The inadvertent whistle official
- Thread starter kougkurt
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If ASU wants to say that's why they lost the game, that's fine. Shows how mentally soft they are.
As the Cougs have well documented over the last 10 years , you only score 24 points you won't win many Pac 12 games. The game yesterday wasn't about 1 or even 2 plays. We dominated the second half and handed them their arse !! I loved sending that angry bully Graham back to Zona with a loss.
As the announcers pointed out on TV, there should probably be a sanity mechanism to rules which would allow refs to evaluate a call in some way within the context of what its impact is, if followed to the letter of the law.
We were the better team and I believe would have won anyway, but we should remember that these types of plays can work against us in the future too.
A game rarely comes down to one play, even though sometimes it feels better for fans to focus on our one "favorite" play to pick on.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...-12-ruling-washington-state-win-arizona-state
Wow. "The line judge will be suspended for one week, and the "entire officiating crew has been downgraded," according to the conference. It is the first suspension for a Pac-12 official this season."
Whoa whoa whoa... THIS is the crew that is going to get downgraded, not the crew from last week?
Oh, I see why... the crew last week made absolutely no calls that would have/ could have affected the outcome of the game.
They got caught having bet too much money. Last weeks crew bet just enough to fly under the radar.
I like this ASU fan's take on the call...
- patkush
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Losers blame the refs....
Anyone remember the last play of the Wiscy game a few years ago in Tempe and all the whining Badgers fans about how the refs blew it?
What goes around comes around.
The officials are human and make mistakes. They make bad calls every game on both sides.
However, the better teams with takent, depth and coaching seem to usually be able to survive and battle through a couple bad calls while the mediocre/bad teams can not.
Fans of losing, struggling teams always whine the most about officiating.
The whining and moaning doesn't change the fact that the team simply isn't very good.
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It is sad THIS is what gets refs suspended or downgraded. What about all the other clowns that blew calls in multiple P12 games this season and well, forever? Pretty lame sauce.
I wanted to provide a perspective as an official.
First, I was surprised he did give a half-ass tweet there. I thought he was certainly going to be stopped, and the official jumped the gun a bit with his whistle. As soon as he started, I think he realized he was a bit early and tried to let up. We are taught that we should never put the whistle near our mouth without the intent to loudly and definitively blow the whistle. Had he clearly blown the whistle, I don't think there'd be much argument from Leach and co about it. And this is why I think the Pac-12 is taking the stance it is that progress was stopped.
Second, I will say watching it that progress was not clearly stopped at the time he decided to blow the whistle was a bit too early. And he knew it too (which is why he was half-arsed with the tweet). I disagree with the Pac-12's view on this. And the calls for an IW was the right call. And the announcers had it right (which I think Periera confirmed): the choices are take the result of the play or replay the down.
What really shocks me is that there was an IW there. If there was going to be an IW, it was Berc's spectacular read-option in the 3rd. The entire stadium, radio crew, TV crew, and the entire WSU defense thought they stuffed the runner. If there was any time an official was going to screw up, it was there. And they didn't.
Additionally, I want to comment on what I've heard in the stands, hear in the bars, and hear from coaches every single Friday night: play until the whistle. Bob Rob commented on this on the radio, but the play ends when the play ends. A blown whistle always ends the play. But the whistle should never be the cause for the play to end. And just because there isn't a whistle doesn't mean one is allowed to go full tilt when the play is obviously over.
Finally, with regard to the Pac-12 officials. Granted, I haven't watched much of the SEC, B1G, ACC, etc. But the Pac-12 crews this year seem especially bad. I remember it wasn't but 15-20 years ago that the SEC (with their flags hang out of their back pockets) was the laughing stock of NCAA officiating. But they've cleaned up their act and aren't anymore. Now it is the Pac-12. And the calls I've seen over the years (the ASU/Wisc game, ASU/Oregon this year, WSU/Stanford this year, WSU/Oregon last year, USC/ND "Bush Push") have shown a steady decline in Pac-12 officiating. And I'm not sure how the Pac-12 should fix it. If the Pac-12 is like it was 15 years ago, it was a good ol' boy club, where you got there by knowing someone, not by any particular demonstrated ability. There was (still is?) a Pac-12 official out of Spokane that used to come to clinics and tell us how to get up to the DI level, but he left out the network connections to make it possible.
P.S. One last point. Everyone blasts the ACC guys for the Miami/Duke game. I suggest everyone take a look at the link below for a balanced, officials viewpoint on the issue.
https://forum.officiating.com/football/100280-acc-suspends-miami-duke-officials.html
First, I was surprised he did give a half-ass tweet there. I thought he was certainly going to be stopped, and the official jumped the gun a bit with his whistle. As soon as he started, I think he realized he was a bit early and tried to let up. We are taught that we should never put the whistle near our mouth without the intent to loudly and definitively blow the whistle. Had he clearly blown the whistle, I don't think there'd be much argument from Leach and co about it. And this is why I think the Pac-12 is taking the stance it is that progress was stopped.
Second, I will say watching it that progress was not clearly stopped at the time he decided to blow the whistle was a bit too early. And he knew it too (which is why he was half-arsed with the tweet). I disagree with the Pac-12's view on this. And the calls for an IW was the right call. And the announcers had it right (which I think Periera confirmed): the choices are take the result of the play or replay the down.
What really shocks me is that there was an IW there. If there was going to be an IW, it was Berc's spectacular read-option in the 3rd. The entire stadium, radio crew, TV crew, and the entire WSU defense thought they stuffed the runner. If there was any time an official was going to screw up, it was there. And they didn't.
Additionally, I want to comment on what I've heard in the stands, hear in the bars, and hear from coaches every single Friday night: play until the whistle. Bob Rob commented on this on the radio, but the play ends when the play ends. A blown whistle always ends the play. But the whistle should never be the cause for the play to end. And just because there isn't a whistle doesn't mean one is allowed to go full tilt when the play is obviously over.
Finally, with regard to the Pac-12 officials. Granted, I haven't watched much of the SEC, B1G, ACC, etc. But the Pac-12 crews this year seem especially bad. I remember it wasn't but 15-20 years ago that the SEC (with their flags hang out of their back pockets) was the laughing stock of NCAA officiating. But they've cleaned up their act and aren't anymore. Now it is the Pac-12. And the calls I've seen over the years (the ASU/Wisc game, ASU/Oregon this year, WSU/Stanford this year, WSU/Oregon last year, USC/ND "Bush Push") have shown a steady decline in Pac-12 officiating. And I'm not sure how the Pac-12 should fix it. If the Pac-12 is like it was 15 years ago, it was a good ol' boy club, where you got there by knowing someone, not by any particular demonstrated ability. There was (still is?) a Pac-12 official out of Spokane that used to come to clinics and tell us how to get up to the DI level, but he left out the network connections to make it possible.
P.S. One last point. Everyone blasts the ACC guys for the Miami/Duke game. I suggest everyone take a look at the link below for a balanced, officials viewpoint on the issue.
https://forum.officiating.com/football/100280-acc-suspends-miami-duke-officials.html
One bit of official's lore on the IW We call them "chocolate whistles." And the official with an IW has the pleasure of buying everyone drinks and a meal afterward. Of all the screw-ups an official can make, an IW is one of the worst. My first IW wan in an 8-man game where the QB had spectacular fake that had everyone fooled--except his coach and my crewmates. I run in with my whistle as he's 10 yards down the sideline with a clear shot to the EZ. My white hat came over, yanked off my whistle and told me "You won't need this the rest of the game--maybe not the rest of the season." Not only did I buy all the beer afterward, but it took a few seasons to live that one down.
Not to take the heat off the LJ in game that had his IW--and his was pretty damn bad--but we are all human and we make mistakes. He's paying for it. Not only with a suspension, but likely bought lots of food and drinks and will be living that whistle down for years.
Not to take the heat off the LJ in game that had his IW--and his was pretty damn bad--but we are all human and we make mistakes. He's paying for it. Not only with a suspension, but likely bought lots of food and drinks and will be living that whistle down for years.
Not sure, but it was on the same side of the field as the "Marks stepped out of bounds, so I'll mark it but I won't make a call even though I saw it, I'll use the replay booth as a crutch" - was it the same guy?
Graham was very complimentary in his post-game interview. He did not blame the game on the officiating. He mentioned it along with the 4th down stop as equally important. He also mentioned that his team was outplayed in the second half and dwelled on his second half defense.... he earned some respect from me after watching that interview.
I don't think he went out. I think the official thought he was going to go out, and when he didn't he tried to pull up on his whistle.
Not sure if there ever was an official ruling (can't remember), but the TV guys seemed to think that the ruling was that he was pushed out and therefore not illegal touching..
Good link, but for the life of me I cannot see this missed call. It boggles the mind that anyone could see that the guy wasn't on a knee and controlling the ball.
• Replay official Andrew Panucci should have ruled Miami back Mark Walton was down before releasing the ball on one of the laterals. If the proper call had been made, the game would have ended in a Duke victory.
Rule 2-4-1a says "The ball is in player possession when a player has the ball firmly in his grasp by holding or controlling it while contacting the ground inbounds". In this play the player in in the process of releasing the ball when the knee is down and I am not sure the player still has "firm grasp" of the ball at that time. Still angles show the knee was down while the ball was in the hand but I can see why they ruled it live on the field and upheld it on replay.
Graham pissed away a golden opportunity. Kick the fg and go up 17-0 and don't give WSU anything to that point to get excited about. Going for it, missing it, certainly gave us hope. Not sure why three points after you have 14 in the first 8 minutes of the game is frowned upon.
And I think the discussion over there agrees. It is quite plausible that the on-filed guy could miss it given all the activity going on. But the replay guy missing it?
The point, I think, is that the entire crew got tossed under the bus. On a play that strange with that much going on I'm not surprised somebody on the field would out of position or not looking where they should be looking. But there's no excuse for the replay guy.
