Time to be real here and call it like it is...
- Thread starter poose&claws
- Start date
well, in his defense, it's hard to argue otherwise. we're a pretty good team. we had a nice run through the mostly mediocre parts of the pac, but we shit the bed against the really good teams on the sched. it is what it is. go to a decent bowl. beat the opponent. finish strong.
"finish strong?" The season looks like a perfect friggin bell curve. Cougs crapped the bed at the start and at the end, did well in the middle. I get it (finish as in winning their bowl game), not sure which bowl committee is gonna want the team I saw tonight.
and better coaching. But besides having better players and coaches I would say the two teams are about equal....
The past 2 seasons, WSU is a "best of the rest" type program. The offense has been good enough to beat many teams, but this year our defense regressed, pretty badly in fact.
The head coach always bears the biggest burden, but my eyes are on Grinch. He's brought good energy to the program, but we need more moving forward if we hope to be more than a 7-8 win team.
The head coach always bears the biggest burden, but my eyes are on Grinch. He's brought good energy to the program, but we need more moving forward if we hope to be more than a 7-8 win team.
He's had 2 year and I would still say this year's defense is a lot better than anything the last guy put together. You can throw the recruits that came in last year to the wolves or let them redshirt and develop over a few years. They are going to continue to place a premium on speed with LBs like Jahad Woods, etc. and the DEs we already have and will see from last years class, hopefully this years class. It doesn't happen overnight and that's about what Grinch has had in 2 years as DC.
Crucial difference beyond UWs secondary is the interior DLinemen over in Seattle. We have to get better in the middle if we ever want to impose on defense.
Today and last week were clear indicators that we are weak on defense. We need speed on d. We need a solid d line. Grinch has done a good job, but he has a ways to go to get our defense up to high quality metrics. Start with tackling and go from there. Its time to expect more.
Yup. I watched some Palouse posse video the other day. That happened....in Pullman. Need some bad asses in here that are looking for a fist fight (not intended to be a joke). We got punched in the face today and nobody punched back on defense. With the crowd juiced up the way it was, causing false starts, etc. that was unacceptable. Hope this one sticks with the young guys a bit too. At some point it has to get old being the UWs punching bag.
If you want to be real, we have a lot of Coug fans that need to get a grip on reality and understand that losing to 11-1 UW isn't the sign of anything other than a bad day at the office against a good team. Two years ago, we had people defending a 4-8 record and saying that we needed to be patient. We are sitting at 8-4 with three of the losses against pretty darned good football teams and honestly.....four pretty good teams. I'm not happy about the mistakes made today that created the blowout, but who cares, it's a lot better than we used to watch. If we want to be real, it takes time to really instill a winning mentality. The mutts had 6 losses in 5 out of the past 6 seasons. It took them 8 years to get to the point where they are. Leach is in year 5. We as fans need to relax and enjoy the good moments and not stress about the games like today.....for now. I know it's going to suck to be around mutt fans but hey, we can all root for Alabama next month.
I don't think that's fair. Most fans have a grip on reality, and they're thrilled that we were playing for the North title today. Thing is, the vast majority of WSU fans don't follow the program closely, so they saw a product that, despite the same conference record coming in, is light years away from UW in terms of defensive talent.
The dust will settle, and WSU will get to a midlevel bowl game. Excitement will be good again next September, especially with some decent early home nonconference games vs. Nevada and Boise State. The question is, what kind of team will we bring back? New QB? Who replaces Marks and Cracraft? Defensive line? If Falk comes back, I'd say we have a chance to win 7-8 games. Without him, we'll be fighting for bowl eligibility.
This is essentially true. Against Colorado and the Ewe, the two best defenses in the Pac-12, we were outscored 69 to 24 the last six quarters of the season. It's also true we missed many key opportunities against both teams, but good teams capitalize. And let's face it, the Air Raid hasn't scored more than 17 points v. UW in the last four ACs. That's a trend, folks.
I don't mind the run of the mill Coug fans on Facebook pissing down their legs about the loss today. What disappoints me is coming to places like these where I've seen people lecturing on patience and then throwing a fit today. I know it's a rivalry game and it sucks to lose to the stinkin' mutts and listen to their fans, but it's not like the world ended and everything that the team has done in the past two years is gone.
It's obvious that WSU is a slight upgrade from the mutts in 2014 and about equal to the mutts last year. They feasted on bad teams in 2014 and went 0-6 against teams with winning records. In 2015, they went 3-5 in the regular season against teams with winning records. This year, we went 2-4. Does that mean anything? Maybe not.
As far as the team next year, I agree that getting Falk back is critical for us to have a great season. I think we can be good with Hilinski running the show, but obviously Falk would be preferred. I remember when our team was going to suck because Halliday was graduating and it seems to have worked out ok. Hilinski has at least taken some live Pac-12 snaps and looked good doing it.
The OL should (could?) be fine. We lose Middleton and Sorenson, but we have plenty of big bodies to plug in there. Losing O'Connell on top of that if he goes early would start to hurt. Losing him may be as big of a deal as Falk.
I'm not worried about the DL at all next year. We looked fine without Barber already and Mitchell isn't a force we'll miss. Our recent DL recruiting has been sketchy and I'm definitely worried in the longer term. I will not be surprised to see Hercules leave early and the idea of losing Tapa, Hercules and Ekuale after next season makes me nervous.
Nothing easily replaces Cracraft's fearlessness across the middle or Marks' ability to drag the toe, but we have a deep, talented receiver core that will grow into the role. If we truly believe in Leach and think that he's building something, there is no reason to think that 2017 is a disaster waiting to happen. It may not be a 9 win season, but then again, if we finish 6-6 in our "down year", I can live with that. Arizona, ASU, OSU, Oregon and Cal have looked terrible and there is nothing to suggest that they are suddenly going to be great again. Stanford may finally be settling back into the pack. They've looked very mediocre when McCaffery wasn't excelling. Too early to panic for next year.
I do have some concerns for 2018 when I look at the long term chart for S, DL, LB and CB because we graduate a lot of starters in the next couple years. DL is the only position where recruiting has been really poor though. Joe definitely needs to work the magic on the DL down the road, both in recruiting and development. Right now, we can't afford a bunch of misses.
Last edited:
This is Peterson's third year. I think it's safe to say that they are turned around and already heading in the right direction? (understatement). That's what an excellent coach does: Harbaugh, Meyer, Carroll. They turn around programs and their impact is next to immediate. The gulf between the teams I saw last night is vast and not close to being bridged. And I'm speaking about players and coaching. Outside of Marks, who left Martin Stadium a winner and showing how it's done, the rest of the team looked a whole division underneath the huskies. If the cougs were to make a real commitment to getting an established and proven D-Coord, and dump the kid who's obviously in over his head, that would be a significant (and doable) step in the right direction. I have seen enough poor DCs at SC (with great talent) who were also poor in their jobs (the venerated Kiffin, Sr. comes to mind--his was one of the worst Ds ever). WSU could get HUGE upside and value for money by dumping Grinch and going out and getting a DC who gets it done. I'm telling you: there is no way that Grinch will be able to do that. And you get an established DC, kids want to play for him and they'll hope to go to the NFL (and that is reasonable). But if they don't, with Leach's obvious weaknesses, what we saw last night will happen again and again and again. Defense wins championships--whether college or pro.
Is every situation the same? SC, you say a lot of smart things but that post was really, really dumb. Every example you listed was one where the school was loaded with talent or one where they could build talent quickly (Harbaugh at Stanford). Sarkisian was at UW for five years and never finished better than 9-4, yet everyone felt that he did a good job there. How does that fit into your story?
Again, it's disappointing to see fans who should know better peeing down their legs because we had a bad day at the office. Leach obviously has work to do but that isn't because he's suddenly terrible. Hell, 3 days ago, there was a thread comparing him to Bill Snyder, widely regarded as the architect of the greatest turnaround in college football history. Relax!
Again, it's disappointing to see fans who should know better peeing down their legs because we had a bad day at the office. Leach obviously has work to do but that isn't because he's suddenly terrible. Hell, 3 days ago, there was a thread comparing him to Bill Snyder, widely regarded as the architect of the greatest turnaround in college football history. Relax!
Petersen walked into a good situation. Sarkisian was too busy getting wasted and chasing tail to win with the players he recruited.
If you think about this problem of graduating a lot of starters though, it's a good problem to have. This is happening because Leach is red shirting a lot of players, keeping them in school, and they are not cracking the depth chart till their junior year...look at OConnell.
This is college football and everyone has to replace players. I'm happy with the fact that the program is finally to the point where we consistently have upper classmen getting most of the PT. Who knows, Hillinski might be better than Falk?!
Flat, you need to put all this in context. These posts are coming immediately after an Apple Cup with huge stakes and a fairly poor performance by WSU against a real good team. Fans are going to react with expected disappointment whether they are casual fans or knowledgeable fans (which most on this board are). It's human nature and I don't have a problem with people using this forum as a way to release some frustrations....which is why it's okay during the game for people to write stuff they wouldn't write the next day. Emotions are intensified on game day and the day after. I suspect most of us will have "a grip" by Monday and appreciate an overall good, not great, season.
Glad Cougar
You think we'll beat Nevada? Speaking of trends (see Yaki's post). I'll go on record now and predict we lose in an "upset" to them and everyone will be like "WTH?!!.
Some of you never learn...
Last edited:
It's understandable that people are upset. We had a chance to beat the huskies and go to the championship game. The stakes were very high and we got routed. It sucks, but definitely not the end of the world.
But we need to keep things in perspective.
Last 5 years
UW
7-6
9-4
8-6
7-6
11-1
WSU
3-9
6-7
3-9
9-4
8-4
Overall as a program we still have some catching up to do, but the good news is we are progressing towards consistency.
And we were pretty far behind but playing UW for the north is not bad, and while our performance left much to be desired we still are moving forward, but unfortunately UW has made their next step as well.
We just didn't have enough to punch it in and fell short again and again, but we are a lot closer than some may think.
UW is a playoff contender. We aren't/weren't that far off but still have to keep moving forward.
Yes it's disappointing, but we are going to have back to back winning seasons. Something we hadn't done in 15 years.
Think about that. There are kids we are starting recruit that were just born the last time we have done that.
Look where we are as a program
These are the PAC-12 teams NOT going bowling
Oregon
Oregon State
UCLA
ASU
Arizona
Cal
So don't be too down guys, I understand being disappointed/upset, but we get extra practice time a bowl for the post season, as our program gets better and some people are going to be left wondering wtf happened to what they once had.
But we need to keep things in perspective.
Last 5 years
UW
7-6
9-4
8-6
7-6
11-1
WSU
3-9
6-7
3-9
9-4
8-4
Overall as a program we still have some catching up to do, but the good news is we are progressing towards consistency.
And we were pretty far behind but playing UW for the north is not bad, and while our performance left much to be desired we still are moving forward, but unfortunately UW has made their next step as well.
We just didn't have enough to punch it in and fell short again and again, but we are a lot closer than some may think.
UW is a playoff contender. We aren't/weren't that far off but still have to keep moving forward.
Yes it's disappointing, but we are going to have back to back winning seasons. Something we hadn't done in 15 years.
Think about that. There are kids we are starting recruit that were just born the last time we have done that.
Look where we are as a program
These are the PAC-12 teams NOT going bowling
Oregon
Oregon State
UCLA
ASU
Arizona
Cal
So don't be too down guys, I understand being disappointed/upset, but we get extra practice time a bowl for the post season, as our program gets better and some people are going to be left wondering wtf happened to what they once had.
But the glorified one says the turnaround at the Ewe was immediate...
UW is good. But they weren't unbeatable yesterday.
Same with* CU.
EDIT: *for sentence structure
Same with* CU.
EDIT: *for sentence structure
Last edited:
It's perfectly fine for fans to express disappointment after losing the fourth-straight game to the cross-state rival, but it was the pissing and moaning, the sniping and griping during the first eleven games - and the winning streak - that was so precious.
When one sees their speed and athleticism live - and a creative offensive scheme that puts it to great use - it's easy to see why they've been winning. The UW's defensive pursuit also was impressive, which made Marks' ability to gain separation on occasion even more remarkable. It's just too bad Falk didn't have the arm to get him the ball.
I was there. 600 miles in a day. They executed their game plan and the Cougs didn't.
One of the amazing things about the UW offense is you know the trick plays are coming, but defenses still can't stop them.
Oregon just scored on a reverse pass. I wish we'd run trick plays once in awhile.
You've seen my other posts. We just played back-to-back games at Colorado and against UW. Both top-10 programs. They're both better than us, and the cumulative impact was brutal. Don't panic people.
I know UW is our rival, but why act surprised that Ross, McClatcher, Pettis and Browning picked us apart? They lit up everyone.
Congrats to them. They attacked us exactly how I would have. Grinch plays a lot of man to man, so UW kept finding those match ups and beating us. We can't cry about this one. They have matchups all day against us.
Congrats to them. They attacked us exactly how I would have. Grinch plays a lot of man to man, so UW kept finding those match ups and beating us. We can't cry about this one. They have matchups all day against us.
They owned the D at the LOS.
This is why I've been critical of Grinch. Our pass rush was laughable, and several times, we only rushed 3. You have to bring pressure. Don't be stubborn.
Pick your poison...we brought pressure and they quick screened us to death with really quick receivers. Grinch threw everything at them...nothing worked.
I didn't see us being any pressure until midway through the 2nd quarter. The game was decided by then.
Might be wrong again but I would be surprised if either Falk or O'Connell leave early. Falk's potential draft status took a solid hit last Saturday. O'Connell only has one full year of work and most of the NFL teams look to OTs, especially blind side ones, for their non-center OL selections. And do not forget that O'Connell has a history (senior year of high school) of a knee injury. I just do not expect an NFL team to use a high draft choice on an offensive guard with limited playing time and a questionable knee. I would expect them to want to see another year of performance and health before making that commitment.
Agree about the line. Mauigoa and Osur-Myers should fill in adequately for Sorenson and Middleton. I don't expect lightning in a bottle like we caught with Cody but they should be O.K.
Partially agree about the receiving corps. We have a depth there but I have yet to see any of them show the consistency or hands of Marks or Cracraft yet. Hopefully, you are right and a couple or more will step up.
No need to panic IMO. Just the usual nervous anxiety regarding our future offense.
Not sure what to make of the defensive prospects. Need help on the line and linebacker positions. Too lazy to look up the numbers but Leach and crew have been going after DBs like they expect a future shortage. We should be fine there.
Last edited:
Yes, they smartly had Browning quickly get rid of the ball on screen passes or horizontal passes from the beginning to counter our rush. Zero sacks. Amazing.
