Losing Money at football is ok?

[Flatlandcoug]

Below is a link to an article today in the local media that talks about Wichita State's investigations into bringing back football.

Losing money is ok?

As we talked about before, most college football programs are losing money right now. Wichita State is acknowledging this and has hired a third party to evaluate whether or not losing money on football is worth it if leads to higher enrollment and a higher profile for the university. I'm not sure where things will end up, but it is interesting to see a school saying, "We are ok with losing money on football if the ROI for the rest of the university balances out".

This kind of thinking is a radical departure from the past. In the previous three tries at bringing football back, the discussions ended when they realized that the university could never make money doing it.

 

[CPtheCoug]

Below is a link to an article today in the local media that talks about Wichita State's investigations into bringing back football.

Losing money is ok?

As we talked about before, most college football programs are losing money right now. Wichita State is acknowledging this and has hired a third party to evaluate whether or not losing money on football is worth it if leads to higher enrollment and a higher profile for the university. I'm not sure where things will end up, but it is interesting to see a school saying, "We are ok with losing money on football if the ROI for the rest of the university balances out".

This kind of thinking is a radical departure from the past. In the previous three tries at bringing football back, the discussions ended when they realized that the university could never make money doing it.

Oh for Pete' sake, not this again....

Lower your hand in class dude, with 5 minutes left in the period we all just want to go back to greek row and snag a beer at the Coug...

 

[YakiCoug]

Oh for Pete' sake, not this again....

Lower your hand in class dude, with 5 minutes left in the period we all just want to go back to greek row and snag a beer at the Coug...

As if he didn't have his arse kicked enough the last time. Masochistic tendencies?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

As if he didn't have his arse kicked enough the last time. Masochistic tendencies?

Ass kicked is all about perspective. I was just bringing up the article that says that Wichita State is thinking about football knowing that they will almost assuredly lose money. In the past, we always hear talk about is what a particular university is doing to get back to even keel. This is the first time I remember seeing an article that argues that losing money is ok as long as the university benefits overall.

For WSU, do you think it's ok for us to lose money on paper subsidizing football scholarships if the program is generating good publicity for the university? That's the conversation. I didn't bring up any of the other issues from the other conversation because that is a dead horse.

 

[kayak15]

I guess that it comes down to whether the expenditure equals or exceeds the benefit to the school. A successful athletic program keeps the school's name in the newspapers and thus also in the minds of the alumni and prospective students.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I guess that it comes down to whether the expenditure equals or exceeds the benefit to the school. A successful athletic program keeps the school's name in the newspapers and thus also in the minds of the alumni and prospective students.

That was the point of the article as well. Washington State has received some criticism recently because we've been in the red, but even if we "lose" $3 million on football, it seems like it's pretty easy to sell that as cheap advertising. WSU nets an extra $13,600 tuition for out of state students compared to in-state students. If an extra 500 students apply from out of state and are accepted based on the performance of our football team, the university sees an increase in revenue of up to $6.8 million. It wouldn't surprise me to see research dollars and donations positively affected by athletic success.

10 years ago, if I did a google search for WSU basketball, I would get results that usually featured Washington State. In the last few years, it's been Wichita State. The internet often directs people to areas that it considers popular. In many ways, I could see a school making a reasonable argument to not worry about income. Of course, it's important to remember that most of our financial losses are tuition waivers that hypothetically mean lost revenue but don't really equate to any dollars spent.

 

[CougEd]

I guess that it comes down to whether the expenditure equals or exceeds the benefit to the school. A successful athletic program keeps the school's name in the newspapers and thus also in the minds of the alumni and prospective students.

Here is a question-has our bad football meant a decrease in enrollment? How about our bad basketball?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Here is a question-has our bad football meant a decrease in enrollment? How about our bad basketball?

I think you need to look deeper than just raw numbers on enrollment. WSU has had more applications than available spots for many years. A more relevant look would be to check out-of-state student applications, average GPA of applicants and other factors to really judge if football success (or lack thereof) is meaningful.

 

[kayak15]

Here is a question-has our bad football meant a decrease in enrollment? How about our bad basketball?

Obviously not, Ed, as enrollment has increased. More prospective students in play. I am not, however, greatly impressed by increased enrollment. If a high school kid were to tell you that he picked school X because they have a good basketball team, what does that tell you? It tells me the kid is an idiot. Attracted to WSU by our journalism, engineering or viniculture departments or others is appropriate when selecting higher education. Athletics? Not so much. Getting our name in the newspapers every day is, as noted by others, good publicity and keeps us in the minds of those considering college. More applicants means the ability to select better students. Quality>>>>>>quantity.

 

[CougEd]

Obviously not, Ed, as enrollment has increased. More prospective students in play. I am not, however, greatly impressed by increased enrollment. If a high school kid were to tell you that he picked school X because they have a good basketball team, what does that tell you? It tells me the kid is an idiot. Attracted to WSU by our journalism, engineering or viniculture departments or others is appropriate when selecting higher education. Athletics? Not so much. Getting our name in the newspapers every day is, as noted by others, good publicity and keeps us in the minds of those considering college. More applicants means the ability to select better students. Quality>>>>>>quantity.

So one would expect a schools applications to decrease and the average GPA per student to go down, correct? was that the case from 2004 to 2013?

Don't get me wrong, I think athletics is important to the university, but from a numbers stand point I don't know if there is a true measuring stick that "positive pub" can give a program.

 

[kayak15]

So one would expect a schools applications to decrease and the average GPA per student to go down, correct? was that the case from 2004 to 2013?

Don't get me wrong, I think athletics is important to the university, but from a numbers stand point I don't know if there is a true measuring stick that "positive pub" can give a program.

No, Ed, applications went up without noticeable effect from athletic prowess or lack thereof. More kids coming out of high school and looking into college attendance. A stationary number of colleges available to that population. Therefore, more applications per school. Those schools with the ability and desire to expand enrollment could do so. That is what happened to us. The high school grad/colleges ratio overcame the lost decade of Cougar athletics.

Athletics gets our name in print and thereby in the minds of those considering attendance. Let me ask you a question. When was the last time you read the words "Washington State University" in a Seattle newspaper beyond the sports page? If it were not for the athletic department and the sports pages, WSU would fade from memory of most of the Puget Sound population.

Someone once said that "Any publicity is good publicity". Although "Trojans Mail It In After Halftime And Still Beat Cougs By Eighty Something" rather stretches the point but at least it gets our school mentioned in print and noted by those concerned. Athletic success brings publicity- as does athletic failure- but does so in a positive manner.

On another note, one major reason I like university athletic competition is that it imbues the students, alumni and faculty for that matter with a sense of striving for success. Don't just be satisfied with doing your job; do it better than others.

Like yourself, I cannot point to a measuring stick for judgment as to whether the expenditure is worth it. Increased alumni donations, increased application from high school grads leading to higher quality students and an implementation of a competitive spirit come to mind. How those translate into dollars and cents, I don't know. Somebody above our pay grades will have to take this all into consideration, look at it sideways, apply the old UFF (Universal Fudge Factor) and come to a conclusion.

 

[Cougatron]

Below is a link to an article today in the local media that talks about Wichita State's investigations into bringing back football.

Losing money is ok?

As we talked about before, most college football programs are losing money right now. Wichita State is acknowledging this and has hired a third party to evaluate whether or not losing money on football is worth it if leads to higher enrollment and a higher profile for the university. I'm not sure where things will end up, but it is interesting to see a school saying, "We are ok with losing money on football if the ROI for the rest of the university balances out".

This kind of thinking is a radical departure from the past. In the previous three tries at bringing football back, the discussions ended when they realized that the university could never make money doing it.

You always are going to lose money when you start something. Always. Just like most businesses. A loan immediately puts you in the red. In the video they mention UNC Charlotte. UNC Charlotte spent and earned 5 Million on football last year as per their reporting to the federal government.

Nobody talks about WIchita State ever nationally in the media, and nobody cares about them. Joining football gives them exposure that they can't get elsewhere.

Are they really losing money by doing it? No. It's an investment. Like any investment it takes time to see a return on that investment.

It's the same people that cried when we spent money on Leach and didn't see immediately results. These are stupid people that don't understand long term investments.

We spent money on the cougar football project, hired a proven coach and paid him market rate, and 4 years later we are beating Oregon in Autzen, UCLA in the Rose Bowl, have field goal from beating Stanford, and winning the Sun Bowl over Miami, have a Heisman trophy watchlist QB.

Was it worth it? Hell yeah it was worth it.

But if we didn't take the risk and put the investment down we wouldn't have reaped anything. We'd still be the joke of the Pac-12 with an FCS Oline coach running the program into the dirt. We'd still be trying to get Ol'Crimson on gameday by having it in the background instead of actually competing with Notre Dame to have our game broadcast.

We'd be "doing it the right way" like fools still if we listened to anybody that said keep Wulff stay as we were.

We got rid of the backwards thinking fools. Threw Walden out on his ass and Jim Moore too and now we can compete with anybody. Anybody.

It doesn't matter if you are Wichita State or WSU. You don't take any chances in life then you will never find opportunities. History favors the bold, not the weak.

 

[YakiCoug]

Someone once said that "Any publicity is good publicity". Although "Trojans Mail It In After Halftime And Still Beat Cougs By Eighty Something" rather stretches the point but at least it gets our school mentioned in print and noted by those concerned. Athletic success brings publicity- as does athletic failure- but does so in a positive manner..

It was only 69!!!!

 

[YakiCoug]

You always are going to lose money when you start something. Always. Just like most businesses. A loan immediately puts you in the red. In the video they mention UNC Charlotte. UNC Charlotte spent and earned 5 Million on football last year as per their reporting to the federal government.

Nobody talks about WIchita State ever nationally in the media, and nobody cares about them. Joining football gives them exposure that they can't get elsewhere.

Are they really losing money by doing it? No. It's an investment. Like any investment it takes time to see a return on that investment.

It's the same people that cried when we spent money on Leach and didn't see immediately results. These are stupid people that don't understand long term investments.

We spent money on the cougar football project, hired a proven coach and paid him market rate, and 4 years later we are beating Oregon in Autzen, UCLA in the Rose Bowl, have field goal from beating Stanford, and winning the Sun Bowl over Miami, have a Heisman trophy watchlist QB.

Was it worth it? Hell yeah it was worth it.

But if we didn't take the risk and put the investment down we wouldn't have reaped anything. We'd still be the joke of the Pac-12 with an FCS Oline coach running the program into the dirt. We'd still be trying to get Ol'Crimson on gameday by having it in the background instead of actually competing with Notre Dame to have our game broadcast.

We'd be "doing it the right way" like fools still if we listened to anybody that said keep Wulff stay as we were.

We got rid of the backwards thinking fools. Threw Walden out on his ass and Jim Moore too and now we can compete with anybody. Anybody.

It doesn't matter if you are Wichita State or WSU. You don't take any chances in life then you will never find opportunities. History favors the bold, not the weak.

The $600,000 Club of Cretins begs to differ...

 

[kayak15]

It was only 69!!!!

O.K., we were close but it sure felt like eighty-something at the time.

 

[YakiCoug]

O.K., we were close but it sure felt like eighty-something at the time.

Don't lose your perspective: 9 and 40 was THAT close to 13 and 36.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Don't lose your perspective: 9 and 40 was THAT close to 13 and 37.

Good to see you guys driving the train off the tracks again. FWIW, this discussion doesn't have anything to do with ancient history. The only reason why I brought it up is that the WSU athletic department is currently operating with a deficit. Do you think it's ok for WSU to write off scholarship costs for the athletic department in order to remain competitive in sports? Is the publicity associated with an appearance in the Sun Bowl, getting some preseason Top 25 attention worth a few million dollars per year?

 

[YakiCoug]

Good to see you guys driving the train off the tracks again. FWIW, this discussion doesn't have anything to do with ancient history. The only reason why I brought it up is that the WSU athletic department is currently operating with a deficit. Do you think it's ok for WSU to write off scholarship costs for the athletic department in order to remain competitive in sports? Is the publicity associated with an appearance in the Sun Bowl, getting some preseason Top 25 attention worth a few million dollars per year?

A real Coug would take shots at other programs and their finances. Then again... . Btw, you don't seem to complain when you and other members of the $600,000 Club of Cretins do their share of off-track driving. You can't spell hypocrite and husky without an H.

 

[YakiCoug]

Ass kicked is all about perspective. I was just bringing up the article that says that Wichita State is thinking about football knowing that they will almost assuredly lose money. In the past, we always hear talk about is what a particular university is doing to get back to even keel. This is the first time I remember seeing an article that argues that losing money is ok as long as the university benefits overall.

For WSU, do you think it's ok for us to lose money on paper subsidizing football scholarships if the program is generating good publicity for the university? That's the conversation. I didn't bring up any of the other issues from the other conversation because that is a dead horse.

There's perspective, and then there's delusion and denial. HTH.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

A real Coug would take shots at other programs and their finances. Then again... . Btw, you don't seem to complain when you and other members of the $600,000 Club of Cretins do their share of off-track driving. You can't spell hypocrite and husky without an H.

You're the only one on the board who brings up Wulff. This thread is just another example. Ed has gotten pitchforked by the mob so often that he NEVER brings up Wulff on his own. You are the lone wolf when it comes to the Wulff obsession. Others will chime in after you've started peacocking around, but in general, 2011 is a long time ago in their minds. Feel free to answer whether or not you think WSU is ok operating in the red to maintain football. FWIW.......I think it's fine for us to write off scholarships.

Why the hell would a "real" coug need to take potshots at other programs? Is that your personal insecurity growing? You want to piss off fans from others schools? Build your program up and pat the fans from other schools on the head and tell them that you appreciate their efforts. Nebraska fans have that sh!t down to an art.

 

[YakiCoug]

You're the only one on the board who brings up Wulff. This thread is just another example. Ed has gotten pitchforked by the mob so often that he NEVER brings up Wulff on his own. You are the lone wolf when it comes to the Wulff obsession. Others will chime in after you've started peacocking around, but in general, 2011 is a long time ago in their minds. Feel free to answer whether or not you think WSU is ok operating in the red to maintain football. FWIW.......I think it's fine for us to write off scholarships.

Why the hell would a "real" coug need to take potshots at other programs? Is that your personal insecurity growing? You want to piss off fans from others schools? Build your program up and pat the fans from other schools on the head and tell them that you appreciate their efforts. Nebraska fans have that sh!t down to an art.

Which of my posts in this thread includes the word "Wulff"? Perhaps your cretin complex is at play here? Btw, you sound a lot like one or both of the brothers ediot or their wannabe mumsie. No one gets more sensitive about them than you do.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Which of my posts in this thread includes the word "Wulff"? Perhaps your cretin complex is at play here? Btw, you sound a lot like one or both of the brothers ediot or their wannabe mumsie. No one gets more sensitive about them than you do.

Jesus Christ, you are such an idiot and troll. You mention $600,000 club, 9-40 and crap like that and think the rest of us are too stupid to not realize what a frickin' troll you are being? You expend sooooo much energy being an a$$hole that I can't tell if you are truly stupid and incapable of seeing it, if it's some kind of mental illness, just some Freudian insecurity shining through or just what the hell your issues are. Seek some help, man.

Nobody is perfect but you are really the only person on this board that obsesses about Wulff. You can try and avoid saying his name and sticking with the innuendo, but you constantly derail threads with this B.S. You have the attention span of a squirrel with ADHD and the only thing that you can focus on is a guy who predates all the players on the current team. He's in the past.....let him go! This isn't about me defending ED and being a protective mother. This is me telling you that your obsession with Wulff makes you look like a stalker and everybody does a wallet check and a door lock check when they think about you because they don't want you stealing their stuff to pay for your anti-Wulff shrine.

 

[YakiCoug]

Whoosh. Right. Over. Your. Empty. Head.

Jesus Christ, you are such an idiot and troll. You mention $600,000 club, 9-40 and crap like that and think the rest of us are too stupid to not realize what a frickin' troll you are being? You expend sooooo much energy being an a$$hole that I can't tell if you are truly stupid and incapable of seeing it, if it's some kind of mental illness, just some Freudian insecurity shining through or just what the hell your issues are. Seek some help, man.

Nobody is perfect but you are really the only person on this board that obsesses about Wulff. You can try and avoid saying his name and sticking with the innuendo, but you constantly derail threads with this B.S. You have the attention span of a squirrel with ADHD and the only thing that you can focus on is a guy who predates all the players on the current team. He's in the past.....let him go! This isn't about me defending ED and being a protective mother. This is me telling you that your obsession with Wulff makes you look like a stalker and everybody does a wallet check and a door lock check when they think about you because they don't want you stealing their stuff to pay for your anti-Wulff shrine.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Oh a new thread.

Oh cool Yaki is bringing up the Wulff pissing match again.

 

[CougEd]

You're the only one on the board who brings up Wulff. This thread is just another example. Ed has gotten pitchforked by the mob so often that he NEVER brings up Wulff on his own. You are the lone wolf when it comes to the Wulff obsession. Others will chime in after you've started peacocking around, but in general, 2011 is a long time ago in their minds. Feel free to answer whether or not you think WSU is ok operating in the red to maintain football. FWIW.......I think it's fine for us to write off scholarships.

Why the hell would a "real" coug need to take potshots at other programs? Is that your personal insecurity growing? You want to piss off fans from others schools? Build your program up and pat the fans from other schools on the head and tell them that you appreciate their efforts. Nebraska fans have that sh!t down to an art.

One point of clarification Flat, since 2011 I originated his name once in a thread I started. No doubt I jumped in, but 2011 as you mentioned is a long time ago, so being pitchforked by the mob" was a byproduct of my involvement in a thread vs. bring it up on my own.

It will be interesting moving forward with budget deficits how programs will deal with being in the red.

 

[YakiCoug]

Oh a new thread.

Oh cool Yaki is bringing up the Wulff pissing match again.

The original allusion to the you-know-who era came from Kayak15's post, which included, "Someone once said that "Any publicity is good publicity". Although "Trojans Mail It In After Halftime And Still Beat Cougs By Eighty Something" rather stretches the point but at least it gets our school mentioned in print and noted by those concerned. Athletic success brings publicity- as does athletic failure- but does so in a positive manner."
Remember USC's 69-0 gutting of WSU? Yes, it must have been painful for Kayak to do that to you, Mama Flat, and others. I'm saddened you have to go through all that again.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The original allusion to the you-know-who era came from Kayak15's post, which included, "Someone once said that "Any publicity is good publicity". Although "Trojans Mail It In After Halftime And Still Beat Cougs By Eighty Something" rather stretches the point but at least it gets our school mentioned in print and noted by those concerned. Athletic success brings publicity- as does athletic failure- but does so in a positive manner."
Remember USC's 69-0 gutting of WSU? Yes, it must have been painful for Kayak to do that to you, Mama Flat, and others. I'm saddened you have to go through all that again.

If you look at the actual comments....you'll detect a difference. Kayak15 made a point that bad publicity isn't necessarily good without taking potshots at people. Your first response, "It was only 69!" was kind of funny and made sense. Of course, you just couldn't help yourself and had to make it personal with a couple posts taking potshots at other posters. You left it vague but you were still trolling for a response.....because that is what you do. My first response to it was a polite request to focus on the topic and quit trying to drive the train off the tracks and you're response was that real cougs are insecure a-holes that have to insult fans of other schools to feel better about themselves.......which says a lot about you.

 

[YakiCoug]

If you look at the actual comments....you'll detect a difference. Kayak15 made a point that bad publicity isn't necessarily good without taking potshots at people. Your first response, "It was only 69!" was kind of funny and made sense. Of course, you just couldn't help yourself and had to make it personal with a couple posts taking potshots at other posters. You left it vague but you were still trolling for a response.....because that is what you do. My first response to it was a polite request to focus on the topic and quit trying to drive the train off the tracks and you're response was that real cougs are insecure a-holes that have to insult fans of other schools to feel better about themselves.......which says a lot about you.

Watch out! Here comes Mama Flat! Some points of clarification I hope will guide you: "You're" is a contraction of "you are." The possessive pronoun that eluded you is "your," as in "your response." And "real cougs" don't expend the energy you, HecEd, and other members of the $600,000 Club of Cretins do pissing and moaning in the aftermath of a 9-4 season. It is OK for them to take shots at the U-dump, however. Instead, we have the president of the Little Dick Baird Club equating the huskies' loss of John Ross to the effect Falk's absence had on the WSU offense. That's quite telling.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Yaki....I did want to say that to your credit, you had let this go because you knew that it wasn't worth discussing anymore.

 

[YakiCoug]

Yaki....I did want to say that to your credit, you had let this go because you knew that it wasn't worth discussing anymore.

You can barely post an intelligent thought. Do not overwhelm yourself with attempts to understand superior minds and intellects. I'm trying to help you, mama.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You can barely post an intelligent thought. Do not overwhelm yourself with attempts to understand superior minds and intellects. I'm trying to help you, mama.

Superior mind........you are so frickin' precious.

Durrr......Wulff sucks! Durrrrrr.....9-40! Durrrrrr.......$600,0000............= YakiCoug doing his best Sid the Sloth!

Idiot.

 

[YakiCoug]

Superior mind........you are so frickin' precious.

Durrr......Wulff sucks! Durrrrrr.....9-40! Durrrrrr.......$600,0000............= YakiCoug doing his best Sid the Sloth!

Idiot.

Could you please post your diploma from the "Spongebob School of Internet Message Board Persuasion"? Thank you.

 

[wazzucougs96]

The original allusion to the you-know-who era came from Kayak15's post, which included, "Someone once said that "Any publicity is good publicity". Although "Trojans Mail It In After Halftime And Still Beat Cougs By Eighty Something" rather stretches the point but at least it gets our school mentioned in print and noted by those concerned. Athletic success brings publicity- as does athletic failure- but does so in a positive manner."
Remember USC's 69-0 gutting of WSU? Yes, it must have been painful for Kayak to do that to you, Mama Flat, and others. I'm saddened you have to go through all that again.

Yet somehow you are always in the middle of these derailed threads. You and ed, different sides of the same coin.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Could you please post your diploma from the "Spongebob School of Internet Message Board Persuasion"? Thank you.

I found your facebook profile picture.