Slow news day, sorry.
Feel free to discuss the +/- of sitting during the anthem though since Mike Bennett has made it an issue again.
Two Cougars players to sit during national anthem
- Thread starter BleedCrimsonandGray
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Slow news day, sorry.
Feel free to discuss the +/- of sitting during the anthem though since Mike Bennett has made it an issue again.
I find the outrage over the anthem to be amusing, considering there's a good number of people to take the anthem as an opportunity to run to the restroom or go wait in line for a beer anyway.
The take I find most irritating is those who say, "I watch sports to escape reality. I don't need players bringing politics into my sports." As if the players should be mindless sports robots only here to entertain you. "Just shut up and entertain me, athlete. I don't care what you think, just hit the quarterback so I can be happy for 30 seconds."
The take I find most irritating is those who say, "I watch sports to escape reality. I don't need players bringing politics into my sports." As if the players should be mindless sports robots only here to entertain you. "Just shut up and entertain me, athlete. I don't care what you think, just hit the quarterback so I can be happy for 30 seconds."
Don't think there isn't just as much outrage over those that wander or DON'T TAKE THEIR FREAKING HATS OFF, at least for some. Just hasn't/doesn't hit the news cycle.
They have every right to do this. And while I don't agree with their vehicle of message, I respect them. I DO get their message. I do believe that because this has hit the news cycle so much, the point they are trying to make is being lost in the clutter. So really... there isn't a point. Those that are adamantly against this, will not see the message they are trying to convey. Those that that are for it... are already for it. This message is lost. Makes them feel good, so I guess there's that.
I don't care about this that much, but:
- The preferences and desires of fans are important. The butts in the seats at games, and on couches watching these guys play, are what allow these guys to be multimillionaires instead of plying their trade for peanuts like old-school pro athletes. They may not be determinative in all cases, and the average NFL fan apparently is a knuckle-dragger, but it matters what they think about the product they are consuming, including how the athletes act.
- In my profession (and, I'd venture, most others), the employees aren't able to make whatever kind of "statement" they want to potential clients, customers, or whatever. I don't get to wear a "Never Trump" (or "All Lives Matter," etc.) button when I meet with clients at my firm who are going to pay the firm millions of dollars, nor do McDonald's workers or anyone else. Is there reason to believe the athletes are particularly well-informed or experts on these topics? Why do athletes get to make statements, such that any pushback on that ability, or fans reacting in any given way to the views or actions of a particular player, is seen as inappropriate?
I'm happy to see the hysterics surrounding this topic haven't trickled onto this forum. What I see most often are the two strawman arguments of: "If you don't stand you hate America" and "If you don't support sitting, you hate black people." Of course both of these are absurd.
I don't think its appropriate to pursue personal endeavors on company time or property - he could easily call a press conference and make the same statements. I do feel the message is wasted as well, as most of the discussion revolves around the act and not the purpose for the act.
Finally, I don't think raising awareness is what this country needs - we are smacked in the face daily by the racial tensions (as they exist) by every news and social media outlet available. I find that calls to action without an actual plan for action are hollow and, to me, reek of attention seeking behavior (not that Bennett does that... at all.)
While Bennett does do a lot of admirable charity work in Seattle, I find this gesture to be well meaning but poorly thought out. Stomping your feet and screaming "someone should do something" is hardly helpful in the grand scope of things. I know that is harsh and he's well meaning, but we need more from leaders in the black (and white) community, and if he's going to put himself out there he needs to accept the responsibility.
Holding a sign, outside a Mariners game would work pretty effectively, I would think.
Or get a vendor license and get a booth outside a Seahawk game, have some people in it giving out paperwork, brochures, bumper stickers, whatever for the cause.
Social media can prove to be effective, if used properly.
I can think of a million ways. The same ways you or I would have to, actually.
I do not mind the spotlight on the issue as a consequence of their protest. In fact I rather appreciate it. They are putting their fame to good usage rather than just enjoying the rewards of their achievements while ignoring problems in their original home prior to their fame. What I do object to is their use of the national anthem. The national anthem represents all of us. I feel as if I were being classified in the same category as the white supremist loonies and trigger happy police officers. I was fine with the flag being attacked during the VietNam War as that was a national government policy at the time. Gunning down unarmed people is not a policy of the national government or any local one. I regard the usage of the national anthem as too inclusive. That said, the protest has raised a good debate and my annoyance is a small price to pay on my part.
man2 has some good suggestions. There are other ways to expose the problem short of lumping the rest of us with the Klan.
man2 has some good suggestions. There are other ways to expose the problem short of lumping the rest of us with the Klan.
Here's the problem though, being a famous athlete, he's never "off company time". Anything Bennett does will be reported as "Seahawks lineman Michael Bennett", not "Louisianna native Michael Bennett", or "Kirkland resident Michael Bennett". The guy is always a Seahawk. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, he is "Seahawk Michael Bennett".
I understand disagreeing with the WAY he's protesting. But, saying he shouldn't do it "on company time" makes no sense.
To put it bluntly, because athletes are more irreplaceable than most of us are at our jobs. They get paid more, and their employers tolerate what they do more because they do their job better than 99.9% of rest of the population.
That doesn't mean they're well informed, but it is why they have a platform for their message that none of us have.
My position has always been that too often, people worry about what others are doing, even when it does no harm to others. One guy kneeling or sitting on the sideline to bring awareness to his cause does no real harm to anyone. I don't like it when people protest in ways that negatively impact other people regardless of their cause. I'm not a fan of liberals blocking an intersection to protect some critter in the wilderness and I don't like right wing folks that use the threat of physical violence to forward their causes. I'm opposed to anyone whose cause involves the reduction of opportunity and choice for people. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't harming someone or condoning something that causes harm......protest away.
That's fair. That said, there are many world-class performers in a number of fields, including those of considerable fame (e.g., CEOs, entertainers, business moguls, etc.) who face consequences if they take a controversial stand, violate the policies or expectations of those they are accountable to, or if it's otherwise bad for business.
To this, one might point to entertainers, who frequently take well-known stands on political or social issues, as evidence that athletes should be able to do the same thing. That's fair, but I have two counters.
First, it's not inconsistent with my view (which is that the league can regulate player conduct, but that to the extent player protests are within the boundaries of permitted conduct but they face market consequences for that, such as a loss of endorsements, a hard time getting hired, or fans booing them, etc., that's on them). If Mel Gibson is far-right, a fundamentalist Christian, or whatever he is, and as a result faces people boycotting his films, studios not wanting to hire him, or whatever, he has to face the consequences of that. The difference is that Hollywood is very left-leaning overall and most aspects of "popular" culture and the media are at the very least somewhat left-leaning, whereas the NFL fanbase is not, at least in the aggregate (there certainly are many fans across the political spectrum, but just watch a football telecast and count the number of ads for pickup trucks, cheap beer, etc.). In other words, Gibson gets blackballed in Hollywood, someone like Kaepernick gets blackballed in the NFL.
Second, I think there's an argument to be made that sports are "special" in the sense that, as you said you personally don't like, someone should be able to contend that it should be a realm relatively free of politics, moral crusades, and whatever. Sports are supposed to unite us all, with people of various backgrounds coming together. They also allow us to connect across generations ... a kid in Boston can talk to his grandpa about the Red Sox or great teams 40 years ago, and it's at least somewhat like the game today. Sports events are a huge deal in many cities, with a football game or a playoff run pretty much taking over most cities. In these ways, sports are more "important" than Hollywood. If we have politics and divisive social stuff getting in the way of all those positive aspects of sports, to me that's a bigger affront than, say, some actor whose politics I disagree with starring in a movie. If I don't want to see the movie, who cares? But if the QB on my local sports team (for example) is a very divisive political figure, taking "stands" on the field of play, and especially with something that's important for reasons that many have already discussed (the national anthem), I think there are stronger grounds to be opposed to that.
(But again, in all seriousness, I'm not that opposed to it. I'm not "outraged" by the national anthem stands or anything, and I don't want to be lumped in with those who are, nor with those who "oppose" the causes that someone like Michael Bennett is for. Not saying that's me. Just pointing out some reasons why at least some of the opposition to these athletes sitting during the national anthem strikes me as reasonable, even if another portion of it is just good old 'MERICA! sentiment.)
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Just out of curiosity how many people do you think he or someone in his organization reach by holding a sign ? Maybe 70k if everything went perfect? On tv sitting? My guess 15 million plus . Sure seems like holding a sign is high schoolish
Its during a game, at c-link.
Before the game, after, outside of the locker room... all those things would be considered "not on work time" imho. That being said, if Paul Allen doesn't care I don't care.
Where do you come down on the 1980 Olympic boycott or barring South Africa from the Olympics? Sports has always been used for political purposes beyond individual athletes mostly without the consent of the athletes.
I get Doug Baldwin's point. However, I think most of the fans doing that are just drunk or inconsiderate for lack of a better word. They're not wandering, not taking hats off, etc. to make some kind of statement, and no one is going to point a camera at them and broadcast it to millions of people.
I agree that they have the right to make their point. But, just like people when people quit buying the Dixie Chicks records, there may be a consequence that hits them in the wallet.
He still represents the Seahawks before and after the game, in or outside of the locker room. These guys are literally never "off the clock".
So, how is it different if he delivers his message minutes before a game, or on Wednesday afternoon?
This guy may have been the most rational fan in the Clink if it was at the game that I am thinking of. We were getting our asses kicked in a driving rain. A game without any redeeming value. Get hammered and eat popcorn was one of the few remaining options. He made a statement that any true Coug would understand and support.
That was the Halliday tantrum game, where he followed the tantrum up with 3 picks in a row.
Oh, well then. It was the horrible game in Seattle. That should clear it up.
I think this was the game in which he was injured (which, again, doesn't narrow it down to one game). The game I think of as "the" Halliday tantrum game was against Oregon State. The last pick, in particular, he just threw up for grabs, seemingly without giving a damn at that point.
I'm trying to recall how many lousy Seattle games I attended, it its somewhere around 3 or 4. Maybe 5. So I might have them confused.
Obviously not the Hawaii game. I was at the OSU/ 3 pick tantrum game for sure - I thought that was which game popcorn guy was from.
A quick google search reveals that it was the Furd game that made popcorn guy famous. Not sure if I was at that one or not.
Ah, so many horrible games back then to choose from. The Popcorn Guy game was in Seattle in a monsoon (and, as I recall, nationally televised on ESPN), and Halliday was injured, with Apodaca having to play about half of the game. Apodaca wasn't brutally terrible, but his performance quickly crushed the hopes of those who saw him as the next big thing. Apodaca was crushed a couple times himself after Halliday was knocked out of the game, in fact, and it looked like they might need to burn Bruggman's redshirt (again, I recall him warming up on the sideline). The game was just an abject disaster.
Slow news day, sorry.
Feel free to discuss the +/- of sitting during the anthem though since Mike Bennett has made it an issue again.
it would be their right to do so and it would be the right of donors, season ticket holders and fans who may find it offensive to choose not to support a program who supports or endorses it. I guess we will see how it plays out.
Was that the game where Halliday was broken in half and Bender came in and was even worse?
I think we got up until a suite that game. Only reason I bothered staying.
That Hawaii game was my official breaking point with Wulff.
First, I never said that was the best option. I actually said there are many options. You refused to look beyond the simplistic so I offered the immediate options that came to mind. BUT... You don't think holding a sign (STILL... not saying that's the best option) wouldn't get a little TV time? Pulease.
Especially if he frames his discontent with, "I have nothing against how others express themselves but I thought this would be a great way for people to be able to come up to me, have conversation, debate and learn first hand how I feel and why I'm doing this. Others have decided to take a knee or sit during the anthem and I respect all of them. I felt this way is still a way to get the message out there and in my personal view, be respectful." TV would EAT. THAT. UP. ESPN would be all over it. Local/regional would be scheduling interviews, etc. A millionaire and lineman from the Seahawks, picketing a Mariners game would be a hell of a story.
PR 101. Bennett has said as much himself. He wishes others would come out. But they don't want the backlash. WELL... do something that won't create backlash and still get the message out. Not rocket science. IMHO, part of this issue is everyone in our world is looking for "shock value". Well, there's downside to that. This is a good example.
Way to oversell your idea. ESPN would NOT eat that up. If anything, it might make the front page of the Times for like a day. Sitting for the anthem is a lead story for months.
He is doing it before the game. It is his time. Company time starts at kickoff when you really think about this.
And the Dixie Chicks said they would do it again and have no regrets. The point of Baldwin is also that many people could not care less about the national anthem before the game.
Personally, I have long thought they should get rid of it at sporting events. It is the only employment that I can think of that plays the anthem before you start work. If it were really that important, it would be played before all of us start work during the day.
That game is the only one that has ever caused me to leave early. I say that without remorse, shame or guilt. I purchased a block of about 6 seats for myself and friends. We left at halftime to the amusement of a Hawaii alumnus we met on the way out. Just could not watch any more without alcoholic support. Watched the rest of the game in one of the local bars. Cannot recall how the second half went except that it was less painful.
the outrage some people have over this is absurd, I've asked people that get worked up over this if they stand for the anthem when they watch a game at home, none do, but none of them can explain the difference, which I contend does not exist.
I'll go one further, I bet anyone watching the game on DVR fast forwards right through the anthem. I know I usually do. Is that disrespectful?
I respect everyone's right to speech/protest. However, we also have to show respect to our service men/women who have fought for these rights. When you sit for the anthem to me that is disrespectful to those who have lost their lives and those that are still fighting for our freedom. When Malcom Jenkins of Phil Eagles, stood and raised his arm, I can abide by his actions as he stood for the anthem and he also made his statement.
Sports is not a 12 month ordeal. If a sports personality person feels outraged by what has happened during their off season they should get organized and start dialogue within the communities. Do not tweet and do nothing. What ever happened to communicating with each other in this country? Twitter, text, etc
has taken over our values of common core debate.
Sports is not a 12 month ordeal. If a sports personality person feels outraged by what has happened during their off season they should get organized and start dialogue within the communities. Do not tweet and do nothing. What ever happened to communicating with each other in this country? Twitter, text, etc
has taken over our values of common core debate.
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