Where are we?

[CougEd]

First, Leach doesn't deserve to be even in the conversation of being fired. He should be here as long as he is passionate about coaching. Because of the offense he runs and his overall philosophy and talent acquisition there may be a ceiling and a floor to his success.

It is pretty clear two defensive coaches have the air raid figured out. I am not sure if Leach has made adjustments or not, and if he is simply counting on reps and working on the next play, but Cal and UW know how to defend it and recruit the right kids to execute the game plan.

With our coaching losses and our talent attrition, are we at the same level we were at in 2013, below or above?

Dlineman are a tough one for WSU to come by. They are like gold. Even in the worse of years Price was able to find at least one good corner if not two. Burns, Hunter, Moronkola, Trufant etc. Walden had a couple of decent corners in his time. Why has that proven so hard to get even with the 'other recruiters" we have had during the Leach years. There are more 5 10 guys out there than 6 5 lineman, so I would think we would be better on the back end than we are.

We have shown we can get 5 olineman in the program that can stay healthy and be productive, although Ryan needs to move back to guard.

We can get good rb's and productive receivers. Same with Qb's. They need to change things up on the defensive side of the ball, and treat it like an it isn't an after thought.

 

[CougPatrol]

Unlike a lot of people on here, I don't think we're too far off from where we've been the past few years. Yes it's been a down year, and yes we're more deficient in some areas compared to the past, but from a macro perspective, the biggest difference is that we're not winning the close games this season.

Last season, we pulled out close wins against Utah, Stanford, Cal, and Iowa State, where the outcomes could have easily gone the other way. Same thing in 2017, where we beat Boise State in 3OT, USC by 3, Stanford by 3, and Utah by 8. This season, the shoe's been on the other foot. We should have beaten UCLA, and could have beaten ASU, Oregon, and Cal. We're just a few plays (and players) away from an 8 win season.

Where are we? I think we're pretty close to where most Mike Leach teams have been historically. We've got a chance to beat Stanford this weekend and be at 5-5 heading into our final 2 games. If we finish the season 6-6, is it really *THAT* much of a deviation from where we've been? Come on, last years team was fun, but we weren't that far away from being 8-5.

Looking ahead to next season, assuming Leach sticks around of course, I see the pattern continuing. We get Utah State, Houston, and Idaho to open the season, followed by a P12 schedule that features 5 home games. Oregon will be rebuilding. Utah will be rebuilding. ASU at home isn't daunting. Cal and Stanford won't be expected to blow us out of the water. Colorado....

It'll come down to solidifying the defensive coaching staff, settling on a QB (which I don't get nervous about with Leach), improving on the offensive line (which I think we will), and showing growth on defense, which I also think is possible.

This year's been a bummer, but it sure as Hell isn't panic time. The program is in good shape, and if Leach returns, he'll be motivated to right the ship, and I wouldn't bet against him.

 

[froropmkr72]

Unlike a lot of people on here, I don't think we're too far off from where we've been the past few years. Yes it's been a down year, and yes we're more deficient in some areas compared to the past, but from a macro perspective, the biggest difference is that we're not winning the close games this season.

Last season, we pulled out close wins against Utah, Stanford, Cal, and Iowa State, where the outcomes could have easily gone the other way. Same thing in 2017, where we beat Boise State in 3OT, USC by 3, Stanford by 3, and Utah by 8. This season, the shoe's been on the other foot. We should have beaten UCLA, and could have beaten ASU, Oregon, and Cal. We're just a few plays (and players) away from an 8 win season.

Where are we? I think we're pretty close to where most Mike Leach teams have been historically. We've got a chance to beat Stanford this weekend and be at 5-5 heading into our final 2 games. If we finish the season 6-6, is it really *THAT* much of a deviation from where we've been? Come on, last years team was fun, but we weren't that far away from being 8-5.

Looking ahead to next season, assuming Leach sticks around of course, I see the pattern continuing. We get Utah State, Houston, and Idaho to open the season, followed by a P12 schedule that features 5 home games. Oregon will be rebuilding. Utah will be rebuilding. ASU at home isn't daunting. Cal and Stanford won't be expected to blow us out of the water. Colorado....

It'll come down to solidifying the defensive coaching staff, settling on a QB (which I don't get nervous about with Leach), improving on the offensive line (which I think we will), and showing growth on defense, which I also think is possible.

This year's been a bummer, but it sure as Hell isn't panic time. The program is in good shape, and if Leach returns, he'll be motivated to right the ship, and I wouldn't bet against him.

Starting the season against Utah State and Houston is much better than the two teams we started against this year. Everyone looked great on defense against really, really bad competition and that does 0 for developing a squad and working on weaknesses. I don't even like Idaho on the schedule....rather have Weber State or a well coached team. As far as the defense is concerned...things can only get better with some new energy and clear direction. Ya study football for a few decades and there's no doubt about the fine line between a win or a loss. We should of beat SC last year as well. Earlier in last year's season I was still waiting for that collapse on defense given the lack of talent.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Unlike a lot of people on here, I don't think we're too far off from where we've been the past few years. Yes it's been a down year, and yes we're more deficient in some areas compared to the past, but from a macro perspective, the biggest difference is that we're not winning the close games this season.

Last season, we pulled out close wins against Utah, Stanford, Cal, and Iowa State, where the outcomes could have easily gone the other way. Same thing in 2017, where we beat Boise State in 3OT, USC by 3, Stanford by 3, and Utah by 8. This season, the shoe's been on the other foot. We should have beaten UCLA, and could have beaten ASU, Oregon, and Cal. We're just a few plays (and players) away from an 8 win season.

Where are we? I think we're pretty close to where most Mike Leach teams have been historically. We've got a chance to beat Stanford this weekend and be at 5-5 heading into our final 2 games. If we finish the season 6-6, is it really *THAT* much of a deviation from where we've been? Come on, last years team was fun, but we weren't that far away from being 8-5.

Looking ahead to next season, assuming Leach sticks around of course, I see the pattern continuing. We get Utah State, Houston, and Idaho to open the season, followed by a P12 schedule that features 5 home games. Oregon will be rebuilding. Utah will be rebuilding. ASU at home isn't daunting. Cal and Stanford won't be expected to blow us out of the water. Colorado....

It'll come down to solidifying the defensive coaching staff, settling on a QB (which I don't get nervous about with Leach), improving on the offensive line (which I think we will), and showing growth on defense, which I also think is possible.

This year's been a bummer, but it sure as Hell isn't panic time. The program is in good shape, and if Leach returns, he'll be motivated to right the ship, and I wouldn't bet against him.

I like everything about this post. That's all I have to say about that

 

[CougEd]

Not sure where you're at. The rest of us are on earth.

And quit with the revisionist history. Did you forget that Price went through a cycle where the team had would win 3 or 4 games for two or three years before breaking out? That's because he had lots of recruiting misses. You want to bitch about Leach "missing on corners" great. That's so meaningful. Leach has been recruiting balanced classes, and if you actually bother to enlighten yourself, which I know is a huge ask, you could look at all the DBs Leach has recruited. There have been a lot. The position is not getting short changed, so you can quit that lie. While you're at it, quit using apostrophes for plural.

Oh the grammar police. Worry about your last post in the Leach thread that was deleted.

Did I say they didn't recruit numbers at CB. I said they have not come close to getting the level of player Price did. So there is no LIE. You do get the difference between a lie and misstatement of information, which wasn't the case here. Please show me a corner that has been drafted like Hunter, Trufant, Paymah, Brian Walker, Morokola? Make sure you put this in your computer head, I didn't say they didn't recruit the, they haven't recruited it well.

 

[cougarhawk1]

 

[79COUG]

We have talent in enough, not all, areas to contend for a league title every year.
We are deficient in two areas...
Assistant coaches and player attitude from the neck up (leadership).
In my opinion, this is a leaderless team, player wise.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I might look at it a bit differently than some of you.

CML's offensive philosophy is pretty simple. If we execute at a high enough level, we win and the Air Raid is extremely difficult to defend. This offense is the most execution-critical of any college offense today. The over/under bar for execution success is fairly high. And it is not just QB completion percentage, as some seem to think. The choices that lead to the pass that is completed is important. We have to spread it around, because too many low production short passes don't count as highly as some of the more difficult options. We have to have a mix. RB touches are always a critical element, though the conversation about how much should be a running play vs how much is a passing play depends a lot on the D that the other team decides to use, as well as our personnel. Long story short, we need to execute at a pretty high level; generally higher than our opponent; or we have some handicaps. The fact that execution becomes a bit more difficult in a more tightly packed area explains many of the Red Zone difficulties.

Recognize that execution is a full game thing, not portions of games. It takes focus on the job to be done. Blow the focus and you fail to execute. Not for a whole game, but enough to waste chunks of the game when we should be achieving the upper hand. And stupid penalties are a part of execution, whether they are false starts, stupid personal fouls or mouthy staff that have been frustrated out of their gourd by crappy officiating.

If our O execution is not as good as our opponent, then we need help from the D. Last year's takeaway ratio was a significant part of our success, as well as our ability to get 3rd and long stops to cut drives short. CML leaves much of the D to his coordinator. Clearly, that has been an issue this year. He will get that squared away for next year if his history is any guide.

The team knows the execution expectations and frankly, they have not measured up to their own standards. They admit it; it is obvious; not a lot to discuss there. We have three games left to put it together for an entire game. If we do, we can beat the last three teams. If we don't, then we are carrying additional weight on the climb.

I frankly don't know if we can focus for an entire game. If so, it has not been obvious. At this point in the season the team needs to do it whether there are obvious leaders, or not. It is a team sport, and the whole team has to show up ready to play.

 

[dgibbons]

Starting the season against Utah State and Houston is much better than the two teams we started against this year. Everyone looked great on defense against really, really bad competition and that does 0 for developing a squad and working on weaknesses. I don't even like Idaho on the schedule....rather have Weber State or a well coached team. As far as the defense is concerned...things can only get better with some new energy and clear direction. Ya study football for a few decades and there's no doubt about the fine line between a win or a loss. We should of beat SC last year as well. Earlier in last year's season I was still waiting for that collapse on defense given the lack of talent.

I recall there being a fair amount of concern about the defense in the first two games.

 

[dgibbons]

Oh the grammar police. Worry about your last post in the Leach thread that was deleted.

Did I say they didn't recruit numbers at CB. I said they have not come close to getting the level of player Price did. So there is no LIE. You do get the difference between a lie and misstatement of information, which wasn't the case here. Please show me a corner that has been drafted like Hunter, Trufant, Paymah, Brian Walker, Morokola? Make sure you put this in your computer head, I didn't say they didn't recruit the, they haven't recruited it well.

Show me the OLs that Price put into the league like Leach is doing. Show me the safeties.

Only you can remove your own head from your sphincter.

 

[CougEd]

Show me the OLs that Price put into the league like Leach is doing. Show me the safeties.

Only you can remove you’re own head from your sphincter.

Are you saying Leach and Price should have the same results and expectations?

 

[CougPatrol]

Are you saying Leach and Price should have teh same results and expectations?

different eras. It’s a silly comparison.

 

[dgibbons]

Are you saying Leach and Price should have teh same results and expectations?

You’re making the comparison. What are you saying?

 

[dgibbons]

different eras. It’s a silly comparison.

That and Price took a team that was coming off a bowl straight downhill for three years. Leach took over after the worst coach in program history.

 

[CougPatrol]

That and Price took a team that was coming off a bowl straight downhill for three years. Leach took over after the worst coach in program history.

The bigger issue IMO is that not everyone in the P12 was fully committed to their football programs during the Price era.

 

[kayak15]

First, Leach doesn't deserve to be even in the conversation of being fired. He should be here as long as he is passionate about coaching. Because of the offense he runs and his overall philosophy and talent acquisition there may be a ceiling and a floor to his success.

It is pretty clear two defensive coaches have the air raid figured out. I am not sure if Leach has made adjustments or not, and if he is simply counting on reps and working on the next play, but Cal and UW know how to defend it and recruit the right kids to execute the game plan.

With our coaching losses and our talent attrition, are we at the same level we were at in 2013, below or above?

Dlineman are a tough one for WSU to come by. They are like gold. Even in the worse of years Price was able to find at least one good corner if not two. Burns, Hunter, Moronkola, Trufant etc. Walden had a couple of decent corners in his time. Why has that proven so hard to get even with the 'other recruiters" we have had during the Leach years. There are more 5 10 guys out there than 6 5 lineman, so I would think we would be better on the back end than we are.

We have shown we can get 5 olineman in the program that can stay healthy and be productive, although Ryan needs to move back to guard.

We can get good rb's and productive receivers. Same with Qb's. They need to change things up on the defensive side of the ball, and treat it like an it isn't an after thought.

Good to see that I am not the only one who wants Liam returned to a guard spot. The second thing I want to see this offseason is for CML to hire the best DC he can and turn over the defense to him. 'Here, it's your responsibility. Keep the coaches you want or replace them all with ones of your choosing. It's up to you. I'll leave you alone and concentrate on the offense.'

 

[CougEd]

And Theo Lawsons article on WSU DB's and how they have gotten INJURED, GOTTEN INTO TROUBLE, TRANSFERED, GONE PRO, ETC, during Leach's Tenure, TOTALLY, COMPLETELY BACKS UP WHAT YOUR SAYING HERE.

But ED and many others here are KNEE JERKING, forgeting, replacing that with REVISIONIST history.

What knee jerk reaction have I had? That they have to do a better job in recruiting? Have I said much about teh record. I expected this to happen last year based on recruiting the past 4 years and the attrition. Did I once Leach wouldn't get things back on track? And on track means playing good football, like they did against Oregon.

 

[CougEd]

Good to see that I am not the only one who wants Liam returned to a guard spot. The second thing I want to see this offseason is for CML to hire the best DC he can and turn over the defense to him. 'Here, it's your responsibility. Keep the coaches you want or replace them all with ones of your choosing. It's up to you. I'll leave you alone and concentrate on the offense.'

I was at a district soccer game listening to the radio, it was the second third down in 4th quarter when a TD would have one the game and we needed a stop. I said here comes the inside blitz again, and Baldwin called the perfect play because he knew it was coming.

Maybe one of the two DC's will grow into the position...one can hope.

 

[CougEd]

That and Price took a team that was coming off a bowl straight downhill for three years. Leach took over after the worst coach in program history.

Yeah, and Price built it back up, and I thought and think that is where we should be now. Not at 11 win season, but a season where our defense is so bad ASU out up 38 points on us and their previous high was 21, or UCLA which was horrible puts up 60 plus, or Cal with a 3rd string QB gashes us for 20 plus.

If anything that is what is deflating, we aren't playing bad defensive football, we are near 2010 and 2011 numbers.

 

[CougEd]

You’re making the comparison. What are you saying?

No I am saying Price was able to get quality corners and he isn't in the same league as leach. It means Leach should be able to get those same quality defensive backs.

 

[CougEd]

Show me the OLs that Price put into the league like Leach is doing. Show me the safeties.

Only you can remove your own head from your sphincter.

I can't show you the lineman. It didn't happen. But the lineman can't stop a 3rd and nine can they? If you really believe we are getting the same quality Db's we got during the Price era then there is nothing I can say to you other than they are not. And DB is the easiest position to recruit. If I had could go on that roster right now, I could pick a player who has the footwork to be a top flight CB. But CB is not the same priority as other positions.

 

[CougEd]

We have talent in enough, not all, areas to contend for a league title every year.
We are deficient in two areas...
Assistant coaches and player attitude from the neck up (leadership).
In my opinion, this is a leaderless team, player wise.

Who has shown leadership QB's at QB, Gubrud on another level, or Gordon in JC ball? And maybe the answer is neither.

All I know if Gordon moves, has to slide to the right or left trouble is about to come our way. Maybe with the oline troubles we have had a more qb would be of help.

 

[mikalalas]

No I am saying Price was able to get quality corners and he isn't in the same league as leach. It means Leach should be able to get those same quality defensive backs.

And He Leach did get those HIGH QUALITY DB'S THAT PRICE GOT, ITS JUST THAT AS THEO LAWSON SAID THOSE HIGH QUALITY DB'S GOT:

1. INJURED

2. GOT IN TROUBLE(AKA arrested, student conduct board, suspended, kicked off team, etc)

3. TRANSFERED OUT.

4. WENT PRO.

5. LEFT EARLY

6. DID NOT PAN OUT

7. ETC.

THEO LAWSON NAMED THE PLAYERS AS EXAMPLES.

THEO SAID THAT THE DB'S WERE THE RR 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, TYPE OF HIGHER ENDED 3 STARS THAT HAVE HIGH UPSIDE, POTENTIAL, HAD GOOD OFFERS, ETC, AS HS, TRANSFERS, ETC.

HE ALSO POINTED OUT EXAMPLES LIKE JALEN THOMPSON.

HE THEO SAID THAT IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE INJURIES, GETTING IN TROUBLE, TRANSFERING OUT, ETC, THAT WSU WOULD HAVE HAD A SECONDARY, DB's, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD, DEEP, LIKE WSU'S WR CORP.

CAPS ADDED TO ADD EMPHASIS, TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND, SINCE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, ETC.

 

[mikalalas]

I can't show you the lineman. It didn't happen. But the lineman can't stop a 3rd and nine can they? If you really believe we are getting the same quality Db's we got during the Price era then there is nothing I can say to you other than they are not. And DB is the easiest position to recruit. If I had could go on that roster right now, I could pick a player who has the footwork to be a top flight CB. But CB is not the same priority as other positions.

JALEN THOMPSON: NFL

BUCHANON: NFL

1,2 OTHER SAFETIES, DB'S that borderline NFL.

Leach's Safeties, have been either Almost as good, equal to, just barely by skin of teeth better then Price's Safeties.

And for CB's, Leach has had 1 CB as borderline NFL, CFL, Arena League, XFL, etc.

While that is not as good as Price's Corners in Trufant, Jason David, etc(Pretty high standard), its good enough, if have good coaching, to be a ok, good, semi top cornerback corp, etc.

Also Habril, OR Dabrill. OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS, who is is a DB, CB, Nickel Back recruit of Leach's is, was one of the better, semi top recruits 1,2 years ago, who had a LOT of Pac 12 offers. He is, was a RR 5.6, 5.7, 5.8, highest ended 3 star to borderline 3,4 star to lowest ended 4 star, recruit, player.

Just so you know, Habril, Dabril, whatever his name, ON PAPER, is comparable ranking wise, to Price's CB recruits.

But oh no, Leach is not recruiting CB's even remotely close to as good as Price, so says you.

MORE ED REVISIONIST HISTORY.

 

[Glad Cougar]

FYI, Buchanan was a Wulff recruit.

Glad Cougar

 

[dgibbons]

No I am saying Price was able to get quality corners and he isn't in the same league as leach. It means Leach should be able to get those same quality defensive backs.

And Price failed to get OLs and safeties. What does pointing out one position mean? Different coaches, constructing different programs.

 

[dgibbons]

FYI, Buchanan was a Wulff recruit.

Glad Cougar

Who was drafted in the first round because a new staff took over to get him there.

 

[dgibbons]

I can't show you the lineman. It didn't happen. But the lineman can't stop a 3rd and nine can they? If you really believe we are getting the same quality Db's we got during the Price era then there is nothing I can say to you other than they are not. And DB is the easiest position to recruit. If I had could go on that roster right now, I could pick a player who has the footwork to be a top flight CB. But CB is not the same priority as other positions.

Ok. And what is your point? The coach that can’t recruit corners got this program to four straight bowls and the most wins in a single season.

Where were we in 1998? The same coach that was awesome at recruiting corners, because according to you that has some kind of superior meaning, had won a league championship and then looked like he couldn’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[mikalalas]

All valid points DG, but ED is not going to get it, and will continue with his revisionist history in false support of his false narrative about Leach.

And just in case Ed and others think Price is being trashed, based on what DG is saying.

Price is not being trashed. Price was a great, awesome coach at WSU.

But Leach is also a wonderful coach at WSU.

And that shouldnt knee jerk about Leach, just like there shouldnt have been knee jerks back then about Price.

And shouldnt compare Leach to Price, especially over, about the secondary, because it is as Theo Lawson has pointed out, that it is a FALSE NARRATIVE that LEACH supposedly hasnt recruited, developed, good, great Saefeties, CB, because of this and any others seasons bad secondary defense, which has mostly been because of bad assistant coach coaching, and all the reasons THEO LAWSON named.

IF MIKE PRICE'S TRUFANT, CB'S, SAFETIES, ETC, HAD BEEN INJURED, GOT IN TROUBLE, TRANSFERED, LEFT EARLY, WENT PRO, DIDNT PAN OUT, HAD BAD ATTITUDES, DIDNT WORK HARD, SMART, WERE MISCOACHED BY ASSISTANT DEFENSIVE COACHES, ETC, MIKE PRICE'S SECONDARIES, WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS CRAPPY AS LEACH'S SECONDARIES HAVE BEEN AT TIMES, IN A COUPLE, FEW, SOME SEASONS.

Comparing Leach's secondary to Price's secondaries is STUPID.

Comparing Leach to Price in order to try to supposedly show that Leach is supposedly not as good as Price or not good, is STUPID.

Knee Jerking about Leach is STUPID.

Posting a FALSE NARRATIVE AND REVISIONIST HISTORY IS STUPID.

And ED IS BEING STUPID.

NOTE I AM NOT CALLING ED STUPID.

ED IS NOT STUPID.

BUT WHAT ED IS DOING RIGHT NOW IS STUPID.

 

[CougEd]

And He Leach did get those HIGH QUALITY DB'S THAT PRICE GOT, ITS JUST THAT AS THEO LAWSON SAID THOSE HIGH QUALITY DB'S GOT:

1. INJURED

2. GOT IN TROUBLE(AKA arrested, student conduct board, suspended, kicked off team, etc)

3. TRANSFERED OUT.

4. WENT PRO.

5. LEFT EARLY

6. DID NOT PAN OUT

7. ETC.

THEO LAWSON NAMED THE PLAYERS AS EXAMPLES.

THEO SAID THAT THE DB'S WERE THE RR 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, TYPE OF HIGHER ENDED 3 STARS THAT HAVE HIGH UPSIDE, POTENTIAL, HAD GOOD OFFERS, ETC, AS HS, TRANSFERS, ETC.

HE ALSO POINTED OUT EXAMPLES LIKE JALEN THOMPSON.

HE THEO SAID THAT IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE INJURIES, GETTING IN TROUBLE, TRANSFERING OUT, ETC, THAT WSU WOULD HAVE HAD A SECONDARY, DB's, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD, DEEP, LIKE WSU'S WR CORP.

CAPS ADDED TO ADD EMPHASIS, TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND, SINCE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, ETC.

What is it you want me to understand? That the star system might be flawed? Or that crap happens?

If you want to stop a 3rd and nine it helps to have a corner that can play man. And not one that interferes on seemingly all the important plays.

If WSU is going to blitz at the end of the ASU game, they need a CB or two that can lock on to their receivers. If they choose to blitz against Cal on a 3rd and nine, they have to be able to cover. It is like having a dominant closer in baseball, makes everyone else around them better.

With all the guys we have trotted out on te field the biggest play-maker was Pippens, and he wasn't Hunter, Burns, Moronkola, Paymah, Trufant, and even Coleman when he played corner that one season.

Corner is the easiest position to spot talent. If WSU evaluated CB talent like they do WR talent we wouldn't have this discussion.

Having good cover corners it allows your defense to do so much more.

 

[CougEd]

Ok. And what is your point? The coach that can’t recruit corners got this program to four straight bowls and the most wins in a single season.

Where were we in 1998? The same coach that was awesome at recruiting corners, because according to you that has some kind of superior meaning, had won a league championship and then looked like he couldn’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

Totally agree. And if we don't go bowling because we can't stop an offense with their 3rd string QB, or we can't get off the field against Oregon, or ASU puts up 500 yards probably 200 yards more than they normally do, or UCLA puts up 60 plus.

Yeah, as a fan one can look at the macro and micro view. You think this defense is on the top 2/3's of the conference?

Doesn't mean Leach is crappy or done a bad job, but I would like him to fix the recruiting on the defensive side of the ball which I think he is totally capable of.

The superior meaning is our corner play shouldn't be holding back this defense, in any year.

 

[dgibbons]

Totally agree. And if we don't go bowling because we can't stop an offense with their 3rd string QB, or we can't get off the field against Oregon, or ASU puts up 500 yards probably 200 yards more than they normally do, or UCLA puts up 60 plus.

Yeah, as a fan one can look at the macro and micro view. You think this defense is on the top 2/3's of the conference?

Doesn't mean Leach is crappy or done a bad job, but I would like him to fix the recruiting on the defensive side of the ball which I think he is totally capable of.

The superior meaning is our corner play shouldn't be holding back this defense, in any year.

Just like OL play shouldn't be holding back the offense, as it often did under other coaches.

The CB play is not great, but it's better than the safeties and LBs have been. Makes one wonder if you actually watch this team....

 

[CougEd]

All valid points DG, but ED is not going to get it, and will continue with his revisionist history in false support of his false narrative about Leach.

And just in case Ed and others think Price is being trashed, based on what DG is saying.

Price is not being trashed. Price was a great, awesome coach at WSU.

But Leach is also a wonderful coach at WSU.

And that shouldnt knee jerk about Leach, just like there shouldnt have been knee jerks back then about Price.

And shouldnt compare Leach to Price, especially over, about the secondary, because it is as Theo Lawson has pointed out, that it is a FALSE NARRATIVE that LEACH supposedly hasnt recruited, developed, good, great Saefeties, CB, because of this and any others seasons bad secondary defense, which has mostly been because of bad assistant coach coaching, and all the reasons THEO LAWSON named.

IF MIKE PRICE'S TRUFANT, CB'S, SAFETIES, ETC, HAD BEEN INJURED, GOT IN TROUBLE, TRANSFERED, LEFT EARLY, WENT PRO, DIDNT PAN OUT, HAD BAD ATTITUDES, DIDNT WORK HARD, SMART, WERE MISCOACHED BY ASSISTANT DEFENSIVE COACHES, ETC, MIKE PRICE'S SECONDARIES, WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS CRAPPY AS LEACH'S SECONDARIES HAVE BEEN AT TIMES, IN A COUPLE, FEW, SOME SEASONS.

Comparing Leach's secondary to Price's secondaries is STUPID.

Comparing Leach to Price in order to try to supposedly show that Leach is supposedly not as good as Price or not good, is STUPID.

Knee Jerking about Leach is STUPID.

Posting a FALSE NARRATIVE AND REVISIONIST HISTORY IS STUPID.

And ED IS BEING STUPID.

NOTE I AM NOT CALLING ED STUPID.

ED IS NOT STUPID.

BUT WHAT ED IS DOING RIGHT NOW IS STUPID.

Why would anyone take it as "trashing" Price. Price struggled getting lineman into the program. In 1994 he did, and he recruited 8 olineman. But he had attrition and left him short. Caldwell didn't make it in, (he was Abe Lucas) Ricky Austin transferred, as did Rory Rosenbach. Michael Jackson a TE blew out a knee. Jon Ottenbreit got injured.

So attrition is everywhere. Then when you have attrition you start going down the JC route, and you have two years with the kids.

At some point you have to look at who is out there. Name me one corner that has suited up for WSU was 1st or 2nd team all Pac 12 caliber?

 

[CougEd]

Just like OL play shouldn't be holding back the offense, as it often did under other coaches.

The CB play is not great, but it's better than the safeties and LBs have been. Makes one wonder if you actually watch this team....

I have watched. There was a reason that Doba had a philosophy that he did. Get two big DT's, and get two corners and you can put Pat Bennett out there at LB and be successful.

 

[dgibbons]

I have watched. There was a reason that Doba had a philosophy that he did. Get two big DT's, and get two corners and you can put Pat Bennett out there at LB and be successful.

And how often did that actually come to fruition? Once every 3-4 years.

This is a reminder about revisionist history.

 

[CougEd]

And how often did that actually come to fruition? Once every 3-4 years.

This is a reminder about revisionist history.

In terms of DT's, yeah, corners seemed to always have good corner play starting late 91 when the young kids got their feet wet.

What did I revise? I said that was his philosophy, and it all came to fruition after they went to the Rose Bowl and Price had more cred.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Ed,

You're one of the most prolific posters here, so obviously you follow Cougar Football closely with the best of 'em — important district soccer games notwithstanding.

Are you sticking with your prediction earlier this season that Anthony Gordon will be drafted earlier than Gardner Minshew?

I don't keep up with the NFL all that much, so curious to hear your thoughts behind that statement.

 

[CougEd]

Ed,

You're one of the most prolific posters here, so obviously you follow Cougar Football closely with the best of 'em — important district soccer games notwithstanding.

Are you sticking with your prediction earlier this season that Anthony Gordon will be drafted earlier than Gardner Minshew?

I don't keep up with the NFL all that much, so curious to hear your thoughts behind that statement.

Yep....when you see Gordon's arm vs Minshew, who do you believe has a stronger arm?

 

[PeteTheChop]

Yep....when you see Gordon's arm vs Minshew, who do you believe has a stronger arm?

Ok thanks. Don't keep with the NFL too closely nowadays.

 

[dgibbons]

In terms of DT's, yeah, corners seemed to always have good corner play starting late 91 when the young kids got their feet wet.

What did I revise? I said that was his philosophy, and it all came to fruition after they went to the Rose Bowl and Price had more cred.

What are you revising? History. Like you are again now. You think the corner play was good in 1998, 1999 or 2000? Do you think corner play was good in 1995, 1996 or even 1997?