-4)
1984 - Loss - 38-29 (Back to losing)
1985 - WIN - 21-20 (WOW amazing 3-5 in Apple cups now)
1986 - Loss - 44-23 (Back to losing 3-6 final record)

So in 9 years Jim Walden won 3 apple cups.

3. Not 5 out of 9, not 6 out of 9 or 7...... 3.

And that's the problem. If you went to school at WSU from 1982-1985 you won 3 out of 4 Apple Cups which may look impressive, but NOT when you put it in the overall context.

In the 3 years that Walden won the Apple Cup here's the record for his teams those years.

1982 - 3-7-1 .... And surprise... the Apple Cup meant something because THAT'S ALL HE ACCOMPLISHED
1983 - 7-4 By far one of his best seasons in 9 years. A 7-4 season and win in the Apple Cup. This is the highlight magic season.
1985 - 4-7 ..... And back to winning the Apple Cup being the only silver lining to an otherwise crappy season.

So of the 3 Apple Cup wins Walden "got guys fired up to win" only 1 was in an actual winning season. Only 1.

But of course the greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Walden he was sooooo incredible at "firing up the guys"

especially in 1980 when he lost to Pacific 24-22.

You know Pacific Right? Oh wait...no you don't because they quit football in 1995.


The GREAT Walden...

where 6 out of 9 years are losing seasons but you are considered some "great coach"
where 3 out of 9 Apple Cups but you are considered some "great Apple Cup motivator"


6 out of 9 Losing Seasons
6 out of 9 Losing Apple Cups.

HE WAS A FAILURE.

But the 1 thing I will give Walden credit for (not in coaching obviously)

He was very good at bullshitting people and making them believe his bullshit.

Like when he pretend cried when he left blubbering like the bullshitter b*tch he was when left WSU.

Jim Walden is and always had been an emotional snake oil salesman.

When he was run out of Iowa State... (guess how many winning seasons he had?...ONE)

We were stupid and let him worm his way back into Pullman and then had the stupidity to let him tell or influence ANYTHING related to the program.

Our scar is 9-40 Paul Wulff era.

Jim Walden coached for 17 years as a head coach.

13 of his 17 years were losing seasons.
His final season at Iowa State was 0-10-1

He never should have been allowed near our program or ANY program ever again.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

That's kind of interesting because calling people idiots is EXACTLY what Walden did when people said Wulff needed to be fired. Let me remind you.

I give Walden ZERO credit. ZERO.

And this whole "GREAT APPLE CUP" coach... let's review shall we.

Jim Walden started coaching for WSU in 1978

Apple Cup history.

1978 - LOSS 38-8 (WOW way to fire them up)
1979 - LOSS 17-7 (Still a loss)
1980 - LOSS 30-23 (Still a loss)
1981 - LOSS 23-10 (LOSS)
1982 - WIN 24-20 (Congrats oh Walden oh great Apple Cup winner you are 1-4 in Apple Cups)
1983 - WIN 17-6 (WOW we are on a roll now. 2-4)
1984 - Loss - 38-29 (Back to losing)
1985 - WIN - 21-20 (WOW amazing 3-5 in Apple cups now)
1986 - Loss - 44-23 (Back to losing 3-6 final record)

So in 9 years Jim Walden won 3 apple cups.

3. Not 5 out of 9, not 6 out of 9 or 7...... 3.

And that's the problem. If you went to school at WSU from 1982-1985 you won 3 out of 4 Apple Cups which may look impressive, but NOT when you put it in the overall context.

In the 3 years that Walden won the Apple Cup here's the record for his teams those years.

1982 - 3-7-1 .... And surprise... the Apple Cup meant something because THAT'S ALL HE ACCOMPLISHED
1983 - 7-4 By far one of his best seasons in 9 years. A 7-4 season and win in the Apple Cup. This is the highlight magic season.
1985 - 4-7 ..... And back to winning the Apple Cup being the only silver lining to an otherwise crappy season.

So of the 3 Apple Cup wins Walden "got guys fired up to win" only 1 was in an actual winning season. Only 1.

But of course the greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Walden he was sooooo incredible at "firing up the guys"

especially in 1980 when he lost to Pacific 24-22.

You know Pacific Right? Oh wait...no you don't because they quit football in 1995.


The GREAT Walden...

where 6 out of 9 years are losing seasons but you are considered some "great coach"
where 3 out of 9 Apple Cups but you are considered some "great Apple Cup motivator"


6 out of 9 Losing Seasons
6 out of 9 Losing Apple Cups.

HE WAS A FAILURE.

But the 1 thing I will give Walden credit for (not in coaching obviously)

He was very good at bullshitting people and making them believe his bullshit.

Like when he pretend cried when he left blubbering like the bullshitter b*tch he was when left WSU.

Jim Walden is and always had been an emotional snake oil salesman.

When he was run out of Iowa State... (guess how many winning seasons he had?...ONE)

We were stupid and let him worm his way back into Pullman and then had the stupidity to let him tell or influence ANYTHING related to the program.

Our scar is 9-40 Paul Wulff era.

Jim Walden coached for 17 years as a head coach.

13 of his 17 years were losing seasons.
His final season at Iowa State was 0-10-1

He never should have been allowed near our program or ANY program ever again.

Damn Tron.....you have a serious hard-on for Walden. You seriously have no perspective on that time and you are abusing statistics to make a point. Walden led WSU to bowl eligible records in 3 out of 4 seasons from 1981 to 1984. He beat the mutts 3 out of 4 years at the same time. For those two statements alone, Walden deserves some credit.

Before you go pronouncing Leach as the greatest coach of all time and disparaging Walden, feel free to note that WSU lost by 25+ points in our games against our two best opponents, lost by 34 points to a team with a losing record, and gave up 9 more points in our loss to Arizona than any other Pac-12 team scored in 2017. If not for getting USC on a short week and Leach's mastery over Shaw, this season might have been a resounding thud.

WSU went 6-0 against teams with losing records in 2016, 1-0 against Idaho and 1-4 against good teams plus had an FCS loss. Don't forget the AC ass-kicking.

In 2015, we faced a schedule filled with mediocre teams. Only one team lost less than 4 games. WSU went 4-3 against teams with winning records and lost to the only truly good team we played (although it was close). Another AC ass-whipping.

In 2014, we went 3-9 and if not for a miraculous win against Utah, would have posted one of the worst seasons in school history (and it was still in the bottom 10 in terms of win percentage.

It's easy to take win totals and stats and make a bunch of statements about a coach that don't necessarily reflect how things really stand. Leach is a better coach than I tried to make him sound. My statements are taking the worst possible view and twisting them and we should be happy to be 9-4 this year. Same goes for Walden, if you take off your hate tinged glasses, the man did a tremendous amount of good for WSU even though there were some down moments. He overstayed his welcome both as a coach and as a broadcaster. That doesn't mean that WSU wasn't better off for his involvement.

 

[Observer11]

This thread is simply pathetic.

 

[Glad Cougar]

That's kind of interesting because calling people idiots is EXACTLY what Walden did when people said Wulff needed to be fired. Let me remind you.

I give Walden ZERO credit. ZERO.

And this whole "GREAT APPLE CUP" coach... let's review shall we.

Jim Walden started coaching for WSU in 1978

Apple Cup history.

1978 - LOSS 38-8 (WOW way to fire them up)
1979 - LOSS 17-7 (Still a loss)
1980 - LOSS 30-23 (Still a loss)
1981 - LOSS 23-10 (LOSS)
1982 - WIN 24-20 (Congrats oh Walden oh great Apple Cup winner you are 1-4 in Apple Cups)
1983 - WIN 17-6 (WOW we are on a roll now. 2-4)
1984 - Loss - 38-29 (Back to losing)
1985 - WIN - 21-20 (WOW amazing 3-5 in Apple cups now)
1986 - Loss - 44-23 (Back to losing 3-6 final record)

So in 9 years Jim Walden won 3 apple cups.

3. Not 5 out of 9, not 6 out of 9 or 7...... 3.

And that's the problem. If you went to school at WSU from 1982-1985 you won 3 out of 4 Apple Cups which may look impressive, but NOT when you put it in the overall context.

In the 3 years that Walden won the Apple Cup here's the record for his teams those years.

1982 - 3-7-1 .... And surprise... the Apple Cup meant something because THAT'S ALL HE ACCOMPLISHED
1983 - 7-4 By far one of his best seasons in 9 years. A 7-4 season and win in the Apple Cup. This is the highlight magic season.
1985 - 4-7 ..... And back to winning the Apple Cup being the only silver lining to an otherwise crappy season.

So of the 3 Apple Cup wins Walden "got guys fired up to win" only 1 was in an actual winning season. Only 1.

But of course the greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Walden he was sooooo incredible at "firing up the guys"

especially in 1980 when he lost to Pacific 24-22.

You know Pacific Right? Oh wait...no you don't because they quit football in 1995.


The GREAT Walden...

where 6 out of 9 years are losing seasons but you are considered some "great coach"
where 3 out of 9 Apple Cups but you are considered some "great Apple Cup motivator"


6 out of 9 Losing Seasons
6 out of 9 Losing Apple Cups.

HE WAS A FAILURE.

But the 1 thing I will give Walden credit for (not in coaching obviously)

He was very good at bullshitting people and making them believe his bullshit.

Like when he pretend cried when he left blubbering like the bullshitter b*tch he was when left WSU.

Jim Walden is and always had been an emotional snake oil salesman.

When he was run out of Iowa State... (guess how many winning seasons he had?...ONE)

We were stupid and let him worm his way back into Pullman and then had the stupidity to let him tell or influence ANYTHING related to the program.

Our scar is 9-40 Paul Wulff era.

Jim Walden coached for 17 years as a head coach.

13 of his 17 years were losing seasons.
His final season at Iowa State was 0-10-1

He never should have been allowed near our program or ANY program ever again.

You can keep your opinion and I'll be okay with it.....I'll keep my opinion and you can remain angry. The only thing I"ll add is that nearly all the Apple Cup losses under Walden you cite were at least competitive games. I saw them all and the team played a hell of a lot harder and were much more prepared against the Huskies than in the AC losses Leach has presided over. Doesn't make Walden a better coach than Leach, but it is a fact.

Glad Cougar

 

[Loyal Coug]

This thread is simply pathetic.

Heh - I agree. I'm done with this one.

That said, Pete's original post summed up how most of us feel about Walden and his tenure. As Don James said - he was always a 1,000 word underdog to 'ol Jim.

 

[Coug95man2]

I'm alright with this thread. I shows the disparity between perspectives. Walden was/is polarizing. Always was, always will be.

I view Walden as 2 people, really.

As a coach, there is not doubt he helped WSU stabilize. How much he had a hand in getting all of our games back to Pullman can truly be debated. While the schedule change certainly helped, it's also been common knowledge he helped, in some form. If he had a modicum amount of influence in that, he deserves kudos. His coaching leaned heavily on emotion. He knew how to rev up a team.

But after coaching, during his media days, it became a slow downward spiral. I was just fine with the "coach" perspective in the radio booth. But after several years, his "hillbilly" laugh and comments only cemented WSU's bad stereotype of being a hick school, kind of thing. The character became cringe worth, to me. He became more abrasive, said dumber and dumber things and in media, that's bad. As a coach, you can get away with some of that stuff. If your "media" you don't have the same length of leash. Then when CPW was fired, he just dug his heels in on something he should have been respectfully quiet about. Or state his opinion and be proud of your stance but his just yelled and screamed and talked to anyone and everyone about his views. The media ate it up. Media kept asking for interviews and he kept saying yes to them so he could continue. While many say that was Walden being Walden, he should have said "no" to many, many of those interviews. He was on record about his stance. Lets leave it at that. But he didn't. So now his legacy is tainted, strongly.

So as a coach, I was OK with him. He wasn't "lights out" but I acknowledge what he did. Stability. Wasn't outstanding, wasn't piss poor. Just a solid coach that relied on emotion.

Post coaching, I view as a slow decline that ultimately made me either angry or a little embarrassed for him and our school.

I don't know that there will be a over arching legacy for him, though. He was polarizing. So some view him in a good light, some don't. But there aren't too many in-between. Legacies are built around reputations being "in-between" or better. I guess his legacy is he was/is polarizing? Not the best legacy, IMHO.

 

[Cougatron]

Jim Walden was a snake oil salesman plain and simple.

His last year at WSU... another 3 win season
His last year at Iowa state... winless

And fools let him back into Pullman and let him run his mouth and the program back into the ground.

I don’t care about Leach vs Walden that’s an obvious mismatch with Leach winning that easily.

What I care about is throwing out the GARBAGE like Walden and his ilk who did nothing but hold WSU’s growth and potential back so they could circle jerk themselves and “feelin’ all golly gee shucks we’ll having a winning program next year.”


The archive is gone but Walden talked a lot of trash about Mike Price while stumping for Wulff

But you can see the documentation...
https://www.google.com/amp/thesport...walden-loves-paul-wulff-hates-mike-price/amp/

Jim Walden should be run out of the state out of Idaho out of anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

Why isn’t he hanging around Iowa State? Because they have enough common sense to tell that 0-10 loser to get lost.

I suggest our fan base wake up too.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Jim Walden was a snake oil salesman plain and simple ... Jim Walden should be run out of the state out of Idaho out of anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

Why isn’t he hanging around Iowa State? Because they have enough common sense to tell that 0-10 loser to get lost. I suggest our fan base wake up too.

Cougatron,

Not to be disagreeable, but I can say without reservations that there are a good many WSU supporters I know — and many posters here may be aware of others— who remain very fond of Coach Jim Walden to this very day.

These folks (yes, well past retirement age) are season ticket holders and financial contributors to Cougar Athletics. They've been through the good, the bad and everything in between. They love Washington State University with all their hearts.

And they no would more desire seeing Jim Walden excommunicated from Cougar Nation than you'd want Paul Wulff on the WSU sideline in November trying to end Mike Leach's five-game losing streak in the Apple Cup.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Jim Walden was a snake oil salesman plain and simple.

His last year at WSU... another 3 win season
His last year at Iowa state... winless

And fools let him back into Pullman and let him run his mouth and the program back into the ground.

I don’t care about Leach vs Walden that’s an obvious mismatch with Leach winning that easily.

What I care about is throwing out the GARBAGE like Walden and his ilk who did nothing but hold WSU’s growth and potential back so they could circle jerk themselves and “feelin’ all golly gee shucks we’ll having a winning program next year.”


The archive is gone but Walden talked a lot of trash about Mike Price while stumping for Wulff

But you can see the documentation...
https://www.google.com/amp/thesport...walden-loves-paul-wulff-hates-mike-price/amp/

Jim Walden should be run out of the state out of Idaho out of anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

Why isn’t he hanging around Iowa State? Because they have enough common sense to tell that 0-10 loser to get lost.

I suggest our fan base wake up too.

Is Jim Walden still hanging around these days? I don't know that anyone wants him around as a visible representative of WSU. I respect the time that he put in at WSU but that time is done. I know that you live in a world where you either deify or crucify someone, but there's a lot of us that realize that there are shades of grey and Walden definitely falls into that category.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I try very hard not to be a hater. I can only think of a handful of people that, with a little effort, I am unable to like.

If we had asked the original thread question in 1988, Walden would have been thought of pretty highly by most of what at that time was the Coug nation. Sure, there would have been a few exceptions, but nobody is liked by everybody.

The only reason this is even a question is that Jim's last few years in the broadcast booth seemed to me to bring some "grasp of reality" questions. I've lost a father in law to Alzheimers and an aunt to a different form of dementia. I have no inside knowledge into Jim's situation; maybe he simply changed dramatically over a relatively short time by choice. But I doubt it. Perhaps I'm just not capable of beating on an old guy who seems to be losing some of his moorings. And I'm certainly not capable of the vile spewings (like that term? I happened upon it yesterday and this thread came to mind) that some seem to think are appropriate.

I have trouble from time to time in keeping up the pretense that I have at least a little bit of class. I guess this thread proves that I am not alone.

 

[Dusty.Hooper]

Walden turned many off by his criticism in the way we fired Wulff and hired Leach. I was too, but still like the guy, and still listen to his coaches show Thursdays during FB season on KRKO Everett. Maybe I am just hungry for Coug news on the west side, but think Walden does ok on the show. Btw, I'm a Leach supporter too...

It is apples and oranges trying to only use pure stats and records to compare coaches. About 1992, NCAA reduced the limit of FB scholarships from 95 to 85, thus leveling the playing field and helping smaller schools such as WSU and giving us a fighting chance.

And, WSU's schedule, like many have softened, examples:
1980 @ U of Tenn
1982 @ U of Tenn and Minn
1983 @ Michigan
1984 @ Tenn and @ Ohio St
1985 @ Ohio St
These body bag games for the $$ also resulted in more beat up teams physically, mentally, as well as schedules. How many of these type teams has Leach teams traveled to?

And bullshitting is what coaches do, especially Leach. Even Sweeney had everyone convinced each year that this was the year we would go to the Rose Bowl!

 

[Fab5Coug]

I think Walden gives older fans the warm fuzzies cause he won a few ACs. Sure seems like the general opinion on him has improved a bit since he was fired. Maybe part of that is time, but maybe part of it is our abysmal performance in ACs. Similarly, I got into an argument with a couple friends who, otherwise, are relatively informed Cougar fans about which was the better Cougar QB, Gesser or Alex Brink. It's amazing the weight that single game can carry over some of our fans.

 

[CougEd]

I'm alright with this thread. I shows the disparity between perspectives. Walden was/is polarizing. Always was, always will be.

I view Walden as 2 people, really.

As a coach, there is not doubt he helped WSU stabilize. How much he had a hand in getting all of our games back to Pullman can truly be debated. While the schedule change certainly helped, it's also been common knowledge he helped, in some form. If he had a modicum amount of influence in that, he deserves kudos. His coaching leaned heavily on emotion. He knew how to rev up a team.

But after coaching, during his media days, it became a slow downward spiral. I was just fine with the "coach" perspective in the radio booth. But after several years, his "hillbilly" laugh and comments only cemented WSU's bad stereotype of being a hick school, kind of thing. The character became cringe worth, to me. He became more abrasive, said dumber and dumber things and in media, that's bad. As a coach, you can get away with some of that stuff. If your "media" you don't have the same length of leash. Then when CPW was fired, he just dug his heels in on something he should have been respectfully quiet about. Or state his opinion and be proud of your stance but his just yelled and screamed and talked to anyone and everyone about his views. The media ate it up. Media kept asking for interviews and he kept saying yes to them so he could continue. While many say that was Walden being Walden, he should have said "no" to many, many of those interviews. He was on record about his stance. Lets leave it at that. But he didn't. So now his legacy is tainted, strongly.

So as a coach, I was OK with him. He wasn't "lights out" but I acknowledge what he did. Stability. Wasn't outstanding, wasn't piss poor. Just a solid coach that relied on emotion.

Post coaching, I view as a slow decline that ultimately made me either angry or a little embarrassed for him and our school.

I don't know that there will be a over arching legacy for him, though. He was polarizing. So some view him in a good light, some don't. But there aren't too many in-between. Legacies are built around reputations being "in-between" or better. I guess his legacy is he was/is polarizing? Not the best legacy, IMHO.

95....IMHO you can't dissect Walden into two different people or eras. It would be like saying I love it Leach speaks his mind but I hate the fact he keeps going back to the Tech issue and not having it resolved.

With Walden, Tron and others can say he is an idiot and he cant win. Leach rightfully complains he has no indoor practice facility. Could you imagine USC, UCLA, ASU, UW or any other school SHARING their practice field with the intramural department? Can you imagine the condition of the practice field after the team practiced in the rain and then had five intramural football games on it in one eve? Then multiply that by four times a week. So what did Walden have to do? Take them to the indoor/outdoor carpet of Martin Stadium. It wasn't like turf now, it was literally carpet. Any idea the toll that takes on knees and ankles? Was there another team that faced that?

The truth of the matter and people don't like to hear it if it wasn't for Walden and his success OSU and WSU would have been booted to the WAC. They brought zip to the table. They had horrible facilities, they were remote, USC, UCLA and their arch rivals hadn't been in Pullman for 30 years. In truth, what do you thing Leach would think of that environment? He would have laughed and said I am going to the University of Houston. Then to cap it off we lost coaches to the WAC conference and Wyoming (and others) because they paid more.

Walden walked in those shoes. He saw what it took to be successful in Pullman without a resume. He knew it took time. He was the reason the big three of the conference HAD to come back to Pullman. So yeah he supported his own.

You know the FOB that Leach talks about? You know what a facility upgrade was back in Walden's day? The AD gave the coaches money to go down to Rima Paint and Hardware to buy paint. And the coaches had to paint their own offices. That was a facilities upgrade.

What made Walden a perfect fit for WSU was his voice. WSU was always not far from a quote. "We got run over by a moped". "Our students learned to turn on the lights" in reference to Don James protesting about a night game in Pullman. We were relevant without even playng.

He stabilized the program. No one (even Oregon) knows what it is like to have four coaches in four years. We can talk about Walden taking over a 7-4 program, but what isn't said is WSU led the country in drafter players that year. Ken Greene, Jack Thompson, Eason ransom (SIC), Don Schwartz. 1978 was 1998. We saw how that worked out for a Rose Bowl coach.

Ask Don James, Terry Donahue and others who were in the conference what they thought of Walden and his work. Yeah, he was very loyal to his players. He was very loyal to Wulff. But Walden put his money where his mouth is. If and when Leach leaves, will he end up giving this school the money Walden has? The fact is Walden loved the school and everything it represented. Yeah he railed against the people of Spokane when he coached . It was deserved. But it wears thin.

Again, the bottom line for me is he saved WSU from being banished to the WAC. He left Erickson some very good talent including a first round draft pick at RB, and a first round draft pick at QB. Miike Utley, Chris Dyko, and a good defensive line. So yeah, that certainly offsets any emotional outburst that may hurt my feelings or other fans.

One other fact, UW, USC and UCLA ran the conference back in the day. UW had the richest radio contract, and probably spent 10 times what WSU did in recruiting. And what UW wanted they got. The 1987 game was never televised live because Lude didn't want the prospect of WSU beating UW three times in a row at Husky.

So yeah he has a positive legacy.