ND Okafor - Cal to WSU

[SaveFerris]

A brandx poster posted about Okafor a few days ago saying he committed (and 2 other as well). Apparently now official. He was injured last year after 9 games. PF/C at 6'9" 235. Not much offense. Rim protector, defense, and boards.

 

[SaveFerris]

Freshman highlights.

 

[Rich Lewis]

Don't remember him. Played a total of 35 against us in 3 games in 2023. Definitely limited to inside.

 

[SaveFerris]

I don’t remember him at all either, but saw the highlight of him dunking on us 2 years ago. Apparently did a good job defending Gueye.

Looks like a solid piece if recovered from the knee.

 

[Coug1990]

It is hard to know how big of a piece this will be. He was offered by a lot of high major teams when he came to the US. He was not a big contributor as a freshman, and he missed most of last season.

Here is another video of the under 16 European Championships. He does look very athletic. Most of his shots are either dunks or within two feet of the basket. At 16, he did look like he has good feet. Perhaps he played soccer growing up as well.

 

[mikalalas]

A brandx poster posted about Okafor a few days ago saying he committed (and 2 other as well). Apparently now official. He was injured last year after 9 games. PF/C at 6'9" 235. Not much offense. Rim protector, defense, and boards.

View embedded media

Finally, getting a PAC 12, Power 4,5 recruit, player, athlete, with athleticism, etc, instead of giving scholly's, to PREFERRED WALK ON, Rohosy, Ben Oleson, etc, level 6-6, 6-7, 6-8, stick figure, less athletic, Lodwick like(that might be a disservice to Lodwick, who despite being 6-6, razor thin, laterally slow, less athleticism, undersized, out of position at 4, too slow to play the 3, still managed to do well his 5th year senior year.), slower, less explosive, can't jump as high, etc, whatever their reason(s), for only sitting on the bench, only playing about, around, between about 8 to 16 minutes, and only getting about 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 ppg, and 1.5, 2, 2.5 ish, etc, rebounds per game, at the Whitworth college, CWU, community college, NWAAC, Big Sky, non power conference, non G5 conference, non PAC 12, non WCC, MWC, level, etc.

I'm sure that those recruits, players were, are, awesome guys, that smart, wise, study, work hard, nice, kind, awesome people, guys, human beings, etc, and exactly the kind of awesome roleplayers, bench players, preferred walk ons, etc, on, at the end of the WSU, bench, etc, and are like Rudy, etc, from the movie Rudy. But just like Rudy, wouldn't get a scholly, etc, these players probably aren't worth a scholly at, on WSU, unless they first prove it, earn it.

At least Dick Bennet, at least his players like Daven Harmeling, etc, that literally nobody else wanted, that probably should have been Big Sky players, etc, that the only way for them to shine, etc, was BENNET BALL, they were either about equal or slightly better the the guys Riley getting, and Riley isn't going to be playing BENNET BALL to help them shine either. Unless they are like Lodwick, etc, they are semi probably semi destined for end of the bench, or if they do start, they will be like Blake Pengally, etc, and get beat by the WCC, etc.

1,2,3 of Riley's players are good, studs, etc, because they did well, produced GOOD stats, etc, at the LOWER LEVELS.

Players don't have to be Stat monkeys, and produce GOOD stats, etc, but if they are not going to be big time GOOD Stat producers at the lower levels, they better have all the other things like athleticism, explosiveness, speedy, quick, can jump HIGHER, or HIGHER then others, play really good shutdown defense, ALL the things that don't get statistical credit for, that is quite valuable, wins a lot of games, etc. Usually the tall 7 footers, etc, are, can be like that, while the guards, wingmen, skill players are the Stat producers.

Just to put things into perspective, Ken Bone found, recruited, got Aden, who was about, between about 6-1.5, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, was a speedy, lots of athleticism, could score, rebound, shoot, make baskets by creating own shot, driving, midrange, 3's, and scored about 30 ppg, about 4 rebound per game, good defense, against GOOD competition, at a good lower level. He was a bout a 3.5 star TRANSFER recruit, and quite the get for Bone.

Aden was only a 6th, 7th man off bench, situational semi starter, bench guy, that averaged about, around 21 to 23 to 25 minutes per game, and about, around 7,8,9, ish ppg, at the PAC 12 level.

If even Aden, who was a STUD, at the lower level, MUCH BETTER then the recruits that Riley getting at the Community College, Big Sky level, etc, STRUGGLED at the PAC 12, HIGHER LEVEL, then what's going to happen with players that NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE, FAR BENEATH where Aden was before he transfered?

Another example to put things into perspective.

Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, in the NWAAC, played at the same level as Quin something whatever it's spelled that one of the recruits was either on bench, or only scored 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds.

There is several players from BBCC(Jeff Palmer, Mingo Scott, Smith, Ben SMOOTH, that altho got hardcore looks from WSU, OSU, etc, that started, got lots of playing time, had awesome stats, against awesome best possible competition(by NWAAC level standards(also played, beat EWU, CWU, WHITWORTH, LC ST, North Idao St, North Idaho College, the Quin something NWAAC community College, that Riley's recruit from, Clackamas, types, etc, went to NWAAC play offs, etc), NEVER PLAYED AT THE WCC, PAC 12, BIG SKY LEVELS, AND THEY WERE EITHER ABOUT THE SAME, AT WORST, AN OR WAY THE HELL BETTER PLAYERS then the guy that Riley got from the community college, that can't even score 7 ppg at the lower community college level.

To put things into further perspective, even Graham, Ernie Kent, Kevin Eastman, Ken Bone, wouldn't have gotten, given a scholly to a player that can ONLY get about 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game at the community college level. Such players would be like Rohosy, Ben Oleson, type of end of bench, walk on players. So even the losingest coaches in WSU bball history recruited better players then the 7 ppg, 2.7 rpg community college player, that Riley is giving a scholly to.

I understand that the 6-7 recruit shoots 37% from 3 point range, etc. While that's good, that's still only at the community college lower level, and there are 1000's of players, even similar low scoring bench players, that shoot a better 3 point %, at the same lower levels, as the 37%, 6-7 Riley recruit.

That player, recruit, etc, is probably going to be a walk on level, end of bench player, that might be a good roleplayer for WSU by his 5th year senior season, if he doesn't transfer portal leave, that's wasting a scholly spot, that is better filled by Okafor, others

Okafor may not be a Stat producer, but he was injured, is more athletic, passes the eyeball test, did awesome at lower level, etc, is from a PAC 12, ACC, P4, P5 program like Cal, is, was a 3.5+ star recruit on paper.

Riley needs to grab more Okafor or better level transfers, HS recruits, etc, instead of grabbing less athletic, less producing, bench players, from the lower levels.

And another example. The last FCS, Big Sky coach, like Riley, from EWU that became HC at WSU, that like Riley, recruited BENCH players, from the lower levels like Tuel(Tuel was a BENCH player(And wouldn't have been recruited by even FCS programs, and only by WULF, went 9-40).

Now if Riley starts getting more players like Price, Cowart, Okafor, instead of only getting 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game statistical duds, bench players, at the lower, community college levels, then Riley will do a hell of a lot way better then WULF. But if Riley gets more of the 6-7, Stat, bench duds, from the lower community college level, etc,then in the WCC, Riley would only get about 7 to 10 to 13 wins, for 2,3,4,5 seasons, before get fired, UNLESS he played BENNET BALL, like Dick Bennet, and like Dick Bennet, find a way to make team more then sum of parts, and make even the players that nobody else wants, for good reason,
shine.

More Okafor, Cowart, Price, types, PLEASE Riley, instead of 6-7, 7 ppg, 2.7 rebound per game Stat, bench duds at the lower community college, etc, levels that glorified walk ons, end of bench, Rohosy(Walk On, end of bench), Ben Oleson types, that waste of scholly spots, that transforming WSU into a Big Sky, University of Idaho level bball program, that get pummeled in WCC.

 

[Coug1990]

Finally, getting a PAC 12, Power 4,5 recruit, player, athlete, with athleticism, etc, instead of giving scholly's, to PREFERRED WALK ON, Rohosy, Ben Oleson, etc, level 6-6, 6-7, 6-8, stick figure, less athletic, Lodwick like(that might be a disservice to Lodwick, who despite being 6-6, razor thin, laterally slow, less athleticism, undersized, out of position at 4, too slow to play the 3, still managed to do well his 5th year senior year.), slower, less explosive, can't jump as high, etc, whatever their reason(s), for only sitting on the bench, only playing about, around, between about 8 to 16 minutes, and only getting about 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 ppg, and 1.5, 2, 2.5 ish, etc, rebounds per game, at the Whitworth college, CWU, community college, NWAAC, Big Sky, non power conference, non G5 conference, non PAC 12, non WCC, MWC, level, etc.

I'm sure that those recruits, players were, are, awesome guys, that smart, wise, study, work hard, nice, kind, awesome people, guys, human beings, etc, and exactly the kind of awesome roleplayers, bench players, preferred walk ons, etc, on, at the end of the WSU, bench, etc, and are like Rudy, etc, from the movie Rudy. But just like Rudy, wouldn't get a scholly, etc, these players probably aren't worth a scholly at, on WSU, unless they first prove it, earn it.

At least Dick Bennet, at least his players like Daven Harmeling, etc, that literally nobody else wanted, that probably should have been Big Sky players, etc, that the only way for them to shine, etc, was BENNET BALL, they were either about equal or slightly better the the guys Riley getting, and Riley isn't going to be playing BENNET BALL to help them shine either. Unless they are like Lodwick, etc, they are semi probably semi destined for end of the bench, or if they do start, they will be like Blake Pengally, etc, and get beat by the WCC, etc.

1,2,3 of Riley's players are good, studs, etc, because they did well, produced GOOD stats, etc, at the LOWER LEVELS.

Players don't have to be Stat monkeys, and produce GOOD stats, etc, but if they are not going to be big time GOOD Stat producers at the lower levels, they better have all the other things like athleticism, explosiveness, speedy, quick, can jump HIGHER, or HIGHER then others, play really good shutdown defense, ALL the things that don't get statistical credit for, that is quite valuable, wins a lot of games, etc. Usually the tall 7 footers, etc, are, can be like that, while the guards, wingmen, skill players are the Stat producers.

Just to put things into perspective, Ken Bone found, recruited, got Aden, who was about, between about 6-1.5, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, was a speedy, lots of athleticism, could score, rebound, shoot, make baskets by creating own shot, driving, midrange, 3's, and scored about 30 ppg, about 4 rebound per game, good defense, against GOOD competition, at a good lower level. He was a bout a 3.5 star TRANSFER recruit, and quite the get for Bone.

Aden was only a 6th, 7th man off bench, situational semi starter, bench guy, that averaged about, around 21 to 23 to 25 minutes per game, and about, around 7,8,9, ish ppg, at the PAC 12 level.

If even Aden, who was a STUD, at the lower level, MUCH BETTER then the recruits that Riley getting at the Community College, Big Sky level, etc, STRUGGLED at the PAC 12, HIGHER LEVEL, then what's going to happen with players that NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE, FAR BENEATH where Aden was before he transfered?

Another example to put things into perspective.

Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, in the NWAAC, played at the same level as Quin something whatever it's spelled that one of the recruits was either on bench, or only scored 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds.

There is several players from BBCC(Jeff Palmer, Mingo Scott, Smith, Ben SMOOTH, that altho got hardcore looks from WSU, OSU, etc, that started, got lots of playing time, had awesome stats, against awesome best possible competition(by NWAAC level standards(also played, beat EWU, CWU, WHITWORTH, LC ST, North Idao St, North Idaho College, the Quin something NWAAC community College, that Riley's recruit from, Clackamas, types, etc, went to NWAAC play offs, etc), NEVER PLAYED AT THE WCC, PAC 12, BIG SKY LEVELS, AND THEY WERE EITHER ABOUT THE SAME, AT WORST, AN OR WAY THE HELL BETTER PLAYERS then the guy that Riley got from the community college, that can't even score 7 ppg at the lower community college level.

To put things into further perspective, even Graham, Ernie Kent, Kevin Eastman, Ken Bone, wouldn't have gotten, given a scholly to a player that can ONLY get about 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game at the community college level. Such players would be like Rohosy, Ben Oleson, type of end of bench, walk on players. So even the losingest coaches in WSU bball history recruited better players then the 7 ppg, 2.7 rpg community college player, that Riley is giving a scholly to.

I understand that the 6-7 recruit shoots 37% from 3 point range, etc. While that's good, that's still only at the community college lower level, and there are 1000's of players, even similar low scoring bench players, that shoot a better 3 point %, at the same lower levels, as the 37%, 6-7 Riley recruit.

That player, recruit, etc, is probably going to be a walk on level, end of bench player, that might be a good roleplayer for WSU by his 5th year senior season, if he doesn't transfer portal leave, that's wasting a scholly spot, that is better filled by Okafor, others

Okafor may not be a Stat producer, but he was injured, is more athletic, passes the eyeball test, did awesome at lower level, etc, is from a PAC 12, ACC, P4, P5 program like Cal, is, was a 3.5+ star recruit on paper.

Riley needs to grab more Okafor or better level transfers, HS recruits, etc, instead of grabbing less athletic, less producing, bench players, from the lower levels.

And another example. The last FCS, Big Sky coach, like Riley, from EWU that became HC at WSU, that like Riley, recruited BENCH players, from the lower levels like Tuel(Tuel was a BENCH player(And wouldn't have been recruited by even FCS programs, and only by WULF, went 9-40).

Now if Riley starts getting more players like Price, Cowart, Okafor, instead of only getting 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game statistical duds, bench players, at the lower, community college levels, then Riley will do a hell of a lot way better then WULF. But if Riley gets more of the 6-7, Stat, bench duds, from the lower community college level, etc,then in the WCC, Riley would only get about 7 to 10 to 13 wins, for 2,3,4,5 seasons, before get fired, UNLESS he played BENNET BALL, like Dick Bennet, and like Dick Bennet, find a way to make team more then sum of parts, and make even the players that nobody else wants, for good reason,
shine.

More Okafor, Cowart, Price, types, PLEASE Riley, instead of 6-7, 7 ppg, 2.7 rebound per game Stat, bench duds at the lower community college, etc, levels that glorified walk ons, end of bench, Rohosy(Walk On, end of bench), Ben Oleson types, that waste of scholly spots, that transforming WSU into a Big Sky, University of Idaho level bball program, that get pummeled in WCC.

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you. But what community college player are you referencing that Riley has signed?

 

[mikalalas]

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you. But what community college player are you referencing that Riley has signed?

The one at Quinapiac(Too long, hard to remember how to spell), college, either a community college, in the NWAAC, that is a admittedly great college, athletically, in bball, just like BBCC, Wenatchee Comm College, Walla Walla, Clackamas, etc.

The player at the community college(can't remember his name), is 6-7 tall, and ONLY scored about 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game, and was a bench player, at, on, the NWAAC, community college LOWER LEVEL, and shot 37% from 3.

And some here were saying how awesome of a get, the player, recruit was.

Before Riley got Okafor, etc, I thought sheesh, what's next, get a bench player from Palouse Garfield, maybe Tekoa, etc, that at the end of the Tekoa highschool bench, that only scores 3 ppg, 1 rebound, for a ENCORE, waste of a scholly spot, etc.

Players at the lower levels, whether Highschool, GSL, JC, community college, Whitworth, etc, if they score 40 to 60 to 80 points per game, studs, Statwise, starters, etc, USUALLY do well at the higher levels, but even they as exceptions, sometimes struggle to make DIFFICULT transition, at HIGHER, HIGHEST levels, etc, example Darling who scored 60 in the GSL.

Players who sit on bench, not doing much statistically, etc, AT THE LOWER, LOWEST LEVELS, etc, USUALLY do not do well at higher levels, except if they are late bloomers, under the radar, etc, and have somebody like Dick Bennet, Tony, etc, helping them to be better then the players that nobody else wants, wanted.

Raveling, Smith, Sampson, Bone, etc, all recruited 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars, 4 stars, 4.5 stars successfully at WSU, and not 1 star bench players with BAD STATS, at the lower levels, that would be preferred walk ons on Raveling, Smith, Sampson, Bone, etc, teams. Bone's problem was not being as good a coach overall, which got him fired, but Bone recruited 3.5 star, 4 star recruits, and then didn't do much with them after his first 1,2,3 season.

So a good coach can recruit good recruits, players at WSU, and Riley got Okafor, a good recruit, so shouldn't be recruiting 1 star bench sitters, that have bad stats from lower levels like Tekoa highschool, Community college, Whitworth, evergreen state college, etc.

More Okafor, Cowart, Price, less 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game BENCH sitters at the lower levels.

Devonte Daniel's scored 24 points per game against some of Seattle's better, best competition, before Bone recruited him, and Devonte Daniel's didn't do much at WSU, a higher level. To be fair some of that was on Bone, and his coaching staff.

Can you imagine how bad the Ken Bone years would have been if he had gone after, gotten 2.7 rebounds per game, 1 stars, 7 ppg, BENCH SITTERS, BAD STATTERS from Seattle high schools, instead of SEATTLE HIGHSCHOOL, LOWER LEVEL STUDS, Devonte Daniels, Reggie Moore, etc, starters, 2.5 star, 3 star, 3.5 star, 4 star recruits, like Riley getting a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game, 37% from 3, BENCH PLAYER, recruit, from the lower levels, like community colleges?

Only getting 7 to 9 to 11 to 13 wins in the WCC, here WSU, fans, we come. Thanks Ann, Chun, Schultz, Riley. More BAD Statters, BENCH players from the lower levels please, instead of GOOD STATTERS, STARTERS at the lower levels please, NOT.

More Okafor, Cowart, Price, LeJuan Watts please, less, no bad sttatters, benchers from the lower levels please.

 

[Coug1990]

My opinion is that you are way overthinking this. The MAAC is in no way a community college level league. Quinnipiac won the league championship, so they are not a bad team. Quinnipiac was also a senior and junior dominated team. To expect him to come in and start as a freshman over established players is not realistic. In points per minute, he was second on the team and this was as a freshman.

I have no idea if he will be any good in a Cougar uniform. If he isn't, he enters the portal next year and Riley recruits someone else.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you. But what community college player are you referencing that Riley has signed?

There isn't one. Mik is just rambling as usual. I will agree with him that Rohosy and Oleson were stiffs because they sat the bench in favor of those losers we trotted out there last year. Forget their names now. Rice, Wells, Jones, Cluff, Watts, Chineleway (sp?) etc. ? Something like that

 

[Loyal Coug1]

My opinion is that you are way overthinking this. The MAAC is in no way a community college level league. Quinnipiac won the league championship, so they are not a bad team. Quinnipiac was also a senior and junior dominated team. To expect him to come in and start as a freshman over established players is not realistic. In points per minute, he was second on the team and this was as a freshman.

I have no idea if he will be any good in a Cougar uniform. If he isn't, he enters the portal next year and Riley recruits someone else.

Can't you read? Quinnipiac is in the NWAC, not the MAAC. I watched them smoke Big Bend CC last season. Took Spokane CC to the wire.

 

[jourdand]

Aden had two injury filled years at WSU but still averaged 12 plus and 13 plus points per game not 7,8 or 9 but hey facts don’t really matter do they?

Also Mik why are you so down on Erikstrup(sp) and so high Watts? Both played for EWU and both had very comparable stats, Erikstrup scored more points started more games and is listed as 5 inches taller.

 

[triscuit one]

IMO all of Riley's recruits have been quality recruits and from this laymen perspective not much different Smith's. Especially considering the situation. Hoping we can still get that "go to player" as presently we seem to have a team full of roll players.

Really don't understand the Vavers hate compared to the excitement for Watts. Both played as freshman for similarly rated teams (EWU net 142 to Quinnipiac net 160). MAAC and Big Sky are similarly rated conference and both teams won their conferences regular season title but had disappointing post season. Both player played a key role for thier teams as freshman and stats and minutes play were not that much different. Different players though. Watts is more of a tweener Swiss army knife and Vavers a sharp shooter. I think they compliment each other and along with Isaiah Watt form a trio of 24-25 sophomores that will be fun to watch.

 

[SaveFerris]

IMO all of Riley's recruits have been quality recruits and from this laymen perspective not much different Smith's. Especially considering the situation. Hoping we can still get that "go to player" as presently we seem to have a team full of roll players.

Really don't understand the Vavers hate compared to the excitement for Watts. Both played as freshman for similarly rated teams (EWU net 142 to Quinnipiac net 160). MAAC and Big Sky are similarly rated conference and both teams won their conferences regular season title but had disappointing post season. Both player played a key role for thier teams as freshman and stats and minutes play were not that much different. Different players though. Watts is more of a tweener Swiss army knife and Vavers a sharp shooter. I think they compliment each other and along with Isaiah Watt form a trio of 24-25 sophomores that will be fun to watch.

There are probably better comps, but Vavers shooting reminded me of Moses Wood (dub). A bit different overall as players with Wood seeming more athletic with longer levers and able to take the 4. Still, similar freshman minutes and shooting stats. Vavers averaged under 18 minutes per game and shot a respectable 37% from 3. Even though his 2FG% is low (43%), he still had an eFG% over 50%. Need more than shooting, but you can never have enough of it.

Good points on comparison to Smith's recruiting. Vavers is a good compliment to LeJuan Watts and Isaiah Watts. All 3 (plus Wynott/Wilson) hopefully are rotation guys this year which means Riley still has some work to do. It's "only" May.

 

[mikalalas]

There are probably better comps, but Vavers shooting reminded me of Moses Wood (dub). A bit different overall as players with Wood seeming more athletic with longer levers and able to take the 4. Still, similar freshman minutes and shooting stats. Vavers averaged under 18 minutes per game and shot a respectable 37% from 3. Even though his 2FG% is low (43%), he still had an eFG% over 50%. Need more than shooting, but you can never have enough of it.

Good points on comparison to Smith's recruiting. Vavers is a good compliment to LeJuan Watts and Isaiah Watts. All 3 (plus Wynott/Wilson) hopefully are rotation guys this year which means Riley still has some work to do. It's "only" May.

Except for Smith's 1st year, , maybe even second year, but probably not Smith's second year, Riley's recruiting hasn't been as good as Smith's recruits.

Smith recruited 3.5 stars, 4 stars, 4.5 stars, and his recruits were USUALLY starters at the lower levels, or 6th men off bench, that played a lot of minutes, score a lot more then only 7 points at the lower levels(HS, JC, community colleges, D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, MAAC, Big West, WAC, C-USA, AAC, etc, lower then PAC 12 levels.

Only Price about equal to Smith's early 1st, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and only Okafor better then Smith's 1st season, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and almost, about equal to 3rd year Smith's recruits, and not as good as Smith's BEST recruits.

As far as Vaver's, there are 2 possibilities, either he did ok, good scoring only about 7 points in 18 minutes because he was buried behind a team full of STUDS ahead, in front of him, OR OR, he WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET MORE THEN 18 MINUTES, only put up 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds..

And while 7 ppg is ok in 18 minutes at the, a LOWER LEVEL place, league, lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, It's still not high enough, good enough, etc.

(Yes there are players that are lower scorers, get less minutes, etc, but getting them is a exception, and usually they are specialty player(Exceptional, Excellent defense, great rebounder(7 to 10 to 13+), great 3 point shooter(50% not 37%, even tho 37% good), 10 assist per game, 7 steals per game, Rim Protector, 7 blocks a game, ,etc, and usually they are 7 footers, TALL, BIG, etc)

Do most PAC 12, MWC, WCC, Midmajor, Power Conference, etc, coaches get a HS kid that scores 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in 18 minutes on a GSL, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A team?

NO, they instead get the HS kid that averaging 25+ points, or 7 to 10 to 13 rebounds per game, scores 60 points in a game, gets 23 rebounds in a game, etc.

Do they grab the kid at a community college that score 7 in 18 minutes? NO they get the player that Score 14 to 16 to 18+, or get 6 to 8 to 10 rebounds in a game instead of only getting 1,2,3 rebounds.

Do they get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in a game in 18 minutes from D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, WAC, Big West, MAAC, etc, or do they get a 13 to 15 to 17+ ppg, 8 to 10 to 12 rebounds per game player, transfer?

In GENERAL, USUALLY, kids, players, transfers, etc, at the LOWER LEVEL places, leagues, conferences, etc, or at least lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, that only score 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 ppg, or only get 1,2,3 rebounds per game, or have LOW, BAD STATS, etc, and have low minutes, that are bench players, etc, USUALLY DO NOT DO WELL OR AS WELL OR HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY MAKING THE TRANSITION, PLAYING WELL AT THE HIGHER LEVELS, AND ARE USUALLY END OF BENCH, PREFERRED WALK ON PLAYERS AT THE HIGHER LEVELS.

Did Smith get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game in 18 minutes off the bench from University of Idaho, or did he instead get Isaac Jones that was scoring a LOT OF POINTS, GOOD STATS as a STARTER at the LOWER LEVEL, at least lower then WCC, MWC, PAC 12, etc, level University of Idaho?

Also getting a player that has GREAT STATS, whether scoring, rebounds, etc, at the lower levels is the NORM, not the exception.

Vavers is worthy of a PREFERRED WALK ON, OR if have a leftover scholly, and can afford to give it to a player like Vavers, then that ok, as need roleplayer, bench players, scout team players, scrubs players, etc, at even the higher levels.

Vavers is a D2, Whitworth, Big Sky level player that probably would get a lot of minutes, score a lot at the lower levels eventually.

If he does do well at WSU, it would probably be like Lodwick, in his redshirt Junior, Senior, 5th year senior, 6th year senior year,if he were to even stay that long, and not transfer portal down to a lower level because of lack of minutes, LACK of GOOD STATS, etc.

 

[triscuit one]

There are probably better comps, but Vavers shooting reminded me of Moses Wood (dub). A bit different overall as players with Wood seeming more athletic with longer levers and able to take the 4. Still, similar freshman minutes and shooting stats. Vavers averaged under 18 minutes per game and shot a respectable 37% from 3. Even though his 2FG% is low (43%), he still had an eFG% over 50%. Need more than shooting, but you can never have enough of it.

Good points on comparison to Smith's recruiting. Vavers is a good compliment to LeJuan Watts and Isaiah Watts. All 3 (plus Wynott/Wilson) hopefully are rotation guys this year which means Riley still has some work to do. It's "only" May.

Moses Woods looks like a good comp.

Yes it's only May and maybe Coward signs and/or Wells come back. We really need a 1/PG/CG to handle the ball as the only one on the roster presently might be Isaiah. Front court looks fine and like it's make up.

 

[jourdand]

Except for Smith's 1st year, , maybe even second year, but probably not Smith's second year, Riley's recruiting hasn't been as good as Smith's recruits.

Smith recruited 3.5 stars, 4 stars, 4.5 stars, and his recruits were USUALLY starters at the lower levels, or 6th men off bench, that played a lot of minutes, score a lot more then only 7 points at the lower levels(HS, JC, community colleges, D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, MAAC, Big West, WAC, C-USA, AAC, etc, lower then PAC 12 levels.

Only Price about equal to Smith's early 1st, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and only Okafor better then Smith's 1st season, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and almost, about equal to 3rd year Smith's recruits, and not as good as Smith's BEST recruits.

As far as Vaver's, there are 2 possibilities, either he did ok, good scoring only about 7 points in 18 minutes because he was buried behind a team full of STUDS ahead, in front of him, OR OR, he WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET MORE THEN 18 MINUTES, only put up 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds..

And while 7 ppg is ok in 18 minutes at the, a LOWER LEVEL place, league, lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, It's still not high enough, good enough, etc.

(Yes there are players that are lower scorers, get less minutes, etc, but getting them is a exception, and usually they are specialty player(Exceptional, Excellent defense, great rebounder(7 to 10 to 13+), great 3 point shooter(50% not 37%, even tho 37% good), 10 assist per game, 7 steals per game, Rim Protector, 7 blocks a game, ,etc, and usually they are 7 footers, TALL, BIG, etc)

Do most PAC 12, MWC, WCC, Midmajor, Power Conference, etc, coaches get a HS kid that scores 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in 18 minutes on a GSL, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A team?

NO, they instead get the HS kid that averaging 25+ points, or 7 to 10 to 13 rebounds per game, scores 60 points in a game, gets 23 rebounds in a game, etc.

Do they grab the kid at a community college that score 7 in 18 minutes? NO they get the player that Score 14 to 16 to 18+, or get 6 to 8 to 10 rebounds in a game instead of only getting 1,2,3 rebounds.

Do they get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in a game in 18 minutes from D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, WAC, Big West, MAAC, etc, or do they get a 13 to 15 to 17+ ppg, 8 to 10 to 12 rebounds per game player, transfer?

In GENERAL, USUALLY, kids, players, transfers, etc, at the LOWER LEVEL places, leagues, conferences, etc, or at least lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, that only score 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 ppg, or only get 1,2,3 rebounds per game, or have LOW, BAD STATS, etc, and have low minutes, that are bench players, etc, USUALLY DO NOT DO WELL OR AS WELL OR HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY MAKING THE TRANSITION, PLAYING WELL AT THE HIGHER LEVELS, AND ARE USUALLY END OF BENCH, PREFERRED WALK ON PLAYERS AT THE HIGHER LEVELS.

Did Smith get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game in 18 minutes off the bench from University of Idaho, or did he instead get Isaac Jones that was scoring a LOT OF POINTS, GOOD STATS as a STARTER at the LOWER LEVEL, at least lower then WCC, MWC, PAC 12, etc, level University of Idaho?

Also getting a player that has GREAT STATS, whether scoring, rebounds, etc, at the lower levels is the NORM, not the exception.

Vavers is worthy of a PREFERRED WALK ON, OR if have a leftover scholly, and can afford to give it to a player like Vavers, then that ok, as need roleplayer, bench players, scout team players, scrubs players, etc, at even the higher levels.

Vavers is a D2, Whitworth, Big Sky level player that probably would get a lot of minutes, score a lot at the lower levels eventually.

If he does do well at WSU, it would probably be like Lodwick, in his redshirt Junior, Senior, 5th year senior, 6th year senior year,if he were to even stay that long, and not transfer portal down to a lower level because of lack of minutes, LACK of GOOD STATS, etc.

Riley has not signed one JC player, he has not signed one D-2 player and he certainly hasn’t signed a low level high school player. it would be great if you could at least get some semblance of the facts correct before you ramble on about what you clearly know nothing about.
Riley has done exactly what Smith did in his first year, they have both brought in players that they were obviously recruiting to their former team. It is only fair to compare Riley to Smith’s first year since this is his first year. I would say his recruits thus far have been better or at least equal to Smith’s first year.
It should also be noted that Riley is recruiting for a lower tier conference than the PAC12 which means WSU has less drawing power than it did when it was in a power conference. It should also allow for more success with potentially lower level players. I personally think WSU is sitting in a good position to compete in the WCC. I doubt we break the top two hold that Saint Mary’s and GU have on the conference but third place is very doable.

 

[Coug90]

My opinion is that you are way overthinking this. The MAAC is in no way a community college level league. Quinnipiac won the league championship, so they are not a bad team. Quinnipiac was also a senior and junior dominated team. To expect him to come in and start as a freshman over established players is not realistic. In points per minute, he was second on the team and this was as a freshman.

I have no idea if he will be any good in a Cougar uniform. If he isn't, he enters the portal next year and Riley recruits someone else.

Are they in the same league as UIPUI? Outside of WSU that’s my favorite basketball team.

 

[7ICoug]

I think that there are already two more signed.

 

[Coug1990]

There are probably better comps, but Vavers shooting reminded me of Moses Wood (dub). A bit different overall as players with Wood seeming more athletic with longer levers and able to take the 4. Still, similar freshman minutes and shooting stats. Vavers averaged under 18 minutes per game and shot a respectable 37% from 3. Even though his 2FG% is low (43%), he still had an eFG% over 50%. Need more than shooting, but you can never have enough of it.

Good points on comparison to Smith's recruiting. Vavers is a good compliment to LeJuan Watts and Isaiah Watts. All 3 (plus Wynott/Wilson) hopefully are rotation guys this year which means Riley still has some work to do. It's "only" May.

The thing about comparing Wood and Vavers athleticism is that last year was Wood's 6th year removed from high school compared to Vavers' second (he attended prep school). I know for myself, I was a much better athlete my 4th year at WSU versus my 1st, as I put on 25-30 pounds of muscle as my body matured. I was faster, stronger, moved better, etc.

I think it is a decent comparison. I think Vavers' will continue to improve as Wood's did. Woods never averaged double digits unit his fourth year after high school. I didn't realize until I looked that the uw was Wood's fourth school (Tulane, UNLV, Portland, and the uw).

Vavers' offensive rating last year was 110.8. Yes, even is a lesser league that is impressive.

 

[Coug1990]

Riley has not signed one JC player, he has not signed one D-2 player and he certainly hasn’t signed a low level high school player. it would be great if you could at least get some semblance of the facts correct before you ramble on about what you clearly know nothing about.
Riley has done exactly what Smith did in his first year, they have both brought in players that they were obviously recruiting to their former team. It is only fair to compare Riley to Smith’s first year since this is his first year. I would say his recruits thus far have been better or at least equal to Smith’s first year.
It should also be noted that Riley is recruiting for a lower tier conference than the PAC12 which means WSU has less drawing power than it did when it was in a power conference. It should also allow for more success with potentially lower level players. I personally think WSU is sitting in a good position to compete in the WCC. I doubt we break the top two hold that Saint Mary’s and GU have on the conference but third place is very doable.

So far, in their first year at WSU, Riley is blowing Smith out of the water regarding recruiting. Isaac Bonton, Volodymyr Markovetskyy, Ryan Rapp, Noah Williams, Daron Henson, and DJ Rodman was Smith's first class. Bonton is clearly the best player. Williams was a mixed bag. Rodman was OK, but easily replaceable. The rest were forgettable. There are several players that Riley has brought in that will be better than every player except Bonton. I agree, WSU is in a good position to compete in the WCC.

 

[Coug1990]

Except for Smith's 1st year, , maybe even second year, but probably not Smith's second year, Riley's recruiting hasn't been as good as Smith's recruits.

Smith recruited 3.5 stars, 4 stars, 4.5 stars, and his recruits were USUALLY starters at the lower levels, or 6th men off bench, that played a lot of minutes, score a lot more then only 7 points at the lower levels(HS, JC, community colleges, D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, MAAC, Big West, WAC, C-USA, AAC, etc, lower then PAC 12 levels.

Only Price about equal to Smith's early 1st, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and only Okafor better then Smith's 1st season, maybe even 2nd year recruits, and almost, about equal to 3rd year Smith's recruits, and not as good as Smith's BEST recruits.

As far as Vaver's, there are 2 possibilities, either he did ok, good scoring only about 7 points in 18 minutes because he was buried behind a team full of STUDS ahead, in front of him, OR OR, he WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET MORE THEN 18 MINUTES, only put up 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds..

And while 7 ppg is ok in 18 minutes at the, a LOWER LEVEL place, league, lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, It's still not high enough, good enough, etc.

(Yes there are players that are lower scorers, get less minutes, etc, but getting them is a exception, and usually they are specialty player(Exceptional, Excellent defense, great rebounder(7 to 10 to 13+), great 3 point shooter(50% not 37%, even tho 37% good), 10 assist per game, 7 steals per game, Rim Protector, 7 blocks a game, ,etc, and usually they are 7 footers, TALL, BIG, etc)

Do most PAC 12, MWC, WCC, Midmajor, Power Conference, etc, coaches get a HS kid that scores 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in 18 minutes on a GSL, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A team?

NO, they instead get the HS kid that averaging 25+ points, or 7 to 10 to 13 rebounds per game, scores 60 points in a game, gets 23 rebounds in a game, etc.

Do they grab the kid at a community college that score 7 in 18 minutes? NO they get the player that Score 14 to 16 to 18+, or get 6 to 8 to 10 rebounds in a game instead of only getting 1,2,3 rebounds.

Do they get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds in a game in 18 minutes from D2, Whitworth, Big Sky, WAC, Big West, MAAC, etc, or do they get a 13 to 15 to 17+ ppg, 8 to 10 to 12 rebounds per game player, transfer?

In GENERAL, USUALLY, kids, players, transfers, etc, at the LOWER LEVEL places, leagues, conferences, etc, or at least lower then PAC 12, WCC, MWC, etc, that only score 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 ppg, or only get 1,2,3 rebounds per game, or have LOW, BAD STATS, etc, and have low minutes, that are bench players, etc, USUALLY DO NOT DO WELL OR AS WELL OR HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY MAKING THE TRANSITION, PLAYING WELL AT THE HIGHER LEVELS, AND ARE USUALLY END OF BENCH, PREFERRED WALK ON PLAYERS AT THE HIGHER LEVELS.

Did Smith get a 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds per game in 18 minutes off the bench from University of Idaho, or did he instead get Isaac Jones that was scoring a LOT OF POINTS, GOOD STATS as a STARTER at the LOWER LEVEL, at least lower then WCC, MWC, PAC 12, etc, level University of Idaho?

Also getting a player that has GREAT STATS, whether scoring, rebounds, etc, at the lower levels is the NORM, not the exception.

Vavers is worthy of a PREFERRED WALK ON, OR if have a leftover scholly, and can afford to give it to a player like Vavers, then that ok, as need roleplayer, bench players, scout team players, scrubs players, etc, at even the higher levels.

Vavers is a D2, Whitworth, Big Sky level player that probably would get a lot of minutes, score a lot at the lower levels eventually.

If he does do well at WSU, it would probably be like Lodwick, in his redshirt Junior, Senior, 5th year senior, 6th year senior year,if he were to even stay that long, and not transfer portal down to a lower level because of lack of minutes, LACK of GOOD STATS, etc.

How is Vavers a D2 player when he has already played in D1? Steele Venters averaged 3.6 ppg as a freshman at Idaho. DJ Rodman averaged 1.7 ppg as a freshman. Daven Harmeling averaged 2.8 ppg as a freshman. Isaac Bonton averaged 7.8 ppg at Montana State as a freshman at a similar conference as Vavers. At WSU, Bonton averaged 15.3 and 17.7.

 

[SaveFerris]

Moses Woods looks like a good comp.

Yes it's only May and maybe Coward signs and/or Wells come back. We really need a 1/PG/CG to handle the ball as the only one on the roster presently might be Isaiah. Front court looks fine and like it's make up.

I think that there are already two more signed.

Hoping Coward and a PG are the 2. Both are needs with the last 4 (?) spots.

 

[mikalalas]

How is Vavers a D2 player when he has already played in D1? Steele Venters averaged 3.6 ppg as a freshman at Idaho. DJ Rodman averaged 1.7 ppg as a freshman. Daven Harmeling averaged 2.8 ppg as a freshman. Isaac Bonton averaged 7.8 ppg at Montana State as a freshman at a similar conference as Vavers. At WSU, Bonton averaged 15.3 and 17.7.

The difference is that USUALLY coaches don't get the 2 to 4 to 6, etc ppg freshman after their freshman year. They wait until IF they become either a starter, situational starter, 6th man off bench, score about 11, 12, 13+ ppg, or 3 to 5 to 7 blocks per game, or 3 to 5 to 7 assist per game, or 3 to 5 to 7 steals per game, or 6 to 8 to 10+ rebounds per games, at the lower levels, in other words GREAT STATS, THEN recruit, get them.

Most coaches, scouts, recruiters, etc, USUALLY don't get a recruit, even if just a freshman, if they have BAD, LOW, CRAPPY, ETC, STATS.

Yes a 2 to 4 to 6 ppg, 1,2 rebounds, 13 to 17 minutes off the bench players sometimes blow up their sophomore, junior, etc, years, seasons, and sometimes do well at the higher levels, but they are the exceptions to the norm.

And just because WSU has had some freshman that had bad stats, that later did ok, well, good, etc, at WSU, does not mean that it's normal for freshman with lower stats, at lower levels to later do well at the higher level, and be exceptions, and that it's not risky, and that future low Stat at lower level freshman might do well.

That's very risky, Gambly to get a low Stat at lower level freshman, etc.

Either you grab, recruit, get, etc, about a 8,9,10,11,12, etc, ppg, or about a 5,6,7,8,9,10 rebound per game, or about a 3, 4, 5, assist per game, or about a 2,3,4 steals per game, Good STATS freshman, after the freshman season over at the lower levels, or you wait until their sophomore, junior year, and if they GOOD, higher, etc, stats, get them then, and if they have lower, bad stats at lower levels as a freshman, then pass on them.

If Isaac Jones had only scored 7 ppg, 2.7 rebounds, as a freshman at WVC, community college, Smith wouldn't have recruited taken him, after his freshman season over.

BETTER STATS at the lower levels, whether freshman, sophomore, Junior, etc, USUALLY equals better chance to do well at higher level, then those that got lower stats at lower levels.

A lower level player that gets GREAT STATS, at lower level USUALLY has a better chance at doing well at higher level then a player with lower, worse stats at the lower level.

There are exceptions to that, but that's basically logically, factually, usually true, etc.

 

[SaveFerris]

The thing about comparing Wood and Vavers athleticism is that last year was Wood's 6th year removed from high school compared to Vavers' second (he attended prep school). I know for myself, I was a much better athlete my 4th year at WSU versus my 1st, as I put on 25-30 pounds of muscle as my body matured. I was faster, stronger, moved better, etc.

I think it is a decent comparison. I think Vavers' will continue to improve as Wood's did. Woods never averaged double digits unit his fourth year after high school. I didn't realize until I looked that the uw was Wood's fourth school (Tulane, UNLV, Portland, and the uw).

Vavers' offensive rating last year was 110.8. Yes, even is a lesser league that is impressive.

When I looked at their freshman stats I'm sure I was guilty of some confirmation bias. They were eerily close although Vavers was better from the line (86% to 78%). Comps are pretty tough. Aljaz Kunc perhaps is a better positional comp, but still different types of players.

I took a look at the MAAC Semi's against St. Peter's. Vavers got exposed baseline once but for the most part showed enough quickness to stay in front of smaller guards when they were man.

Solid looking player that can shoot the 3 and has good perimeter length. Also, I think Riley seems to do a nice job of projecting. Time will tell though.

 

[Glad Cougar]

How is Vavers a D2 player when he has already played in D1? Steele Venters averaged 3.6 ppg as a freshman at Idaho. DJ Rodman averaged 1.7 ppg as a freshman. Daven Harmeling averaged 2.8 ppg as a freshman. Isaac Bonton averaged 7.8 ppg at Montana State as a freshman at a similar conference as Vavers. At WSU, Bonton averaged 15.3 and 17.7.

Not to mention Ruben Chinleyu and Isaiah Watts averaging 4.7 ppg and 3.7 ppg respectively as D-1 freshmen. Quinnipiac is not well known on the west coast, but the D-1 basketball program has been pretty solid in recent years, including 24 wins last year and a post season tournament (CBI) with Vavers as a contributing freshman. I have no problem with him as a recruit.

Glad Cougar

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The difference is that USUALLY coaches don't get the 2 to 4 to 6, etc ppg freshman after their freshman year. They wait until IF they become either a starter, situational starter, 6th man off bench, score about 11, 12, 13+ ppg, or 3 to 5 to 7 blocks per game,

There are exceptions to that, but that's basically logically, factually, usually true, etc.

Yeah there are a shitload of available quality players who averaged 7 blocks per game. I'll make a list:

List: -0-

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Are they in the same league as UIPUI? Outside of WSU that’s my favorite basketball team.

Gee 90, you could actually find that out yourself in about 3 clicks. About as long as it takes to log in here and ask the question.

UIPUI is in the Horizon League, not the MAAC. You are welcome.

 

[mikalalas]

Yeah there are a shitload of available quality players who averaged 7 blocks per game. I'll make a list:

List: -0-

Ok true, point made. I was just trying to make the point, that points per game scored was, is not the only good statistical measurement if high enough(ABOUT, AROUND, 11+ ppg), and that things like ABOUT, AROUND SOMETHING like 7 blocks per game, + or - 1 or 2 or maybe 3, etc, is just as good, viable, etc, as 11+ points a game, or 6,7,8,9 rebounds a game.

IF you didn't have a blocks specialist, Rim Protector, and IF you saw a player with ABOUT 7 blocks, a game, then you wouldn't care if the player, recruit, had 11+ ppg, and even if player had only 1 ppg, you would still be interested in the player because if player had something like ABOUT 7 blocks per game.

Your NITPICKING, STICKLERIZING AGAIN, and .MISSING the VALID point that was made.

 

[mikalalas]

Yeah there are a shitload of available quality players who averaged 7 blocks per game. I'll make a list:

List: -0-

You don't understand what a range is, do you?

And you don't understand why a RANGE, ARRAY, ETC, AND why the words ABOUT, AROUND, used, and don't understand what or why a close APPROXIMATE is, an or why used. And you don't understand why someone would say something like ABOUT 1 to 3 to 5. And if some either says 1 to 3 to 5, or ABOUT 1 to 3 to 5, and even if 1,,2,3, etc, right, or close to right, etc, and 5 is either wrong, or too low, or too high, etc, you seem to immediately either say something like, an or highlight, emphasize, an or call attention to the 5, wrong number, etc, in the range, array, etc, and that's its wrong, if it's wrong, and ignore, etc, the 1, 3, 1,2,3, etc, numbers in the range, array, that are right, if it's right, etc, and if it's making a higher point, etc, you don't see, miss the point, and seemingly immediately, jump, go right, immediately to the too high, too low, wrong, etc, number in the range, array, and don't see, ignore everything else, and NITPICK, STICKLERIZE, TROLL about it.

It seems as if you might, probably enjoy doing that.

Maybe that's wrong. Maybe your not aware that you do that, maybe that's not what your intention is, maybe you just do it without intention, and have no intention, and just do it.

 

[mikalalas]

Not to mention Ruben Chinleyu and Isaiah Watts averaging 4.7 ppg and 3.7 ppg respectively as D-1 freshmen. Quinnipiac is not well known on the west coast, but the D-1 basketball program has been pretty solid in recent years, including 24 wins last year and a post season tournament (CBI) with Vavers as a contributing freshman. I have no problem with him as a recruit.

Glad Cougar

When Ruben was recruited from NBA Global Academy Africa, while a good, awesome, high competition level, that despite that, generally either is, or is generally considered a LOWER LEVEL then P5, PAC 12, etc, USA supposedly higher level college basketball.

Did Ruben have higher or lower stats at that LOWER LEVEL then P5? He did. He may have been technically raw, and might have had lower scoring, but his rebounding, blocks, etc, other stats were pretty good. If Ruben had had stats like 6 ppg, 2 rebounds per game, 1/2 block per game, 1/2 steal per game, etc, in about 13 to 15 to 17 minutes off the bench, instead of a line like ABOUT 8 TO 10 TO 12 PPG, 6,7,8,9 REBOUNDS PER GAME, 1,2,3 BLOCKS PER GAME, 1,2 STEALS PER GAME, ETC, IN ABOUT 18 TO 20 TO 22+ MINUTES PER GAME, ETC, WOULD SMITH HAVE STILL BEEN INTERESTED, STILL RECRUITED him? HELL NO. WHY? Because his STATS would have been bad, at that supposedly lower level then P5, PAC 12, etc.

Ruben was raw, and despite that, was blocking lots of shots, getting lots of rebounds, dunking a lot, dunking over defenders a lot, and jumping out of gym, court,(figuratively), etc, a lot, and because of that he had AWESOME block shot, rebound stats.

Yes he didn't do as well at a higher P5 level, his FRESHMAN year, But that's a exception, not the norm,

And were recruiters at higher level places like Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Blue Bloods trying to recruit him, after his freshman year, after he got lower stats at a higher level then in Africa, and lower stats, at a lower level then the blue blood level?

No they didn't recruit him? Why? because usually a HIGHER LEVEL coach, recruiter, usually doesn't recruit a recruit, player, that get lower stats at a lower level then the higher level.

If Ruben had scored 16 ppg, 10 rebounds per game, 2 blocks per game, 2 steals per game, etc, at WSU, Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, would have probably recruited him.

But since Ruben had lower stats, at a lower level then their level, they didn't recruit him. If they had, Ruben probably would have gone to them, that higher level.

Yeah sure as a exception, once in a rare while, the blue bloods will get a low Stat at a lower level, and the low Stat will once in a rare while do better at their higher level, but that is a exception, not the norm.

It's the norm for a higher level to recruit players from a lower level that has good stats. Duke type recruiting a good Stat from PAC 12, etc, PAC 12 recruiting a good Stat from AAC, MWC, WCC. AAC, MWC, WCC, recruiting a good Stat, from Big Sky, etc. Big Sky recruiting a good Stat from Whitworth, CWU, CWU, Whitworth recruiting a good Stat from a community college, community college recruiting a good Stat from HS, etc.

It's USUALLY the PEKING ORDER, USUALLY the way it's done.

Yeah there are exceptions, and yeah those exceptions on a rare occasion do well at a higher level.

Usually the exception is if a coach can't successfully recruit, beat out other higher level recruiters, etc, for the good Stat at the lower level then the higher level.

Continued into another post.

 

[mikalalas]

When Ruben was recruited from NBA Global Academy Africa, while a good, awesome, high competition level, that despite that, generally either is, or is generally considered a LOWER LEVEL then P5, PAC 12, etc, USA supposedly higher level college basketball.

Did Ruben have higher or lower stats at that LOWER LEVEL then P5? He did. He may have been technically raw, and might have had lower scoring, but his rebounding, blocks, etc, other stats were pretty good. If Ruben had had stats like 6 ppg, 2 rebounds per game, 1/2 block per game, 1/2 steal per game, etc, in about 13 to 15 to 17 minutes off the bench, instead of a line like ABOUT 8 TO 10 TO 12 PPG, 6,7,8,9 REBOUNDS PER GAME, 1,2,3 BLOCKS PER GAME, 1,2 STEALS PER GAME, ETC, IN ABOUT 18 TO 20 TO 22+ MINUTES PER GAME, ETC, WOULD SMITH HAVE STILL BEEN INTERESTED, STILL RECRUITED him? HELL NO. WHY? Because his STATS would have been bad, at that supposedly lower level then P5, PAC 12, etc.

Ruben was raw, and despite that, was blocking lots of shots, getting lots of rebounds, dunking a lot, dunking over defenders a lot, and jumping out of gym, court,(figuratively), etc, a lot, and because of that he had AWESOME block shot, rebound stats.

Yes he didn't do as well at a higher P5 level, his FRESHMAN year, But that's a exception, not the norm,

And were recruiters at higher level places like Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Blue Bloods trying to recruit him, after his freshman year, after he got lower stats at a higher level then in Africa, and lower stats, at a lower level then the blue blood level?

No they didn't recruit him? Why? because usually a HIGHER LEVEL coach, recruiter, usually doesn't recruit a recruit, player, that get lower stats at a lower level then the higher level.

If Ruben had scored 16 ppg, 10 rebounds per game, 2 blocks per game, 2 steals per game, etc, at WSU, Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, would have probably recruited him.

But since Ruben had lower stats, at a lower level then their level, they didn't recruit him. If they had, Ruben probably would have gone to them, that higher level.

Yeah sure as a exception, once in a rare while, the blue bloods will get a low Stat at a lower level, and the low Stat will once in a rare while do better at their higher level, but that is a exception, not the norm.

It's the norm for a higher level to recruit players from a lower level that has good stats. Duke type recruiting a good Stat from PAC 12, etc, PAC 12 recruiting a good Stat from AAC, MWC, WCC. AAC, MWC, WCC, recruiting a good Stat, from Big Sky, etc. Big Sky recruiting a good Stat from Whitworth, CWU, CWU, Whitworth recruiting a good Stat from a community college, community college recruiting a good Stat from HS, etc.

It's USUALLY the PEKING ORDER, USUALLY the way it's done.

Yeah there are exceptions, and yeah those exceptions on a rare occasion do well at a higher level.

Usually the exception is if a coach can't successfully recruit, beat out other higher level recruiters, etc, for the good Stat at the lower level then the higher level.

Continued into another post.

Continued from last post.

Several WSU coaches, USUALLY have gotten good stats from lower HS, community college, JC, D2, Big Sky, WCC lower then P5, PAC 12, MWC, WSU, etc, level(s).

There are rare exceptions.

USUALLY WSU coaches USUALLY don't get low Stat at lower levels freshmen from the lower levels.

There are exceptions, and usually the exceptions usually don't do well at higher levels.

There are exceptions to that as well.

When JRUE Holiday was a one and done after ONLY ABOUT, AROUND 7.5 ppg, 3.5 rebounds per game, 2,3,4 assist per game, 2 steals per game as a higher level UCLA, but lower level then the NBA, was a EXCEPTION. AND A EXCEPTION that did well at, in the higher level NBA.

USUALLY the NBA does not draft draft lottery picks from the lower college level, that have LOW STATS like Jrue Holiday had at a lower the NBA level, lower level. And USUALLY IF IF the NBA does draft a LOW STAT, from the lower then NBA level, like a Jrue Holiday low Stat, USUALLY they don't do as well as those that had higher stats, and got drafted.

There are exceptions, but those exceptions are not the norm.

And even the weakest, weaker NBA, PAC 12, P5, MWC, etc, teams, like the WSU types, USUALLY recruit high stats over low stats, and USUALLY don't get, don't USUALLY get, recruit LOW STATS, at the lower levels.

There are exceptions, and those exceptions usually don't do as well at higher levels, and there are exceptions to that.

And if they do get a low Stat, USUALLY it's a low Stat player like ABOUT 7 foot 1, ABOUT 267 POUND Jim McIlvane, etc, from a equal or better level, etc.(Sonics got him from a equal or better level then the sonics at the time. He had bad stats, but had a fierce reputation as a fierce RIM PROTECTOR, that supposedly ate up space in the middle of lane, close to basket, that blocked a lot of shots. They thought that was more important then his LOW, BAD STATS, and not surprisingly HE SUCKED on the sonics team.)


Did Isiah Watts have bad stats at the lower highschool level? NO. IF Isiah Watts had had bad stats, at the lower HS, lower then College, WSU, PAC 12, etc, level, etc, would Smith have recruited him? NO, would most other coaches have recruited him? NO


Since Isiah Watts had lower, bad stats, at the college, WSU, freshman level, was he Isiah Watt recruited by a higher level? NO? Why not? Because he had low, bad stats his college, WSU freshman year, season, at the lower then higher level, lower level WSU.

Yes he Isiah Watts was another exception recruit, player that had good stats at a lower level then WSU, MWC, WCC, P5, PAC 12, etc, that did not have good stats during his college, WSU, P5, PAC 12, etc, freshman year, season, at a higher level.

One USUALLY shouldn't go by an exception. There are exceptions to that too.

Players that have bad stats usually don't do as well at the higher levels as those that have good, better stats, whether they are freshman, etc, and usually coaches don't recruit those that have lower stats at lower levels, even if they are only freshman, etc, except for exceptions.

There are exceptions, like competition levels, not being able to successfully recruit higher stats players, etc.


Continue into next post

 

[mikalalas]

Continued from last post.

Several WSU coaches, USUALLY have gotten good stats from lower HS, community college, JC, D2, Big Sky, WCC lower then P5, PAC 12, MWC, WSU, etc, level(s).

There are rare exceptions.

USUALLY WSU coaches USUALLY don't get low Stat at lower levels freshmen from the lower levels.

There are exceptions, and usually the exceptions usually don't do well at higher levels.

There are exceptions to that as well.

When JRUE Holiday was a one and done after ONLY ABOUT, AROUND 7.5 ppg, 3.5 rebounds per game, 2,3,4 assist per game, 2 steals per game as a higher level UCLA, but lower level then the NBA, was a EXCEPTION. AND A EXCEPTION that did well at, in the higher level NBA.

USUALLY the NBA does not draft draft lottery picks from the lower college level, that have LOW STATS like Jrue Holiday had at a lower the NBA level, lower level. And USUALLY IF IF the NBA does draft a LOW STAT, from the lower then NBA level, like a Jrue Holiday low Stat, USUALLY they don't do as well as those that had higher stats, and got drafted.

There are exceptions, but those exceptions are not the norm.

And even the weakest, weaker NBA, PAC 12, P5, MWC, etc, teams, like the WSU types, USUALLY recruit high stats over low stats, and USUALLY don't get, don't USUALLY get, recruit LOW STATS, at the lower levels.

There are exceptions, and those exceptions usually don't do as well at higher levels, and there are exceptions to that.

And if they do get a low Stat, USUALLY it's a low Stat player like ABOUT 7 foot 1, ABOUT 267 POUND Jim McIlvane, etc, from a equal or better level, etc.(Sonics got him from a equal or better level then the sonics at the time. He had bad stats, but had a fierce reputation as a fierce RIM PROTECTOR, that supposedly ate up space in the middle of lane, close to basket, that blocked a lot of shots. They thought that was more important then his LOW, BAD STATS, and not surprisingly HE SUCKED on the sonics team.)


Did Isiah Watts have bad stats at the lower highschool level? NO. IF Isiah Watts had had bad stats, at the lower HS, lower then College, WSU, PAC 12, etc, level, etc, would Smith have recruited him? NO, would most other coaches have recruited him? NO


Since Isiah Watts had lower, bad stats, at the college, WSU, freshman level, was he Isiah Watt recruited by a higher level? NO? Why not? Because he had low, bad stats his college, WSU freshman year, season, at the lower then higher level, lower level WSU.

Yes he Isiah Watts was another exception recruit, player that had good stats at a lower level then WSU, MWC, WCC, P5, PAC 12, etc, that did not have good stats during his college, WSU, P5, PAC 12, etc, freshman year, season, at a higher level.

One USUALLY shouldn't go by an exception. There are exceptions to that too.

Players that have bad stats usually don't do as well at the higher levels as those that have good, better stats, whether they are freshman, etc, and usually coaches don't recruit those that have lower stats at lower levels, even if they are only freshman, etc, except for exceptions.

There are exceptions, like competition levels, not being able to successfully recruit higher stats players, etc.


Continue into next post

Continued from last post


And before anybody says that WSU coaches don't, can't recruit, beat out others for higher stats players, etc, there have been PLENTY of SUCCESSFUL, even less, non successful WSU coaches, that have successfully recruited a lot of higher Stat players, recruits, from the lower levels, lower then WSU, MWC, WCC, P5, PAC 12, etc, levels.

The last WSU coach who did that was Kyle Smith, who was very successful at WSU.

Some here still think that in order for a WSU coach to be successful, they have to pull a Dick Bennet, and recruit lower level players that either have low stats, that nobody else wants, that are lower minutes players, recruits at the lower levels, that nobody else wants, and project them, develop them, help them shine by their Junior Season, after a low Stat, bad Stat, bad freshman m, etc, season, through the use of Dick Bennet Ball, etc, and then turn them into GOOD PLAYERS, RECRUITS, by their Junior year, through the use of DICK BENNET BALL.

Keeping in mind how bad WSU was when Dick Bennet took over the dumpstire fire, created by last coach.

Even if your dropping down a level to the WCC, MWC level. Even if you are losing whole team to NIL, Transfer Portal, because of Schultz, Chun, Ann, etc.

Smith built something awesome at WSU, and had built WSU into a Semi Quasi Semi Power, at the minimum.

WSU basketball was at the similar junction, fork in the road as WSU football was when Price won 3 straight 10 win seasons.

If V Lane Rawlins, AD had played the cards right, WSU probably would have built a truly special football semi blue bloodish level program over the next about 5 to 10 to 15 years, etc.

WSU basketball was at that 3 straight 10 win season like junction, fork.

All WSU, Schultz, Chun, and even Riley had to do is the following:
.
Kyle Smith wasn't wrong when he said he had built the program to the point, that if Jim Shaw, or Henderson, or a better coach then Riley had taken over program, some, more then only Isiah Watts, would have stayed, formed a core to build around. Yes some would have still left. But not as many.


But what was done was done, it is what it is.

Next.

Even if everyone but Isiah Watts, or Even if Isiah Watts were to leave, etc, Smith has built WSU basketball up in the last 5 years, that even if drop WSU basketball to WCC, MWC, etc, level, WSU would still be a GIGANTIC FISH, P5, PAC 12 LEVEL BASKETBALL PROGRAM AT THE WCC LEVEL, BECAUSE OF SMITH BUILDING WSU BASKETBALL UP, AND BECAUSE OF REPUTATION, ETC, that even a lesser then Jim Shaw, Henderson, etc, HC in Riley, etc, should be able to recruit 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars, 4 stars, etc, starters, situational starters, 6th men, etc, with GOOD STATS, from the lower then WSU, WCC, MWC, HS, Community College, D2, JC, Big Sky, WAC, Big West, MAAC, Sun Belt, etc, levels.

He shouldn't have to go get PROJECTS, and PROJECT, DEVELOP, LOW STAT BENCH PLAYERS, WHETHER FRESHMAN, ETC, FROM THE LOWER THEN WSU, WCC, MWC, ETC, HS, COMMUNITY COLLEGE, JC, BIG SKY, WAC, BIG WEST, MAAC, SUN BELT LEVELS, PLAYERS THAT USUALLY NOBODY ELSE, NO OTHER EQUAL OR HIGHER LEVEL HC, RECRUITER, SCOUT, ETC, WANTS, AS IF HE RILEY IS DICK BENNET, USING DICK BENNET BALL TO REBUILD AT WSU AFTER A LEN STEVENS, KEN BONE, ERNIE KENT, GRAHAM, ETC.

The reason why Smith had to Project, take some Projects, low Stat players, recruits, etc, whether Freshman, etc, his 1st year, etc, was BECAUSE HE WAS TAKING OVER, TRYING TO FIX ERNIE KENT'S DUMPSTER FIRE AT WSU.

By Smith's either 2nd, or 3rd year, he was building, recruiting GOOD STAT players, recruits, and recruiting, GETTING 3.5 STARS, 4 STARS, ETC, INSTEAD OF 1.5 STAR PROJECTS, THAT HAD LOWER STATS, ETC, AT LOWER LEVELS.

Is Riley taking over for a GRAHAM, STEVENS, KENT, ETC? If he was, I would be ok with him taking a LOW STAT AT LOWER LEVEL FRESHMAN ABOUT 17 MINUTES PER GAME BENCH PLAYER VAVER PROJECT. It would be understandable if Smith, Dick Bennet, Riley, etc, did that after a GRAHAM, STEVENS, KENT, ETC.

Schultz, Chun, Ann, etc, FCKING UP, and lose almost whole entire team for a season, doesn't have to overturn the REPUTATION SMITH BUILT. RAVELING, SAMPSON, SMITH, A GOOD HC, SHOULD STILL BE ABLE TO USE THAT GOOD REPUTATION, TO TALK, ETC, TO HIGHER STAT, HIGHER NUMBER OF MINUTES, WHETHER FRESHMAN, ETC, LOWER LEVEL PLAYER, RECRUIT, THAT OTHER BIG SKY, WAC, BIG WEST, MAAC, SUN BELT, WCC, MWC, ETC, PROGRAMS THAT AFTER THE BETTER STATS, MORE MINUTES, WHETHER FRESHMAN, ETC, AND BEAT OUT, GET THOSE PLAYERS, RECEUITS FROM THE HANDS, CLUTCHES OF OTHER BIG SKY, MWC, WCC, WAC, BIG WEST, MAAC, SUN BELT, ETC, PROGRAMS, BECAUSE OF THE GOOD REPUTATION, ETC, THAT SMITH BUILT.

Basically Smith had built it up so good, that even if WSU, drops down to WCC, MWC, etc, and almost everyone leaves, etc, that any decent coach should be able to spend 1,2 seasons RELOADING, with 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars, 4 stars, players that have GOOD STATS, at the LOWER LEVELS, that are not bench players, that don't have about 16 minutes, that are not PROJECTS, that don't have to be projected, that are not 1.5 star, 2 star, at the lower levels, whether freshman or not.

Yeah if Riley had gotten 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars, etc, instead of PROJECTS like Vaver, yeah the first 1,2 years of the RELOAD, would likely have been between 10 to 12 to 14 to 16 wins, but by year 2,3 the win total would probably be about 15 to 17 to 19 to 21 wins.

That's better then grabbing Vaver's REBUILDING, NOT RELOADING, ABD HAVING ABOUT 3 TO 5 TO 7 WINS THE FIRST 2 YEARS, THEN MAYBE 10 TO 15 WINS 3RD YEAR, 16,17,18 WINS 3RD YEAR, 19, 21 WINS 4TH OR 5TH YEAR. HMMM WHICH WAY IS LIKELY BETTER? IS THE BETTER WAY DOABLE? YES. BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT SMITH BUILT UP THE WSU BASKETBALL PROGRAM, JUST LIKE RAVELING, SAMPSON, PRICE(Football, 3 straight 10 win seasons, etc)

WSU is at a fork, junction in road because SMITH BUILT IT, just like the V Lane Rawlins, Price situation, WSU, Riley, etc, can either play their cards right, build something truly special, just like Doba, etc, could have done after Price, if had played cards right.

But so far WSU, Schultz, Chun, Ann, and Riley is probably playing cards wrong by recruiting PROJECTS, and thinking he has to try to REBUILD with PROJECTS, Vavers, instead of probably could RELOAD with 2 5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars, instead of 1.5 star, 2 star PROJECTS like Vavers.

I don't think Riley is as bad as Wulf was, but so far Schultz, Chun, Ann, Riley, either have pulled so far, or are currently pulling A DOBA in Basketball, at WSU.


End of post, no more continuing, etc.

 

[mikalalas]

DICK BENNET WAY = GETTING PLAYERS THAT NOBODY ELSE WANTS, PROJECTS, VAVER'S, ETC, DEVELOPPING THEM. THEM HAVING GOOD SOPHMORE, JUNIOR, SENIOR YEARS, AFTER 1,2 BAD LOSIMG SEASONS, THEN DOING GOOD.

KYLE SMITH WAY, THAT EVEN RILEY DID = Getting players like a Okafor, etc, that everybody else wants, making a great Sales Pitch about why they should come to WSU, instead of going somewhere else, and then closing the deal, getting the commitment, LOI, etc, and having maybe 1 bad or below average, etc, year, then a ok, good year next year, then a great year 3rd year, then Awesome year 4th year, then Super awesome year 5th year, etc.

I don't know about others, but I prefer the Okafor, Kyle Smith way, over the Dick Bennet, Vaver way.

 

[7ICoug]

Give us a rest Mik.

 

[Coug1990]

Mik, a lot of words and unfortunately, mostly gibberish.

 

[Coug1990]

Mik, what happens if a player redshirts? Then their statistics are 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg, and 0.0 bpg. Would that player be OK?

WSU was Miles Rice only Power Conference offer. Otherwise, he got offers from the likes of Belmont, Pacific, Bucknell, etc. By your standard, he could never become a contributing player.

What about Cedric Coward, who was Eastern Washington's best player last season. He redshirted his first year, he 7.3 ppg his second year, and last year he was up to 15.4.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Continued from last post




WSU basketball was at the similar junction, fork in the road as WSU football was when Price won 3 straight 10 win seasons.

Doba was the coach when we won 10 games in 2003, not Price.

And to your comment, yes I enjoy nitpicking your posts. Although this latest barrage was difficult to pore through. Although they were just the same things repeated over and over again.

Rest those fingers.

If "we" really want a rationale discussion of Riley's recruiting, how about going through player by player and commenting, rather than meandering through the distant past.

 

[CougEd]

So far, in their first year at WSU, Riley is blowing Smith out of the water regarding recruiting. Isaac Bonton, Volodymyr Markovetskyy, Ryan Rapp, Noah Williams, Daron Henson, and DJ Rodman was Smith's first class. Bonton is clearly the best player. Williams was a mixed bag. Rodman was OK, but easily replaceable. The rest were forgettable. There are several players that Riley has brought in that will be better than every player except Bonton. I agree, WSU is in a good position to compete in the WCC.

Bonton was a coach killer .

 

[Coug1990]

Bonton was a coach killer .

This statement is more hyperbole than the truth.