Pete Thamel article on FSU job

[ScottHood]

He lists 11 contenders for the Florida State job and Leach isn't among them. He lists the reasons why Leach likely won't touch the job beginning with athletic dept. dysfunction and ineptitude.

Story: https://sports.yahoo.com/the-bad-ne...t-worse-before-they-get-better-235857444.html

 

[Flatlandcoug]

That makes me feel a lot better about the situation. I can't see Leach seriously considering a job where the administration is a known CF.

 

[ttowncoug]

The other piece on Leach: the "blue blood"program will always want to a big name. Their (delusional) fan bases, mainly for recruiting, think they need the best.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The other piece on Leach: the "blue blood"program will always want to a big name. Their (delusional) fan bases, mainly for recruiting, think they need the best.

Well, there is some truth there.

Leach has never been to a NC.

His recruiting has been less that optimal and leaves a lot to be desired. In 1999, the year before Leach, TT had the #1 class in the nation. Following CML's arrival, the next 12 years were:
44, 51, 34, 71, 39, 38, 28, 42, 75, 39

His 8 years on the Palouse are:
58, 50, 53, 42, 56, 47, 46, 65

I know the argument - he doesn't recruit the same kids other programs do and still has success. However, when you have a program that is 100%, all eight cylinders committed to winning a NC (we are not, in case you were wondering), getting mostly marginal talent is not going to cut it.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well, there is some truth there.

Leach has never been to a NC.

His recruiting has been less that optimal and leaves a lot to be desired. In 1999, the year before Leach, TT had the #1 class in the nation. Following CML's arrival, the next 12 years were:
44, 51, 34, 71, 39, 38, 28, 42, 75, 39

His 8 years on the Palouse are:
58, 50, 53, 42, 56, 47, 46, 65

I know the argument - he doesn't recruit the same kids other programs do and still has success. However, when you have a program that is 100%, all eight cylinders committed to winning a NC (we are not, in case you were wondering), getting mostly marginal talent is not going to cut it.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

I live in Austin. You are so wildly off base about TT it is laughable. TT doesnt have the fire power to have the best class in Texas let alone the nation. Maybe even the 4th best class in Texas would be pushing it. Have you been to or seen some of these schools? I have. Your idea that TT could be in the mix for best classes just isnt accurate.

 

[cougarhawk1]

Well, there is some truth there.

Leach has never been to a NC.

His recruiting has been less that optimal and leaves a lot to be desired. In 1999, the year before Leach, TT had the #1 class in the nation. Following CML's arrival, the next 12 years were:
44, 51, 34, 71, 39, 38, 28, 42, 75, 39

His 8 years on the Palouse are:
58, 50, 53, 42, 56, 47, 46, 65

I know the argument - he doesn't recruit the same kids other programs do and still has success. However, when you have a program that is 100%, all eight cylinders committed to winning a NC (we are not, in case you were wondering), getting mostly marginal talent is not going to cut it.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

 

[cougarhawk1]

Well, there is some truth there.

Leach has never been to a NC.

His recruiting has been less that optimal and leaves a lot to be desired. In 1999, the year before Leach, TT had the #1 class in the nation. Following CML's arrival, the next 12 years were:
44, 51, 34, 71, 39, 38, 28, 42, 75, 39

His 8 years on the Palouse are:
58, 50, 53, 42, 56, 47, 46, 65

I know the argument - he doesn't recruit the same kids other programs do and still has success. However, when you have a program that is 100%, all eight cylinders committed to winning a NC (we are not, in case you were wondering), getting mostly marginal talent is not going to cut it.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

Wait just a second, I followed Texas Tech -including recruiting when Leach was there-to claim recruiting woes at Texas Tech is Leachs fault is laughable.

Its almost impossible to recruit to Lubbock being 5 hours from nowhere. Look at the recruiting rankings every year after Leach-its shit.

#1 recruiting class my arse. They have sucked at recruiting for 100 years.

 

[CougPatrol]

Well, there is some truth there.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

I don't disagree with your post entirely, but Leach, or any coach, wasn't/isn't going to get Texas Tech or WSU to National prominence in recruiting. You're either a blue blood or you're not.

The counterpoint to your post is that Leach's biggest weakness is recruiting, and at Florida State he won't have to worry about that. Their program recruits itself. He'll have access to 4* and 5* skill position players without having to work at it.

 

[CougEd]

That makes me feel a lot better about the situation. I can't see Leach seriously considering a job where the administration is a known CF.

Someone mentioned that to me last night, the alumni run the show, administration is a mess and unlikely Leach would walk into that situation.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Well, there is some truth there.

Leach has never been to a NC.

His recruiting has been less that optimal and leaves a lot to be desired. In 1999, the year before Leach, TT had the #1 class in the nation. Following CML's arrival, the next 12 years were:
44, 51, 34, 71, 39, 38, 28, 42, 75, 39

His 8 years on the Palouse are:
58, 50, 53, 42, 56, 47, 46, 65

I know the argument - he doesn't recruit the same kids other programs do and still has success. However, when you have a program that is 100%, all eight cylinders committed to winning a NC (we are not, in case you were wondering), getting mostly marginal talent is not going to cut it.

He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't. I just don't think he thinks its that important to have talented high school kids on campus and that building up kids is just as good, but the numbers (recruiting ranking vs team elite success) would suggest otherwise.

Woah, woah, woah. Texas Tech had the #1 recruiting class in the nation in 1999? I can't find any rankings online to disprove you, but I find that very hard to believe.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Got ahead of myself.

Rivals rankings begin in 1999, so everone is ranked #1.

DOH!.

Still, 99.99% of my post stands.

 

[cougarhawk1]

I think recruiting rankings twenty years ago was in its infancy. To say Tech outrecruited texas, tamu, ohio state, notre dame, penn state etc is wildly misleading. Im looking at their roster-welker was a walkon and their best player-it was spikes last year.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Got ahead of myself.

Rivals rankings begin in 1999, so everone is ranked #1.

DOH!.

Still, 99.99% of my post stands.

So Cougs were co-National champs in 1999 as well.
Suck that uw.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

I live in Austin. You are so wildly off base about TT it is laughable. TT doesnt have the fire power to have the best class in Texas let alone the nation. Maybe even the 4th best class in Texas would be pushing it. Have you been to or seen some of these schools? I have. Your idea that TT could be in the mix for best classes just isnt accurate.

Thank you for a sanity check. I live in Dallas and a UT grad and fan and there is no way in hell Tech ever had the #1 recruiting class in the nation ever and especially in 1999. That would have been Spike Dykes last year and everyone knew he was on the way out and although he was great guy he absolutely hated recruiting. Some of the things people try to make up on message boards is crazy. I guess you go back to 1999 and no one will remember.

Leach actually had Tech on the upswing in recruiting . His Crabtree class ( don't remember which year that was) was a great class. UT actually wanted some of those guys. Names you guys will know like Harrell and McBath had big time offers.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Leach has historically recruited at a level consistent with the 2 schools he has been HC at.

 

[etowncoug]

Got ahead of myself.

Rivals rankings begin in 1999, so everone is ranked #1.

DOH!.

Still, 99.99% of my post stands.

Leach will take talent, but it needs to be kids who will buy in and run his system. Most of the four Star recruits we've landed over the years don't work out. Either because there are off the field issues or because they peaked early and don't get much better.

All of this would change if Leach went to a national powerhouse. He'd have his pick of four and five star recruits, allowing him to filter out the kids with bad grades or attitudes. When they arrived on campus he could be even more of a drill sergeant because next year would bring another wave of four star talent to replace the kids who don't buy in. Leach would be a success anywhere he goes.

It's a much bigger question if Leach could survive the political game of a top tier University. He's controversial and will make several unpleasant headlines a year. We roll our eyes in Pullman. We don't have boosters who would start campaigns to get the coach fired for his latest tweets or tough loss. Nor is Leach the kind of guy who will make a mea culpa after such controversies.

 

[Pinkcadillac]

There is a built in bias against non conformity

I know of a record setting hs coach who wont punt on fourth down does onsides kicks after every score and runs the air raid

He has winning percentage and scoring stats that are tops in the country or damn close every year

No college will touch him

 

[BiggsCoug]

There is a built in bias against non conformity

I know of a record setting hs coach who wont punt on fourth down does onsides kicks after every score and runs the air raid

He has winning percentage and scoring stats that are tops in the country or damn close every year

No college will touch him

Is that the guy in Arkansas?

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Got ahead of myself.

Rivals rankings begin in 1999, so everone is ranked #1.

DOH!.

Still, 99.99% of my post stands.

99.9 % stands huh.

This part could not be further from the truth : " He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't."

Tech does not have the resources , boosters or fan base for any Coach to get TT to national prominence in recruiting. Period end of story. They have no natural geographical recruiting base. And when they go where the players are in Texas, they will always be about 5th or 6th pick if they are lucky. You have to remember it is not only the Texas schools that all of over the quality recruits, OU and Okie State build about half of their team from Texas as well.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

99.9 % stands huh.

This part could not be further from the truth : " He had the record, acumen, resources ($$$$$), boosters, fan base... everything he could need to get TT to national prominence (in recruiting) and didn't/ couldn't."

Tech does not have the resources , boosters or fan base for any Coach to get TT to national prominence in recruiting. Period end of story. They have no natural geographical recruiting base. And when they go where the players are in Texas, they will always be about 5th or 6th pick if they are lucky. You have to remember it is not is not only the Texas schools that all of over the quality recruits, OU and Okie State builds about half of their team from Texas as well.

To be fair, Leach had built Texas Tech to the point where they could go toe to toe with anyone but the blue bloods and being in Texas is still better than being in other places if you want your family close. They had performed several different stadium expansions while he was there, increasing capacity from 48,000 to just over 60,000. Odessa, Midland and a few other "Friday Night Lights" high schools are closer to Texas Tech than any other major school. Texas still got first pick......but if Tech hadn't been so stupid, they'd probably be the Florida State of the midwest by now. Things were really just starting to roll when it all fell apart.

Leach still had a ways to go to get ahead of Texas in the state, but given their struggles from 2010-2017, he might have had a shot at really getting ahead. Thankfully, we as Coug fans will never know.

 

[79COUG]

There is a built in bias against non conformity

I know of a record setting hs coach who wont punt on fourth down does onsides kicks after every score and runs the air raid

He has winning percentage and scoring stats that are tops in the country or damn close every year

No college will touch him

My daughter attends a VERY small, Central Washington school (Go Odessa Tigers!). They play 8-man ball. Sounds EXACTLY like their coach. They haven't lost a game in 2 years and no one has scored more than 8 points against them all year.

Is it him??

 

[Cougsocal]

Honestly, why quibble. Mike Leach is a hell of a coach and football mind. But does anyone think he is is a top flight recruiter as well? We are winning consistently. We have poured money into the program and facilities, conference foes are struggling like they never have and we still haven't recruited an upper division Pac-12 level class (Price managed it 3 times in 11 years). If any program must have a coach who is a "proven" recruiter, we can rest easy. They aren't looking at Mike Leach.

 

[Pinkcadillac]

There seems to be a lot of angst that leach is flirting with fsu and arkansas thus a lot of complaining about his recruiting

Relax he isnt going anywhere

 

[Glad Cougar]

There seems to be a lot of angst that leach is flirting with fsu and arkansas thus a lot of complaining about his recruiting

Relax he isnt going anywhere

There are no absolutes when it comes to NCAA coaches. While I don't expect Leach to be somewhere else next year, the fact is he's a viable candidate for other jobs and, thus, anything is possible. I would not have expected him to be serious about the Tennessee job this time a year ago but it would've happened if Leach and the Vols AD had their way.

FSU is not going to hire Leach. Arkansas might. I just don't know if Leach would want the Razorback's job. There is sure to be a lot of other coaching jobs opening up at the end of the season. I'm not worried about it....if he goes, he goes just like so many successful WSU coaches before him in football and other sports (i.e. Erickson, Price, Raveling, Sampson, Bennett).

Glad Cougar

 

[Pinkcadillac]

Unless some knock your socks off offer comes i just dont see it
I think hes got everything he could want at wsu some of these schools could end up a disastrous move

 

[Flatlandcoug]

There are no absolutes when it comes to NCAA coaches. While I don't expect Leach to be somewhere else next year, the fact is he's a viable candidate for other jobs and, thus, anything is possible. I would not have expected him to be serious about the Tennessee job this time a year ago but it would've happened if Leach and the Vols AD had their way.

FSU is not going to hire Leach. Arkansas might. I just don't know if Leach would want the Razorback's job. There is sure to be a lot of other coaching jobs opening up at the end of the season. I'm not worried about it....if he goes, he goes just like so many successful WSU coaches before him in football and other sports (i.e. Erickson, Price, Raveling, Sampson, Bennett).

Glad Cougar

The stuff I read about Tennessee was credible enough for me to understand that only a fool would say that Mike Leach would not leave for another opportunity. I like our chances of keeping him for a while and I hope we do, but as long as he is doing well enough for our fans to be happy....you never say never.

 

[Observer11]

There seems to be a lot of angst that leach is flirting with fsu and arkansas thus a lot of complaining about his recruiting

Relax he isnt going anywhere

Leach has a history of flirting and then gaining some additional concessions on his contract.

This is normal December/January behavior - winter came early this year.

 

[Pinkcadillac]

Maybe the worst problem being faced is leach is a lawyer

Its really rare to find an honest man that happens to be a lawyer

 

[dgibbons]

Unless some knock your socks off offer comes i just dont see it
I think hes got everything he could want at wsu some of these schools could end up a disastrous move

Yes and no. The IPF needs to get built, not perennially pushed forward to next year.

 

[CougPatrol]

The stuff I read about Tennessee was credible enough for me to understand that only a fool would say that Mike Leach would not leave for another opportunity. I like our chances of keeping him for a while and I hope we do, but as long as he is doing well enough for our fans to be happy....you never say never.

Tennessee is a true blue blood. If you've never been to Knoxville, you're missing out. It's one of the top-50 cities to live in Nationally, great cost of living, an unbelievably rabid fan base, over 100K fans/game with a virtual Rose Bowl Parade spectacle for every home game.

Tennessee was a unique opportunity for Leach, and he was absolutely justified to pursue it. There aren't many jobs as good as that one when you factor in the livability of the city, conference affiliation, and $$$. How that University consistently finds ways to screw up their candidate search is laughably bad.

 

[froropmkr72]

Woah, woah, woah. Texas Tech had the #1 recruiting class in the nation in 1999? I can't find any rankings online to disprove you, but I find that very hard to believe.

All teams' 99' class have a ranked 1 class. Same with WSU ...which wasn't bad.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Tennessee is a true blue blood. If you've never been to Knoxville, you're missing out. It's one of the top-50 cities to live in Nationally, great cost of living, an unbelievably rabid fan base, over 100K fans/game with a virtual Rose Bowl Parade spectacle for every home game.

Tennessee was a unique opportunity for Leach, and he was absolutely justified to pursue it. There aren't many jobs as good as that one when you factor in the livability of the city, conference affiliation, and $$$. How that University consistently finds ways to screw up their candidate search is laughably bad.

Agree 100%.........that's why I'll never say never.

All BS aside, we all know that if FSU called up Mike Leach and asked him if he'd like to coach in the ACC for $8 million per year with a 6 year guaranteed contract.......he'd spend an hour telling them how much he respected the Seminole Indian tribe and how he'd been thinking about writing a book about them. His a$$ would be gone. Pullman is a great spot for Leach in terms of freedom, walking to work, decent facilities and all that......but Tallahassee's location in the south would make everything about his job easier and FSU has a stadium that Pullman can never support. He'd have resources at his disposal that he could only fantasize about at WSU.

We can delude ourselves all we want, but there is a number out there that will get Mike Leach to leave. For all of the talk about how dysfunctional FSU is.......all that crap goes away if you are winning enough games. A key difference between FSU and Texas Tech is that FSU won't have a bunch of insecure Texas sized egos on the board of regents messing things up. I don't believe that FSU wants Mike Leach and it would take a lot to shake Mike loose, but it can always happen.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Maybe the worst problem being faced is leach is a lawyer

Its really rare to find an honest man that happens to be a lawyer

Rarer still to find an honest man who happens to be a football coach.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Money aside, I think the #1 reason Leach may eventually leave, is having to replace assistant coaches so frequently. I think he's really perturbed that Oregon is able to poach his coaches with such ease. Just means he has to spend his time recruiting, interviewing and training new assistants. Gotta be irritating for him.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Money aside, I think the #1 reason Leach may eventually leave, is having to replace assistant coaches so frequently. I think he's really perturbed that Oregon is able to poach his coaches with such ease. Just means he has to spend his time recruiting, interviewing and training new assistants. Gotta be irritating for him.

Yep.

Leach was always swimming up stream when he was at Tech in recruiting against UT, A&M so he knew that came with the territory . However the poaching of coaches I would bet is a surprise to him. Especially the number that have gone to Oregon . That type stuff really does not happen in Texas or the B12. Maybe one offs but not 4 in 4 years. Sure glad WSU scared them a little this year, but it would have been nice if their kicker would have just pushed that ball just a couple more yards to the right on that last FG . Clank and then maybe we could have seen Cristobal's head actually explode. You can tell he is ultra tense for the WSU game . Fairly sure he has penalty for arguing calls 2 years in a row in the WSU game. Must be the guilt creeping in.

 

[CougEd]

Honestly, why quibble. Mike Leach is a hell of a coach and football mind. But does anyone think he is is a top flight recruiter as well? We are winning consistently. We have poured money into the program and facilities, conference foes are struggling like they never have and we still haven't recruited an upper division Pac-12 level class (Price managed it 3 times in 11 years). If any program must have a coach who is a "proven" recruiter, we can rest easy. They aren't looking at Mike Leach.

I am not sure he is a top flight recruiter on both sides of the ball. He will always have five functional linemen. He may burn through three classes and turn them over to find five (he currently has no experienced depth). He seems to be able to reload at the other offensive positions as well. The other side of the ball is the question mark.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I am not sure he is a top flight recruiter on both sides of the ball. He will always have five functional linemen. He may burn through three classes and turn them over to find five (he currently has no experienced depth). He seems to be able to reload at the other offensive positions as well. The other side of the ball is the question mark.

He doesn't have "experienced depth" on the OL, because (knock on wood) his lines aren't a revolving door of injuries.

 

[CougEd]

He doesn't have "experienced depth" on the OL, because (knock on wood) his lines aren't a revolving door of injuries.

Yep....his olines have been healthy and haven't missed a ton of time. If nothing else, his injury prevention (lower leg) should be looked at by all high schools and junior highs.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Speaking of Oregon's coaches, I wonder what Coach Joe's recruiting responsibilities are now. Looking at their roster, they've got one kid listed from American Samoa, who I think actually went to high school in Utah (Penei Sewell. They've got a handful of kids from Hawaii, so I assume that's his territory now? I wonder if he's not really going to AS anymore, and if so, what he thinks about that.

 

[etowncoug]

He doesn't have "experienced depth" on the OL, because (knock on wood) his lines aren't a revolving door of injuries.

Health combined with a lack of substitutions mean you rarely go into a season with a ton of experience at the position. FWIW, Brian Greene and Jarrett Kingston have both gotten enough game experience to where we wouldn't be worried if they needed to play for a week or two.