Rolo lands Shumpert
- Thread starter etowncoug
- Start date
Mike will be happy. He will probably rate this as a 8.9 - 9.2 or maybe 9.6 but not a 10 on his scale of good news.
And we may be happy, too. This guy can play with a chip on his shoulder, after all the recruiting gurus valued his team mates more highly than they valued him. That can lead to a lot of motivation. Inside receiver is a tough position. A guy has to first catch the ball, then he has to hold on after getting crushed. You could make a case that it is the position where intestinal fortitude is most important...certainly nobody who is hesitant can play the position. He is playing at the school where he wanted to play. I have no doubt he will work his *ss off to try to earn PT. Either he will eventually get there, or he will push others harder. Maybe both. Either way, WSU benefits from his presence. And if he is one of those rare sticky-fingered guys who hangs on to the ball regardless of what happens after he catches it, then he will see the field. My military friends have all told me pretty much the same thing over the past 50-ish years...until you are in combat, you don't know for certain how you will react. P5 competition has some similarities; until they face it, they don't know for sure. The PWO group are all playing because they want to, and because they have something to prove to themselves. They all probably are better in their later lives for having tried, and some of them actually succeed and get on the field. I wish Mr. Shumpert the very best. I will root for him.
And we may be happy, too. This guy can play with a chip on his shoulder, after all the recruiting gurus valued his team mates more highly than they valued him. That can lead to a lot of motivation. Inside receiver is a tough position. A guy has to first catch the ball, then he has to hold on after getting crushed. You could make a case that it is the position where intestinal fortitude is most important...certainly nobody who is hesitant can play the position. He is playing at the school where he wanted to play. I have no doubt he will work his *ss off to try to earn PT. Either he will eventually get there, or he will push others harder. Maybe both. Either way, WSU benefits from his presence. And if he is one of those rare sticky-fingered guys who hangs on to the ball regardless of what happens after he catches it, then he will see the field. My military friends have all told me pretty much the same thing over the past 50-ish years...until you are in combat, you don't know for certain how you will react. P5 competition has some similarities; until they face it, they don't know for sure. The PWO group are all playing because they want to, and because they have something to prove to themselves. They all probably are better in their later lives for having tried, and some of them actually succeed and get on the field. I wish Mr. Shumpert the very best. I will root for him.
While I am happy for Shumpert, that's not why I wanted Rolo to either offer a scholly or preferred walk on to Shumpert.
I wanted Rolo to do that because if he had done so EARLIER, he might probably would have gotten at least 1 of the Kennedy 4 star WR's.
Altho this getting Shumpert makes sense, it doesnt make sense why he didnt do this EARLIER.
I think its worth it to offer a preferred walk on to Shumpert, even if your not sure on, about that, and dont want to do that, to get a 4 star WR friend of Shumpert.
But if Rolo decided to not do that, then even tho I would disagree, I would understand.
If Rolo had said no to Shumpert, that would be understandable.
What doesnt make sense tho, is that Rolo is saying Yes to Shumpert, albeit LATE.
I mean if your going to say YES to Shumpert, then why not EARLIER, back when 4 star Alexander said that if Rolo says yes to Shumpert going to WSU, that he would goto WSU too.
If I was Rolo, I would have immediatly put that to the test.
I would have given the preferred Walk on to Shumpert back then, with the expectation, and or putting Alexander to the test of his word saying he would goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
But Alexander couldnt wait forever for Rolo to get around to saying Yes to Shumpert.
If Rolo had said no to Shumpert, never said yes to Shumpert, that would have made sense or more sense then not saying yes earlier, losing Alexander because of that, then saying yes after that, after losing Alexander, because didnt say yes to Shumpert earlier.
I mean if your going to say yes to Shumpert, then why not say yes to Shumpert earlier, so that could get 4 star WR Alexander?
Altho I am happy for Shumpert, and think this a good get for Rolo, I think Rolo mishandled this, blew getting 4 star WR Alexander, could have done better if he had offered Shumpert earlier, and had gotten 4 star WR Alexander.
And the way Rolo has handled this doesnt make sense to me.
I wanted Rolo to do that because if he had done so EARLIER, he might probably would have gotten at least 1 of the Kennedy 4 star WR's.
Altho this getting Shumpert makes sense, it doesnt make sense why he didnt do this EARLIER.
I think its worth it to offer a preferred walk on to Shumpert, even if your not sure on, about that, and dont want to do that, to get a 4 star WR friend of Shumpert.
But if Rolo decided to not do that, then even tho I would disagree, I would understand.
If Rolo had said no to Shumpert, that would be understandable.
What doesnt make sense tho, is that Rolo is saying Yes to Shumpert, albeit LATE.
I mean if your going to say YES to Shumpert, then why not EARLIER, back when 4 star Alexander said that if Rolo says yes to Shumpert going to WSU, that he would goto WSU too.
If I was Rolo, I would have immediatly put that to the test.
I would have given the preferred Walk on to Shumpert back then, with the expectation, and or putting Alexander to the test of his word saying he would goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
But Alexander couldnt wait forever for Rolo to get around to saying Yes to Shumpert.
If Rolo had said no to Shumpert, never said yes to Shumpert, that would have made sense or more sense then not saying yes earlier, losing Alexander because of that, then saying yes after that, after losing Alexander, because didnt say yes to Shumpert earlier.
I mean if your going to say yes to Shumpert, then why not say yes to Shumpert earlier, so that could get 4 star WR Alexander?
Altho I am happy for Shumpert, and think this a good get for Rolo, I think Rolo mishandled this, blew getting 4 star WR Alexander, could have done better if he had offered Shumpert earlier, and had gotten 4 star WR Alexander.
And the way Rolo has handled this doesnt make sense to me.
I would much prefer Rolo takes Shumpert as a walk on, than him offering a scholarship to a player he considers subpar to bring in his friend - which ultimately probably would have ended with the good WR flipping a day before signing and us with a schollie player we could have had as a walk on.
WSU/Rolo could still have offered a NON scholly Prefered Walk On offer to say YES to Shumpert and 4, FOUR STAR WR Alexander IMMEDIATLY, after Alexander said, promised to goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
Failure to do that was a FAIL.
And if Rolo had done that like he should have, that would not have deprived WSU of a Scholly, and that would not have STUCK WSU with a Scholly, had Alexander flipped a day before signing.
Also it wasnt bloody likely that he would have flipped, since there was every bloody damn likely indication that he would have gone to WSU if Shumpert went to WSU, because Shumpert was his BEST FRIEND/Practically family, and since he promised he would goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
But even if Alexander hadnt gone to WSU if Rolo had either offered a scholly, or a preferred walk on offer Earlier.
If that had happened, it still would have been a worthwhile risk, gamble to try to get a 4, FOUR STAR WR.
Also Shumpert is a 3, THREE STAR recruit according to the experts, recruiting services, like 247,etc.
Getting Stuck with a scholly to a 3 STAR RECRUIT, isnt a bad thing, especially since Rolo was offering SCHOLLIES to 2, TWO STAR RECRUITS over 3 STAR recruit Shumpert.
Its good that Rolo offered Shumpert a Preferred Walk On Late in the process, LAST SECOND.
But making Alexander 4 star WR WAIT FOREVER, and not offer Shumpert earlier, and thus losing Alexander was, is a FAIL on Rolo's part, and doesnt make sense.
Failure to do that was a FAIL.
And if Rolo had done that like he should have, that would not have deprived WSU of a Scholly, and that would not have STUCK WSU with a Scholly, had Alexander flipped a day before signing.
Also it wasnt bloody likely that he would have flipped, since there was every bloody damn likely indication that he would have gone to WSU if Shumpert went to WSU, because Shumpert was his BEST FRIEND/Practically family, and since he promised he would goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
But even if Alexander hadnt gone to WSU if Rolo had either offered a scholly, or a preferred walk on offer Earlier.
If that had happened, it still would have been a worthwhile risk, gamble to try to get a 4, FOUR STAR WR.
Also Shumpert is a 3, THREE STAR recruit according to the experts, recruiting services, like 247,etc.
Getting Stuck with a scholly to a 3 STAR RECRUIT, isnt a bad thing, especially since Rolo was offering SCHOLLIES to 2, TWO STAR RECRUITS over 3 STAR recruit Shumpert.
Its good that Rolo offered Shumpert a Preferred Walk On Late in the process, LAST SECOND.
But making Alexander 4 star WR WAIT FOREVER, and not offer Shumpert earlier, and thus losing Alexander was, is a FAIL on Rolo's part, and doesnt make sense.
I am of the opinion that if you take kids as a package deal and one of them walk, the offer is pulled. Either both or none. And I wouldn't blame WSU, I'd blame the kids buddy that screwed him.
I agree Biggs, but thats not what happened with Alexander/Shumpert/WSU.
WSU, Rolo didnt offer a scholly to Shumpert. Rolo/WSU didnt even offer a NON Scholly Preferred Walk On offer to Shumpert EARLIER.
So there was NOTHING, no scholly to PULL, if Alexander didnt goto WSU.
Alexander said, promised he would goto WSU if Shumpert went to WSU.
But Rolo didnt offer anything to Shumpert Earlier.
If he had, then Alexander Likely would have gone to WSU.
But since Rolo didnt even offer a Preferred Walk on EARLIER, and made Alexander WAIT FOREVER:
Alexander was like: Paraphrased(what he was probably thinking, thought, woukd have said):
"Hey since your not offering even a Preferred Walk On to Shumpert, after me waiting a LONG TIME, then I am not gona wait forever for, only tp have nothing happen, and so because of that, I'll go somewhere else instead of to WSU."
Now if Rolo had offered either a scholly, or a preferred walk on earlier, and then if Alexander then didnt goto WSU, then yeah, Rolo, WSU could then pull Shumpert's either Scholly, Preferred Walk on.
But even if Rolo/WSU would have been stuck with a Scholly, Preferred Walk on to Shumpert, it would have been worth the risk, and 3 STAR Shumpert getting a scholly not a bad thing, especially since Rolo gave schollies to 2 STAR RECRUITS over a 3 star recruit in Shumpert
I've never been a fan of any package deal concept.
If you listen to Rolo, they only want guys who genuinely want to come to Pullman and be a Coug. I don't sense that means, i'm only coming to Pullman if my "bestie" gets an offer with me.
If you listen to Rolo, they only want guys who genuinely want to come to Pullman and be a Coug. I don't sense that means, i'm only coming to Pullman if my "bestie" gets an offer with me.
I do not believe for a minute that if Rolo had offered Shumpert a scholarship and he accepted, that Alexander would have signed with WSU. 17 year old's (really, people of all ages) say a lot of things that they either do not mean or change they their mind.
If they weren’t gonna be broken up, why did Alexander end up and ASU and Tinae at UW. The package thing was fluff the whole time and was nothing more then an Instagram tagline.
Walk-Ons
yawning.............
in order for the program to evolve, we should be worried about Winning Recruiting battles over other Pac12 schools.... not worrying about walk-ons.
yawning.............
in order for the program to evolve, we should be worried about Winning Recruiting battles over other Pac12 schools.... not worrying about walk-ons.
WSU has been successful with walk-ons and in fact, I think it was our first Rose Bowl team that had quite a few walk-ons who were contributors. You are right about winning PAC 12 recruiting wars but a good walk-on program can be very important and I think a player the quality of Shumpert coming in is worthy of a discussion.
Shumpert is a 3, THREE STAR recruit, according to the official experts, recruit ranking services.
Rolo gave schollies to 2, TWO STAR recruits over 3 star recruit Shumpert.
Also by Rolo giving a Preferred Walk on last second to 3 star Shumpert:
1. ALL the schollies were already given out.
2. Rolo/WSU would have had to yank a scholly, from one of the 2 STARS in the class, put that 2 star on a Preferred Walk On, and then give that scholly to the 3 Star Shumpert, if Rolo would, was, wanted to give a scholly to 3 star Shumpert.
4,5 star DB transfer Hector was given a Preferred Walk on.
The reason why Hector didnt get a scholly:
1. All Schollies given out
2. Rolo would have had to Yank a scholly.
3. There was character/academic concerns, questions.
So Hector is kind of, sorta almost comparable to Shumpert, as far as both 3 star recruits, and 4,5 star recruits usually get schollies.
Shumpert is a 3 star recruit.
3 star recruits are usually, generally ok, semi good, can be D1, Mid Major, P5, Pac 12, even NFL recruits, players, if they pan out, develop, get coached up, etc.
And as such 3 star recruits are usually, generally worth a scholly, depending on the situation, program, etc.
Part of the reason why Shumpert wasnt given a scholly, or preferred walk on earlier:
1. Rolo not wanting to do so because that might mean other packaged deals in future.
2. Rolo wont be strong armed by a packaged deal.
3. There was better WR targets.
4. The WSU WR corp is one of the best in Pac 12, extrenely deep and Talented(At least that was what was thought, believed at the time, before departures like Tay Martin, etc).
5. The defense needs were extremely great.
All that combined to make a perfect storm that caused, of not having 3 star Shumpert getting a scholly offer from Rolo, while 2 Star defense recruits got scholly offers from Rolo.
According to the official experts, recruit ranking services like 247, etc, Shumpert is a 3 star WR, that is worth a scholly offer
So Shumpert like Hector, etc, is more then a typical Preferred Walk on or non preferred walk on, walk on.
Rolo/WSU getting a 3 star WR Shumpert at, for a, the Preferred Walk on price, instead of the scholly price is a good thing.
Now we will just have to wait and see if he 3 star WR Shumpert, develops, gets coached up, pans out, meets his on paper potential.
3 star WR Shumpert, is rated as a 3 star WR and worth a scholly by the official experts, recruit ranking services like 247.
The only reason why Shumpert wasnt either recruited or recruited more heavily by Pac 12:
1. He was a late bloomer.
2. He was overshadowed by 2 other 4 star WR's at his HS.
3. Because of above he was diamond in the rough, under the radar, either misevaluated, unscouted, etc.
4. Pretty much the only ones aware of Shumpert was the official experts, recruit ranking services like 247.
5. There are a lot of 3 star/even 4 star recruits, according to 247, etc, that dont get offered by the Pac 12, or get more heavily recruited by the Pac 12.
Example would be Klay Thompson 4 Star, who only had 2 Pac 12 offers, one of which was WSU.
5. Also the other pac 12 programs, knew that Shumpert was GUNG HO, was a LOCK for WSU, so because of that, why offer him.
I am willing to bet that Shumpert would have turned down a Pac 12 offer to accept a preferred walk on offer to WSU as that's how bad he wants to play for WSU, and I bet the other Pac 12 programs knew that, and so because of that, why bother to offer.
All of those reasons combined is why he didnt get pac 12 offers
There is a reason why 247, etc, is, are saying that Shumpert is a 3 star WR recruit, that is a D1, Mid Major, Low P5 Major, Low Pac 12 major, scholly worthy recruit.
Now we will have to wait and see if 3 star Shumpert develops, gets coached up, pans out, meets his on paper potential.
Sounds like we probably should never had recruited Bartilone, Cracraft and Falk.
Should have probably played Sale and others instead of the likes of Dahl, Bosch, Eckland and any other walk-on who played .
I don’t think Cracraft was a walk on. WADR to Bartilone, he wouldn’t get a snap with this group of receivers today. He was fringe Pac-12 talent. I generally agree with what I think you are saying about walk ons though, when you are a program like WSU you can’t overlook them. WSU has always had a good number of former walk ons that end up being regular contributors, even on our most talented squads.
I’d imagine a guy like Shumpert being a walk on probably comes with that same chip on shoulder as an undrafted guy who makes an NFL squad.
“TOO FUNNY”
Classic E.D. Post...
80% of what he just wrote is dead ass wrong or just his jaded opinion about everything Leach. He even adds in Niu Sale as his poster child for Leach’s recruiting.
Yawn.........
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I will see your "too funny" and raise to "too hilarious", CE the irony escapes you.
You seemed to have poo pooed getting a kid to walk-on and then claim we need to look at players that have other Pac 12 offers. That is how our program evolves.
Yet i point out Bartilone and Cracraft weren't players that were recruited by the Pac 12. While Bartilone didn't have great physical skill, he was very good at understanding the slot position and how important it is in the Air Raid. Even Jeff Tuel played better in the Apple Cup because Bartilone knew the angles and creases.
I brought up sale because be was a highly thought of recruit yet couldnt break the line up. It was again about the value of walk-ons, not what Leach did and didn't do.
I have said Leach in 12 had a good class, and in 13 had an exceptional class that was the foundation of 15/16/17. I thought his misses in 14 were critical.
I will tell you probably for 100th time, I like Leach very much. I have other reasons why I wish he didn't leave, reasons you A and M brain could not fathom. . I do wish he took the Tennessee job because it is a great job for 1, it would have been a step up. And WSU was deep at that point and it would have given the new coach a deeper roster to deal with.
But feel free to let your A and M imagination run wild.
It's fairly obvious, after watching recruiting since 1999, that recruiting is a giant crap shoot. The odds of any kid stepping on campus and being an all conference contributor are long. Some will pan out, most won't.
If you grouped players in the last 20 years by:
10+ P5 offers
5-9 P5 offers
3-4 P5 offers
2 P5 offers
1 P5 offer
No other P5 offers
I think you'd see a much higher success rate top to bottom. Of the kids who didn't succeed higher up the list, I also think there would be a higher percentage of kids with off the field issues or transferred because they got homesick and what not.
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has concluded our ticket to more consistent success is landing kids who received more attention on the recruiting trail. At the same time, the more walk-ons we can get who have had offers for a free education elsewhere is a nice step forward as well.
With Reed Shumpert, I think he's a much bigger talent than we typically get as a walk on and I think he's an extreme long shot for PT. Rolo doesn't rotate WR's like Leach did and it's looking like he's still signing 4-5 WR's a year. It'll be hard to get the opportunities to break into the two deeps.
Do you wish that Price had left after the 2001
season? Or after the 1996 season when Minnesota offered him a job?
Why would I pine over Price? He isn’t even my all time favorite coach . I like Leach, he was good for the era he was here. There are things I like about Rolo. But we will see if he is up for the job.
You know life for me doesn’t get stuck . Yes I remember times . But what you are saying is akin to me pining for my first girlfriend. Am I glad I had her in my life ? Yep. Would I want her in my daily life in 2021. Nope.
Same could be said for Price, Erickson, Walden and even Leach.
If a coach gets 50% of his classes to be productive ... that is a good class. Recruiting and evaluation is a difficult gig at WSU .
Ummm Mik.... negotiations are different now versus early signing period. Not sure we don’t know if he said to Shunpert back in August .. “we would love to have to come to WSU as a walk on. “Pound sand coach so and so is looking at me.
Often athletes mistake inquiries, visits , and interest as an offer .
if Shunpert had a better offer he would have taken it .
The hard part in recruiting isn't finding talent. P5 kids have stats. They’ve scored 20 touchdowns in a season. They’ve started for 3 yrs. They’re 6’7” or 250lbs+. They stick out. They run like the wind blows, make plays all over the field, etc. Finding great ballplayers is not hard.
The hard part is what’s between the ears. Is this kid a 4-5 year kid? Does he have off the field issues? Will he be able to do the coursework needed to see his senior year? Is he a mama’s boy that will leave after a semester? Does he make good decisions in adversity? Drugs, alcohol??? These are the things that can ruin a school like WSU. What helps WSU compete with SC is having savvy veterans. Kids that have been in the weight room for 4 yrs, kids that have grown into the scheme and have 3 yrs of PT under their belt so the coach can open the playbook...
As soon as WSU starts losing more than its share of kids in a class, could be a tough year coming down the road.
The hard part is what’s between the ears. Is this kid a 4-5 year kid? Does he have off the field issues? Will he be able to do the coursework needed to see his senior year? Is he a mama’s boy that will leave after a semester? Does he make good decisions in adversity? Drugs, alcohol??? These are the things that can ruin a school like WSU. What helps WSU compete with SC is having savvy veterans. Kids that have been in the weight room for 4 yrs, kids that have grown into the scheme and have 3 yrs of PT under their belt so the coach can open the playbook...
As soon as WSU starts losing more than its share of kids in a class, could be a tough year coming down the road.
Think that Minnesota offer was fugazi.
Don't think Price ever had a legit offer prior to 2002 - not because he was a bad coach but because of the lack of gravitas.
To overcome dressing up as mascots stories and his Gee Whiz public persona Price would have needed to cut the testicles off of a bull, message board poster or Womyn's Studies professor.
Remember, Livengood was forced to take Price. Livengood wanted former UW hack Ray Door who was his coach at Southern Illinois.
Also think inferior coaches (in Price's eyes) getting NFL gigs (Rich Brooks, Mike Riley) bugged him. (Pretty sure Uncle Dennis success was OK to him).
Your favorite coach "does it the right way", inherited a dadgum drug problem, and honored other's teams verbals?
If WSU didn't want walk-ons would they have put the steam tunnels underneath the sidewalks leading to Bohler Gym?
One of the 24/7 "experts" is a condescending 400 lb Whitman grad who regularly overrates King County players.
What happens if a 500 lb Whitworth grad appears on the scene at 24/7 and starts overrating the GSL players?
Would coaches then have to rely on their own judgment? (...the horror)
Minnesota was legit. It was reported in the Evergreen, I read the article as a student at the time. Some people were surprised Price stayed.
Edit- https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1996/dec/04/guess-who-came-to-dinner-price-unearthed-in/
Doba? Actually my fav coach had a bunch of misfits back in the day. Millard. Junior Tupulo(SIC). He was a menace. Even Lee Blakeny thought it was cool to shoot at a crop duster. Yeah, Walden had his own personal problems when it came to off the field behavior.
