You know this season has the potential to be one of the great ones. And Luke can rise to "Best ever" status if he takes us there. Can he/will he?
Luke Falk.......
- Thread starter Loyal Coug
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Falk is in the discussion but I don't see much of a rational argument for anyone above Ryan Leaf just based on his junior year alone and taking us to back to the Rose Bowl for the first time in 67 years literally on his back a lot of the time. Jason Gesser (back to Roses on one leg) is up there for me as well heading up that 3-year run.
Falk is going to be really tough to replace in a year even though we look to have some actual talent/depth behind him unlike when others in the "best ever discussion" have moved on.
Falk is going to be really tough to replace in a year even though we look to have some actual talent/depth behind him unlike when others in the "best ever discussion" have moved on.
Luke Falk will be considered the "best ever" if WSU qualifies for.....and wins.....the Rose Bowl. Fair or not, anything short of that and Leaf and others remain above him. Gesser was probably our best "leader" ever. Bledsoe and Rypien both can lay claim to best "pro QB" to ever attend WSU. Falk is a very good QB and many of his problems last year were more to do with our offensive line failing at times but no other WSU QB has lost twice to FCS teams. He has to do something extra to counter that in my opinion.
Falk will also have more wins than any other QB. He will have thrown for more TD's, more yards, have three straight winning seasons and bowls, and have a seven game in conference winning streak. I think he has done something extra already.
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Falk is a system QB. He throws 200 times more than prior generation QBs. He can't throw deep to save his life, and his completion percentage is boosted by a heavy dose of dink and dunk. Athletically he is Brad Gossen reborn. That said, no Cougar QB has done more with less. We can't run the ball even though defenses are spread sideline to sideline intent on stopping the pass. We are 1 dimensional to an extreme and our receiving corps aren't athletically at the same level as Gesser and Leaf had. YAC has been a pipe dream. Imagine what Falk's numbers if he had the TT running game and receiving talent under Leach.
He is just so hard to judge because it is largely an apples vs. oranges comparison. However, because we have won 9/8 games, with 3 win talent (in my opinion) with him at the helm, I believe he is on par with Gesser and Leaf, who achieved more, and above Bledsoe and Rosie, who had similar results with far more surrounding talent.
He is just so hard to judge because it is largely an apples vs. oranges comparison. However, because we have won 9/8 games, with 3 win talent (in my opinion) with him at the helm, I believe he is on par with Gesser and Leaf, who achieved more, and above Bledsoe and Rosie, who had similar results with far more surrounding talent.
In my mind, at this point Gesser is the top of the heap. He had sustained success over 3 seasons, and was a true team leader. Leaf and Bledsoe really only had one good season, and Leaf - while probably the most naturally talented of them all - wasn't the leader that Gesser and Falk were/are. I'd argue that there are several others who top Leaf in that category as well.
The only knock on Gesser is that he never won an Apple Cup, losing to inferior UW teams every year. Falk has the same issue now (with fewer tries).
Falk deserves to be in the conversation, but I'm not sure he jumps ahead of Gesser without a top 5 finish, Apple Cup win, and an invite to the Downtown Athletic Club.
You all are taking advantage of the MJ lack of laws in the State of Washington frequently to put Falk in the same breath as Leaf and even Gesser.
In fairness to Gesser, the 2002 AC was won, but our supposedly uber talented offense could not manage a single 1st down the rest of the way after his high ankle sprain. A single first down or a single defensive stop would have been enough. We couldn't even score a TD despite a first and goal on the one. That is why Gesser was wheeled out on a hand truck against UCLA, Without him we'd have lost by 40, that team was that emotionally fragile.
Highest Season rushing yards in Leach's coaching career
- 2016 - 1,605 WSU
- 2008 - 1,534 TT
Highest Season rushing attempts in Leach's coaching career
- 2002 - 386 TT
- 2016 - 356 WSU
- 10 Seasons at TT - Yds per rush avg was 3.78yds
- 5 Seasons at WSU- Yds per rush avg is 2.96yds (includes year-1 1.5yds
With His Style of O-Line guys now in place with quality depth, the numbers say the trend has changed from Year 1 at WSU to Year 5.
Every QB that ever played the game is a system QB.
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Let me preface this by saying that I hate lists and this is just another list. They were all good to great QB's at WSU and it really is difficult to compare because not all things are equal.
Gesser only had success over two years, not three. Football is also a team game and teammates also have a great deal to do with a teams success.
Statistically, it is not close with any QB in their career. Falk stands head and shoulders above the rest. Is he the best ever at WSU? Personally, I don't know and don't care. Like I said, I hate lists.
This is a key point. If he'd had a defense that could stop anyone, and had any bowl wins, Alex Brink would be in this conversation. Statistically, he beat everyone until we moved to the Air Raid...but did not have the wins that are prerequisite to consideration.
The 2005 team was so maddening. We averaged almost 35 points per game but lost five games but less than four points and another game (OSU) that we probably should have won. Akey was popular for his jumping skills but I'm not sold on his abilities as a DC.
less to do with his coaching and more to do with they (the entire coaching staff) stopped recruiting in the way that had gotten them to that point. IIRC, someone thought that they could compete with the big boys after 00-03 and decided to go way back east and TX and they ended up striking out a lot, instead of taking the west coast talent right in front of them.
We'll know about Falk's value next season when his replacement takes over. Personally, I think Luke is very good, but I'm not sure about him being elite. I felt that way about Gesser too.
If there were ever a year when the AR was a 50/50 balance, this could be the year. WSU has the horses up front to move the chains running the ball and pushing it over the goal line inside the 10 yard line.
If the WSU ground game and play action pass series aren't crushing people this year, when is the year???
Gesser was an elite leader of college football players. He made guys want to play their best. His arm? Not elite. Take the time to watch some of those games from 2001-02 and marvel at the punts that he threw out there that ended up for grabs. Of course, he did that knowing that we had some of the most tenacious WR's in the country and that they wouldn't let him down. We won 20 games in those two seasons because of Gesser's leadership, but if he'd had anything close to Ryan Leaf's talent, we would have been in contention for a national championship in 2002. Of course, if Leaf had been in Pullman in 2001, he wouldn't have stayed for that 2002 season. Sometimes, you need to be thankful for what you've got.
To a large degree, I think that applies this year as well. I don't see Falk as an elite QB. I do think that he's a good enough QB for us to win 10 games with as our leader. He needs our OL to do a better job of protecting him (I watched the 4th quarter of the Holiday Bowl the other night on the BTN and our OL has a lot of room for improvement when it comes to handling pressure). He needs to keep the running backs involved enough to keep defenses honest. We need someone to step up as a deep threat to stretch defenses. When I say that, it doesn't mean that we need a speedster. It means we need a guy like Mike bush or Jerome Riley who either catches the deep ball that floats a bit or makes sure that the DB sure as hell doesn't. They fight for the ball.
If everyone listens to Leach and follows his mantra: 1) Be a team. 2) Be the most excited to play. 3) Be the best at doing your job; this team is just talented enough to be pretty darned good and could even be 10-1 heading into the Apple Cup.
If Falk wins an Apple Cup AND a Rose Bowl, that gets him in the conversation. Combine that with the comeback wins he's achieved in prior seasons with inferior teams to this one and I think he'd belong with Leaf and Gesser. His ball actually reminds me of Gesser's in terms of touch, but I think he's a pinch more accurate. I've just been waiting for one or two guys that can go deep and go get the jump balls like Mike Bush used to in order to fully make use of Falk's talents in that regard. He doesn't have Halliday's velocity or release, but he's got vastly superior touch. If he does what I expect and gets us to 9 or so wins, then he's a good quarterback in the history of the program. If he leads the team to a conference title and a Rose Bowl he's in the top 3 or 4. If he wins a Rose Bowl, then you may hit the mountaintop.
It is not close, Falk is so much more accurate than Gesser. We all love Gesser, but his completion percentage was only 54.7%. Falk's is 68.8%. Gesser had a better Y/A at 7.9 to 7.2, but their AY/A are the same at 7.6. We are remembering Gesser as better than he was.
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Remember the punt passes that I mentioned earlier? I have no doubt that both inflated his yards per attempt and lowered his completion percentage. I agree that Gesser is remembered more fondly than his stats would suggest and most of that was based on the success we had while he was here. Falk is definitely one of the most accurate passers that we've ever had, regardless of the dink & dunk philosophy that does artificially increase it.
For me, the most impressive thing about Falk and his receivers is their mutual understanding of what they are doing. I'd guess that there were at least a dozen passes last year that as Falk released the ball, my initial thought was "where the hell are you throwing that?" because it appeared to be 5-10 yards off target. Then I would notice that after the ball was released, the receiver made an aggressive cut (without being able to see the throw) to the spot where the ball was going. In other cases, the ball is thrown to the receiver and it's obvious that the receiver hadn't seen it, but at the last moment, head turns and ball is caught. It's not that unusual for a QB to throw to a spot but Falk and his receivers have a better than usual chemistry in that regard. Unfortunately, Marks and Cracraft were clearly the best at it and the new guys need to step up their games to keep my comment relevant.
again, statistically yes, but W's don't lie. If we could mold every qb with Gessers leadership and sheer will to win... prayer balls be damned.
I completely agree regarding both Akey's abilities as a DC and regarding recruiting. But, I think there was another major factor. Conditioning was not good on those teams, most glaringly on D. I don't recall who the strength & conditioning coach was at the time (Oviatt?), but he was not getting it done. The result was the entire D sucking wind in the 4th, visibly spent, and the offense no longer able to muster even a first down. That led to multiple blown 4th quarter leads. It got worse each year from '04-'07, and I think it could be argued that the poor strength & conditioning planted the seeds for the dark years.
It was Oviatt, but he was also the S&C coach during the 10-10-10 years. It was more likely the lack of depth.
I don't think that there were enough punt passes to significantly move the needle one way or another, Gesser threw the ball over 1100 times for almost 9000 yards. Even with as many short passes that Falk throws, his Y/A is not that far behind Gesser.
I tend to think by the time the season starts, the passing game will be fine. Leach has too much of a track records replacing QB's and WR's with the offense not skipping a beat.
OL protection.
Balanced running attack.
Deep field thread.
You just described what every fan of every football team in the country thinks they need. I'm not saying you're wrong, just kind of cliche central.
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OL protection.
Balanced running attack.
Deep field thread.
You just described what every fan of every football team in the country thinks they need. I'm not saying you're wrong, just kind of cliche central.
Just because it's a cliche doesn't mean it isn't true!
Of course, we also know that at most schools, balanced is closer to 50/50, for a Leach offense, anything over 30% rushing attempts is balanced. On my deep threat, I'm not looking for a burner, I just want someone that catches some balls but also keeps the other guys from getting picks. When we played OSU in 2010, I was amazed to watch Justin Blackmon make our db's look like children as he ripped interceptions away from them. If you look at his stats, he wasn't particularly fast or big, but the dude was a reception machine in college. We need that kind of guy. Lob it down the field and he gets it.
On the OL comment, we did fine on most downs, but we really stunk whenever the other team brought pressure. I'm sure fans of every team feels the same way, but watching the end of the Holiday Bowl, it was pathetic in the fourth quarter watching our OL players skate backwards into Falk. That needs to get better, no matter how cliche it is.
If Falk can beat two of three ,USC, Stanford,Washington then he will qualify .otherwise it is just so many yards etc against the middle of the road teams. iI always hated to see 3-4 , 3 in and outs. and a couple of turnovers in the first quarter, then the game is essentially over and he picks up yards etc. His losing to two lower division teams is inexcusable. This is his last year and many people are watching. He has a great experienced offensive line and we will see how he does.The quality wins are more important than the stats ,people use to claim how great he is.
Bingo. Jason was the best team leader I have ever seen wearing the C&G. Hands down.
For El Comanche, I agree that to get to the top of our list, it requires more than gaudy stats. I think Falk has done enough that some of the other comments are out of line. The late drives in 2015 were unbelievably amazing and those alone get him in the conversation for our Top 10 QB's.
For Random, the difference between Falk and Gesser is how they throw their deep balls. Falk does a great job of putting the ball where only his guy can get it and Marks was a master at catching them. You are right that Falk could definitely throw a pass to a spot that was not expected and allow Marks to create space. Gesser would just launch up prayers that were answered by our outstanding receivers. That's not to say that Gesser wasn't a good QB. It's just that he took advantage of an edge that he knew that he had.
For Random, the difference between Falk and Gesser is how they throw their deep balls. Falk does a great job of putting the ball where only his guy can get it and Marks was a master at catching them. You are right that Falk could definitely throw a pass to a spot that was not expected and allow Marks to create space. Gesser would just launch up prayers that were answered by our outstanding receivers. That's not to say that Gesser wasn't a good QB. It's just that he took advantage of an edge that he knew that he had.
I still wonder why Gesser gets little credit from a significant contingent Cougar fans than he got/gets from the conference coaches who named him Co-offensive player of the year.
Prayers? In modern parlance they are "back shoulder" throws to big receivers, taking advantage of the skills set of Darling and Bush, and before that Wynn and McElrath. Geez, what type of ball should you throw to a 6'6" WR basketball player? A line drive, giving the quicker 5'9" DB covering him a much better chance? Really? Conversely many of the "prayers" did Gesser throw to receivers like Lundy, Moore, Henderson, Riley? 13 Ints in 402 attempts when you are actually throwing deep down field (see below) indicates skill, not prayers.
Deep balls? Maybe the definition was changed over the years, but Falk doesn't throw deep balls that anyone catches -- Marks 10.0 y/c Sweet 13.2 Martin 11.2, Williams 13.9 compared to Riley 17.5 y/c, Darling 14.8, Bush 20.8, McElrath 16.5, Wynn 18.5. When you have 89 catches and you don't gain 900 yards you are a dink and dunk receiver, not a deep threat. When you average 10.2 and 10.0 per completion (that includes YAC), you aren't throwing deep when you compare it to 15.1 and 14.5 per completion for Gesser. Gesser threw 45 to 50 percent further down field on every completion, on average, probably further, if you buy into the premise that he didn't hit receivers in stride and Falk is Mr. accuracy, allowing his receiver great YAC opportunity.
Falk has done more with less than any QB in school history, for that reason alone he is on the same level as Leaf and Gesser. But saying a QB in a dink and dunk offense in more accurate than vertical stretch QBs is comparing apples and oranges. Claiming a dink and dunk QB throws a great deep ball, when you have to go deep in thought to remember the last time we attempted, let alone completed, an over the top pass play is just silly.
