This statement sums up the West Coast fan...

[Coug95man2]

vs the midwest.

Throughout the years, it inevitably comes up that the West Coast fans suck. Rose Bowl never fills for the home team, this stadium or that stadium is renovating and taking seats out, etc. etc. If you've ever been in the midwest (or South) during college football season, it's pretty crazy stuff. Nothing is seen like it West of the Rockies. But it's always hard to describe. The "football is a religion" statement has become so cliche. Grippi's article Sunday gives a pretty good window into West Coast fandom.

You watching the Hawks today? I know, a stupid question. The weather is too nice for that.

When the Mid-west is saying, "The weather is too nice to NOT go to a game!", we wait until the weather is crappy, then complain about the weather… lol. It was a simple statement, a joke, but really points to the mentality difference, IMHO. Nothing else to be seen here, but Grippi's joke really sprung out of the page at me, as to the mental difference between regions.

 

[MRICoug]

vs the midwest.

Throughout the years, it inevitably comes up that the West Coast fans suck. Rose Bowl never fills for the home team, this stadium or that stadium is renovating and taking seats out, etc. etc. If you've ever been in the midwest (or South) during college football season, it's pretty crazy stuff. Nothing is seen like it West of the Rockies. But it's always hard to describe. The "football is a religion" statement has become so cliche. Grippi's article Sunday gives a pretty good window into West Coast fandom.

You watching the Hawks today? I know, a stupid question. The weather is too nice for that.

When the Mid-west is saying, "The weather is too nice to NOT go to a game!", we wait until the weather is crappy, then complain about the weather… lol. It was a simple statement, a joke, but really points to the mentality difference, IMHO. Nothing else to be seen here, but Grippi's joke really sprung out of the page at me, as to the mental difference between regions.

I have attended games in all three regions, and the south is by far the king as far as game day ruling over all else. We have fans that cry and whine over a 5 hour drive, and I have known several season ticket holders in the south who travel much further, and never miss games. Now they don't have to worry about weather in the pass, but the simple fact is that west coast fans are passive. They enjoy games moderately, but many do not know the game well enough to really critique it the way they try to. They rant and rave and cuss out our player ( looking at us Coug fans here) and generally have little concept above "they need to do something different because I can't see what they are trying to do". Sad really. When Martin is full, and the team is winning all is well. That just does not happen very often.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Football is "religion" down in the south. It's THE event every Saturday. On the West Coast, there are plenty of other activities: beaches in California, hiking, boating, etc. in the Northwest that people like to take advantage of.

Football isn't THE priority in on the West Coast, specifically the PNW. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Football is "religion" down in the south. It's THE event every Saturday. On the West Coast, there are plenty of other activities: beaches in California, hiking, boating, etc. in the Northwest that people like to take advantage of.

Football isn't THE priority in on the West Coast, specifically the PNW. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

You might find that other parts of the country have hiking too. This is a pic from the official State of Alabama Travel site.

In general, I agree with the idea that people on the west coast have taken the attitude that football is not "THE" priority in the fall and over time that leads to fans that aren't as involved as those in the south and midwest. I'd agree with those that say that the south is where they take football the most serious. People in the area where I live tend to be really excited when their teams are good and not all that worried when they aren't. Sounds familiar?

 

[kayak15]

Yes, sounds familiar. There is the old joke: "There are two major religions in the Bible Belt. One is football season. The other is Spring practice." Some truth in that.

 

[Cougatron]

The major difference is attitude.

In the west football is seen as entertainment. Like a movie, or concert.

In the south it's not entertainment. It's the culture. Small towns revolve around high school football games. Football is a part of who they are. The game isn't just a game. It's the community. A visiting team is coming to their stadium...they are invaders/opportunity to show them what the community is about.

In the west people go to the game to be entertained. They'll go if they are good, but well if there are other things to do who cares. If the team isn't perceived as good...let me know when they are good I'll show up. No pride in showing visitors what they are about. No interest in forming an identity.

In the south/midwest people go to the game because it's part of the connection to the community. They'll go no matter what because not going is like abandoning their identity. There father was an Alabama fan. Their mother was an Alabama fan, and they are an Alabama fan and their kids will be Alabama fans. They know all the cheers. Every fight song. Every player, and every tradition. They plan their fall around the game, and they make it a point to never...ever miss a game.



To someone outside it looks crazy, but to hem it's everyday life. They love the team, and the school, and the community and to not support it...that would sound crazy to them.

If you want to see a teams in the Northwest that do something similar look at Boise...look at BYU... while BYU is religious affiliation...BYU is their identity..just like Notre Dame is for Catholics. It's who they are.

For Boise the Blue Turf and that hideous orange and blue is who they are. That community cares...that community wants an identity and has cultivated it. Oregon bought theirs with checks from Phil Knight... but look at what they did. The O logo. The stadium. the fancy uniforms. They created a culture with marketing.

WSU culture is... we'll leave at half time...and we have our flag on game day. The flag with ol' Crimson is great, but what about at the actual game...what about the culture before gameday. Where is that? Not really there. Maybe it's the distance, but like flat said people in small towns in the south make the journey and would never ever think otherwise not to.

The game for people up here is just some activity...the game for others is a way of life and a part of who they are.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Unfortunately, Cougs take more pride in drinking all the alcohol in the stadium at UNLV or a bar than they do supporting their team. Understandable at times of course. Sometimes, I feel like shotgunning a twelve pack so I can't remember the second half.

 

[Cougatron]

Unfortunately, Cougs take more pride in drinking all the alcohol in the stadium at UNLV or a bar than they do supporting their team. Understandable at times of course. Sometimes, I feel like shotgunning a twelve pack so I can't remember the second half.

I really think that's a product of the alumni base scattered across the country. Nobody stays in Pullman after graduation. We all have left the area. I travel to games occasionally but it has to fit within my everyday schedule. That's why we have so many great meetups on away games like the one chip posted at Rutgers.

No matter where they travel there are cougs somewhere around. It's also part of the reason why we can have Ol' Crimson all over the country because there is a coug somewhere nearby.

But for the games in Pullman it sucks because of how remote it is. I did a population radius halfway to boise to see what the population density is.

Here's how I did it. The distance to Boise (The nearest school with a national image) is 220 miles.

Now we want people closer to Pullman than to Boise to claim as ours. so we'll take a radius of 100 miles equidistant from Pullman and find out how many people are out there. I couldn't get it to register with 100 so here's at 150 miles.

1 million people live closer to Pullman than to Boise in a radius from Pullman out... there are a lot of people in the Palouse but they don't have WSU as an identity. I think that's the biggest error we've had in cultivating a fan base. If WSU was to start targeting all the small towns in the region and branding themselves as THE team of the Palouse.

Now obviously some of these areas are very remote, but WSU could capture them as fans. This whole area should be considered WSU territory. Yes I know Idaho is next door, but this whole area should be considered fair game for us to cultivate a fan base.

There are 40k seats at Martin... and this area has 1 Million. we can do it, but we have to target the people of the Palouse and make them feel like we are their team. We are their community, and they are a part of ours. BBQ, coug viewing parties sponsored by the athletic department. Fan outreach projects in every single small town.

A little coug onesie and beanie for every baby born in the area. Every police department, every fire department. Every single person in that area should be brought over to the house of Butch. They don't like football...okay well we have a basketball team...or volleyball..or baseball.. whatever people like we have a sport. If that whole area is bleeding crimson forget it we'll never have to worry about filling martin, students or not.

 

[kayak15]

Interesting map, tron. Looking at it I noticed that most of the space occurs in Idaho or Oregon. Somewhat difficult to get someone living in one state to form an allegiance with a school in the adjoining state. Pullman is about as isolated as one can get for Washingtonians. With no major freeway in the vicinity to get there. I don't want to start another thread whining about WSU's marketing but agree with you that the farmers and farming communities are a natural considering that WSU is the agricultural school for the area. Still not talking about a lot of people. Spokane and the tri-cities (just outside your map) are our best potential source of attendees. Then as many as possible from the west side where most alumni live and the smaller cities/towns in eastern Wa. Just don't expect a lot of interest in the Oregon or Idaho section of your map unless they are already Cougs. You are on point about increased and better salesmanship on our part. The major part of that is winning. Still, an interesting map if a bit sad from this Coug's view.

 

[Cougatron]

Interesting map, tron. Looking at it I noticed that most of the space occurs in Idaho or Oregon. Somewhat difficult to get someone living in one state to form an allegiance with a school in the adjoining state. Pullman is about as isolated as one can get for Washingtonians. With no major freeway in the vicinity to get there. I don't want to start another thread whining about WSU's marketing but agree with you that the farmers and farming communities are a natural considering that WSU is the agricultural school for the area. Still not talking about a lot of people. Spokane and the tri-cities (just outside your map) are our best potential source of attendees. Then as many as possible from the west side where most alumni live and the smaller cities/towns in eastern Wa. Just don't expect a lot of interest in the Oregon or Idaho section of your map unless they are already Cougs. You are on point about increased and better salesmanship on our part. The major part of that is winning. Still, an interesting map if a bit sad from this Coug's view.

Yeah I know it goes into Oregon/Idaho but they are closer to us than anywhere else, and marketing ourselves as THE team of the Palouse I think gets a lot of people to feel connected. I think that's the biggest part of it is for people to feel like they are a part of something, and reaching out to them and bringing them in I think is possible. It's just about how we relate to them, and we have more in common with them than anybody else.

 

[chinookpirate]

marketing ourselves as 'the' team of the palouse???... as in what, stealing the hearts and minds of the Idaho fans?

let's just worry about winning first.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Football is "religion" down in the south. It's THE event every Saturday. On the West Coast, there are plenty of other activities: beaches in California, hiking, boating, etc. in the Northwest that people like to take advantage of.

Football isn't THE priority in on the West Coast, specifically the PNW. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

There are actually a lot of other activities like going to the beach, hiking, boating, etc in the South too. I don't think that is the issue.

 

[Coug95man2]

There are actually a lot of other activities like going to the beach, hiking, boating, etc in the South too. I don't think that is the issue.

Completely agree. The South has so much to offer. Don't let the snooty West Coast attitude cloud the "redneck south" skewed viewpoint. The South is beautiful and has some great, great things to do.

So in that light, I think this is a great opportunity to watch this video... again… Yes, it's in Waco. It shows there is something to do in the South, right?!

 

[CougSinceBirth]

^ Would definitely attend and partake

 

[95coug]

I really think that's a product of the alumni base scattered across the country. Nobody stays in Pullman after graduation. We all have left the area. I travel to games occasionally but it has to fit within my everyday schedule. That's why we have so many great meetups on away games like the one chip posted at Rutgers.

No matter where they travel there are cougs somewhere around. It's also part of the reason why we can have Ol' Crimson all over the country because there is a coug somewhere nearby.

But for the games in Pullman it sucks because of how remote it is. I did a population radius halfway to boise to see what the population density is.

Here's how I did it. The distance to Boise (The nearest school with a national image) is 220 miles.

Now we want people closer to Pullman than to Boise to claim as ours. so we'll take a radius of 100 miles equidistant from Pullman and find out how many people are out there. I couldn't get it to register with 100 so here's at 150 miles.

1 million people live closer to Pullman than to Boise in a radius from Pullman out... there are a lot of people in the Palouse but they don't have WSU as an identity. I think that's the biggest error we've had in cultivating a fan base. If WSU was to start targeting all the small towns in the region and branding themselves as THE team of the Palouse.

Now obviously some of these areas are very remote, but WSU could capture them as fans. This whole area should be considered WSU territory. Yes I know Idaho is next door, but this whole area should be considered fair game for us to cultivate a fan base.

There are 40k seats at Martin... and this area has 1 Million. we can do it, but we have to target the people of the Palouse and make them feel like we are their team. We are their community, and they are a part of ours. BBQ, coug viewing parties sponsored by the athletic department. Fan outreach projects in every single small town.

A little coug onesie and beanie for every baby born in the area. Every police department, every fire department. Every single person in that area should be brought over to the house of Butch. They don't like football...okay well we have a basketball team...or volleyball..or baseball.. whatever people like we have a sport. If that whole area is bleeding crimson forget it we'll never have to worry about filling martin, students or not.

Your map shows a 150 kilometer radius, or 95 miles (as shown on the "input" section). Correcting to 150 miles gives a population of 1,569,503.

Doesn't change the validity of your point though...and repeats once again the need for WSU marketing to do a better job in their own backyard. Spokane and Tri-Cities are the biggest population centers in eastern WA. Both are an easy drive from the stadium (~2.5 hours for Tri-Cities, ~1.5 for Spokane). Both have WSU campuses in them. They should be absolutely saturated with WSU marketing and advertising.

 

[Coug95man2]

Your map shows a 150 kilometer radius, or 95 miles (as shown on the "input" section). Correcting to 150 miles gives a population of 1,569,503.

Doesn't change the validity of your point though...and repeats once again the need for WSU marketing to do a better job in their own backyard. Spokane and Tri-Cities are the biggest population centers in eastern WA. Both are an easy drive from the stadium (~2.5 hours for Tri-Cities, ~1.5 for Spokane). Both have WSU campuses in them. They should be absolutely saturated with WSU marketing and advertising.

I agree with you guys and your sentiment. But when our athletic department doesn't even have enough money to cover schollies? I don't know how much the marketing budget is going to be able to "saturate" anything. Just a dose of reality in the concept that the athletic Dept. should just be able to do something…

But that does bring up something that I've already posted but dovetails nicely… Are You In? This debate is exactly what Moos has talked about. Like the delivery, don't like the delivery. Whatever. But we complain and moan about this, that and the other… But it all takes money. And we all know we are the smallest donation school. We have the smallest budget and oddly, there is a drive going on right now!!! Huh!!! SO I'll reiterate. If you can find it in your budget, please consider. WSU athletics DOES need every penny. $50 is all it takes.

https://www.cougarsareyouin.com

 

[95coug]

I agree with you guys and your sentiment. But when our athletic department doesn't even have enough money to cover schollies? I don't know how much the marketing budget is going to be able to "saturate" anything. Just a dose of reality in the concept that the athletic Dept. should just be able to do something…

But that does bring up something that I've already posted but dovetails nicely… Are You In? This debate is exactly what Moos has talked about. Like the delivery, don't like the delivery. Whatever. But we complain and moan about this, that and the other… But it all takes money. And we all know we are the smallest donation school. We have the smallest budget and oddly, there is a drive going on right now!!! Huh!!! SO I'll reiterate. If you can find it in your budget, please consider. WSU athletics DOES need every penny. $50 is all it takes.

https://www.cougarsareyouin.com

True. And, I'm not a fan of the delivery or of the name. I know they tried for something simple, but it needs to be at least a little more distinctive. Something that'll make it past the spam filter- the computer's or my own. Seriously, when I see e-mail from Drew Bledsoe or Keith Jackson, my instinct is that it's either spam or a phishing attempt, and I'm likely to delete it. I mean, come on..."are you in?" could be porn spam.

My other comment is that this is supposedly a drive for new donors (to reach the 7,000 plateau), so it really shouldn't be aimed at me and others who already donate. Sure, I know they're angling for us to donate more, but at least tweak the message. If KJ knocked on my door and said what the e-mail does ("I'm asking you to show your support again with a membership to the Cougar Athletic Fund"), my answer would be 'Well, Keith, I'm already a member. Thanks for stopping by.' Close door, back to the TV. And, honestly, I've done the equivalent with the e-mails.

In this age of electronic databases, it would not be difficult at all to screen out the 6,203 CAF members and send them a different form letter - maybe a 'thanks for giving...you wouldn't happen to have a little more?'

 

[425cougfan]

The major difference is attitude.

In the west football is seen as entertainment. Like a movie, or concert.

In the south it's not entertainment. It's the culture. Small towns revolve around high school football games. Football is a part of who they are. The game isn't just a game. It's the community. A visiting team is coming to their stadium...they are invaders/opportunity to show them what the community is about.

In the west people go to the game to be entertained. They'll go if they are good, but well if there are other things to do who cares. If the team isn't perceived as good...let me know when they are good I'll show up. No pride in showing visitors what they are about. No interest in forming an identity.

In the south/midwest people go to the game because it's part of the connection to the community. They'll go no matter what because not going is like abandoning their identity. There father was an Alabama fan. Their mother was an Alabama fan, and they are an Alabama fan and their kids will be Alabama fans. They know all the cheers. Every fight song. Every player, and every tradition. They plan their fall around the game, and they make it a point to never...ever miss a game.

View embedded media

To someone outside it looks crazy, but to hem it's everyday life. They love the team, and the school, and the community and to not support it...that would sound crazy to them.

If you want to see a teams in the Northwest that do something similar look at Boise...look at BYU... while BYU is religious affiliation...BYU is their identity..just like Notre Dame is for Catholics. It's who they are.

For Boise the Blue Turf and that hideous orange and blue is who they are. That community cares...that community wants an identity and has cultivated it. Oregon bought theirs with checks from Phil Knight... but look at what they did. The O logo. The stadium. the fancy uniforms. They created a culture with marketing.

WSU culture is... we'll leave at half time...and we have our flag on game day. The flag with ol' Crimson is great, but what about at the actual game...what about the culture before gameday. Where is that? Not really there. Maybe it's the distance, but like flat said people in small towns in the south make the journey and would never ever think otherwise not to.

The game for people up here is just some activity...the game for others is a way of life and a part of who they are.

Let's not aggrandize Boise too much. Boise State certainly has some fans and there isn't much else that competes for a sports fan's attention in Boise, but they have had a relatively hard time with attendance in a 36,000-seat stadium in a metro area of about 670,000, despite having enjoyed one of the greatest stretches of winning you could imagine that program having: http://magicvalley.com/sports/colle...cle_1783aafa-358b-11e4-81b0-001a4bcf887a.html

If the program ever goes through anything approaching a rough stretch, you could see some real problems there.

 

[chipdouglas]

You might find that other parts of the country have hiking too. This is a pic from the official State of Alabama Travel site.

In general, I agree with the idea that people on the west coast have taken the attitude that football is not "THE" priority in the fall and over time that leads to fans that aren't as involved as those in the south and midwest. I'd agree with those that say that the south is where they take football the most serious. People in the area where I live tend to be really excited when their teams are good and not all that worried when they aren't. Sounds familiar?

Sorry to all for going way OT, but... that is a real [though no doubt edited] picture but not at all representative of the opportunities offered by the rest of the country.

I'm from the PNW where I became an avid hiker and outdoorsman, but have also lived in California, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri and New York. Things like the picture above are so hard to find in the south and the midwest, and they're often hours of driving from civilization. I'm not saying they have nothing, but it's very limited and often inaccessible. When I moved to STL someone who knew I was a big hiker got me a "Best Hikes within 50 miles of..." book and on the cover, its flagship hike was a flat pond area with a highway visible in the background. Few places are like the NW. The NE has more opportunities but they're markedly less dramatic than PNW scenery. California is beautiful, particularly along the coast, but only the Tahoe/Big Bear areas seem to offer NW-type outdoor opportunities. I've added a pic of Mt Ellinor (WA) which you won't easily find elsewhere in the country, and of Top of the Rock near Branson MO. One is easy to find (WA) and the other is about all the midwest has going on:

If you're ever in SW Missouri it would be criminal not to go to Top of the Rock at Big Cedar Lodge, and of course the Bass Pro Shops flagship store in Springfield. The BPS store should be a "before I die" item for every sportsman - you will never see anything like it.

 

[Cougatron]

Let's not aggrandize Boise too much. Boise State certainly has some fans and there isn't much else that competes for a sports fan's attention in Boise, but they have had a relatively hard time with attendance in a 36,000-seat stadium in a metro area of about 670,000, despite having enjoyed one of the greatest stretches of winning you could imagine that program having: http://magicvalley.com/sports/colle...cle_1783aafa-358b-11e4-81b0-001a4bcf887a.html

If the program ever goes through anything approaching a rough stretch, you could see some real problems there.

That article was interesting, I wonder if it has to do with ticket prices. The article mentioned that the the average ticket price was 125 bucks. That seems pretty high for Boise. I wonder how much ticket pricing should be adjusted.

 

[chinookpirate]

http://www.stubhub.com/boise-state-football-tickets-boise-state-vs-hawaii-10-3-2015/event/9253831/

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Above is a picture of Providence Canyon State Park in SW Georgia. It's called the "Grand Canyon of Georgia". It's only a couple hundred feet deep but it's got miles of hiking trails.

There are some great places to hike in the south if you know where to look. What's interesting is that "miles from civilization" is a state of mind type thing. It might take you a couple hours to get to a spot like the Canyon above, but if you've ever driven up to Mount Rainier, you know it takes the better part of a day for the round-trip driving. Getting up to North Cascades is a couple hour trip. I went to Tybee Island, Georgia and walking on the beach there in February was a more comfortable and enjoyable experience than walking on the beach in Ocean Shores in just about any May or June. I stopped by Fort Pulawski Park and checked out the confederate fort that was assaulted by the union in 1862. The destruction of the fort's walls by rifled artillery marked the end of coastal forts as a viable defense option. There are plenty of interesting travel opportunities in the south within an easy drive if one is motivated.

Of course, the Pacific NW and many parts of the west are hard to beat when it comes to outdoors activities, but most people I know up in Washington don't really do that much outdoors. They can say that they are out hiking on a fall Saturday afternoon, but most of the people I knew in Washington were sitting on their couches those days instead. I suppose the option is always there though.

As said by others above, the culture of the south and the way that those people identify with their local college teams is completely different than what we see in the west. Some of it might have to do with the aftermath of the civil war as well. The south was a pretty dismal place for decades and I suppose it's possible that college teams gave them something to rally around and have some pride in.

 

[Cougatron]

http://www.stubhub.com/boise-state-football-tickets-boise-state-vs-hawaii-10-3-2015/event/9253831/

So is it the pricing or the 3rd party market...probably both. People are discouraged by the pricing and want to wait to for cheaper tickets. (Thus lower initial sales) Third parties undercut pricing so people wait to buy tickets which limits the commitment.

 

[chinookpirate]

Ticket office prices are MSRP.

Stub hub represents current market pricing

 

[Cougatron]

Ticket office prices are MSRP.

Stub hub represents current market pricing

No it doesn't. MSRP stands for manufacturer suggested retail price. The university itself is a retailer. Stub Hub prices are third party re-sellers which is different.

 

[Coug1990]

Of course, the Pacific NW and many parts of the west are hard to beat when it comes to outdoors activities, but most people I know up in Washington don't really do that much outdoors. They can say that they are out hiking on a fall Saturday afternoon, but most of the people I knew in Washington were sitting on their couches those days instead. I suppose the option is always there though.

You gave me a big laugh when it appears that you believe that the circle of people you know in the state of Washington represents how the over seven million other residents of Washington are.

 

[chinookpirate]

Because the 7 million people of Washington are the same?

bet I got a bigger laff than u did.

Think of it this way... WSU floats an issue of 'football ticket stock' at the offering price. Until fully subscribed, investors are free to purchase up to... all remaining stock.

Stubhub(and others) Provide a 24/7/365 active, realtime secondary market for current ticket owners.(to Tron)

 

[Coug1990]

Because the 7 million people of Washington are the same?

bet I got a bigger laff than u did.

Chinook, you and your 39 likes always get a bigger laugh than me. Of course, everyone is laughing at you, not with you.

 

[froropmkr72]

Because the 7 million people of Washington are the same?

bet I got a bigger laff than u did.

Very UNLIKE all those people in Oregon.....huh!! All these people laughed for over 47 minutes over the last 30 minutes.

 

[chinookpirate]

You like to speak for "everybody" quite often, 1990. Why is that?

 

[Coug1990]

You like to speak for "everybody" quite often, 1990. Why is that?

Are you saying that people don't laugh at you and your 39 likes?

 

[chipdouglas]

Above is a picture of Providence Canyon State Park in SW Georgia. It's called the "Grand Canyon of Georgia". It's only a couple hundred feet deep but it's got miles of hiking trails.

There are some great places to hike in the south if you know where to look. What's interesting is that "miles from civilization" is a state of mind type thing. It might take you a couple hours to get to a spot like the Canyon above, but if you've ever driven up to Mount Rainier, you know it takes the better part of a day for the round-trip driving. Getting up to North Cascades is a couple hour trip. I went to Tybee Island, Georgia and walking on the beach there in February was a more comfortable and enjoyable experience than walking on the beach in Ocean Shores in just about any May or June. I stopped by Fort Pulawski Park and checked out the confederate fort that was assaulted by the union in 1862. The destruction of the fort's walls by rifled artillery marked the end of coastal forts as a viable defense option. There are plenty of interesting travel opportunities in the south within an easy drive if one is motivated.

Of course, the Pacific NW and many parts of the west are hard to beat when it comes to outdoors activities, but most people I know up in Washington don't really do that much outdoors. They can say that they are out hiking on a fall Saturday afternoon, but most of the people I knew in Washington were sitting on their couches those days instead. I suppose the option is always there though.

When I lived in WA I used wta.org (and word of mouth) to find amazing hikes. If you pull it up in your area, you're likely to find dozens within 10 or 20 miles. The south and midwest have a lot of state parks, but rarely are they (a) as dramatic or impressive as any given PNW hike and (b) you're much less likely to find them - much less many of them - in that same distance. That's not quite a 'state of mind' thing - I know, I lived there. Even if you go to Tallulah Falls, e.g., you won't find many people unless it's peak summer. Last time I went there on a Saturday afternoon in spring and maybe saw a dozen other people there in 3 hours.

To your point, yes, the south (and even midwest) typically have far more to offer as far as history is concerned. Savannah and Charleston are among the most beautiful cities on the east coast, and my folks just went to Tybee Island last year and loved it. It's not that there's nothing to offer.

You're right that relatively few people make good use of what is available in the PNW. I plan a hike everytime I'm home in Seattle but friends and family who join me are often shocked at how close and scenic these opportunities are - but then never follow through on claims that it's inspired them to do more of it. I'm a snob but I laugh at people who think they're hikers because they drive a Subaru with a Sierra Club sticker and hiked Si once. But I did a 4 AM sunrise summit of Mt. Ellinor last month and passed a dozen people just on the way down around 7 AM - if you know Ellinor, it's somewhat popular but couldn't be more remote for 'mainlanders'. You can't make claims about what entire states of people do, but having lived in 6 states in every region now, I can say there is a clear cultural difference - being outdoors (non-hunting) is a huge part of lifestyle in the NW that is not shared by other regions... and yet far too many people (for my tastes) prefer not to experience the amazing area they live in, and instead experience it as if they lived anywhere else in the country.

 

[chinookpirate]

Chip is trying very hard here 1990 to keep this thread above board in spite of your trolling off topic... in this thread. (your last 4 posts in a row... ouch!)

I'm going to respect his efforts.

 

[Coug1990]

Chip is trying very hard here 1990 to keep this thread above board in spite of your trolling off topic... in this thread. (your last 4 posts in a row... ouch!)

I'm going to respect his efforts.

Like when I wrote something to Flat and you had to interject to me? That was not keeping it above board. Yours was also an interjection that actually agreed with my point, not Flat's. Flat was intimating that people he knows were indicative of all the people here in Washington. Why didn't you point that out?

What I find interesting is that you wanted to bring me down a notch despite the fact that I just pointed out the absurdity of what he was saying, you know, the thing you accused me.

Lastly, you speak for Chip now?

 

[95coug]

Above is a picture of Providence Canyon State Park in SW Georgia. It's called the "Grand Canyon of Georgia". It's only a couple hundred feet deep but it's got miles of hiking trails.

There are some great places to hike in the south if you know where to look. What's interesting is that "miles from civilization" is a state of mind type thing. It might take you a couple hours to get to a spot like the Canyon above, but if you've ever driven up to Mount Rainier, you know it takes the better part of a day for the round-trip driving. Getting up to North Cascades is a couple hour trip. I went to Tybee Island, Georgia and walking on the beach there in February was a more comfortable and enjoyable experience than walking on the beach in Ocean Shores in just about any May or June. I stopped by Fort Pulawski Park and checked out the confederate fort that was assaulted by the union in 1862. The destruction of the fort's walls by rifled artillery marked the end of coastal forts as a viable defense option. There are plenty of interesting travel opportunities in the south within an easy drive if one is motivated.

Of course, the Pacific NW and many parts of the west are hard to beat when it comes to outdoors activities, but most people I know up in Washington don't really do that much outdoors. They can say that they are out hiking on a fall Saturday afternoon, but most of the people I knew in Washington were sitting on their couches those days instead. I suppose the option is always there though.

As said by others above, the culture of the south and the way that those people identify with their local college teams is completely different than what we see in the west. Some of it might have to do with the aftermath of the civil war as well. The south was a pretty dismal place for decades and I suppose it's possible that college teams gave them something to rally around and have some pride in.

The south (and east) have history in abundance. The west has scenic landscapes...in abundance. The south has been settled and "civilized" for hundreds of years, with people living close together. The west is comparatively recently settled, with lots of open space still. The east is traditional, the south is social, the west is independent and attached to the outdoors...and that may explain part of the football culture. Southerners see the games as social events, westerners don't...and aren't as interested in those events anyway.

The Portland and Seattle areas are perennially high on the lists of healthiest and most active cities. That doesn't happen by sitting on the couch. Maybe you knew a lot of people sitting on their couches because you were on yours.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I spent most of my 20's in Oklahoma and Texas. There were three primary topics of discussion when I took a customer to lunch: football, politics and religion. And depending upon the time of year, they were interchangeable.

 

[SCglory]

vs the midwest.

Throughout the years, it inevitably comes up that the West Coast fans suck. Rose Bowl never fills for the home team, this stadium or that stadium is renovating and taking seats out, etc. etc. If you've ever been in the midwest (or South) during college football season, it's pretty crazy stuff. Nothing is seen like it West of the Rockies. But it's always hard to describe. The "football is a religion" statement has become so cliche. Grippi's article Sunday gives a pretty good window into West Coast fandom.

You watching the Hawks today? I know, a stupid question. The weather is too nice for that.

When the Mid-west is saying, "The weather is too nice to NOT go to a game!", we wait until the weather is crappy, then complain about the weather… lol. It was a simple statement, a joke, but really points to the mentality difference, IMHO. Nothing else to be seen here, but Grippi's joke really sprung out of the page at me, as to the mental difference between regions.

Well, true for the most part. Oregon has been able to capture some of the intensity and social patterns of the south when it comes to football. And most everything that can be said about "football as religion" can be said about Oregon football. BTW, if you ever see a copy of Robson's Think World Religions he makes a persuasive (and obvious) case that there are many instances of sports having all the characteristics of a religion (sacred spaces, clothing, meals, rituals, etc). And, not sure which "hawks" you're referring to, but the adulation for the Seahawks in the entire NW is the same way, certainly close. When I travel throughout Washington and Oregon, there is NO END to the "12th man" flags, pennants, license plates, etc. that I see, from Astoria to Burns, and from Ilwaco to Spokane. Patterns either catch on or they don't. I agree with you that, in large measure the affection and fervor is not there, but there are notable exceptions.

 

[95coug]

Well, true for the most part. Oregon has been able to capture some of the intensity and social patterns of the south when it comes to football. And most everything that can be said about "football as religion" can be said about Oregon football. BTW, if you ever see a copy of Robson's Think World Religions he makes a persuasive (and obvious) case that there are many instances of sports having all the characteristics of a religion (sacred spaces, clothing, meals, rituals, etc). And, not sure which "hawks" you're referring to, but the adulation for the Seahawks in the entire NW is the same way, certainly close. When I travel throughout Washington and Oregon, there is NO END to the "12th man" flags, pennants, license plates, etc. that I see, from Astoria to Burns, and from Ilwaco to Spokane. Patterns either catch on or they don't. I agree with you that, in large measure the affection and fervor is not there, but there are notable exceptions.

And....winning helps a lot. Remember how popular the Mariners were throughout the region, starting with the come-from-behind to win the division in 1995 and going through the 116-win season in 2001? That faded within 2-3 seasons once they returned to losing. Now it's the Seahawks turn - they're one of the top teams in the NFL, and it's tough to get tickets. If they string together 2-3 sub-.500, non-playoff seasons, the 12th man flags will start fading away.

 

[LoveJeffersonFanClub]

And....winning helps a lot. Remember how popular the Mariners were throughout the region, starting with the come-from-behind to win the division in 1995 and going through the 116-win season in 2001? That faded within 2-3 seasons once they returned to losing. Now it's the Seahawks turn - they're one of the top teams in the NFL, and it's tough to get tickets. If they string together 2-3 sub-.500, non-playoff seasons, the 12th man flags will start fading away.

I like the Seahawks and am enjoying the run they are on. However, I am also one of the worst Seattle fans around because I don't mind it when the teams lose because I can afford to go to games. A couple of back to back 3-13 seasons and I am back at the Clink.