http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...ns-of-interest-in-weekend-party-assault-case/
My guess: suspension of 4, dismissal of 2.
My guess: suspension of 4, dismissal of 2.
Times article confirming pending felony assault charges
- Thread starter ttowncoug
- Start date
Unless someone is found guilty of or pleas guilty to a felony, I doubt there will be dismissals.
I'm not going to guess what happens but any of them that are charged need to be evaluated and punished appropriately. "Appropriate" is highly subjective at this point though.
A felony conviction is much different than a felony charge.
Of course, if any of these guys have already put other black marks on their resume, it could be enough.
Anyone who physically caused the injuries detailed in these stories should be kicked off the team, convicted of felony assault, and sentenced for serious jail/prison time. There is no room for this kind of behavior.
Agreed. Even if the "other guy" starts the fight, provokes you, whatever, there's a line drawn when you win the fight but decide to take it to the next level by beating him down and stomping him with the obvious intent of causing critical damage or even killing him. When your internal "back the Hell off" clock is that far out of whack, there's something wrong with you.
It's especially bad when you're the bigger, stronger person in the fight and don't relent when you're punching/kicking a lifeless body. I've been in and witnessed my fair share of brawls, and I've never seen injuries this bad.
In my much younger days,i have been in and witnessed fights which escalate to this level and beyond. The fight escalates to not being a fight but attempts to main or kill a person.When this happens the person doing the beating is not fighting but is totally out of control. Yes ,there is something wrong with these people . If this happened then it will not be handled internally and criminal charges may result. So far,it is speculation and a through investigation may shed light on this brutal and ugly incident.
I like how the female witness identifies Willie Roach (RS Sr. backup DB from Federal Way) as a player trying to stop the fight. Good job Willie.
I read the Times comments - a couple of commenters talking crap about Leach , basically saying that he recruits poor character players and condones this type of behavior. Is there some other Mike Leach out there? We all know that this is the exact opposite of the truth. CML may take a flyer on a second chance guy on occasion, but that is it and the leash is very short.
Everything I am reading shows that Athletics is doing the right things. The guy that did the kicking will be arrested and convicted and kicked out of school. I agree with ttown's prediction. We should remember that CML doesn't talk about anything (ex: injuries). He will bring the hammer down as needed, and names will quietly disappear from the roster. And he will go on about his business of being our coach.
Ruth Robbins?
As for the Times article, one player allegedly involved in the beatings has a unique hair style. I can think of one player, who played as a freshman this past season, who fits that description, and he does have a troubled past. Might not be him, but I do wonder.
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You get 100 kids whoever the coach is they will go a stray. No coach is immune to it. Tech was one of the leaders in arrests back in the mid 2000's in one calendar year. (Arrests that were reported via news outlets).
There were several kids Leach recruited that I believe went to Houston that got in serious trouble and fortunately for WSU they elected another school. The point isn't to say Leach is easy on crime, but rather this crap has happened with every coach.
Ah...don't think we will ever hear through the university. Did we ever hear about D Brown? My guess is you are probably right...two dismissals and four suspensions.
I personally know of one person who died in such a beating (a beating continued after he was down and unconscious). His assailant is in prison today, and the WSU football player/s who did this also should go to prison. As for the history of WSU football players getting involved in fights, there were many during the Walden era that should have been kicked out of school but were not. Price also had his share.
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I'd also add, they are still evaluating if the charges will even be brought forth. So the first step is if the Fed charges will be brought forth.
Then, presumably the families will be pushing the Criminal charges.
Then presumably the families will be bringing the Civil suites forth, as well. This seems to be a no-brainer and will happen regardless of the outcome of the Felony charges/Criminal charges happening or not.
There are multiple levels of "Oh $h!T" to this. Years and years of court.
Families going to bring civil suit against 18-20 year old kids with no income. That should be a fruitful endeavor....
The families at best could attempt to sue the owner of the home(insurance policy) being rented to kids who are dumb enough to furnish alcohol to minors at a party, which resulted in a fight that caused a serious injury. But then it turns out that the kid injured is an occupant of said home, and was complicit in the furnishing of alcohol to minors and is pretty much culpable for his own injury.
The families at best could attempt to sue the owner of the home(insurance policy) being rented to kids who are dumb enough to furnish alcohol to minors at a party, which resulted in a fight that caused a serious injury. But then it turns out that the kid injured is an occupant of said home, and was complicit in the furnishing of alcohol to minors and is pretty much culpable for his own injury.
I got to be honest, I am so sick of seeing posts like this (here or other internet places). No one, NO ONE deserves a beating like that in that situation. Whether they ACTUALLY themselves supplied alcohol to the party or not is completely irrelevant to the criminal case at hand. Plus, you cannot tell me accurately if the suspects came to the party sober to get drunk or if they already were drunk and then came to the party sloppy, or if they were even drunk at all in the first place.
I've had to "kick" people out of my own parties when I was at WSU. Its never fun and I was almost always threatened when asking a bigger dude to leave. Luckily no one has ever throw a punch my way. I've had a roommate get his face smashed in by a 40.... I mean come on! Sometimes I would shut down parties simply because I wanted to head to "Mikes" to get lucky and people at my place would flip out (usually the couples intimately dancing and not wanting to be interrupted if you know what I mean).
The victims? Its their spot while they are renting it. They can ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason. Period. If I saw someone lighting fireworks off at my house I'd politely ask them to p*ss off as well.
I could be wrong and I don't mean to speak for CW, but… where in his post did he ever condone the action? I think he was realistically looking at what a Civil case would bring… nothing financial at all.
The criminal case could be seen in similar light. If it's found that the house actually provided alcohol for these players, the case is on shaky ground, I would think. And so it seems CW was saying as well.
I don't think anyone has said or is trying to say, someone was within their rights to stomp on a kid. Just saying either case COULD be worthless. CW seemed to be explaining areas that would cause a case to head south quick. I'm no lawyer, though so I'm pretty much spouting off…
I could be wrong and I don't mean to speak for CW, but… where in his post did he ever condone the action? I think he was realistically looking at what a Civil case would bring… nothing financial at all.
The criminal case could be seen in similar light. If it's found that the house actually provided alcohol for these players, the case is on shaky ground, I would think. And so it seems CW was saying as well.
I don't think anyone has said or is trying to say, someone was within their rights to stomp on a kid. Just saying either case COULD be worthless. CW seemed to be explaining areas that would cause a case to head south quick. I'm no lawyer, though so I'm pretty much spouting off…
I probably jumped the gun, but it was this sentence: "to kids who are dumb enough to furnish alcohol to minors at a party, which resulted in a fight that caused a serious injury.", that I was reading as an implication of responsibility.
Also, drunk people go to jail all the time for committing crimes lol, in this case I don't buy the whole "But your Honor, its not my fault! They gave me beer which increased my aggression and made me want to hurt them bad"
I don't think the parents would expect to extract a lot of money from the kid. I would suspect it would be another type of justice...IE spend resources defending himself and if they win but get zero dollars I would suspect that is a win to them.I could be wrong and I don't mean to speak for CW, but… where in his post did he ever condone the action? I think he was realistically looking at what a Civil case would bring… nothing financial at all.
The criminal case could be seen in similar light. If it's found that the house actually provided alcohol for these players, the case is on shaky ground, I would think. And so it seems CW was saying as well.
I don't think anyone has said or is trying to say, someone was within their rights to stomp on a kid. Just saying either case COULD be worthless. CW seemed to be explaining areas that would cause a case to head south quick. I'm no lawyer, though so I'm pretty much spouting off…
See, maybe from the many years of oaken aging, I don't see why anyone is surprised when these stories come out. Every couple years, some underage kid goes too far. Happens away from football, happens to/around the players. It just happens and it happened in my day. Feed an underage kid some alcohol and you don't know what fuse you just lit. Could be to a harmless smoke bomb, could be to a firecracker, could be a good ol' fashion M-80 or a stick of TNT. But I'll point out, this rarely happens to 21-25 kids on campus. I guess that's my personal perspective. Not condoning the stomping in any way or fashion. But I'm not surprised nor should anyone else. Some "incident" happens every few years. And IMHO, feeding an underaged kid alcohol is a toned down version of Russian Roulette. You just don't know what you'll get.
So in that light, I agree to a certain extent that feeding an underage kid alcohol is just dumb. I've done it (and so yes be default, I was dumb), so many others have done it and nothing like this ever happened. It's an odds game, IMHO. Not playing some "moral" card, just looking at it from a perspective of attempted fact. It happens. Just a matter of how far it goes. I'd wager a quick google search would find a death in the same rough circumstance as this one somewhere around the nation. Eventually a death will happen at WSU and some brawl/fight. And underaged drinking will be a major factor. It's just odds.
Underage drinking is illegal for a reason. They don't know what they're doing. They have hormones RAGING through them. They could be sad, mad, sloppy, crying, aggressive and doing push-ups in the middle of the party… Whatever. Who knows but it's all a crap shoot. We've all seen it.
But to get to the legal point… Because it's illegal (I'd point to the above for reasons), I'd say from my armchair legal perspective
, that it could make the Criminal case hard. And like CW states, I can see the Civil case is worthless, as well. What money do they think they'll get out of these kids?!Any, who… this is just plain, a bad, sad, stupid situation.
You are correct. The individuals should be held criminally liable if determined they committed crimes.
Civilly, I still stand behind my post. I'm not talking in moral sense, but legally. The residents are culpable any wrongdoing that preceded and led to this event. They furnished alcohol to minors at a party they hosted in their residence. They are most certainly, to some extent, liable for injuries that occur as a result(in part) of this.
In no way did I say the kid deserved the beating. Only that his ability to sue will be stymied by his own negligence.
I'm not saying this in a condescending way but there are vast differences between civil liability and criminal law. See OJ.
One thing i have found about criminal law is that there are no absolutes and nothing is as clear cut and concise as one thinks.A good criminal lawyer can change a situation as they offer different perspectives and possible scenarios. That said,there will be criminal charges filed and the defendants college football careers will probably be over before they start.
The families will have no influence on pursuit of criminal charges. This is a common misconception, reinforced by TV, but victims and families don't get to decide whether charges are filed. Cops investigate, prosecutors determine if there's enough to support a charge and/or a trial. The only way victims and families influence this is if they refuse to testify...which may erode the evidentiary basis of the case. But, if the prosecutor decides there's enough to work with, even without the testimony and cooperation of the victim, they're going ahead.
Ridiculous to blame Leach. The main responsibility lies with the individual. If we want to go all sociological or something, we can blame our athletic-crazy society too, as we often shovel adulation on these guys since they were in junior high.....
You can't be that naive to think that the victims here are going to limit their civil suits to the kids, can you???? Try: WSU football program, WSU athletics, etc., etc. The plaintiffs' attorney(s) will be using a shotgun not a rifle. When one of the victims says (and I believe him) that "I will have a different bite the rest of my life" because of the attack, that is a perfect tie to damages down the road......
Agreed. I only go with the claim of the father that he is going to "push" for criminal charges to be pursued. He can yap at the prosecutor all he wants and if it makes him feel like he's influencing, more power to him. Maybe the prosecutor has no spine and actually is being influenced… Who knows. But you are right. Outside influence shouldn't have any part in it. But the father has said he plans to try and influence that decision.
And how would WSU athletics, etc. be found liable for injuries that occurred on a private residence at a party that had nothing to do with WSU athletics? That's a big stretch. Plaintiff's attorney would have a better shot going after host of party or possibly the tenants/homeowner, but no way is there a case against WSU.
Very likely only going to find judgement proof defendant's in any civil case.
Does it really matter "where they have a better shot"? Back in the mid 90's I knew of a case in the real estate industry where a lender was being sued for the balance of the mortgage ($250,000) because when the homeowner bought the house a bathroom fan didn't work. The emotional damage apparently was too much for the new homeowner. Why was the mortgage company brought into it? The realtor (who was also being sued) recommended the inspector (who had no affiliation with the mortgage company) and the relator also recommended the buyer use the mortgage company. In turn the mortgage company hired the appraiser, and it was the buyers contention the appraiser should have performed a home inspection and noticed the fan didn't work.
The mortgage company spent 10k defending a case in which they were willing to put in the new fan even though they weren't obligated to. The judge ultimately threw out the case. But the buyer got the mortgage company, the appraiser, and the home inspector to pay out about 30k in attorney fees.
For some, that may be there justice.
I think you may be right. It is only local with Walden, Erickson, Price, Doba, Wulff and now Leach. Or maybe it is simply Leach. Tuesday, November 07, 2006
3 Texas Tech football players arrested on burglary charges[/paste:font]
Or maybe it is more wide spread than that. Since June 14 2016, players from Georgia, Miami, Alabama, Kentucky, Nebraska, USC and LSU have been arrested. And that was just a quick glance.
But yeah, I think it is just local and doesn't exist virtually everywhere.
So, 3 Players Arrested warrants this quote from you?
Being also an A&M Fan down here in Big12 Country, there are a lot more programs that were in the news Police Blotter during Leach's time at Tech. UT & A&M football players were stealing the newspaper headlines for criminal activity a lot more than Tech. That's why I wanted to see where you were pulling your "Leaders in Arrests" from cause I recall how many Aggies were getting in trouble during the Franchione - Sherman era. If Tech had more than UT & A&M, I would love to see what that number looks like.
Being also an A&M Fan down here in Big12 Country, there are a lot more programs that were in the news Police Blotter during Leach's time at Tech. UT & A&M football players were stealing the newspaper headlines for criminal activity a lot more than Tech. That's why I wanted to see where you were pulling your "Leaders in Arrests" from cause I recall how many Aggies were getting in trouble during the Franchione - Sherman era. If Tech had more than UT & A&M, I would love to see what that number looks like.
No A and M fan. It once was reported on Arrest Nation. Over the last 5 years WSU was number one in arrests with 31.
Yes, it matters. Very different type of case you use as an example. Plaintiff's attorney can likely bring an intentional tort against individual(s) who assaulted/battered the plaintiff/victim, and plaintiff may try to allege negligence of host or homeowner likely for how the alcohol was served. But there is no theory that can bring in WSU. How was WSU negligent?
Since your focus (obsession?) is once again on Leach, the most salient issue here is how Leach will deal with this. And since you injected Wulff into this thread, I highly doubt Leach will go crying and whining to anyone to keep offenders in school the way Wulff did with Andy Roof.
I know husky fans who check that site weekly for dirt on WSU and Oregon. Do you and Ruth have pizza/crisco parties when you get together for your research? Btw, the site itself says it tracks "arrests, legal citations, and charges." If WSU is No. 1, how much of the ranking consists of citations? Arrests? Charges? Is WSU No. 1 in the nation? The Pac-12? Have you tracked WSU's ranking during the Turd's reign?
Oscar, do I believe they can? Sure. Do I believe they will win or even make it very far? No. What happens if the kid WSU brought in had several incidents in the past. When they recruited him they knew he had several run ins and decided to take a risk anyway. My guess an attorney as SC claimed would throw anything against the wall in hopes it would stick.
My only point is I am not sure the parents are walking into this looking to make money and have unreal expectations about extracting money from anyone. I just see them getting even by filing a case and making the defendants (whoever they are) spend money on attorney fees.
