The formula for disaster …we saw it in 2008

[PINGDUDE4]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Leach himself will be inquiring about the job if things keep going the way they are in Starkville.

Probably a long shot but actually would not be totally shocked to see that happening.

He is not doing that bad at Miss. State they have lost 2 games by a total of 4 points and beat a Top 20 team.

But I think he is finding that is a weird fan base, which act like they are entitled when historically they actually have a really bad record.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I think you are forgetting that Connor damn near had his leg snapped in half and Falk had his head bouncing off the turf like it was a basketball. I still worry about his health.

Falk also started for almost 3.5 years. Of course he got hit a few times. He missed, what, 2 starts?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Saw some guy on twitter arguing for Mike Levenseller. So, there are still those Coug fans out there. 😂

 

[CougEd]

We could get some decent candidates and should expect to land a solid candidate, certainly, but remember what it was like all the way back in ... 2019. There was a lot more talk--and yes, I know it was driven by agents reaching out to Brand X and I don't mean to suggest they ever were taken seriously, but in part it reflects the reality of our situation--about laughable retreads like Mora and Neuheisel than there was about any of the nationally-known hot commodities we might fantasize about getting.

Just look around the Pac-12, too -- UW elevated Lake and he seemed to have a hard time finding decent coordinators. Colorado hired Dorrell, paying him more than $3m a year. That seem exciting? Guys like Harrell and Grinch aren't taking the job. They know what it's like to have a talent deficiency every week and they know they are in line for better gigs elsewhere. Their wives also wouldn't let them.

With all that in mind, then realize that the situation now is much worse than it was than when Leach left. We weren't getting anything better than a Mountain West graduate even when Leach had left things in pretty good shape and the program was viewed with relative positivity.

Even if we pay the head man $3m or more, that's still just a P5 market wage, not as much as anyone can make in some other conferences, even if a good, solid Pac-12 wage, and we still have a bottom-quartile assistant pool and all the other stuff that makes it a coach-assailer if not necessarily a coach-killer.

Not being defeatist, just my take on reality, which is where I reside most of the time.

Best thing I've heard by far is Banks. He might go for it. I don't think he could expect to land a better HC gig anytime soon.

Saw some guy on twitter arguing for Mike Levenseller. So, there are still those Coug fans out there. 😂

You know … if I was a coach and needed to to scour every part of the west coast for talent , I would find a way to get the retired guys to be part of the program to evaluate hs talent . There have been kids slip through the cracks.

I think Alabama probably has more staff than we have football players.

You think Gilbertson could consult and watch our line and not be helpful? No they aren’t full time coaches or even six months , but I would look for a way to tap into their genius .

 

[spongeandshoot]

Falk also started for almost 3.5 years. Of course he got hit a few times. He missed, what, 2 starts?

I would argue he got hit more than a few times. He was pretty banged up much of the time.. He seemed to go through his reads much slower his senior year.

A lesser man wouldn't have made all those starts imo

 

[425cougfan]

You know … if I was a coach and needed to to scour every part of the west coast for talent , I would find a way to get the retired guys to be part of the program to evaluate hs talent . There have been kids slip through the cracks.

I think Alabama probably has more staff than we have football players.

You think Gilbertson could consult and watch our like and not help out . No they aren’t full time coaches or even six months , but I would look for a way to tap into their genius .

Think there's something to this, Ed, and it's an underdiscussed aspect of the disparities between programs.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Saw some guy on twitter arguing for Mike Levenseller. So, there are still those Coug fans out there. 😂

He can coach. He cant recruit for shit. But he can coach.

 

[dgibbons]

Would be very 2020/21/WSU for WSU to hire a guy from Marin County who winds up making a national story out of not wanting to get vaccinated, and is framed as a player's coach but has whatever you'd want to describe the Kassidy Woods issues as, and then wound up with Mike Leach coaching here again.

As Princess Leia said “We can only hope.”

 

[dgibbons]

You know … if I was a coach and needed to to scour every part of the west coast for talent , I would find a way to get the retired guys to be part of the program to evaluate hs talent . There have been kids slip through the cracks.

I think Alabama probably has more staff than we have football players.

You think Gilbertson could consult and watch our like and not help out . No they aren’t full time coaches or even six months , but I would look for a way to tap into their genius .

Alabama has an unlimited payroll for “consultants” or whatever Saban calls the guys he picks up for career rebounds. WSU does not.

Are you going to be the volunteer coordinator?

 

[spongeandshoot]

You know … if I was a coach and needed to to scour every part of the west coast for talent , I would find a way to get the retired guys to be part of the program to evaluate hs talent . There have been kids slip through the cracks.

I think Alabama probably has more staff than we have football players.

You think Gilbertson could consult and watch our like and not help out . No they aren’t full time coaches or even six months , but I would look for a way to tap into their genius .

I was just thinking of Gilby the other day and thought maybe we could tap his brain. Rolo brought in Mouse Davis at Hawaii

 

[OrangeGravy]

I've posted before that recruiting the QB position today involves mining the transfer portal. Leach figured that out, Georgia figured it out. Oklahoma had success with it, Utah. Oregon State's top-2 QBs are both transfers, one from Colorado, and their solid looking starter is a JC guy.

I always want WSU to recruit the best high school kid they can get in every class, but I also want them to take advantage of our QB school reputation and go after transfers whenever applicable. It's a huge benefit to being a P5 school. You get to look through the FCS and G5 ranks for kids wanting to make a splash.

That QB school reputation is in fan's minds only. It doesn't play in recruiting. It might have some traction if the head coach is actually a coach that had a history of developing QBs. It won't work for just any coach.

And highly rated high school QBs with asperations of playing in the NFL aren't beating down Leach's door. If anything the air raid QBs reputation at the next level has been a detriment to that. Even if the tide has been changing a bit in that respect.

 

[Coug90]

Saw some guy on twitter arguing for Mike Levenseller. So, there are still those Coug fans out there. 😂

I mean he did coach the Fab 5…you trying to tell us something?

 

[Fab5Coug]

That QB school reputation is in fan's minds only. It doesn't play in recruiting. It might have some traction if the head coach is actually a coach that had a history of developing QBs. It won't work for just any coach.

And highly rated high school QBs with asperations of playing in the NFL aren't beating down Leach's door. If anything the air raid QBs reputation at the next level has been a detriment to that. Even if the tide has been changing a bit in that respect.

I always kind of wondered about that. Do we go into recruiting visits talking about the history of Jack Thompson and Mark Rypien? 17 year olds would be like, "who?" They've maybe heard of Bledsoe, I guess, and Minshew is that "cool guy with the mustache, right?" Really, none of that has to do with Rolovich though.

 

[CougPatrol]

That QB school reputation is in fan's minds only. It doesn't play in recruiting. It might have some traction if the head coach is actually a coach that had a history of developing QBs. It won't work for just any coach.

And highly rated high school QBs with asperations of playing in the NFL aren't beating down Leach's door. If anything the air raid QBs reputation at the next level has been a detriment to that. Even if the tide has been changing a bit in that respect.

I disagree completely with you on this. Leach calling a recruit or a transfer portal prospect and saying "how would you like to lead the Nation in passing," immediately gets them to listen. It's a factual statement. There are air-raid QBs currently on NFL rosters, and leading the Nation in passing opens all kinds of PR doors for your future endeavors (coaching, for starters).

QB school reputations absolutely matter in the recruiting circles. Hell yes they do. Defensive back reputations matter in the recruiting circles. Recruiting is selling, and any salesman worth their salt is going to leverage the fact that we've had #1 & #2 overall NFL draft pics and a slew of other NFL QBs spanning the last 5 decades. "Listen son, it's not a coincidence that WSU produces great QBs. Why are you considering that MWC program? Colorado, Oregon State, Arizona, ASU?"

Not trying to sound like I'm lecturing you here, but WSU is regarded to be a QB producing University. How many schools West of Texas crank out better QBs than us? There are a few, but not many.

 

[dgibbons]

I always kind of wondered about that. Do we go into recruiting visits talking about the history of Jack Thompson and Mark Rypien? 17 year olds would be like, "who?" They've maybe heard of Bledsoe, I guess, and Minshew is that "cool guy with the mustache, right?" Really, none of that has to do with Rolovich though.

Can no longer sell leading the nation in passing.

 

[FnuLnu]

Can no longer sell leading the nation in passing.

What about a day off to go to the Lentil Festival?

 

[CougEd]

What about a day off to go to the Lentil Festival?

View embedded media

Sirius 9-41 wulff all day radio

 

[CougEd]

Alabama has an unlimited payroll for “consultants” or whatever Saban calls the guys he picks up for career rebounds. WSU does not.

Are you going to be the volunteer coordinator?

You don't think these old timers would like to get off the golf course and be involved in the game somehow? It is in their blood.

 

[Observer11]

Give Price, Erickson and Gilby an open tab at Palouse Ridge and they'd be in Pullman every day of football season.

Though hiring a new head coach might be cheaper.

 

[FnuLnu]

Sirius 9-41 wulff all day radio

It is 9-40, the Possum Bowl didn't count for 2 losses.

To your original Gary Rogers was a Pac12 ready as Kegel was Doba when he took over and Gossen was for Price.

Difference was a change in offensive scheme, downgrade in assistants (Yarno vs Harold Etheridge who wrote a book as one of the Wulff worshipers pointed out, but also co-wrote multiple 10 loss seasons everywhere he coached)

Walden likely advised the hostile takeover in 2008 to trade wins then for "improvement" in Year 3 and 4 which could be used for fire in extension talks.

Didn't work for Len Stevens.

 

[etowncoug]

What about a day off to go to the Lentil Festival?

View embedded media

Wow. I'd blocked that from my memory.

 

[CougEd]

It is 9-40, the Possum Bowl didn't count for 2 losses.

To your original Gary Rogers was a Pac12 ready as Kegel was Doba when he took over and Gossen was for Price.

Difference was a change in offensive scheme, downgrade in assistants (Yarno vs Harold Etheridge who wrote a book as one of the Wulff worshipers pointed out, but also co-wrote multiple 10 loss seasons everywhere he coached)

Walden likely advised the hostile takeover in 2008 to trade wins then for "improvement" in Year 3 and 4 which could be used for fire in extension talks.

Didn't work for Len Stevens.

Not sure your point . Gossen was beat out after his injury . Kegel played on one of the most talented teams with tons of experience all around him .

But we have already established wulff is the Antichrist and worst thing ever happened to WSU . Not sure why you want to relive that time since clearly was too painful for you

 

[dgibbons]

You don't think these old timers would like to get off the golf course and be involved in the game somehow? It is in their blood.

No.

 

[FnuLnu]

Not sure your point . Gossen was beat out after his injury . Kegel played on one of the most talented teams with tons of experience all around him .

But we have already established wulff is the Antichrist and worst thing ever happened to WSU . Not sure why you want to relive that time since clearly was too painful for you

Wulff worst thing ever to happen to WSU?

Have to ponder that one.

Len Stevens caused more damage sooner to a better returning squad.

If in the 1950s or 1960s there was serious discussion by WSU of moving the academic calendar to its current form (late August instead of the late September start prior to 1984) and it didn't happen, that would have caused more damage than Wulff's 4 years. (Late September start of Fall Semester = too many Spokane games and too many games away from students and Pullman).

 

[SaveFerris]

Wulff worst thing ever to happen to WSU?

Have to ponder that one.

Len Stevens caused more damage sooner to a better returning squad.

If in the 1950s or 1960s there was serious discussion by WSU of moving the academic calendar to its current form (late August instead of the late September start prior to 1984) and it didn't happen, that would have caused more damage than Wulff's 4 years. (Late September start of Fall Semester = too many Spokane games and too many games away from students and Pullman).

Stevens was way in over his head but Football is far greater impact than hoops. Football numbers also make the rebuild more difficult than in hoops although arguably easier to recruit to Pullman in football.

Wulff's the "winner" here IMO.

 

[425cougfan]

I appreciate Pullman and its virtues, but the worst thing probably was deciding to put WSU there in the first place, if we're being real here. https://explorewashingtonstate.com/wsu-fascinating-history/

 

[kougkurt]

I appreciate Pullman and its virtues, but the worst thing probably was deciding to put WSU there in the first place, if we're being real here. https://explorewashingtonstate.com/wsu-fascinating-history/

Wow. We could have been located in Tacoma.

 

[CougEd]

I appreciate Pullman and its virtues, but the worst thing probably was deciding to put WSU there in the first place, if we're being real here. https://explorewashingtonstate.com/wsu-fascinating-history/

I have said it for years, and they still should put the wine college over in Chelan, but that is where the WSU campus should have been.

 

[425cougfan]

I have said it for years, and they still should put the wine college over in Chelan, but that is where the WSU campus should have been.

That, or even Yakima or -- without intending to reprise the Cougatron 50,000-seat stadium in Ellensburg thing -- Ellensburg could have been solid. Have to imagine what those places would look like with the university there since inception, not what they are now. I bet Ellensburg still would have had I-90 routed through it and would be something more like 120,000 people or so, minimum. Still would have the 509 vs. the west side angle and still would have the university in an agriculture-rich region, but much closer to the main population base and, by being in the middle of the state, not all that far even from Spokane. I suppose, in addition to the possibility of some shenanigans and lobbying -- I've heard a lot of stories about that kind of thing in the context of locating county seats, etc. -- the decisionmakers were thinking more about the significance in that era of bringing ag goods to a state fair (which wouldn't make much sense to put in Pullman) rather than the logistics of sports fans or others trying to get to the university.

 

[FnuLnu]

I have said it for years, and they still should put the wine college over in Chelan, but that is where the WSU campus should have been.

Probably Yakima based on weather & access.

State capitol probably should have been at Steilacoom.

Olympia is as isolated as Pullman (JBLM traffic awful), never got a state college until too late (and doesn't train state hacks well at all) and no private industry.

The "talent" doesn't want to live there.

 

[chugspig]

Would Leach's former players welcome him back without the promise of water balloon fights after the spring game?

That would require another program destroying “culture change”

 

[FnuLnu]

That, or even Yakima or -- without intending to reprise the Cougatron 50,000-seat stadium in Ellensburg thing -- Ellensburg could have been solid. Have to imagine what those places would look like with the university there since inception, not what they are now. I bet Ellensburg still would have had I-90 routed through it and would be something more like 120,000 people or so, minimum. Still would have the 509 vs. the west side angle and still would have the university in an agriculture-rich region, but much closer to the main population base and, by being in the middle of the state, not all that far even from Spokane. I suppose, in addition to the possibility of some shenanigans and lobbying -- I've heard a lot of stories about that kind of thing in the context of locating county seats, etc. -- the decisionmakers were thinking more about the significance in that era of bringing ag goods to a state fair (which wouldn't make much sense to put in Pullman) rather than the logistics of sports fans or others trying to get to the university.

The "Sunset Highway" route from Spokane to Seattle originally didn't go through Ellensburg because Vantage bridge wasn't built for decades.

It was US2 route to one of shorter bridge crossings near Wenatchee, Blewett Pass to Cle Elum, exit near town of Snoqualmie and back roads to Renton and then "Empire Way" to present day Lumen Field. (Mercer Island bridge not built until 1940)

 

[FnuLnu]

I appreciate Pullman and its virtues, but the worst thing probably was deciding to put WSU there in the first place, if we're being real here. https://explorewashingtonstate.com/wsu-fascinating-history/

To be fair that decision not made by WSC itself nor was the decision to give UW the professional school monopoly around WW1.

The school could have been relocated any time up to post WW2 when all the additional physical plant was built up for GI Bill boom.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Probably Yakima based on weather & access.

State capitol probably should have been at Steilacoom.

Olympia is as isolated as Pullman (JBLM traffic awful), never got a state college until too late (and doesn't train state hacks well at all) and no private industry.

The "talent" doesn't want to live there.

It should have been in Spokane. Freeway and airport access, and would have kept Gonzaga the nothing school it was always meant to be.

 

[kougkurt]

Corvallis to Eugene is 45 miles
Seattle to Tacoma is 34 miles.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I disagree completely with you on this. Leach calling a recruit or a transfer portal prospect and saying "how would you like to lead the Nation in passing," immediately gets them to listen. It's a factual statement. There are air-raid QBs currently on NFL rosters, and leading the Nation in passing opens all kinds of PR doors for your future endeavors (coaching, for starters).

QB school reputations absolutely matter in the recruiting circles. Hell yes they do. Defensive back reputations matter in the recruiting circles. Recruiting is selling, and any salesman worth their salt is going to leverage the fact that we've had #1 & #2 overall NFL draft pics and a slew of other NFL QBs spanning the last 5 decades. "Listen son, it's not a coincidence that WSU produces great QBs. Why are you considering that MWC program? Colorado, Oregon State, Arizona, ASU?"

Not trying to sound like I'm lecturing you here, but WSU is regarded to be a QB producing University. How many schools West of Texas crank out better QBs than us? There are a few, but not many.

Thats Leach's réputation not the school. He's gone, it's gone

 

[CougPatrol]

Thats Leach's réputation not the school. He's gone, it's gone

If it’s gone, it’s because our recruiting coaches suck. There are maybe 3-5 programs on the West coast who can boast a better QB alumni than WSU over the past 45 years.

 

[425cougfan]

If it’s gone, it’s because our recruiting coaches suck. There are maybe 3-5 programs on the West coast who can boast a better QB alumni than WSU over the past 45 years.

CP, I get your point and certainly think WSU can try to use the "QBU" label--I'd rather have that history than not--but really, put yourself in the shoes of a 17-year old top QB prospect in 2021 or his parents, especially today, where recruits are better-informed than ever.

Do you really care that WSU had Drew Bledsoe 30 years ago or Leaf more than 20 years ago, much less guys like Jack Thompson or Mark Rypien decades ago, and some guys like Gesser, Falk, Brink, Tuel, Halliday, etc., who were good college QBs but didn't make it in the NFL? Most kids today don't even know who any of those guys were, other than some of the more astute ones merely recognizing the names but not knowing much more, and the fact they played at the school a long time ago under different staffs running different schemes doesn't mean anything. Almost all schools have some pretty good QBs, and if anything, it would just say to me that WSU hasn't recruited a top QB who has moved the needle nationally at any time they've been alive, and even the guy who did a few years before they were even born was a bust in the NFL.

I know I've been ragging on WSU a lot lately and it's not my intent to do so for the sake of it ... just want to be realistic about this stuff. What's relevant to these kids today is something like Utah talking about how it gets players to the NFL on defense (same coach and doing so in a way that isn't just a function of talent coming in the door that's highly rated, so it makes sense) or, while it's more of a Jimmies and Joes thing than anything to do with UW, UW putting a lot of players in the NFL. The mere fact some guys who were legends for our school but not all that relevant nationally went to WSU is better than not even having had those guys, but it doesn't move the needle in a meaningful way.

 

[CougPatrol]

CP, I get your point and certainly think WSU can try to use the "QBU" label--I'd rather have that history than not--but really, put yourself in the shoes of a 17-year old top QB prospect in 2021 or his parents, especially today, where recruits are better-informed than ever.

Do you really care that WSU had Drew Bledsoe 30 years ago or Leaf more than 20 years ago, much less guys like Jack Thompson or Mark Rypien decades ago, and some guys like Gesser, Falk, Brink, Tuel, Halliday, etc., who were good college QBs but didn't make it in the NFL?

I do think it matters. A lot, actually. Recruiting is selling. Now, I can't go into living rooms and sell only those 20-30 legacy QBs to kids considering USC, UCLA, Oregon, UW, etc.; but I can absolutely sell our QB pipeline to kids considering just about any other school on the West coast. That's my point, I guess.

I know Penn State cranks out stud linebackers. I know Ohio State and Georgia churns out RBs and WRs. I know UW produces TEs, DL, and DBs consistently. Certain programs carry positional reputations. I'm not saying WSU is as well regarded as those programs, but we are known up and down the west coast as a school that produces QBs. It's talked about by the television broadcast crews, high school coaches know it, WSU markets the Hell out of it, and we generally don't go too many years without having one of the best QBs out West.

It's a recurring theme. Thompson, Rypien, Rosey, Bledsoe, Leaf, Gesser, Kegel, Brink , Halliday, Falk, Minshew, Gordon. Not all of these guys were elite, but we're talking about top-10 NFL draft picks, Super Bowl MVP, Hall of Fame, P12 champs, National passing leaders. That's a timeline spanning from the late 1970s through 2019. If I'm a WSU recruiter, that's a lot of sales ammo for me that I can deliver confidently to the parents and players. They're gonna consider a MWC program over WSU? A bottom tier P12 program over WSU? Play QB for Utah over WSU?

Sorry, but there's no reason why WSU shouldn't be in the mix for top-10 rated West coast QBs every year.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I do think it matters. A lot, actually. Recruiting is selling. Now, I can't go into living rooms and sell only those 20-30 legacy QBs to kids considering USC, UCLA, Oregon, UW, etc.; but I can absolutely sell our QB pipeline to kids considering just about any other school on the West coast. That's my point, I guess.

I know Penn State cranks out stud linebackers. I know Ohio State and Georgia churns out RBs and WRs. I know UW produces TEs, DL, and DBs consistently. Certain programs carry positional reputations. I'm not saying WSU is as well regarded as those programs, but we are known up and down the west coast as a school that produces QBs. It's talked about by the television broadcast crews, high school coaches know it, WSU markets the Hell out of it, and we generally don't go too many years without having one of the best QBs out West.

It's a recurring theme. Thompson, Rypien, Rosey, Bledsoe, Leaf, Gesser, Kegel, Brink , Halliday, Falk, Minshew, Gordon. Not all of these guys were elite, but we're talking about top-10 NFL draft picks, Super Bowl MVP, Hall of Fame, P12 champs, National passing leaders. That's a timeline spanning from the late 1970s through 2019. If I'm a WSU recruiter, that's a lot of sales ammo for me that I can deliver confidently to the parents and players. They're gonna consider a MWC program over WSU? A bottom tier P12 program over WSU? Play QB for Utah over WSU?

Sorry, but there's no reason why WSU shouldn't be in the mix for top-10 rated West coast QBs every year.

The reason is top ten West Coast qbs have options better than WSU. It isnt just the history at the position. Its the commitment of the school to football. Which isnt good enough to get the attention of top ten West Coast qbs.