Perception is reality

[Brent H.]

Whatever people perceive the conference to be is what the conference is. When you have people like Wilner going around every week saying how crappy the conference is and that we shouldn't be part of the playoff discussion, people listen. You never see high-end media members for other conferences trash their conference as much as our media members do. That makes people believe that the Pac-12 is garbage because, hell if the people who are paid to pay attention to it say it is, it must be. It's a joke and it's something that Larry Scott needs to fix. But he won't because he sucks.

Here's a problem that the conference has. People say that preseason polls don't matter, but they do. UW, USC, Oregon and Stanford all preseason top 25, 3 of them not ranked. It has 4 teams with 8 or more wins, 3 are ranked and a 4th team will win it's 8th game this weekend. After this weekend we will still have only 3 teams ranked because people think the SEC is soooo much better than the Pac-12. Stanford has 4 top 20 teams losses and aren't ranked. Why is that? They get zero credit for winning in Autzen because Oregon isn't ranked. Mississippi State on the other hand is 18th because they lost to Alabama, LSU, Kentucky and Florida, but get credit for beating Texas A&M at home. A team with 4 losses in to top 20 teams, but are still ranked. Missouri is ranked because they won at Florida. Oregon beat Washington, isn't ranked. Oregon other losses are to Utah, Stanford and WSU, a combined record of 25-9. So why isn't Oregon ranked? Because they got blown out at Arizona. And Arizona is perceived to be worse than South Carolina.

Since the Pac-12 is perceived be bad, wins don't matter in this conference, but losses do. While in the SEC conference record doesn't matter, just go .500 and win 4 easy non con games and you're a top 25 team. I mean what's the point of Stanford and SC always playing Notre Dame? What's the point of SC playing at Texas? What's the point of Oregon playing a home and home with Ohio State? What's the point of UW playing in Atlanta against Georgia? What's the actual point of this? You get zero credit for playing these games. SC is 5-7, they shouldn't go 5-7 ever, but if they play a FCS school and Texas State, they are 7-5.

I won't even get into Penn State being 12th. That all has to do with the name on the jersey and nothing more.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Either go to playing all 11 and dog other conferences like Clubber Lang did Rocky Balboa OR play 8 league games.

Have every team schedule weaker opponents. Every team open their schedule with 4 straight home games, in some cases 5. Every team start 4-0, 4-1 or 5-0. Bang the drum of how great you are.

In the end it may be TV deals that push for better schedules. If Im paying $40M to every school in the conference for TV rights, youre not scheduling McNeese State, The Citadel, West Georgia. Youre playing all Power 5 teams because I cant get viewers or sell ads with crap match ups.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I share your frustration, but sometimes reality is reality. Going 1-8 in bowl games last year didn't do the Pac-12 any favors. Head to head with other P5 conferences this year, the Pac-12 went 3-4 with close victories over Michigan State, Nebraska, and North Carolina while getting crushed by Texas, Oklahoma, and Ohio State (all really good teams), and a close loss to Auburn. Personally, I don't think the Pac-12 is quite as good the past couple of years as it normally is. The conference needs to start recording some impressive wins over the good teams in other conferences....this bowl season would be a nice start. Then perhaps the perception of the conference will change.

Boy, do I agree with you about Penn State, though.

Glad Cougar

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Either go to playing all 11 and dog other conferences like Clubber Lang did Rocky Balboa OR play 8 league games.

Have every team schedule weaker opponents. Every team open their schedule with 4 straight home games, in some cases 5. Every team start 4-0, 4-1 or 5-0. Bang the drum of how great you are.

In the end it may be TV deals that push for better schedules. If Im paying $40M to every school in the conference for TV rights, youre not scheduling McNeese State, The Citadel, West Georgia. Youre playing all Power 5 teams because I cant get viewers or sell ads with crap match ups.

Sure you can. Its not the Citadel fans viewership that is driving the ratings in that game, it's the throngs of mindless Bama fans, who will watch regardless of who they are playing. Its why their stadium sell out every week, with thousands on the waiting list for season tickets. Football is life.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I share your frustration, but sometimes reality is reality. Going 1-8 in bowl games last year didn't do the Pac-12 any favors. Head to head with other P5 conferences this year, the Pac-12 went 3-4 with close victories over Michigan State, Nebraska, and North Carolina while getting crushed by Texas, Oklahoma, and Ohio State (all really good teams), and a close loss to Auburn. Personally, I don't think the Pac-12 is quite as good the past couple of years as it normally is. The conference needs to start recording some impressive wins over the good teams in other conferences....this bowl season would be a nice start. Then perhaps the perception of the conference will change.

Boy, do I agree with you about Penn State, though.

Glad Cougar

God loves pedophiles?

 

[Brent H.]

I share your frustration, but sometimes reality is reality. Going 1-8 in bowl games last year didn't do the Pac-12 any favors. Head to head with other P5 conferences this year, the Pac-12 went 3-4 with close victories over Michigan State, Nebraska, and North Carolina while getting crushed by Texas, Oklahoma, and Ohio State (all really good teams), and a close loss to Auburn. Personally, I don't think the Pac-12 is quite as good the past couple of years as it normally is. The conference needs to start recording some impressive wins over the good teams in other conferences....this bowl season would be a nice start. Then perhaps the perception of the conference will change.

Boy, do I agree with you about Penn State, though.

Glad Cougar

Bowl games records are a joke. They have no barring on the season, it's not like the NCAA Tournament. Teams don't show up because they get screwed with a bowl game. Players sit out because they are afraid of injuries and don't want to get hurt before the draft. If the teams that are perceived to be your best teams at the start of the season have 2-3 losses by October you are considered a bad conference.

 

[Coug90]

True, but the CFP committee is supposed to use a model that relies on real data. Like the quality of wins you’ve had, how many ranked teams you’ve beat, etc. There is no flipping way they are sticking to the script having Penn State ahead of us. College football is corrupt from top to bottom and everything in between.

 

[FedWayCoug]

I just "love" how the CFP rankings were strategically designed to eff the Cougs at 13. There is virtually no scenario where we get a NY6 Bowl now. It's like the committee just wanted to nip this whiskey rebellion in the bud at their earliest opportunity.

 

[chipdouglas]

I agree up to the point where you claim it’s P12 Media killing our perception.

In reality, P12 performance is killing perception, and a lot of that has to do with strategic disadvantages like the extra conference game, game times, conference parity, OOC matchups etc. Fact is, Furd isn’t very good this year. UW made the playoffs recently but haven’t been the belle of the ball since 1992. Oregon is not good. SC is terrible. And half the CFP voters couldn’t name the remaining teams in the PAC. IE, P12 power teams’ star has faded, and the others never had a star, so CFP ignores them completely.

The reason P12 royalty teams get the benefit of the doubt in a way WE don’t is because of what they’ve done on the field in the last 30 years (contrary to what the CFP claims). If they continue to be down, the PAC will cease to have any teams with CPF voters in their corner. And we will continue to fade if the PAC stays the course, as the playing field is not level.

What we can control: schedule embarrassingly easy OOC games every year, refuse to play the extra conference game unless SEC etc drop theirs, and clean house in the PAC with people having a real strategy to promote our fortunes and petition to level the playing field completely. SEC would still be the best or one of the best conferences, but you would see the mystique and many of the ranking disadvantages disappear inside of 10 years.

 

[gpcoug]

Lets be real though it's not like the SEC goes out and wins every bowl game. Gernerally just looking the past 4-5 seasons they are around .500. Granted they have Alabama so everyone must think well everyone else must be good too. In fact besides last year the PAC is right there with the SEC in win percentage. It just doesn't matter if the SEC went 1-8 in bowl season last year do you think anyone would talk about how crappy they are? Doubt it.

 

[Coug95man2]

I agree with everyone that we got hosed by the committee. It's so obvious, it's kinda sick.

Regarding the difference between SEC and PAC. I'm sorry, there are so many other aspects to this, it's crazy. Ultimately, I go through the differences and it'll sound like I'm bashing WSU or the PAC. But I'll just throw this out. East Coast Bias... aka geography. 1. Our games are airing 3 hours AFTER any other games. Just a fact. And that makes a difference. Always will. 2. West coast isn't "crazy" for football like the SEC area. Look at their recruiting classes, let alone their fans. Look at the stadiums and know they fill them. While PAC struggles to fill any random stadium, on any random Saturday.

Those things affect recruiting. Those affect perception.

BUT, I'll still always look at the PAC much like what CML has always said, and at first he got a lot of flack for... Up and down, the PAC is more competitive than the SEC. Our bottom feeders are more competitive than their bottom feeders. And that doesn't help our perception. It appears we are all mediocre. We need to get past THAT perception.

 

[CougPatrol]

Agree with Biggs. It's time to move to the SEC scheduling model. Play 8 conference games, 4 non-league games, and schedule one of the non-league cupcakes the week before Apple Cup.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I agree with everyone that we got hosed by the committee. It's so obvious, it's kinda sick.

Regarding the difference between SEC and PAC. I'm sorry, there are so many other aspects to this, it's crazy. Ultimately, I go through the differences and it'll sound like I'm bashing WSU or the PAC. But I'll just throw this out. East Coast Bias... aka geography. 1. Our games are airing 3 hours AFTER any other games. Just a fact. And that makes a difference. Always will. 2. West coast isn't "crazy" for football like the SEC area. Look at their recruiting classes, let alone their fans. Look at the stadiums and know they fill them. While PAC struggles to fill any random stadium, on any random Saturday.

Those things affect recruiting. Those affect perception.

BUT, I'll still always look at the PAC much like what CML has always said, and at first he got a lot of flack for... Up and down, the PAC is more competitive than the SEC. Our bottom feeders are more competitive than their bottom feeders. And that doesn't help our perception. It appears we are all mediocre. We need to get past THAT perception.

All of the above have influence.

1) We give ourselves a guaranteed 6 losses every year compared to the SEC
2) We've sucked when we've been given the limelight
3) TV revenue rules over everything and the Pac-12 gets screwed relentlessly by the TV schedule.
4) The East coast bias mentioned by coug95man2 is real and it's mostly driven by time zones

WSU playing an Apple Cup on a Friday night in Pullman after Thanksgiving should never happen in a million years. Personally, since we are stuck with 12 games, the Apple Cup should be moved to a different weekend and we should always have one of our Pac-12 road games as our finale. We played UCLA after the Apple Cup in 2002 and the world didn't end. The conference should not be playing games on ESPN on a Friday night with a 7:30 pm PT kickoff. Frankly, I'm not a fan of Friday night conference games ever.

 

[dgibbons]

I agree up to the point where you claim it’s P12 Media killing our perception.

In reality, P12 performance is killing perception, and a lot of that has to do with strategic disadvantages like the extra conference game, game times, conference parity, OOC matchups etc. Fact is, Furd isn’t very good this year. UW made the playoffs recently but haven’t been the belle of the ball since 1992. Oregon is not good. SC is terrible. And half the CFP voters couldn’t name the remaining teams in the PAC. IE, P12 power teams’ star has faded, and the others never had a star, so CFP ignores them completely.

The reason P12 royalty teams get the benefit of the doubt in a way WE don’t is because of what they’ve done on the field in the last 30 years (contrary to what the CFP claims). If they continue to be down, the PAC will cease to have any teams with CPF voters in their corner. And we will continue to fade if the PAC stays the course, as the playing field is not level.

What we can control: schedule embarrassingly easy OOC games every year, refuse to play the extra conference game unless SEC etc drop theirs, and clean house in the PAC with people having a real strategy to promote our fortunes and petition to level the playing field completely. SEC would still be the best or one of the best conferences, but you would see the mystique and many of the ranking disadvantages disappear inside of 10 years.

Strongly disagree. WSU's only shot to make the playoff is to go undefeated. Schedule patsies. If Bama can play Citadel the weekend before the Iron Bowl every year, WSU can play Idaho or Eastern.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Sure you can. Its not the Citadel fans viewership that is driving the ratings in that game, it's the throngs of mindless Bama fans, who will watch regardless of who they are playing. Its why their stadium sell out every week, with thousands on the waiting list for season tickets. Football is life.

Can you do that in the ACC? Or PAC 12?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Strongly disagree. WSU's only shot to make the playoff is to go undefeated. Schedule patsies. If Bama can play Citadel the weekend before the Iron Bowl every year, WSU can play Idaho or Eastern.

Looking longer term, if Leach can keep us at the top, we won't have to be undefeated to make the playoff. All BS aside, if UW's lone loss was to Auburn, they'd be in the playoff at 12-1. Any other "blueblood" program (USC, UCLA and maybe Oregon) gets in at 12-1 most years.

If we had whipped UW 42-23 in the snow of the AC like we did in 1992, we'd be sitting neck and neck with OU and OSU right now and we'd have a good shot at being ahead of both of them. I agree that when it comes down to it, we are better off scheduling patsies right now as we build our "tradition". If we can win the Alamo Bowl (assuming we go there) and finish 11-2, it will be the most wins in school history. If we can go 10-3 next year, it would set the table for us to have a well regarded team in 2020 with a chance to be ranked highly early. Start out the season #12 and don't lose the freakin' AC and we'd have a shot.

 

[chipdouglas]

Strongly disagree. WSU's only shot to make the playoff is to go undefeated. Schedule patsies. If Bama can play Citadel the weekend before the Iron Bowl every year, WSU can play Idaho or Eastern.

Where do we disagree? I'm saying we should schedule the easiest teams we can, avoid all challenges (Seattle games), and refuse to play in a high-risk 4th conference game as long as not every conference is playing by the same rules.

But undeniably, if we can arrange this to the point where we're winning 10+ games a year with an exciting offense, we're not getting the SAME benefit of the doubt as Alabama and Michigan and Penn State, but we're nationally relevant enough not to be regarded as a party-crasher - because we're here every year anyway. Just like SC used to be. Just like Alabama is every year.

 

[chipdouglas]

Lets be real though it's not like the SEC goes out and wins every bowl game. Gernerally just looking the past 4-5 seasons they are around .500. Granted they have Alabama so everyone must think well everyone else must be good too. In fact besides last year the PAC is right there with the SEC in win percentage. It just doesn't matter if the SEC went 1-8 in bowl season last year do you think anyone would talk about how crappy they are? Doubt it.

The fair take on this is that the SEC not only has an unfair advantage - they also are pretty good. Or more like, there are some teams (Bama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU) which are "up" most years with a revolving group of teams that are having an "up" year that year (UF, A&M, Miss), to have a respectable postseason record.

West coast isn't "crazy" for football like the SEC area. Look at their recruiting classes, let alone their fans. Look at the stadiums and know they fill them. While PAC struggles to fill any random stadium, on any random Saturday.

I agree. I moved from the NW to ATL and it was a culture shock. You sit in the 300 level (and there is a 300-level) with 16-year-old girls who can name the 2-deep on the OL. At UGA, you buy your discounted student pass but if you no-show to 3 games, they yank your pass and keep your money. Season tix involve years of being on a waiting list. But one other theory a friend of mine advanced is that there is zero basketball culture in the South/SE, so you have huge population states with kids who largely want to stay local and are strictly involved in football (no competition from other sports). I could buy that this makes a difference.

 

[kougkurt]

I wouldn’t feel as bad if they put us at #14

13. Total conspiracy

 

[CougPatrol]

Another advantage to scheduling a cupcake non-conference game the week (or two) before Apple Cup is that, with the new redshirt rule, you can play a your redshirting players in a real game environment.

Who cares if some fans stay away? It's a tremendous advantage to the program all around. It's almost like a late season BYE week, and for many of the redshirting players, would be as valuable (or more) as the Spring game.

 

[PittisLit5959]

Penn State fan here, if it makes you feel better we aren't getting a New Year's 6 unless OSU jumps Oklahoma to make it in the playoff. Or possibly if 2 SEC teams get in. The reason we would get a NY6 game over you has nothing to do with how good the teams are (they are probably very similar) it has to do with the size of the fan base and eyes it would draw. I am not trying to be a dick here, but most of the country would rather see PSU than WSU.

 

[FnuLnu]

Playing 9 conference games benefits WSU.

They have a tough enough time getting non-conference schools to play in Pullman.

Last time a Power 5 played in Pullman was in 1998. Colorado while in Big 8 had their visit to Pullman cancelled due to 911 and they were rescheduled as the 2004 Seattle game.

 

[Brent H.]

Penn State fan here, if it makes you feel better we aren't getting a New Year's 6 unless OSU jumps Oklahoma to make it in the playoff. Or possibly if 2 SEC teams get in. The reason we would get a NY6 game over you has nothing to do with how good the teams are (they are probably very similar) it has to do with the size of the fan base and eyes it would draw. I am not trying to be a dick here, but most of the country would rather see PSU than WSU.

I'd agree that the fan base size is a huge draw to the committee, but I disagree that most people would rather see Penn State than us. Most people in the country would love to see a Mike Leach team play.

 

[PittisLit5959]

I'd agree that the fan base size is a huge draw to the committee, but I disagree that most people would rather see Penn State than us. Most people in the country would love to see a Mike Leach team play.

You might be right, for people that know football this may be true. But to the casual fan PSU LSU gets more buzz than LSU WSU

 

[dgibbons]

You might be right, for people that know football this may be true. But to the casual fan PSU LSU gets more buzz than LSU WSU

• 

 

[dgibbons]

Penn State fan here, if it makes you feel better we aren't getting a New Year's 6 unless OSU jumps Oklahoma to make it in the playoff. Or possibly if 2 SEC teams get in. The reason we would get a NY6 game over you has nothing to do with how good the teams are (they are probably very similar) it has to do with the size of the fan base and eyes it would draw. I am not trying to be a dick here, but most of the country would rather see PSU than WSU.

Your team is average.

 

[PittisLit5959]

Your team is average.

Absolutely no argument here. Thought at the beginning of the year best case was 10-2, young team, 9-3 about what I expected. Between PSU and WSU your splitting hairs, benefit is going to the team who draws more eyes, fair or not that is the reality.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Your team is average.

I know something their school is really good at...

 

[dgibbons]

I know something their school is really good at...

I know two things: coverups and pedophilia.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Penn State fan here, if it makes you feel better we aren't getting a New Year's 6 unless OSU jumps Oklahoma to make it in the playoff. Or possibly if 2 SEC teams get in. The reason we would get a NY6 game over you has nothing to do with how good the teams are (they are probably very similar) it has to do with the size of the fan base and eyes it would draw. I am not trying to be a dick here, but most of the country would rather see PSU than WSU.

I think you have a point...but your last sentence is not worded correctly. "Most of the country" doesn't give one sh!t about PSU or WSU when they are getting ready to watch football. Would most of the country "expect" to see PSU selected before WSU for a high level bowl? Sure. Do they care? NO. An average fan from outside the Pac-12 footprint isn't going to see WSU vs LSU and think, "Man.....who would want to watch that?" They are going to say, "Isn't WSU the school with that crazy coach who's always saying insane things and they never run the football? They'll probably lose but that might be fun to see."

That same fan seeing PSU vs LSU is going to think, "Man.....that might be a close game but it's going to be boring as hell, I'll check in after halftime and see what the score is".

 

[PittisLit5959]

Are the Ped State comments really necessary? I'm killing time at work, just came to bullshit, didn't think I was being disrespectful. No need to be pricks.

Anyways College Football is a weird sport, your conference and team perception makes a difference. I wonder if you think recruiting also makes a difference? PSU has been recruiting lights out the last three years, maybe the committee looks at two teams who are fairly equal and says, I know PSU has the players we will bump them up? Do you think that makes an impact?

 

[Observer11]

Strongly disagree. WSU's only shot to make the playoff is to go undefeated. Schedule patsies. If Bama can play Citadel the weekend before the Iron Bowl every year, WSU can play Idaho or Eastern.

I can personally attest, the Kibbie Dome is not a bad spot to watch a game in the middle of November.

Very comfortable.

 

[chipdouglas]

Are the Ped State comments really necessary? I'm killing time at work, just came to bullshit, didn't think I was being disrespectful. No need to be pricks.

Anyways College Football is a weird sport, your conference and team perception makes a difference. I wonder if you think recruiting also makes a difference? PSU has been recruiting lights out the last three years, maybe the committee looks at two teams who are fairly equal and says, I know PSU has the players we will bump them up? Do you think that makes an impact?

Ignore the peanut gallery. They're [understandably] sore in light of recent events, but I notice/appreciate the tenor and respect of your post, as do the silent majority I'm sure.

I agree with you that it's more interesting to the committee to have Penn State and its pedigree playing. It conjures up something nostalgic for them - whatever that may be - whereas WSU conjures up nothing with its comparatively limited pedigree.

What frustrates me is that the committee is supposed to be picking the best and most deserving teams, not giving a tip of the cap to whatever Penn State was doing in the long-gone Paterno era.

WSU would have a good showing though in a NY6 - it's rare, Cougs travel extremely well, and there is a lot of interest in Texas/the South in Leach.

 

[PittisLit5959]

Ignore the peanut gallery. They're [understandably] sore in light of recent events, but I notice/appreciate the tenor and respect of your post, as do the silent majority I'm sure.

I agree with you that it's more interesting to the committee to have Penn State and its pedigree playing. It conjures up something nostalgic for them - whatever that may be - whereas WSU conjures up nothing with its comparatively limited pedigree.

What frustrates me is that the committee is supposed to be picking the best and most deserving teams, not giving a tip of the cap to whatever Penn State was doing in the long-gone Paterno era.

WSU would have a good showing though in a NY6 - it's rare, Cougs travel extremely well, and there is a lot of interest in Texas/the South in Leach.

You would think that anytime a power 5 team goes 10-2 they would almost automatically be penciled into a NY6 game. I can come up with reasons as to why WSU will not be, does not make it right. Do you think if instead of playing Eastern Washington and Montana State they played, idk maybe Utah State/BYU the perception of there body of work would have been different?

 

[CougPatrol]

I know two things: coverups and pedophilia.

Oh come on now. He's arguing his point diplomatically.

 

[Coug95man2]

You would think that anytime a power 5 team goes 10-2 they would almost automatically be penciled into a NY6 game. I can come up with reasons as to why WSU will not be, does not make it right. Do you think if instead of playing Eastern Washington and Montana State they played, idk maybe Utah State/BYU the perception of there body of work would have been different?

Potentially, but that's the rub for the PAC. It turns into "perception" not reality. Because it isn't like the SEC doesn't have it's patsies that they play, right? AND the PAC only plays 3 non-con games, where then SEC plays 4. So the PAC needs to play harder opponents and more of them, in order to get the same "perception"?

EDIT: And I'll add, this is the supposed purpose behind the CFP, right? To take away the human perception side of it? It's all about numbers and fact and then the top teams play each other? That worked well... Hence the reason we'll be moving to an 8 team play-off fairly soon, and then a 16 after another 5-10 years to let the 8 soak in.

 

[chipdouglas]

You would think that anytime a power 5 team goes 10-2 they would almost automatically be penciled into a NY6 game. I can come up with reasons as to why WSU will not be, does not make it right. Do you think if instead of playing Eastern Washington and Montana State they played, idk maybe Utah State/BYU the perception of there body of work would have been different?

The committee is hanging its hat on SoS. But as others have pointed out, the SEC enjoys this weird advantage where losses are ignored as "the other team was good", and wins are eaten up because YOU were so good - in addition to the 1 fewer conference game. Were one to adjust rankings to account for these two unfair practices, there would be zero SoS difference without even changing who we played this year.

But basically you're asking, "if we hold WSU to a higher standard than the SEC and a handful of B1G/B12 teams, and they still deliver, would they be in?" Answer is yes - but that's like saying "if you had gotten a 1600 on your SATs instead of a 1540, would you have gotten into Harvard?" Possibly, but there's a basic injustice when others are getting in with a 1200.

 

[PittisLit5959]

Potentially, but that's the rub for the PAC. It turns into "perception" not reality. Because it isn't like the SEC doesn't have it's patsies that they play, right? AND the PAC only plays 3 non-con games, where then SEC plays 4. So the PAC needs to play harder opponents and more of them, in order to get the same "perception"?

This we can completely agree on Big ten plays 9 conference games as well, SEC gets to play the Citadel and Alabama A&T week 11, that doesn't seem right. You have 14 teams in the conference there is no excuse for it.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Oh come on now. He's arguing his point diplomatically.

We already know the reasons why: eyeballs and money. We don't need a PSU honk to come enlighten us as to why our program is lesser than theirs. It's patronizing and condescending.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Are the Ped State comments really necessary? I'm killing time at work, just came to bullshit, didn't think I was being disrespectful. No need to be pricks.

Anyways College Football is a weird sport, your conference and team perception makes a difference. I wonder if you think recruiting also makes a difference? PSU has been recruiting lights out the last three years, maybe the committee looks at two teams who are fairly equal and says, I know PSU has the players we will bump them up? Do you think that makes an impact?

First, only a fool comes over to the message board of a pissed off fanbase and thinks that they are going to be treated kindly as they tell us why we should expect to get screwed over.

However, your original point about size of fanbase is valid, even though it's not supposed to be about that. And even though the committee claims that they don't take into account what's happened prior to this season......we know that's not true. They absolutely know that Michigan State ran the train on us last year (with our backup QB) and they know that Penn State has a history of good football. The performance of the Pac-12 in last year's bowl games is being held against us. As someone mentioned earlier, the Pac-12 went 3-4 against Power 5 opponents this year. If you add in Notre Dame, we went 3-6. 4 of the losses happened against probable CFP participants, but that doesn't matter when it's the Pac-12 making the excuse.

You as a B1G fan are going to say that Penn State deserves to get in because their losses were to Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State. When a Pac-12 fans points out that the Pac-12 went 2-1 against B1G teams.......including Michigan State......suddenly it doesn't matter. Penn State's best win is over 8-4 Iowa, a B1G team who's best win is against Iowa State before they figured out that they needed to switch QB's. WSU beat 9-3 Utah, 8-4 Oregon, and 8-4 Cal or Stanford depending on who wins the game this weekend. If Stanford wins big and gets back into the CFP Top 25, we'll have gone 2-1 against teams in the CFP Top 25. Penn State is 0-2.

There isn't any logical reason for Penn State to be ranked over WSU. You can make the argument that Florida and WSU played similarly tough schedules and the LSU win was a good one, but then again....two FCS teams? Really? Your other point about conference perception is fair too, but it's kind of sad when the bias has gotten so bad that a team that's 3rd place in it's own division that played two FCS teams is considered a Top 12 team. It's pathetic and it's a travesty, but hey, the one thing that WSU and the other Pac-12 teams can do is to win games and shut that crap down. Do that enough and the bias will change.