"Their first level guys are as good as ours..."

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I think that says a lot about where we are at as a program.

I think he meant it as a compliment to Eastern, but just let that sink in.

I think if you polled coaches and asked them "Should a P5 team ever lose to a FCS team, regardless of how great the FCS team is or how crappy the P5 team is", the resounding answer would be "HELL NO."

Replace "ever lose to" with "have lesser talent than" and you'll get the same answer.

Even if their QB/ WR combo is better than ours, our overall talent level should be higher, or at least high enough to negate that difference.

 

[Cougsocal]

Mike Leach is a hell of a coach. He can take yours and beat his, and take his and beat yours. Last year was proof. The 600 lbs gorilla for Mike is recruiting. Our receivers are as well coached and as sure handed as I've ever seen, but they aren't a physically gifted group, and they are the engine of our offense. Falk probably has the highest football IQ of any QB we have ever had, he is tough tough competitor, but he isn't physically gifted. He has a elite FBS mind, but average FCS tools. Our OL is big, huge in fact, they are "solid" pass blocking, but the have the athletic skills of Brain Paine, and they are being propped up by a system intended to hide weak physical skills.

On defense, we are in transition from tape measure to stopwatch players. Our tape measure guys failed for want of Pac-12 skills. Whether our stopwatch kids can have success will depend on identifying Luani types in numbers. Fast/tough but undersized kids are more plentiful, but they don't help you unless you can identify them and get them on campus. So far, and it is early, I don't see any Luani II, III, IVs out there.

 

[Cougatron]

I think that says a lot about where we are at as a program.

I think he meant it as a compliment to Eastern, but just let that sink in.

I think if you polled coaches and asked them "Should a P5 team ever lose to a FCS team, regardless of how great the FCS team is or how crappy the P5 team is", the resounding answer would be "HELL NO."

Replace "ever lose to" with "have lesser talent than" and you'll get the same answer.

Even if their QB/ WR combo is better than ours, our overall talent level should be higher, or at least high enough to negate that difference.

The whole "FCS should never beat FBS" is a myth. It really depends on the programs when assessing FBS vs FCS.

3 FCS teams beat Power 5 teams this weekend.

FCS is not at the same disparity as it was in the past.

Northern Iowa beat Iowa State.
Richmond beat Virginia
and Eastern beat us.

All 3 were interstate FCS victories over an instate power 5

All the kids who got looked over by the power 5 playing their hearts out with a chip on their shoulder in their rivalry game of the year. It's like a rivalry game, and in those games...anything can happen. 1st game of the year. Kinks still getting worked out.

FCS isn't what FCS USED to be where there were so few players around that teams could barely make a team. FCS now is taking all the kids who are incredibly talented without the grades, or the looked over kids and that's a dangerous combination in a rivalry setting. A polished established offensive team like eastern, or a defensive team like North Dakota State

5 years in a row. 5 years in a row North Dakota State beat FBS teams

2007 at Minnesota W, 27-21
2010 at Kansas W, 6-3
2011 at Minnesota W, 37-24
2012 at Colorado State W, 22-7
2013 at Kansas State W, 24-21
2014 at Iowa State W, 34-14

How can 1 team beat so many FBS teams? Because they are a defined established system and they can restock it and compete. Small school yes, but lack of talent no. Their ceiling is the competitive level of beating an FBS. Ours can be much higher, but an FCS team isn't a gimmie game anymore. Not for us, or any power 5. The gap has closed tremendously, and the dynasty FCS programs are a threat. They were a threat to Oregon, UW, OSU (who they beat), and obviously us.

You can't dismiss any well established FCS program anymore. Montana, North Dakota State, Eastern. they are all dangerous games.

 

[Glad Cougar]

There are some darn good FCS teams, no doubt. North Dakota State would be competitive and likely a bowl game contender if moved up to FBS, depending on which conference they are in. But all those games you listed in which the FCS team won have something in common (with the exception of Kansas State), they beat a struggling FBS team at that time. Iowa State and Kansas are simply poor programs most years, Minnesota has usually been under .500, Colorado State the year the Bison beat them went 4-8, and Virginia has had one winning season since 2007. I would like to think WSU is a very good program....good enough to beat FCS teams whenever they play them. But two years in a row now, they have found a way to lose. We need to take a step forward and win these season openers. There is never any guarantee we will bounce back and win 9 games again.

Glad Cougar

 

[SCglory]

Mike Leach is a hell of a coach. He can take yours and beat his, and take his and beat yours. Last year was proof. The 600 lbs gorilla for Mike is recruiting. Our receivers are as well coached and as sure handed as I've ever seen, but they aren't a physically gifted group, and they are the engine of our offense. Falk probably has the highest football IQ of any QB we have ever had, he is tough tough competitor, but he isn't physically gifted. He has a elite FBS mind, but average FCS tools. Our OL is big, huge in fact, they are "solid" pass blocking, but the have the athletic skills of Brain Paine, and they are being propped up by a system intended to hide weak physical skills.

On defense, we are in transition from tape measure to stopwatch players. Our tape measure guys failed for want of Pac-12 skills. Whether our stopwatch kids can have success will depend on identifying Luani types in numbers. Fast/tough but undersized kids are more plentiful, but they don't help you unless you can identify them and get them on campus. So far, and it is early, I don't see any Luani II, III, IVs out there.

I don't think your first paragraph makes all that much headway since cougs scored in the 40s, right? I suspect that the cause lies in your second P. If EWU can score 40 points, that seems to be the problem

 

[BiggsCoug]

BCS teams have 25 more scholarships to offer. WSU takes down $22 million in tv $ per year.

The discrepancy is bigger now between BCS and FCS then it has ever been.

You are completely, foolishly wrong to believe the gap is narrow. It's light years away.

If you lose to a FCS program with all these advantages and literally an embarrassment of riches you are a donkey. End of story.

 

[Cougatron]

There are some darn good FCS teams, no doubt. North Dakota State would be competitive and likely a bowl game contender if moved up to FBS, depending on which conference they are in. But all those games you listed in which the FCS team won have something in common (with the exception of Kansas State), they beat a struggling FBS team at that time. Iowa State and Kansas are simply poor programs most years, Minnesota has usually been under .500, Colorado State the year the Bison beat them went 4-8, and Virginia has had one winning season since 2007. I would like to think WSU is a very good program....good enough to beat FCS teams whenever they play them. But two years in a row now, they have found a way to lose. We need to take a step forward and win these season openers. There is never any guarantee we will bounce back and win 9 games again.

Glad Cougar

Yeah I don't disagree with you at all, but here's something interesting that started to happen. with the SEC. They started to schedule cupcake FCS teams LATE in the year? Why? Because those teams are very beat up by then with their smaller rosters and it gets around playing them early when they are fresh...because even Nick Saban knows that the 1st game of the year can be dangerous. Yes they opened against USC, but look at how lop sided that was. Is USC with all their 5 stars that much worse talent wise? No. But 1 team was ready the other was not. The 1st game of the year is a very very strange setting where bizarre things can happen. That's why most teams play "lesser" teams to get things fixed, but if you bring in 1 of the "lesser teams" that has it's shit together when you don't ... well you can get beat.

It's happened to Oregon State, it happened to us twice lately, it happened to Virginia Tech, it's happned to Rich Rod. It's happened to David Cutcliffe at Duke.. Last year we sort of grew stronger as the year went on. Now the starting point as far as wins/losses is the same, but I think there is a Night and Day difference between the Portland State loss and this loss.

I think we'll definitely get it together this year, but we have a lot to iron out on defense. Offense can correct its mistakes. you'll see us improve week to week and get better and better.

 

[brettcraycraft51]

The whole "FCS should never beat FBS" is a myth. It really depends on the programs when assessing FBS vs FCS.

3 FCS teams beat Power 5 teams this weekend.

FCS is not at the same disparity as it was in the past.

Northern Iowa beat Iowa State.
Richmond beat Virginia
and Eastern beat us.

All 3 were interstate FCS victories over an instate power 5

All the kids who got looked over by the power 5 playing their hearts out with a chip on their shoulder in their rivalry game of the year. It's like a rivalry game, and in those games...anything can happen. 1st game of the year. Kinks still getting worked out.

FCS isn't what FCS USED to be where there were so few players around that teams could barely make a team. FCS now is taking all the kids who are incredibly talented without the grades, or the looked over kids and that's a dangerous combination in a rivalry setting. A polished established offensive team like eastern, or a defensive team like North Dakota State

5 years in a row. 5 years in a row North Dakota State beat FBS teams

2007 at Minnesota W, 27-21
2010 at Kansas W, 6-3
2011 at Minnesota W, 37-24
2012 at Colorado State W, 22-7
2013 at Kansas State W, 24-21
2014 at Iowa State W, 34-14

How can 1 team beat so many FBS teams? Because they are a defined established system and they can restock it and compete. Small school yes, but lack of talent no. Their ceiling is the competitive level of beating an FBS. Ours can be much higher, but an FCS team isn't a gimmie game anymore. Not for us, or any power 5. The gap has closed tremendously, and the dynasty FCS programs are a threat. They were a threat to Oregon, UW, OSU (who they beat), and obviously us.

You can't dismiss any well established FCS program anymore. Montana, North Dakota State, Eastern. they are all dangerous games.

on the one hand, i totally agree w/ you that there are a handful of fcs programs that are good enough to make the jump to fbs and make a little hay. on the other hand, i don't look at the teams that are getting beat by fcs teams as any great comfort. another poster already made this point basically, but iowa state and virginia are not teams that i want to be associated with.

it's one game, so i'm trying hard not to hit the panic button, but goddamn last night was just ugly as shit. hard to ignore that "effort."

 

[BiggsCoug]

Yeah I don't disagree with you at all, but here's something interesting that started to happen. with the SEC. They started to schedule cupcake FCS teams LATE in the year? Why? Because those teams are very beat up by then with their smaller rosters and it gets around playing them early when they are fresh...because even Nick Saban knows that the 1st game of the year can be dangerous. Yes they opened against USC, but look at how lop sided that was. Is USC with all their 5 stars that much worse talent wise? No. But 1 team was ready the other was not. The 1st game of the year is a very very strange setting where bizarre things can happen. That's why most teams play "lesser" teams to get things fixed, but if you bring in 1 of the "lesser teams" that has it's shit together when you don't ... well you can get beat.

It's happened to Oregon State, it happened to us twice lately, it happened to Virginia Tech, it's happned to Rich Rod. It's happened to David Cutcliffe at Duke.. Last year we sort of grew stronger as the year went on. Now the starting point as far as wins/losses is the same, but I think there is a Night and Day difference between the Portland State loss and this loss.

I think we'll definitely get it together this year, but we have a lot to iron out on defense. Offense can correct its mistakes. you'll see us improve week to week and get better and better.

Socks in a dryer. They aren't teaching hitting, tackling or aggressiveness of any kind. How do you go from where they are now, to being fearsome in a week? You don't. Defense is toast until they put their big balls on.

 

[Cougatron]

BCS teams have 25 more scholarships to offer. WSU takes down $22 million in tv $ per year.

The discrepancy is bigger now between BCS and FCS then it has ever been.

You are completely, foolishly wrong to believe the gap is narrow. It's light years away.

If you lose to a FCS program with all these advantages and literally an embarrassment of riches you are a donkey. End of story.

I disagree with that 9 FBS teams lost to FCS last year.

This year 3 have already gone down, and probably 6 others will lose games as well.

Sept. 17th - North Dakota State plays Iowa. Iowa went 12-2 last year. I will not be surprised if North Dakota State beats them.
Sept. 10tth - Jacksonville State vs LSU - Jacksonville State's only loss last year was to Auburn...in overtime.

Citadel last year beat South Carolina... the list goes ON and ON. It's not the same football world anymore.

How many FCS players do you think are in the NFL Biggs? 20? 40? 50? 100? 200?
Try 250.

In fact there are so many FCS players CURRENTLY in the NFL that the entire NFC west's rosters could be filled by them and you would STILL have enough players to almost make another team. That's how much NFL talent is lurking around out there in FCS land. 15% of active players in the NFL are FCS. So depending on the teams coaches, scheme, and the fact the team might have an NFL caliber player (which Kupp clearly is) then you most certainly can find yourself competing against tough competition.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I disagree with that 9 FBS teams lost to FCS last year.

This year 3 have already gone down, and probably 6 others will lose games as well.

Sept. 17th - North Dakota State plays Iowa. Iowa went 12-2 last year. I will not be surprised if North Dakota State beats them.
Sept. 10tth - Jacksonville State vs LSU - Jacksonville State's only loss last year was to Auburn...in overtime.

Citadel last year beat South Carolina... the list goes ON and ON. It's not the same football world anymore.

How many FCS players do you think are in the NFL Biggs? 20? 40? 50? 100? 200?
Try 250.

In fact there are so many FCS players CURRENTLY in the NFL that the entire NFC west's rosters could be filled by them and you would STILL have enough players to almost make another team. That's how much NFL talent is lurking around out there in FCS land. 15% of active players in the NFL are FCS. So depending on the teams coaches, scheme, and the fact the team might have an NFL caliber player (which Kupp clearly is) then you most certainly can find yourself competing against tough competition.

85% of the nfl is BCS kids. That should tell you FCS isn't loaded for a bear hunt. 8 guys out of a 53 man roster is gonna make your point? Weak.

You're pointing at exceptions to make your point, not rules. Don't tell me a half dozen teams win and so that closes the gap. You're wrong. All day, every day, twice on message boards.

Actually, I think FCS teams are forced to do a better job of coaching kids. BCS has all the hardware it needs to pummel these teams by 10 touchdowns. I think WSU's prob isn't lack of talent, it's lack of coaching and desire. So EWU wins. Program gets shamed. Maybe they put their big balls on and do something about it?

 

[Cougatron]

85% of the nfl is BCS kids. That should tell you FCS isn't loaded for a bear hunt. 8 guys out of a 53 man roster is gonna make your point? Weak.

You're pointing at exceptions to make your point, not rules. Don't tell me a half dozen teams win and so that closes the gap. You're wrong. All day, every day, twice on message boards.

Actually, I think FCS teams are forced to do a better job of coaching kids. BCS has all the hardware it needs to pummel these teams by 10 touchdowns. I think WSU's prob isn't lack of talent, it's lack of coaching and desire. So EWU wins. Program gets shamed. Maybe they put their big balls on and do something about it?

If I'm wrong how come it happens every year to different teams. How does Jacksonville State take Auburn to overtime? How does North Dakota State beat Kansas State? How does Eastern beat Mike Riley and Oregon State. How does Apalachin State beat Rich Rod.

If you think ______ team is automatically a cupcake it just isn't. Money doesn't necessarily mean a victory. Neither do facilities. Coaching is part of it yes. Effort is part of it yes. But still it's 11 players vs 11 players. Using the same ball. On the same field. Players who don't make it academically for FBS does not mean they can't play ball. Jerry Rice was an FCS player.

Eastern's previous QB was good enough to "graduate" transfer and START immediately for Oregon. It's not like there aren't talented kids on the other side of the ball. They just don't have as many, and if you are disjointed and lose your starting safety like a week before the game that you had practiced all spring/fall camp with...you can be vulnerable.

They played hard and executed. We were disjointed, made mistakes, and on defense were disorientated missing assignments and tackles.

We still only lost by 3 points despite that and put up 42. It's not as bad as people think.

 

[CougPatrol]

I think our system is one that an FCS program would fear the least; particularly in a season opener. We're not a fierce defense, and we spread the ball all over field on offense. Whatever advantages we have aren't measurable at the tradional point of attack.

When we hired Leach, THIS type of thing was the rub against him. He springs upsets and loses some head scratchers. I expect us to bounce back and challenge for 7 wins this season. We scored 42 points and I don't think we played particularly well.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If I'm wrong how come it happens every year to different teams. How does Jacksonville State take Auburn to overtime? How does North Dakota State beat Kansas State? How does Eastern beat Mike Riley and Oregon State. How does Apalachin State beat Rich Rod.

If you think ______ team is automatically a cupcake it just isn't. Money doesn't necessarily mean a victory. Neither do facilities. Coaching is part of it yes. Effort is part of it yes. But still it's 11 players vs 11 players. Using the same ball. On the same field. Players who don't make it academically for FBS does not mean they can't play ball. Jerry Rice was an FCS player.

Eastern's previous QB was good enough to "graduate" transfer and START immediately for Oregon. It's not like there aren't talented kids on the other side of the ball. They just don't have as many, and if you are disjointed and lose your starting safety like a week before the game that you had practiced all spring/fall camp with...you can be vulnerable.

They played hard and executed. We were disjointed, made mistakes, and on defense were disorientated missing assignments and tackles.

We still only lost by 3 points despite that and put up 42. It's not as bad as people think.

It happens every year because those teams are coached poorly. All of the advantages they have are washed away by a better coach.

 

[Cougatron]

It happens every year because those teams are coached poorly. All of the advantages they have are washed away by a better coach.

David CutCliffe
Rich Rod
Mike Riley
Bill Snyder
Frank Beamer

Are all names I know that have lost to an FCS team.

Do you know all the name of the coaches that beat them? Probably not. Because if they were THAT good they would be household names right?

Of all the coaches that beat those guys only 1 is in the FBS and that's Craig Bohl...who happened to lose to FCS North Dakota last year. What happened? He was just a great coach there and all of a sudden with more money better faciliities at Wyoming his coaching just disappeared?

No Biggs no. Every saturday is different every situation is different. There are lots of factors that go into wins and losses. It's not just always coaching. coaches coach. Players play. Sometimes the coaches coach poorly. Sometimes the players play poorly. Usually when you lose it's both. But it isn't automatically X result then it must be Y. Just like we lost to Portland State but Beat Oregon and UCLA. So automatically UCLA and Oregon are worse than Portland State. No. The transitive property doesn't work, and the same way with a game and coaches.

What happened when Powell missed the kick. Do we blame the coaches for that kick. Or do we blame Powell? Or is it both? What about when Furney missed. Was that Russell? Or was that Furney? When a lineman false starts. Is that the lineman or the coach? Surely don't move before the snap has been said to them. So why on earth does it happen. Because Humans are fickle. They forget. They make mistakes. They get distracted.

 

[BiggsCoug]

David CutCliffe
Rich Rod
Mike Riley
Bill Snyder
Frank Beamer

Are all names I know that have lost to an FCS team.

Do you know all the name of the coaches that beat them? Probably not. Because if they were THAT good they would be household names right?

Of all the coaches that beat those guys only 1 is in the FBS and that's Craig Bohl...who happened to lose to FCS North Dakota last year. What happened? He was just a great coach there and all of a sudden with more money better faciliities at Wyoming his coaching just disappeared?

No Biggs no. Every saturday is different every situation is different. There are lots of factors that go into wins and losses. It's not just always coaching. coaches coach. Players play. Sometimes the coaches coach poorly. Sometimes the players play poorly. Usually when you lose it's both. But it isn't automatically X result then it must be Y. Just like we lost to Portland State but Beat Oregon and UCLA. So automatically UCLA and Oregon are worse than Portland State. No. The transitive property doesn't work, and the same way with a game and coaches.

What happened when Powell missed the kick. Do we blame the coaches for that kick. Or do we blame Powell? Or is it both? What about when Furney missed. Was that Russell? Or was that Furney? When a lineman false starts. Is that the lineman or the coach? Surely don't move before the snap has been said to them. So why on earth does it happen. Because Humans are fickle. They forget. They make mistakes. They get distracted.

Part of coaching is getting your kids mentally ready to play. Dominos at 2am? Not a recipe for success. Entitlement? Happens at lots of schools.Showing up lethargic. Happens at WSU seems like every game day.

These guys were out coached and its f*cking shameful. Every advantage they could be given and they still blew it. The distance between WSU and EWU has never been bigger. Leach screwed this up twice now. He should be tarred and feathered.

 

[Coug90]

I disagree with that 9 FBS teams lost to FCS last year.

This year 3 have already gone down, and probably 6 others will lose games as well.

Sept. 17th - North Dakota State plays Iowa. Iowa went 12-2 last year. I will not be surprised if North Dakota State beats them.
Sept. 10tth - Jacksonville State vs LSU - Jacksonville State's only loss last year was to Auburn...in overtime.

Citadel last year beat South Carolina... the list goes ON and ON. It's not the same football world anymore.

How many FCS players do you think are in the NFL Biggs? 20? 40? 50? 100? 200?
Try 250.

In fact there are so many FCS players CURRENTLY in the NFL that the entire NFC west's rosters could be filled by them and you would STILL have enough players to almost make another team. That's how much NFL talent is lurking around out there in FCS land. 15% of active players in the NFL are FCS. So depending on the teams coaches, scheme, and the fact the team might have an NFL caliber player (which Kupp clearly is) then you most certainly can find yourself competing against tough competition.

Sorry Biggs, tron is spot on. I'm not sure the reason but the gap has most definitely closed, the results prove it. The abundance of recruiting info? The advancements in players physical development? The number of new offensive schemes being utilized? Who knows but these have become dangerous games, and unless you are making a point to schedule lower level FCS teams these just aren't body bag games anymore...you have to fight to win them and you sure as hell cant overlook them.

At this point I'd say screw it lets play other power 5 teams. At least that could be sold to recruits (hey, you wanna play PAC 12 ball and also go play at some ther cool venues...we are playing SEC and BIG 12 teams on the road too!). Hell, we should have beat Notre Dame and Ohio State in their houses not that long ago. Should have won at Auburn and at Tennessee if not for getting screwed over by hometown refs.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Sorry Biggs, tron is spot on. I'm not sure the reason but the gap has most definitely closed, the results prove it. The abundance of recruiting info? The advancements in players physical development? The number of new offensive schemes being utilized? Who knows but these have become dangerous games, and unless you are making a point to schedule lower level FCS teams these just aren't body bag games anymore...you have to fight to win them and you sure as hell cant overlook them.

At this point I'd say screw it lets play other power 5 teams. At least that could be sold to recruits (hey, you wanna play PAC 12 ball and also go play at some ther cool venues...we are playing SEC and BIG 12 teams on the road too!). Hell, we should have beat Notre Dame and Ohio State in their houses not that long ago. Should have won at Auburn and at Tennessee if not for getting screwed over by hometown refs.

So what you're telling me is that the $22,000,000 per year in tv money is worthless? The 85 to 60 full scholarship advantage is worthless? The ability to pay your entire coaching staff well into the 6 figures is worthless? The budget for recruiting, the $60,000,000 football ops building, the stadium remodel are all worthless? They offer zero advantage over EWU and in fact WSU might as well not even have them cause clearly EWU doesn't have them and they won.

In the history of WSU and EWU there has never been a further gap between the programs. In fact, it grows wider every year WSU cashes a check for $22,000,000 and EWU has a car wash to raise money.

The fact the EWU won is a reflection of their staff out coaching, out working and just plain out smarting WSU. And that goes for every BCS school that loses to a FCS team. F*cking shameful!

There's a rumor that Dr. Floyd asked for a podium to be ready at the WSU vs. Montana State game. Ya know why? So he could fire Coach Turd if WSU lost. What do you think Dr. Floyd would say about losing to PSU and EWU in back to back years? Is this why WSU plays football? To lose to f*cking Portland State and EWU? Hell no!

The results prove that WSU is entitled. They prove no one is grinding it out. They prove there is no grit or toughness in the players and clearly not the coaches if they're responsible for teaching this toughness and grit.

This loss is the equivalent of CougEd beating Shaquille O'Neal in a one on one game.... Not just once but twice! And Shaq being 7'1" with a staggering height advantage, never grabbed a rebound or blocked a shot.

 

[ElComanche]

Leach made the statement that"the best two players of the field were not wearing Crimson and grey" Well is it safe to say that the two best coaches on the field were not either?? It is time for leach to accept responsibility. He got trumped as his coaching was as bad as his political savvy. I like him as a coach but he loses to teams he has no business losing too. Time for the coaches to earn their pay.

 

[Cougatron]

So what you're telling me is that the $22,000,000 per year in tv money is worthless? The 85 to 60 full scholarship advantage is worthless? The ability to pay your entire coaching staff well into the 6 figures is worthless? The budget for recruiting, the $60,000,000 football ops building, the stadium remodel are all worthless? They offer zero advantage over EWU and in fact WSU might as well not even have them cause clearly EWU doesn't have them and they won.

In the history of WSU and EWU there has never been a further gap between the programs. In fact, it grows wider every year WSU cashes a check for $22,000,000 and EWU has a car wash to raise money.

The fact the EWU won is a reflection of their staff out coaching, out working and just plain out smarting WSU. And that goes for every BCS school that loses to a FCS team. F*cking shameful!

There's a rumor that Dr. Floyd asked for a podium to be ready at the WSU vs. Montana State game. Ya know why? So he could fire Coach Turd if WSU lost. What do you think Dr. Floyd would say about losing to PSU and EWU in back to back years? Is this why WSU plays football? To lose to f*cking Portland State and EWU? Hell no!

The results prove that WSU is entitled. They prove no one is grinding it out. They prove there is no grit or toughness in the players and clearly not the coaches if they're responsible for teaching this toughness and grit.

This loss is the equivalent of CougEd beating Shaquille O'Neal in a one on one game.... Not just once but twice! And Shaq being 7'1" with a staggering height advantage, never grabbed a rebound or blocked a shot.

Money doesn't guarantee results. It just means you have more money to spend on equipment, stadium, jerseys, salaries etc. It by no means is a guarantee for automatic wins. If it meant a guarantee then we should never beat USC, Oregon, UCLA etc.

Just like in those games we worked and built up over the years to be able to compete. And guess what. The FCS can do it to. To say we can do that at a disadvantage and achieve victory but FCS teams can't makes no sense.

FSC teams have much less financial resources than Power 5 teams, but Power 5 teams don't all have equal resources in a similar fashion.

To give you an idea about that. Eastern Washington spends 4 million on Football,
We spend 16 million on football That's a difference of 12 Million dollars.

USC spends 30 million on football. That's a difference of 14 Million dollars
UW spends 29.1 million on football again That's a difference of 13 Million dollars

So given those expenditures we should absolute NEVER beat those teams and if we do beat them it's shameful.

The difference between Eastern and WSU in spending is in fact smaller than the difference between WSU and UW/USC.

The truth is that in the 1st game of the year if they are firing on all cylinders and we weren't. Will we in the next few games. Probably.

 

[BiggsCoug]

How many times do you think WSU has beaten SC?

 

[Glad Cougar]

WSU losing to a FCS school two years in a row is what bothers me the most despite both PSU and EWU being decent programs at their level. Knowing what happened last year against the Vikings, I would hope the coaches and the players would have been sufficiently motivated to play harder, smarter, and with more urgency. I really didn't see it on either side of the ball. I've been following Cougar football for more than 50 years and our program's history clearly teaches us that WSU should never allow itself to be outhustled and outworked by the other team. I don't care if it's UO, UW, USC, Stanford, EWU or even Idaho. We should never be in a position to think we can get outhustled and still win.

I can't defend the players or the coaches for what happened the other day. Really, there are no excuses.

Glad Cougar

 

[Coug90]

Biggs it's embarrassing and disheartening as a Coug with the high expectations heading into this year, I'm just saying it's not unprecedented any more. For whatever reason this is happening more often around the country, despite financial disparities. These programs are finding under the radar talent, coaches are implementing schemes that are giving them a better chance to beat Goliath. It's hard to pinpoint what it is but just because the financial resource gap is bigger doesn't mean the results on the field are too...they clearly aren't.

I agree that Leach and Grinch were out coached, and that's a problem. I agree that despite what happened last year this team did not come out with their hair on fire like I believe they would have if they opened with Stanford or Oregon...that's a problem....but they are also 20 year old kids.

I would say my most frustrating issue with what happened is knowing that starters on our team were out drinking and getting into fights 10 days before the game. With all that's potentially on the line this season, That shows an incredible lack of discipline which was apparent in their performance Saturday in really every phase of the game. I don't personally know any players on the team but my guess is this team has a serious lack of on and off field leadership. When things go sideways you need that guy to rally everyone- I'd assume last year Allison was one of those guys? Who's gonna step up and fill those leadership voids. I see it from Marks but that's about it, and that's obviously not enough right now.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs it's embarrassing and disheartening as a Coug with the high expectations heading into this year, I'm just saying it's not unprecedented any more. For whatever reason this is happening more often around the country, despite financial disparities. These programs are finding under the radar talent, coaches are implementing schemes that are giving them a better chance to beat Goliath. It's hard to pinpoint what it is but just because the financial resource gap is bigger doesn't mean the results on the field are too...they clearly aren't.

I agree that Leach and Grinch were out coached, and that's a problem. I agree that despite what happened last year this team did not come out with their hair on fire like I believe they would have if they opened with Stanford or Oregon...that's a problem....but they are also 20 year old kids.

I would say my most frustrating issue with what happened is knowing that starters on our team were out drinking and getting into fights 10 days before the game. With all that's potentially on the line this season, That shows an incredible lack of discipline which was apparent in their performance Saturday in really every phase of the game. I don't personally know any players on the team but my guess is this team has a serious lack of on and off field leadership. When things go sideways you need that guy to rally everyone- I'd assume last year Allison was one of those guys? Who's gonna step up and fill those leadership voids. I see it from Marks but that's about it, and that's obviously not enough right now.

They are pissing away their advantage by hiring poor coaches and playing badly.

 

[ElComanche]

The defense lacked Luani but there must be better quicker linebackers than Puellar? Some guys are masters of carrying coaches s clipboards ,saying the right things and use these advantages to get major playing time. The program and the coaches asses are on the line. They better do a better job of coaching and quit saying dumb ass things like the two best players on the field were not wearing crimson and grey. The cougs were out coached and out played time to owe and fess up.

 

[Cougatron]

How many times do you think WSU has beaten SC?

9 wins 4 ties 58 losses is the official history matchup.

so 18.3% of the time a tie or better for us.
12.6% of the time an actual win.

I think we've only played Eastern twice in our entire history Leach's 1st year and this year. It's 1-1. If anyone knows of any historical games between Eastern and us let me know.

 

[BiggsCoug]

9 wins 4 ties 58 losses is the official history matchup.

so 18.3% of the time a tie or better for us.
12.6% of the time an actual win.

I think we've only played Eastern twice in our entire history Leach's 1st year and this year. It's 1-1. If anyone knows of any historical games between Eastern and us let me know.

9 wins in 71 games. Think SC fans are mad when they lose to a school that is so vastly underfunded compared to theirs? Poor coaching ruins the Grand Canyon between schools.

Leach should be tarred and feathered.

 

[Cougatron]

9 wins in 71 games. Think SC fans are mad when they lose to a school that is so vastly underfunded compared to theirs? Poor coaching ruins the Grand Canyon between schools.

Leach should be tarred and feathered.

When he beat USC in the coliseum? Right that was Kiffen...who USC got rid of to get Sark the drunk only to have that disaster lead them to Helton who marched them into Alabama to face Kiffin who absolutely destroyed them in embarrassing fashion early on.

Or when Stanford lost to Northwestern last year. Man they should have tarred and feathered Shaw!

Stop being an impulsive clown. Sometimes you have bad games sometimes things don't click. coaches should get slack for isolated performances. Especially early in the season. It's knee jerk sky is falling fans and hasty admin that ruin programs progress because they can't handle the fact that sometimes good teams lose to lesser teams occasionally early in the season.

 

[BiggsCoug]

When he beat USC in the coliseum? Right that was Kiffen...who USC got rid of to get Sark the drunk only to have that disaster lead them to Helton who marched them into Alabama to face Kiffin who absolutely destroyed them in embarrassing fashion early on.

Or when Stanford lost to Northwestern last year. Man they should have tarred and feathered Shaw!

Stop being an impulsive clown. Sometimes you have bad games sometimes things don't click. coaches should get slack for isolated performances. Especially early in the season. It's knee jerk sky is falling fans and hasty admin that ruin programs progress because they can't handle the fact that sometimes good teams lose to lesser teams occasionally early in the season.

Hey dummy, northwestern isn't a 1AA program with 25 fewer scholarship players than Stanford.

You're dim.

 

[Cougatron]

Hey dummy, northwestern isn't a 1AA program with 25 fewer scholarship players than Stanford.

You're dim.

Northwestern hasn't had anywhere close to the success as Stanford recently. They weren't in the top 20% of recruiting for the last 8 years.

How can Stanford lose to them it's an automatic win! More resources automatically means more wins game 1!

 

[BiggsCoug]

Northwestern hasn't had anywhere close to the success as Stanford recently. They weren't in the top 20% of recruiting for the last 8 years.

How can Stanford lose to them it's an automatic win! More resources automatically means more wins game 1!

Big Ten tv payout is supposed to be around $25,000,000 per school, per year. Your chosen match up proves you're not very bright. It doesn't prove your point. Nothing will.

 

[Cougatron]

Big Ten tv payout is supposed to be around $25,000,000 per school, per year. Your chosen match up proves you're not very bright. It doesn't prove your point. Nothing will.

Well if they make so much money we should never have beaten Rutgers. If whoever has the most money ALWAYS wins. That's YOUR logic. Not mine

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well if they make so much money we should never have beaten Rutgers. If whoever has the most money ALWAYS wins. That's YOUR logic. Not mine

You're a dope that twists posters words to serve your purpose. I'd explain it to you but you're dim.

 

[brettcraycraft51]

Northwestern hasn't had anywhere close to the success as Stanford recently. They weren't in the top 20% of recruiting for the last 8 years.

How can Stanford lose to them it's an automatic win! More resources automatically means more wins game 1!

you're just making a fool out of yourself at this point.

 

[wazzucougs96]

USC has on multiple occasions fired the coach they had after losing to WSU. Pete Carroll is the only modern day exception.

 

[Fab5Coug]

The whole "FCS should never beat FBS" is a myth. It really depends on the programs when assessing FBS vs FCS.

3 FCS teams beat Power 5 teams this weekend.

FCS is not at the same disparity as it was in the past.

Northern Iowa beat Iowa State.
Richmond beat Virginia
and Eastern beat us.

All 3 were interstate FCS victories over an instate power 5

All the kids who got looked over by the power 5 playing their hearts out with a chip on their shoulder in their rivalry game of the year. It's like a rivalry game, and in those games...anything can happen. 1st game of the year. Kinks still getting worked out.

FCS isn't what FCS USED to be where there were so few players around that teams could barely make a team. FCS now is taking all the kids who are incredibly talented without the grades, or the looked over kids and that's a dangerous combination in a rivalry setting. A polished established offensive team like eastern, or a defensive team like North Dakota State

5 years in a row. 5 years in a row North Dakota State beat FBS teams

2007 at Minnesota W, 27-21
2010 at Kansas W, 6-3
2011 at Minnesota W, 37-24
2012 at Colorado State W, 22-7
2013 at Kansas State W, 24-21
2014 at Iowa State W, 34-14

How can 1 team beat so many FBS teams? Because they are a defined established system and they can restock it and compete. Small school yes, but lack of talent no. Their ceiling is the competitive level of beating an FBS. Ours can be much higher, but an FCS team isn't a gimmie game anymore. Not for us, or any power 5. The gap has closed tremendously, and the dynasty FCS programs are a threat. They were a threat to Oregon, UW, OSU (who they beat), and obviously us.

You can't dismiss any well established FCS program anymore. Montana, North Dakota State, Eastern. they are all dangerous games.

Great post. Look at EWU's results against our conference. Beat us, beat OSU, barely lost to UW (twice), barely lost to us in '12, and gave Oregon a game last year.

Personally, I'd be fine not seeing them on the schedule anymore.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Part of coaching is getting your kids mentally ready to play. Dominos at 2am? Not a recipe for success. Entitlement? Happens at lots of schools.Showing up lethargic. Happens at WSU seems like every game day.

These guys were out coached and its f*cking shameful. Every advantage they could be given and they still blew it. The distance between WSU and EWU has never been bigger. Leach screwed this up twice now. He should be tarred and feathered.

Except for 9 game days last year, I guess.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Leach made the statement that"the best two players of the field were not wearing Crimson and grey" Well is it safe to say that the two best coaches on the field were not either?? It is time for leach to accept responsibility. He got trumped as his coaching was as bad as his political savvy. I like him as a coach but he loses to teams he has no business losing too. Time for the coaches to earn their pay.

And he beats teams he has no business beating. He has no advantage over Oregon, UCLA or USC.

 

[Fab5Coug]

9 wins in 71 games. Think SC fans are mad when they lose to a school that is so vastly underfunded compared to theirs? Poor coaching ruins the Grand Canyon between schools.

Leach should be tarred and feathered.

So, tar and feather him after an FCS loss. What do you do when he beats SC, Oregon or UCLA? Build a statue in front of the stadium?

Is he a good coach or not? 9-4 says he is. 12 bowls in 14 years says he is.

 

[CougEd]

And he beats teams he has no business beating. He has no advantage over Oregon, UCLA or USC.

So, tar and feather him after an FCS loss. What do you do when he beats SC, Oregon or UCLA? Build a statue in front of the stadium?

Is he a good coach or not? 9-4 says he is. 12 bowls in 14 years says he is.

There is not a debate on that one. The question should be framed a bit differently. Is he a good coach and fit here?

In my opinion- yes. Here is the downside to Leach, that he does lose to FCS teams at home. How does the program build momentum? How do they reward a home opening crowd against PSU and Eastern? Not only that how do you get your arms around giving up 600 plus yards to eastern and their QB is starting for the first time. Therein lies the problem.