Slow news day, sorry.
Feel free to discuss the +/- of sitting during the anthem though since Mike Bennett has made it an issue again.
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Don't think there isn't just as much outrage over those that wander or DON'T TAKE THEIR FREAKING HATS OFF, at least for some. Just hasn't/doesn't hit the news cycle.I find the outrage over the anthem to be amusing, considering there's a good number of people to take the anthem as an opportunity to run to the restroom or go wait in line for a beer anyway.
The take I find most irritating is those who say, "I watch sports to escape reality. I don't need players bringing politics into my sports." As if the players should be mindless sports robots only here to entertain you. "Just shut up and entertain me, athlete. I don't care what you think, just hit the quarterback so I can be happy for 30 seconds."
I find the outrage over the anthem to be amusing, considering there's a good number of people to take the anthem as an opportunity to run to the restroom or go wait in line for a beer anyway.
The take I find most irritating is those who say, "I watch sports to escape reality. I don't need players bringing politics into my sports." As if the players should be mindless sports robots only here to entertain you. "Just shut up and entertain me, athlete. I don't care what you think, just hit the quarterback so I can be happy for 30 seconds."
I don't care about this that much, but:
- The preferences and desires of fans are important. The butts in the seats at games, and on couches watching these guys play, are what allow these guys to be multimillionaires instead of plying their trade for peanuts like old-school pro athletes. They may not be determinative in all cases, and the average NFL fan apparently is a knuckle-dragger, but it matters what they think about the product they are consuming, including how the athletes act.
- In my profession (and, I'd venture, most others), the employees aren't able to make whatever kind of "statement" they want to potential clients, customers, or whatever. I don't get to wear a "Never Trump" (or "All Lives Matter," etc.) button when I meet with clients at my firm who are going to pay the firm millions of dollars, nor do McDonald's workers or anyone else. Is there reason to believe the athletes are particularly well-informed or experts on these topics? Why do athletes get to make statements, such that any pushback on that ability, or fans reacting in any given way to the views or actions of a particular player, is seen as inappropriate?
How would you suggest he protest?I'm happy to see the hysterics surrounding this topic haven't trickled onto this forum. What I see most often are the two strawman arguments of: "If you don't stand you hate America" and "If you don't support sitting, you hate black people." Of course both of these are absurd.
I don't think its appropriate to pursue personal endeavors on company time or property - he could easily call a press conference and make the same statements. I do feel the message is wasted as well, as most of the discussion revolves around the act and not the purpose for the act.
Finally, I don't think raising awareness is what this country needs - we are smacked in the face daily by the racial tensions (as they exist) by every news and social media outlet available. I find that calls to action without an actual plan for action are hollow and, to me, reek of attention seeking behavior (not that Bennett does that... at all.)
While Bennett does do a lot of admirable charity work in Seattle, I find this gesture to be well meaning but poorly thought out. Stomping your feet and screaming "someone should do something" is hardly helpful in the grand scope of things. I know that is harsh and he's well meaning, but we need more from leaders in the black (and white) community, and if he's going to put himself out there he needs to accept the responsibility.
Holding a sign, outside a Mariners game would work pretty effectively, I would think.How would you suggest he protest?
I'm happy to see the hysterics surrounding this topic haven't trickled onto this forum. What I see most often are the two strawman arguments of: "If you don't stand you hate America" and "If you don't support sitting, you hate black people." Of course both of these are absurd.
I don't think its appropriate to pursue personal endeavors on company time or property - he could easily call a press conference and make the same statements. I do feel the message is wasted as well, as most of the discussion revolves around the act and not the purpose for the act.
Finally, I don't think raising awareness is what this country needs - we are smacked in the face daily by the racial tensions (as they exist) by every news and social media outlet available. I find that calls to action without an actual plan for action are hollow and, to me, reek of attention seeking behavior (not that Bennett does that... at all.)
While Bennett does do a lot of admirable charity work in Seattle, I find this gesture to be well meaning but poorly thought out. Stomping your feet and screaming "someone should do something" is hardly helpful in the grand scope of things. I know that is harsh and he's well meaning, but we need more from leaders in the black (and white) community, and if he's going to put himself out there he needs to accept the responsibility.
I don't care about this that much, but:
- The preferences and desires of fans are important. The butts in the seats at games, and on couches watching these guys play, are what allow these guys to be multimillionaires instead of plying their trade for peanuts like old-school pro athletes. They may not be determinative in all cases, and the average NFL fan apparently is a knuckle-dragger, but it matters what they think about the product they are consuming, including how the athletes act.
- In my profession (and, I'd venture, most others), the employees aren't able to make whatever kind of "statement" they want to potential clients, customers, or whatever. I don't get to wear a "Never Trump" (or "All Lives Matter," etc.) button when I meet with clients at my firm who are going to pay the firm millions of dollars, nor do McDonald's workers or anyone else. Is there reason to believe the athletes are particularly well-informed or experts on these topics? Why do athletes get to make statements, such that any pushback on that ability, or fans reacting in any given way to the views or actions of a particular player, is seen as inappropriate?
To put it bluntly, because athletes are more irreplaceable than most of us are at our jobs. They get paid more, and their employers tolerate what they do more because they do their job better than 99.9% of rest of the population.
That doesn't mean they're well informed, but it is why they have a platform for their message that none of us have.
Just out of curiosity how many people do you think he or someone in his organization reach by holding a sign ? Maybe 70k if everything went perfect? On tv sitting? My guess 15 million plus . Sure seems like holding a sign is high schoolishHolding a sign, outside a Mariners game would work pretty effectively, I would think.
Or get a vendor license and get a booth outside a Seahawk game, have some people in it giving out paperwork, brochures, bumper stickers, whatever for the cause.
Social media can prove to be effective, if used properly.
I can think of a million ways. The same ways you or I would have to, actually.
Here's the problem though, being a famous athlete, he's never "off company time". Anything Bennett does will be reported as "Seahawks lineman Michael Bennett", not "Louisianna native Michael Bennett", or "Kirkland resident Michael Bennett". The guy is always a Seahawk. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, he is "Seahawk Michael Bennett".
I understand disagreeing with the WAY he's protesting. But, saying he shouldn't do it "on company time" makes no sense.
Where do you come down on the 1980 Olympic boycott or barring South Africa from the Olympics? Sports has always been used for political purposes beyond individual athletes mostly without the consent of the athletes.My position has always been that too often, people worry about what others are doing, even when it does no harm to others. One guy kneeling or sitting on the sideline to bring awareness to his cause does no real harm to anyone. I don't like it when people protest in ways that negatively impact other people regardless of their cause. I'm not a fan of liberals blocking an intersection to protect some critter in the wilderness and I don't like right wing folks that use the threat of physical violence to forward their causes. I'm opposed to anyone whose cause involves the reduction of opportunity and choice for people. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't harming someone or condoning something that causes harm......protest away.
Don't think there isn't just as much outrage over those that wander or DON'T TAKE THEIR FREAKING HATS OFF, at least for some. Just hasn't/doesn't hit the news cycle.
They have every right to do this. And while I don't agree with their vehicle of message, I respect them. I DO get their message. I do believe that because this has hit the news cycle so much, the point they are trying to make is being lost in the clutter. So really... there isn't a point. Those that are adamantly against this, will not see the message they are trying to convey. Those that that are for it... are already for it. This message is lost. Makes them feel good, so I guess there's that.
Its during a game, at c-link.
Before the game, after, outside of the locker room... all those things would be considered "not on work time" imho. That being said, if Paul Allen doesn't care I don't care.
I get Doug Baldwin's point. However, I think most of the fans doing that are just drunk or inconsiderate for lack of a better word. They're not wandering, not taking hats off, etc. to make some kind of statement, and no one is going to point a camera at them and broadcast it to millions of people.
I agree that they have the right to make their point. But, just like people when people quit buying the Dixie Chicks records, there may be a consequence that hits them in the wallet.
This guy may have been the most rational fan in the Clink if it was at the game that I am thinking of. We were getting our asses kicked in a driving rain. A game without any redeeming value. Get hammered and eat popcorn was one of the few remaining options. He made a statement that any true Coug would understand and support.
This guy may have been the most rational fan in the Clink if it was at the game that I am thinking of. We were getting our asses kicked in a driving rain. A game without any redeeming value. Get hammered and eat popcorn was one of the few remaining options. He made a statement that any true Coug would understand and support.
O.K., now you have me confused. The Halliday tantrum game? You will have to be more concise.
That was the Halliday tantrum game, where he followed the tantrum up with 3 picks in a row.
I think this was the game in which he was injured (which, again, doesn't narrow it down to one game). The game I think of as "the" Halliday tantrum game was against Oregon State. The last pick, in particular, he just threw up for grabs, seemingly without giving a damn at that point.
I'm trying to recall how many lousy Seattle games I attended, it its somewhere around 3 or 4. Maybe 5. So I might have them confused.
Obviously not the Hawaii game. I was at the OSU/ 3 pick tantrum game for sure - I thought that was which game popcorn guy was from.
A quick google search reveals that it was the Furd game that made popcorn guy famous. Not sure if I was at that one or not.
Slow news day, sorry.
Feel free to discuss the +/- of sitting during the anthem though since Mike Bennett has made it an issue again.
That was the Halliday tantrum game, where he followed the tantrum up with 3 picks in a row.
I'm trying to recall how many lousy Seattle games I attended, it its somewhere around 3 or 4. Maybe 5. So I might have them confused.
Obviously not the Hawaii game. I was at the OSU/ 3 pick tantrum game for sure - I thought that was which game popcorn guy was from.
A quick google search reveals that it was the Furd game that made popcorn guy famous. Not sure if I was at that one or not.
First, I never said that was the best option. I actually said there are many options. You refused to look beyond the simplistic so I offered the immediate options that came to mind. BUT... You don't think holding a sign (STILL... not saying that's the best option) wouldn't get a little TV time? Pulease.Just out of curiosity how many people do you think he or someone in his organization reach by holding a sign ? Maybe 70k if everything went perfect? On tv sitting? My guess 15 million plus . Sure seems like holding a sign is high schoolish
First, I never said that was the best option. I actually said there are many options. You refused to look beyond the simplistic so I offered the immediate options that came to mind. BUT... You don't think holding a sign (STILL... not saying that's the best option) wouldn't get a little TV time? Pulease.
Especially if he frames his discontent with, "I have nothing against how others express themselves but I thought this would be a great way for people to be able to come up to me, have conversation, debate and learn first hand how I feel and why I'm doing this. Others have decided to take a knee or sit during the anthem and I respect all of them. I felt this way is still a way to get the message out there and in my personal view, be respectful." TV would EAT. THAT. UP. ESPN would be all over it. Local/regional would be scheduling interviews, etc. A millionaire and lineman from the Seahawks, picketing a Mariners game would be a hell of a story.
PR 101. Bennett has said as much himself. He wishes others would come out. But they don't want the backlash. WELL... do something that won't create backlash and still get the message out. Not rocket science. IMHO, part of this issue is everyone in our world is looking for "shock value". Well, there's downside to that. This is a good example.
Here's the problem though, being a famous athlete, he's never "off company time". Anything Bennett does will be reported as "Seahawks lineman Michael Bennett", not "Louisianna native Michael Bennett", or "Kirkland resident Michael Bennett". The guy is always a Seahawk. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, he is "Seahawk Michael Bennett".
I understand disagreeing with the WAY he's protesting. But, saying he shouldn't do it "on company time" makes no sense.
I get Doug Baldwin's point. However, I think most of the fans doing that are just drunk or inconsiderate for lack of a better word. They're not wandering, not taking hats off, etc. to make some kind of statement, and no one is going to point a camera at them and broadcast it to millions of people.
I agree that they have the right to make their point. But, just like people when people quit buying the Dixie Chicks records, there may be a consequence that hits them in the wallet.
That game is the only one that has ever caused me to leave early. I say that without remorse, shame or guilt. I purchased a block of about 6 seats for myself and friends. We left at halftime to the amusement of a Hawaii alumnus we met on the way out. Just could not watch any more without alcoholic support. Watched the rest of the game in one of the local bars. Cannot recall how the second half went except that it was less painful.That Hawaii game was my official breaking point with Wulff.
How would you suggest he protest?
the outrage some people have over this is absurd, I've asked people that get worked up over this if they stand for the anthem when they watch a game at home, none do, but none of them can explain the difference, which I contend does not exist.
America hater!I'll go one further, I bet anyone watching the game on DVR fast forwards right through the anthem. I know I usually do. Is that disrespectful?