Rankings out

[Loyal Coug1]

Only fell to #19. I'll take it. UCLA in at #22. 3 PAC traitors in the top 10, unfortunately we play 2 of them. 7 teams ranked in total. That is just nuts. What a way to go out.

Remaining schedule and predictions:
Arizona - maybe
Oregon - loss
ASU - maybe
Stanford - win
Cal - win
Colorado - maybe
uw - loss

So 6-6 at worst, 9-3 at best. Not so horrible in a stacked league. We'll know a lot more after Arizona. And I wonder about their QB situation. That Falili (or whatever) is damn good. I assume deLaura will be back, and I think I'd rather take my chances with him. Especially at home. 4pm kickoff (fans will be juiced), weather shouldn't be too bad.

Looking at our future conference mates, Wyoming and Air Force are #27 and #28. Not sure how Fresno could go from being #24 to #38 after a close loss to Wyoming.

Mik's fantasy conference mates? Tulane #35, Memphis #39. Just sayin'.

 

[dgibbons]

I think you're overrating Colorado and ASU. CU is at home and ASU has one win for a reason.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I think you're overrating Colorado and ASU. CU is at home and ASU has one win for a reason.

Hope yer right.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Only fell to #19. I'll take it. UCLA in at #22. 3 PAC traitors in the top 10, unfortunately we play 2 of them. 7 teams ranked in total. That is just nuts. What a way to go out.

Remaining schedule and predictions:
Arizona - maybe
Oregon - loss
ASU - maybe
Stanford - win
Cal - win
Colorado - maybe
uw - loss

So 6-6 at worst, 9-3 at best. Not so horrible in a stacked league. We'll know a lot more after Arizona. And I wonder about their QB situation. That Falili (or whatever) is damn good. I assume deLaura will be back, and I think I'd rather take my chances with him. Especially at home. 4pm kickoff (fans will be juiced), weather shouldn't be too bad.

Looking at our future conference mates, Wyoming and Air Force are #27 and #28. Not sure how Fresno could go from being #24 to #38 after a close loss to Wyoming.

Mik's fantasy conference mates? Tulane #35, Memphis #39. Just sayin'.

Kal is looking like they have a heartbeat, in marking that as a maybe as well.

In fact, yesterday's performance loses to everyone else on the schedule.

My heart says that there is incremental improvement to be had, but my head says that if that's what they have after getting two weeks to prepare then as Dennis Green says - they are who they are.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I think you're overrating Colorado and ASU. CU is at home and ASU has one win for a reason.

But we lost a game so we're terrible.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Kal is looking like they have a heartbeat, in marking that as a maybe as well.

In fact, yesterday's performance loses to everyone else on the schedule.

My heart says that there is incremental improvement to be had, but my head says that if that's what they have after getting two weeks to prepare then as Dennis Green says - they are who they are.

Two things. One, UCLA had a bye week also. Two, when the hell have we EVER won a game after a bye week?

 

[Dave_86]

Oregon Stater here. Been snooping this forum for the last couple of months.

Every Oregon State fan I know wants to see the Cougars win out the regular season. We want a rematch in the PAC-12 Championship game.

See you all in Las Vegas.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Oregon Stater here. Been snooping this forum for the last couple of months.

Every Oregon State fan I know wants to see the Cougars win out the regular season. We want a rematch in the PAC-12 Championship game.

See you all in Las Vegas.

Thanks Beav. So what do you Beavs think about the future of the Pac 2? Over here, everyone but me sez we need to wait for the court/money thing to get settled before we do anything. Which could take years. I supposed we could have 12 home and home games next year and beyond.

Most hold out feeble hope for a Big12 invite.

One of our loons - uh I mean posters - is determined that we need to go get Memphis, USF, Tulane and some other far East teams to fill in the Pac2. Never mind that there is no apparent interest from any of them.

My much-maligned approach is simple. Go to the Mtn West. Talk them into dissolving and joining the PAC to make the Pac-14. If we insist on "waiting", go the the MTN west and negotiate a "guest" slot in their scheduling for 2024 while the legal dust hopefully settles.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Thanks Beav. So what do you Beavs think about the future of the Pac 2? Over here, everyone but me sez we need to wait for the court/money thing to get settled before we do anything. Which could take years. I supposed we could have 12 home and home games next year and beyond.

Most hold out feeble hope for a Big12 invite.

One of our loons - uh I mean posters - is determined that we need to go get Memphis, USF, Tulane and some other far East teams to fill in the Pac2. Never mind that there is no apparent interest from any of them.

My much-maligned approach is simple. Go to the Mtn West. Talk them into dissolving and joining the PAC to make the Pac-14. If we insist on "waiting", go the the MTN west and negotiate a "guest" slot in their scheduling for 2024 while the legal dust hopefully settles.

Our best case scenario if the Big 12 doesn't come calling is to have a scheduling agreement with the MWC for two years with the plan that at least six of them will come over to a new Pac-XX conference in 2026.

If the MWC insists on bringing all of their conference over, it's better than nothing. If they insist on us joining them.....it will suck but it will still be football. Yesterday was a reminder that WSU isn't winning any championships at the Power 5 level anyway.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Our best case scenario if the Big 12 doesn't come calling is to have a scheduling agreement with the MWC for two years with the plan that at least six of them will come over to a new Pac-XX conference in 2026.

If the MWC insists on bringing all of their conference over, it's better than nothing. If they insist on us joining them.....it will suck but it will still be football. Yesterday was a reminder that WSU isn't winning any championships at the Power 5 level anyway.

Well see that's close to what I've been saying the whole time. And this whole fixation with making the playoffs (and the Championship). That's all anyone here and elsewhere focuses on. As you say, WSU will never win a natty in Football. VB or Soccer, maybe. Making the expanded playoff would be a reasonable goal, which means win your league. Which is what matters.

Yeah there's the money thing. But IDK, Fresno managed to kick the shit out of us in the Bowl Game with their feeble resources. And having WSU and OSU in the mix, along with the PAC name, can't help but get the MTN West people a better TV deal. Shit Fresno /Wyoming was on - I think - ESPN2 last night?

But we have to have tings in motion yesterday. The court thing will not be settled on Nov. 14. You attorneys on this Board can speak to that better than me.

And edit: I don't know if cutting a scheduling deal with the plan being that we will poach 6 of them afterwards would fly very far with the MTN West. Nor would having it be our secret agenda seem very ethical to this Coug. All or none I say.

 

[longtimecoug]

Well see that's close to what I've been saying the whole time. And this whole fixation with making the playoffs (and the Championship). That's all anyone here and elsewhere focuses on. As you say, WSU will never win a natty in Football. VB or Soccer, maybe. Making the expanded playoff would be a reasonable goal, which means win your league. Which is what matters.

Yeah there's the money thing. But IDK, Fresno managed to kick the shit out of us in the Bowl Game with their feeble resources. And having WSU and OSU in the mix, along with the PAC name, can't help but get the MTN West people a better TV deal. Shit Fresno /Wyoming was on - I think - ESPN2 last night?

But we have to have tings in motion yesterday. The court thing will not be settled on Nov. 14. You attorneys on this Board can speak to that better than me.

And edit: I don't know if cutting a scheduling deal with the plan being that we will poach 6 of them afterwards would fly very far with the MTN West. Nor would having it be our secret agenda seem very ethical to this Coug. All or none I say.

Agree, all or none. As much as I'd rather we pick and choose that would be total hypocrisy

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Well see that's close to what I've been saying the whole time. And this whole fixation with making the playoffs (and the Championship). That's all anyone here and elsewhere focuses on. As you say, WSU will never win a natty in Football. VB or Soccer, maybe. Making the expanded playoff would be a reasonable goal, which means win your league. Which is what matters.

Yeah there's the money thing. But IDK, Fresno managed to kick the shit out of us in the Bowl Game with their feeble resources. And having WSU and OSU in the mix, along with the PAC name, can't help but get the MTN West people a better TV deal. Shit Fresno /Wyoming was on - I think - ESPN2 last night?

But we have to have tings in motion yesterday. The court thing will not be settled on Nov. 14. You attorneys on this Board can speak to that better than me.

And edit: I don't know if cutting a scheduling deal with the plan being that we will poach 6 of them afterwards would fly very far with the MTN West. Nor would having it be our secret agenda seem very ethical to this Coug. All or none I say.

You're the first to say it Coug1. I've read others on here say that the Pac2 should make a scheduling agreement with the MWC and then rob them of their best teams the following year. I shake my head and say that won't fly with Gloria Nevarez. I can't see any scheduling agreement happening like that.

I believe the MWC wants to merge into the Pac12 rather than have the Pac2 join the MWC. Hopefully you guys win out in court and make the best move for yourselves.

 

[Dave_86]

Thanks Beav. So what do you Beavs think about the future of the Pac 2? Over here, everyone but me sez we need to wait for the court/money thing to get settled before we do anything. Which could take years. I supposed we could have 12 home and home games next year and beyond.

Most hold out feeble hope for a Big12 invite.

One of our loons - uh I mean posters - is determined that we need to go get Memphis, USF, Tulane and some other far East teams to fill in the Pac2. Never mind that there is no apparent interest from any of them.

My much-maligned approach is simple. Go to the Mtn West. Talk them into dissolving and joining the PAC to make the Pac-14. If we insist on "waiting", go the the MTN west and negotiate a "guest" slot in their scheduling for 2024 while the legal dust hopefully settles.

First, my apologies for high jacking this thread!!! (Mods - you can spin this out into a new thread if you like)

I hang out at "Benny's House". Recently someone did a poll and about 75% of all responding Beavers would take a Big-12 membership if it was offered. A few posters did point out that if WSU & OSU were able to leave now for the Big-12, then we would miss out on dividing all the PAC-12 assets 2 ways.

The number of posters at "Benny's House" were advocating "just join the MWC and be done with it" seems to be dying. I've argued against doing that as it would demote OSU & WSU to G5 status. We are Power-5 schools and we need to work to keep it that way.

The reverse merger idea to create a PAC-14 with the MWC seems to be dying, too. I'd argue that is also demoting OSU and WSU to G5 status.

That leaves the "promotion & relegation" scheme along with "poach 6 MWC schools". A small percentage of us favor these schemes, myself included. My concern about "promotion & relegation" is whether or not the college football industry would see the promoted division as being a Power-5 level conference.

Poaching 6 schools from the MWC would start with Boise State and Fresno State for their football credentials. While it seems like a rough thing to do to the 6 schools left behind, the fact is there are several schools in the MWC that probably see themselves as Power-5 schools. And these would-be Power-5 schools can never reach that designation while sharing a conference with schools like New Mexico, Nevada, and Wyoming.

Rebuilding with Memphis, Tulane, and other AAC schools? Those schools probably want Big-12 or ACC membership if they could get it, instead of helping WSU & OSU rebuilt the PAC-12. On the other side of the country.

Let's stick together, Cougars.

 

[95coug]

The idea of poaching 6 schools from the MWC won’t work. To modify or escape their payouts, or to manage any sort of a reverse merger, requires a “yes” vote from 9 or the 12 MWC teams. We’d get a yes from the 6 we poached. We would not get 3 votes from the ones being left behind.

It would also be the same kind of dick move we’ve been complaining about from the traitorous 10. Not that that really matters to the decision makers

 

[Loyal Coug1]

First, my apologies for high jacking this thread!!! (Mods - you can spin this out into a new thread if you like)

I hang out at "Benny's House". Recently someone did a poll and about 75% of all responding Beavers would take a Big-12 membership if it was offered. A few posters did point out that if WSU & OSU were able to leave now for the Big-12, then we would miss out on dividing all the PAC-12 assets 2 ways.

The number of posters at "Benny's House" were advocating "just join the MWC and be done with it" seems to be dying. I've argued against doing that as it would demote OSU & WSU to G5 status. We are Power-5 schools and we need to work to keep it that way.

The reverse merger idea to create a PAC-14 with the MWC seems to be dying, too. I'd argue that is also demoting OSU and WSU to G5 status.

That leaves the "promotion & relegation" scheme along with "poach 6 MWC schools". A small percentage of us favor these schemes, myself included. My concern about "promotion & relegation" is whether or not the college football industry would see the promoted division as being a Power-5 level conference.

Poaching 6 schools from the MWC would start with Boise State and Fresno State for their football credentials. While it seems like a rough thing to do to the 6 schools left behind, the fact is there are several schools in the MWC that probably see themselves as Power-5 schools. And these would-be Power-5 schools can never reach that designation while sharing a conference with schools like New Mexico, Nevada, and Wyoming.

Rebuilding with Memphis, Tulane, and other AAC schools? Those schools probably want Big-12 or ACC membership if they could get it, instead of helping WSU & OSU rebuilt the PAC-12. On the other side of the country.

Let's stick together, Cougars.

Mods!? Hahahahaha! We ain't got no stinking Mods. This is the Wild West.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The idea of poaching 6 schools from the MWC won’t work. To modify or escape their payouts, or to manage any sort of a reverse merger, requests a “yes” vote from 9 or the 12 MWC teams. We’d get a yes from the 6 we poached. We would not get 3 votes from the ones being left behind.

It would also be the same kind of dick move we’ve been complaining about from the traitorous 10. Not that that really matters to the decision makers

Well I suppose we could go back 45 years to when we poached UA and ASU from the WAC. Or 2010(?) when we poached Utah from the Mtn West. But that's 2 schools and one school as compared to 4 and 4.

Nope. If we do enter a "guest" scheduling agreement with the Mtn West, it's gotta be transparent. Either we get a 2025 invite to the Big 12 (which I personally don't want) or they merge into th Pac14 lock, stock and barrel.

BTW, the Power 5 vs G5 thing is mostly about the money split, correct? And money being what? Not TV contracts.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

You're the first to say it Coug1. I've read others on here say that the Pac2 should make a scheduling agreement with the MWC and then rob them of their best teams the following year. I shake my head and say that won't fly with Gloria Nevarez. I can't see any scheduling agreement happening like that.

I believe the MWC wants to merge into the Pac12 rather than have the Pac2 join the MWC. Hopefully you guys win out in court and make the best move for yourselves

Hang around Meister. Interested in hearing what the Mtn West folks are saying as we go down this road.

 

[Dave_86]

The idea of poaching 6 schools from the MWC won’t work. To modify or escape their payouts, or to manage any sort of a reverse merger, requires a “yes” vote from 9 or the 12 MWC teams. We’d get a yes from the 6 we poached. We would not get 3 votes from the ones being left behind.

It would also be the same kind of dick move we’ve been complaining about from the traitorous 10. Not that that really matters to the decision makers

About poaching schools from the Mountain West: aren't schools like Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming being a bunch of selfish jerks by expecting other schools like Boise St., Fresno St., and San Diego St. to remain the MWC instead of moving on to a Power-5 conference and realizing their potential?

Regarding the exit fees for the MWC... the fee for a school to leave with less than 1 year of notice is $34M. To get 6 schools to leave, then it would cost 6 x $34M = $204M. A lot of money. 3 potential ways around this...

1) The 2 year stall plan is used. This has been discussed on OSU & WSU websites. Here's an interview with Kirk Shultz where, at about the 16:55 mark, he admits it is feasible...

www.komonews.com/news/local/washington-state-university-wsu-oregon-state-university-osu-pac-12-athletic-director-president-assets-acc-apple-cup-scheduling-pullman-conference-realignment-big-ten-college-football-athletics-sports

2) WSU & OSU win their legal battles against the PAC-12 and use the money to pay the $204M exit fees. Well done, Cougars, for lawyering up with top notch legal talent. Love having you guys for an allie.

3) In the spirit of wishful thinking, a couple of threads at this Utah State forum has discussed the possibility of legally challenging the $34M exit fee. As in, if 6 schools leave, did $204M in damages occur against the 6 schools left behind (and TV network)? One or two posters in these 2 threads think the $34M exit fee is excessive and would not hold up in court.

www.usufans.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68259
www.usufans.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68479

This 3rd item deals with the topic of "liquidated damages", and before this conference alignment thing is all said and done, we might all be ready to take a bar examination.

 

[425cougfan]

Agree, all or none. As much as I'd rather we pick and choose that would be total hypocrisy

Hypocritical, yes, but also how this works every single time in every other conference realignment situation, and likely always will. Having WSU (and OSU) get stiffed both ways doesn't sound great to me either.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Hypocritical, yes, but also how this works every single time in every other conference realignment situation, and likely always will. Having WSU (and OSU) get stiffed both ways doesn't sound great to me either.

So we poach the 6 "best" Mtn West teams. Pac-8? Really? We need at least 10 and preferably 12 or more. which means take them all. If you look at the schools, many are land grant and R1, stadiums are mostly about as big as ours, Many are in semi-rural areas.

Much as I wish we could get the Pac-12 back, that ship has sailed. We fit with the Mtn West schools. We can compete, have good schedules, win league titles. Whether we get kicked out of the Power 5 or not is a question for down the road. Hell Wyoming beat Texas last year and beat Texas Tech this year. But they aren't good enough for us?

 

[95coug]

So we poach the 6 "best" Mtn West teams. Pac-8? Really? We need at least 10 and preferably 12 or more. which means take them all. If you look at the schools, many are land grant and R1, stadiums are mostly about as big as ours, Many are in semi-rural areas.

Much as I wish we could get the Pac-12 back, that ship has sailed. We fit with the Mtn West schools. We can compete, have good schedules, win league titles. Whether we get kicked out of the Power 5 or not is a question for down the road. Hell Wyoming beat Texas last year and beat Texas Tech this year. But they aren't good enough for us?

Take 9 of them. Dump SJSU, New Mexico, and Hawaii. I know people want Hawaii as the vacation spot, but if we're getting less revenue we also need to dump travel costs, and that's a big one. SJSU and UNM are perennial losers with zero fan base.

That could give us 9 votes in favor from the MWC, which is what we need for anything to happen.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Take 9 of them. Dump SJSU, New Mexico, and Hawaii. I know people want Hawaii as the vacation spot, but if we're getting less revenue we also need to dump travel costs, and that's a big one. SJSU and UNM are perennial losers with zero fan base.

That could give us 9 votes in favor from the MWC, which is what we need for anything to happen.

Glad to see you all are finally coming around on the Mtn West merger scenario.

 

[95coug]

Glad to see you all are finally coming around on the Mtn West merger scenario.

I've figured it was basically inevitable for a while. I don't necessarily like it, and I don't really even want most of those 9. But we can't go it alone, and I don't buy for a second that the Big 12 is about to come calling.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Take 9 of them. Dump SJSU, New Mexico, and Hawaii. I know people want Hawaii as the vacation spot, but if we're getting less revenue we also need to dump travel costs, and that's a big one. SJSU and UNM are perennial losers with zero fan base.

That could give us 9 votes in favor from the MWC, which is what we need for anything to happen.

Hawaii is in the MWC for football only. Travel costs aren't that much of an issue as they do pay travel subsidies. If UNLV is fortunate to be one invited to the Pac12 I do not see UNLV vote against Hawaii. I've mentioned somewhere on this forum that I see it would be a public relations nightmare for Las Vegas to vote against Hawaii especially with Las Vegas considered to be their 9th Island.

UNM is a keeper for basketball. I think they make the NCAA Tourney this year. Their fans will travel for basketball in particular to a conference tournament. With the right football coach, which they haven't had since Rocky Long, they have potential.

Personally, I would prefer we leave behind a different set of schools but, I don't wish to trash talk our conference members in another conference forum.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Hawaii is in the MWC for football only. Travel costs aren't that much of an issue as they do pay travel subsidies. If UNLV is fortunate to be one invited to the Pac12 I do not see UNLV vote against Hawaii. I've mentioned somewhere on this forum that I see it would be a public relations nightmare for Las Vegas to vote against Hawaii especially with Las Vegas considered to be their 9th Island.

UNM is a keeper for basketball. I think they make the NCAA Tourney this year. Their fans will travel for basketball in particular to a conference tournament. With the right football coach, which they haven't had since Rocky Long, they have potential.

Personally, I would prefer we leave behind a different set of schools but, I don't wish to trash talk our conference members in another conference forum.

Like Boise State trucking college?

 

[95coug]

Like Boise State trucking college?

I'd definitely be fine leaving them behind. But I don't think that's realistic.

If we're being honest, I could make specific arguments against including just about every member of the MWC. But, we aren't going to make it on our own and we've already seen who's willing to invite us to dance.