I think we can and should expect to win the division this season. This is the best opportunity WSU has had to make noise since 2002, when WSU was also coming off a Sun Bowl win.
My outlook for this season
- Thread starter MRICoug
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I think we can and should expect to win the division this season. This is the best opportunity WSU has had to make noise since 2002, when WSU was also coming off a Sun Bowl win.
Well you, 1990, Yaki are among the smart ones that knew Leach was going to lose more games his first year than Mr Incompetent did his last year with a back up QB, thus was a bit under expectations. Then the following year you three knew he would exceed expectations with a group consisting of players recruited by the prior guy, then in 2014 you three knew they would crap the bed with a good portion of newly recruited players.
Gotta ask, exactly where will they finish in 2016 and should we expect to go backwards in terms of wins and losses? It sure sounds like winning 6 is a pretty low projection.
Oh look! It's the Consistency Crusade, and we get 80s reference as a special bonus!
Here's the thing Ed- Wulff couldn't recruit worth a lick. So, that meant he HAD to engage the players on the roster to give himself a chance to look even minimally competent. He didn't, so you got three of the worst years in school history. Leach can recruit, so new guys that were actually decent got thrust into the two deep immediately. Please at least try to understand that when talking about hearts and minds.
Read this thread and you'll see what I think for 2016.
And where is your criticism of Wulff going backward to 2 wins, 1 win and 2 wins again for 2008-2010? Be consistent.
I expected two or three wins after the doba era, regardless of who the coach was. Second, why would I have higher expectations of what Wulff could accomplish than what Price did in a total rebuild after 1998? So that was my baseline.
Third, have you once heard from me to have him fired, hot seat, or his methods of running off players, or anything else? All I said in HINDSIGHT the CU game was tipping point, and what they needed in that game is for the coach to finish it off. Should he be on some sort of watch list, a red flag if you will of future actions. No.
And like I have said many times transitions are hard. They just are. So when someone posts about how the coach should have won the hearts and minds of the athletes in 2009/2009 I call BS. So I am and was tempered in what I thought about in 2012. But to say peoples expectation(which this thread was about) was fewer wins than the guy fired I would say no one had that on their radar.
You complained about McCartney being shown the door. You complained about his comments after the 2012 Utah game. You complained about the hose. You complained about losing to CU in 2012. I'm sure the list is longer than that.
Your nonsense here is well known. This thread is about 2016, but here you are reliving 2012, the Wulff era, and the 80s.
Actually, I did give you a reasoned response. Also, the 2011 team and the 2012 are not the same team. The other eleven schools in the conference were not the same either. Some teams get better, others are worse and some are about the same. Do you not understand this?
It is a reason why this team in 2016 can actually be better, but have a worse record than the 2015 team. Plus, we have went through this before. The 2011 team played a very weak non conference schedule, so that was two wins. Then, they played CU with a RB and WR starting at cornerback and safety. Then, ASU was in free fall when WSU beat them, as they lost their last five games and Erickson was fired. Yes, the team earned the wins. But, lets be real, everything that lead to those four victories were not likely repeatable besides scheduling the sisters of the poor for the non-conference games for two wins.
If you are going to mention starting ML, a QB that had previously started and who was just as productive as Tuel, hurt Wulff. Then, you have to admit that starting two offensive players at DB may have hurt Colorado?
Regarding what I wrote years ago about the "Hearts and minds" of the players. Way to lie about the context I used it back then. But, it is typical of you. Wulff came in from day one with a scorched earth policy and was a total dick to many players. I wrote about that from day one.
Leach came in with a message of this is the way we are going to do things. Hard work and discipline. The players were neither at that time and some of them fought against that.
You're welcome.
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E.D. was too busy trying to backpedal his way out of predicting Wulff would mirror Price 2001-2002 and Doba 2003, as in three consecutive 10-win seasons.
Still backing away from your prediction of 6-6 for 2016, I see. And still obsessing over 2012.
So many responses...where to start...
People put way too much stock in Halliday's night against ASU. Go back and look at the tape...he didn't set a record, ASU gave it to him. Their D was barely there that night, and they still could have beat us. Halliday got away with a lot of bad throws because their DBs we're asleep. The next week, Utah picked him off 3-4 Times when he tried the same things. Thinking of him as a rising star based on that game was just dumb.
At QB in 2012, we were screwed. Tuel never got the offense. Halliday did a little, but kept making sophomore mistakes and then pouting about them...a problem he didn't get past until his last season. Lintz disappeared, and we had nothing on D but Travis Long.
Let's not have such selective memory about 2011, ok? How about we remember that one win was against CU...in which we needed TWO last minute prayers answered, even though they played the game with no healthy DBs. One win was against a team that had given up, the other two were against one of the worst FCS teams and maybe the worst FBS team. Oh, and that backup QB who almost beat UCLA had a better passer rating than Tuel ever had.
I don't think anyone thought we'd bowl in 2012. I'm not sure anyone thought we would in 13. But I'll forgive some irrational exuberance at the time, because after 2008-2011, I think a lot of us forgot what real football looked like. We certainly weren't seeing it in Pullman. And we wouldn't have, if Moos hadn't stopped the bleeding. Because you're right - W had a ceiling. We saw it - 4 wins against one of the softest schedules we've had.
Well that is certainly one take.
The only reason McCartney was ever brought up is I had said Wulff was no different than other coaches in his operation. (not talking about results). People would complain about him being rigid and not winning the hearts and minds of the players. Not a legit complaint. All coaches do that. Wulff ran some players. All coaches do that. That is the ONLY reason McCartney was brought up. You and others kept saying Leach wouldn't run a scholie player. I used him as an example of a player being run. And you argued that Leach doesn't do that. I wish I and waited four months as I knew two weeks before Golden, Duckett, Simmons were getting run out of town. I had zero problem with a former walkon getting the boot. The only thing that didn't make sense is he was already graduated. He could have played in the fall and the scholie still would have been available. In other words, him playing had no future baring on the 2013 recruiting class. If he wasn't graduated, and if his scholie was affecting recruiting yeah it would have made more sense. But I could care less if Wilson quit, Rodgers quit, Golden and Duckett got run. They have a finite time to get their players in.
Yes, I mentioned I didn't like the lineman being called out as they were. Nor did I like Wulff complaining about a former players son switching his commitment at the last minute. Or Asante Cleveland. I get such late switches affect him more than others. but pissing about it in the public. Either event put a coach in the cross hairs? Nope.
Yeah, I didn't like the school getting investigated for such nonsense. As Moos pointed out the S and G coach was out of line. Stopped the act. Do I believe Leach ever tells the s and c coach what to do in the pit? Nope. All I know is he says roll the mfers.
And I didn't say jack about the CU game until the season was over, and my comment that was a pivotal game. I also mentioned 100 times saying transitions are hard and Leach or anyone else should get a "pass".
95---anyone can use that exact same lens. Don't forget we beat a Rutgers team that was missing their top four defensive backs and needed a late TD to win. Don't forget we beat an Oregon team without their QB and top wide out. We beat a Arizona team without their top defensive player in Scooby Wright and several other defensive players. Don't forget we lost to PSU. Don't forget we beat a CU team without their QB and they were horrible anyway. Don't forget we beat a really bad OSU team. See, that same lens can be used every year.
And when you talk about Tuel it isn''t just about his QB rating. I could go the UCLA tape in which UCLA scored a TD late and won that if Tuel was in there there would have been two more TD's. It was about the threat of his running and pulling the ball out of Galvins stomach. The DE was crashing down almost to the guard center gap because he knew Lobster was pulling the ball out. If he did, he would still be running.
Not sure how anyone didn't believe with the same team back, adding Guata that Leach could raise two more wins, in light of the team losing to Utah by 2 inches, and losing to UCLA late in the game.
But back to the bigger point, anyone can pick apart a schedule and say ASU quit, Utah doesn't play well in the cold, we beat a bad CU team (which by the way we lost to the following year) lost to a SDSU team tat didn't respect us. We could do that every year. Even in 2013 when we needed a win against Utah and they didn't have their starting qb or their back up, and a third string QB put up 35 on us, and we picked him twice for TD's. Such analysis can be done every single year.
Qb's who stick on the fringes of the NFL are scrubs. It is funny when it comes to Tuel, so many others thought so much more of him than our own fan base. And in terms of Halliday, I think the ASU game did show exactly what he had. Doesn't he hold the school records after playing two years?
Nope and nope. Backing away? Actually I increased it. I think if can re-Derect you to my post on 9/1/2015, I said before the season started this team had 8 wins on the schedule. I figured with a young secondary and QB it would be 6. And I have said the Apple Cup in Pullman will determine the Pac 12 north participant. So I am seeing 9 to 10 wins. How is that backing away from it 6-6?
And no, I am not obsessing over 2012. I am responding to other posts about it. Actually the 'post" that seemed to drive the most posts on this board in four months was a simple post saying maybe this is the year the expectations and results marry up. In 2012 (I will even lower the bar) the expectation was Leach would at least match what Wulff had done, the following year after losing three lineman and starting walk-ons the expectation was below 6-6 and no bowl. Then in 2014 after a bowl game no one expected the step back, and yet we did, and very few people expected 9-3 breaking in a new QB. The post wasn't about 2012, but rather evening out the expectations and have them in line with the results. And I think they will assuming falk stays healthy.
You said quite a bit of jack right after the CU game was over.
Why do you bother even responding?
You complained ad nauseum about Leach back then and his treatment of the players. How he pulled scholarship offers that Wulff had given. How he ran off scholarship players. Now, you are trying to change what you wrote years later.
Wulff came in with a scorched earth policy from day one. I wrote about it back then, because I knew players on the team. Wulff played favorites and did everything to disrespect players. It wasn't about effort, like Leach preached. He was a complete #^$#$$ from day one.
That is the difference between not trying to win the hearts and minds of the players. He didn't care about them. Then, he would do a presser in the afternoon complaining about the players.
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Yeah, if you look back to the first page of this thread, when it was still about actual football, I mentioned the convenient timing of our Oregon game. But there's a difference right there.
The team grew up every week. They didn't fold after losing to PSU, they bounced back and won in the last minute on the road. They bounced back from the Cal loss and beat UO on the road. They bounced back from the Stanford loss to beat ASU, and then beat UCLA in a tough game on the road. They had leaders - Falk, Marks, Vaeao, Allison, etc., and they didn't quit for anything.
The 2012 team had statistical leaders, but no real leaders. They never showed up for the opener, and then did nothing all season. Even the CU loss, while disappointing, was predictable - CU really outplayed us most of the game. Our D never really stopped them, but their turnovers gave us the lead. Once they stopped turning it over, we weren't going to win. The only faint glimmer of maturity the whole season was in AC, when Tuel basically willed them to a win...and we still needed back-to-back monumentally bad plays by UW's kicker and QB.
I'm not going to speculate on what could have happened if Tuel played against UCLA, because there's no way to know. The simple truth is that there was no clear leader at QB all season - none of the 3 who played managed to get the team to play consistently.
The 2011 ASU game was a meaningless measure. Sure, he set a freshman record for yards...but how many times did DBs drop INTs, how many times did they just completely blow the coverage? That game forever gets an asterisk because it was more a result of bad defense than a dominating QB performance. And the records don't really mean anything. Coming into this season, Chad Davis was still in our record books, and he only played 2 years. Should we talk about what a great QB he was?
Sounds quite a bit like a Donald Trump "I didn't start it!" argument, the kind Anderson Cooper categorized as the kind "a 5 year old" would make. As you near 60, what is your excuse? Perhaps the obsessive rants are due to the fact you're so alone here these days (see the blacklisting of nookie and the moronic little sis).
With the exception in 2011 against SDSU, UCLA, Utah, Oregon, two powder puffs, UW, UCLA, Utah, and ASU. In that list all but Oregon they had a chance. But first three years ..yep...totally agree it was a mess.
The 2011 Apple Cup? Wulff curled up in the fetal position at the end and punted. I guess at least the game got to the fourth quarter before he quit. That sure is progress.
Suffering from Derektile Dysfunction and thus causes the inability to read? I said I responded to what was written and offered my opinion. You see, the original discussion was matching expectations with results. The years there were expectations they didn't fair as well as when there were no expectations. Seemed like a minor point. But apparently there were no expectations in 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2015. So I stand corrected on my original post. And if you read what I said I commented on 2013 and 2015 wildly exceeding expectations and not meeting expectations in 12 and 14. But I guess everyone thought that was a bowl team in 13 and knew they were going to 3-9 in 2014.
Nanookie,, feel free to tell me about my ex-wife that I don't know about. You clearly have lost your stalking talent.
I believe one of us might be a hair (not literally in your case) closer to 60 than others...but I digress.
I know 45-10 is way closer. I would love for it to be a game in the 4th quarter against the UW, like it was in 08, 10, 11 and 2012. Get it to the 4th quarter and let Leach do his thing.
Comparing Leach to Wulff is pure foolishness. Leach won 9 games last season. You know, the same number Wulff won in four years....
This tired ass argument again....
Paul Wulff after 4 years is now a position coach for an FCS school 4 years after he was fired from a Power 5 coaching position.
Mike Leach took a team that hasn't been to a bowl game in a decade twice to bowls, a 9 win season, beat everyone in the conference at least once except Stanford (which only had a missed field goal) including USC in the coliseum, Oregon in Autzen, UCLA in the rose bowl coached a player to a 1st round draft pick, beat Miami in the post season, and won coach of the year....
Seriously anyone that thinks Paul Wulff accomplished anything except tanking our depth and recruiting is honestly either stupid or naive. One or the other. Those are the only two options at this point as the facts are 100% clear.
Leach is a college football hall of fame inductee coach.
Paul Wulff is the greatest doing it the right way never was.
Paul Wulff after 4 years is now a position coach for an FCS school 4 years after he was fired from a Power 5 coaching position.
Mike Leach took a team that hasn't been to a bowl game in a decade twice to bowls, a 9 win season, beat everyone in the conference at least once except Stanford (which only had a missed field goal) including USC in the coliseum, Oregon in Autzen, UCLA in the rose bowl coached a player to a 1st round draft pick, beat Miami in the post season, and won coach of the year....
Seriously anyone that thinks Paul Wulff accomplished anything except tanking our depth and recruiting is honestly either stupid or naive. One or the other. Those are the only two options at this point as the facts are 100% clear.
Leach is a college football hall of fame inductee coach.
Paul Wulff is the greatest doing it the right way never was.
It truly is that simple...
Although I wouldn't see Leach being in the hall of fame until he wins a natty, whether at WSU or else where...
Keep stabbing in the dark of desperation. Btw, your channeling for chinooknuts is keeping you quite busy these days. Good show, old chap.
And Oregon was in no danger of losing to us. They never trailed, and had a 3 score lead on the 4th, it only looks respectable because their backups let us in the end zone inside 2 minutes to play.
I am not comparing the two. I simply disagree with the fact the 2011 team was not competitive. And as you pointed out the 2010 and 11 Apple Cup was a game. 2015 not so much, and I would rather "punt" as you pout it and be in the game that getting blown out.
Yet another Wulffian defense. Does Chris Ball have pictures? (Let's hope not). By the way, please adhere to simple rules of English, and please no longer "pout."
Except you were, and are. Please point out where I said anything about the 2010 AC.
Jesus Ed. Your arguments are getting out there (they were already on the fringes of delusion). What exactly is your point? You prefer the Wulff regime due to competitive Apple Cups?
Notice Ed's argument that the 2011 WSU team was competitive in the AC. Yet that team (which was down 28-14 with just over a minute left in the 3rd quarter and lost 35-21) was led by Marshall Lobbestael (29-42-1, 3 TDs, 344 yards). This is the same "back-up" that cost Wulff that magical and would-be pivotal 6-6 season in '11.
As for the 2010 AC, UW was up 28-14 in the second half until a couple of Jake Locker turnovers tightened the game. It was more of that than Wulff's prowess that produced the 35-28 final. But here we are in 2016, following a 9-win season, a bowl victory, and with very decent prospects this coming season, and Ed still has his chubby, stubby legs wrapped around CPW. The poor old sap continues to ignore how a perfect storm of injuries to the WSU offense produced last year's AC loss, one in which a "back up" had to play. This obsession of his knows no end. The drizzle of piss continues.
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