No, they don't, or the guys would be playing- not figuring out their AFL/post-football careers.
Offensive numbers...
- Thread starter Coug95man2
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Diminish what? The first season didn't go as planned? So what. Here is the true answer. Transitions are always tough. Learning a system takes time to adjust. What that team needed more than anything was a little confidence, they needed a win. Mike Leach wanted to set the foundation and just maybe it was a bit different than what he had to deal with before.
There is nothing to diminish. You simply have hard facts in front of you. If you asked me in 2012 the weakest unit n the team, I would have agreed with you. But after the facts come out, I can honestly say it is not as bad as I would have thought.
What facts? You're going to ignore what you saw, and thought to be true, what the coach acknowledged... because a few guys got onto PRACTICE SQUADS? Never actually a game- we talkin' about PRACTICE.
I'm going to believe what actually happened, not some mythmaking based on guys who got released from Arena Football.
For the sake of this discussion, it's that YOU were right about the OL, not Coach Leach- just look at both the practice squad guys! Oh, better go quick- one of them just got traded to Saskatchewan.
Well you discussing in a circle. Lousy players have to have some redeeming value to either get drafted or get into a camp. Withrow made it into a camp. He played. You call Wulffs players lousy even though right in your face is evidence to the contrary. And if they were lousy again the argument could be made they didn't have the coaching. See, now that everything has played out, I can take an honest look and say they weren't lousy. They didn't have injuries. Maybe the adjustment was too much to take place in one year.
And in hindsight in two different seasons two games really defined the season the remainder of the season. The CU game and the Rutgers game. If they won those games were are probably talking at least two winning seasons.
And Mike Leach in my estimation made probably three errors. He comes from the school where players are mentally tough, and they should simply overcome adversity. What the 2012 team needed more than to be rolled in 2012 was a win against CU. Is it worth getting in a tizzy about, nope. Does it make him a crappy coach or one that should be on the hot seat. Nope. The second mistake was not having experience in the slot, and playing Lintz and Galvin. They were running to spots instead of open areas. Again, this mistake clearly viewed in hindsight isn't that biig of a deal, but it did in my opinion affect the offense in a big way. But how would he know until they played the games.
The last mistake was a mistake that happens to every coach. He needed corners in 2012, thought he had them, and they bailed. But not getting those corners and getting them experienced for 2014 hurt a lot in 2014. Crap happens in recruiting.
None of this "diminishes" what Leach has done, or not done. But to continue to bag on the oline as being devoid of talent in light of what we now know is strange.
So the people in Green Bay and Atlanta wanted fullingtion and Rodgers because they needed dates for the execs daughters? Not sure the NFL works that way.
Withrow made a camp, and played- IN REAL LIVE GAMES- a decade, so you should file this argument for at least eight more years. And your continued discussion of a game from three years ago, that you "won't get into a tizzy over", while not acknowledging that the players just quit, thinking they had a win- otherwise, the Baca TD is simply inexplicable- is typical.
And yes, when I argue the line was bad in 2012, I think that coaching could be an issue. Who coached those guys for the bulk of their careers? He must have been underwhelming.
This is the reasoning that got you to "Connor Halliday, NFL QB".
It's not your best.
Have either of those guys even suited up for an NFL regular season game?
And, uhh... the people in Green Bay didn't want Fullington that bad, or they wouldn't have cut him. Same with the 49ers.
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Jake Rodgers an olineman could not have suited up yet. He just got drafted. Tuel played in the preseason. Halliday quit for whatever the reason. Fullingtion hasn't played in a regular season game. But neither has a host of Cougar lineman. But your point is noted. NFL execs feel sorry for WSU guys and put them on their roster, but they didn't with other WSU olineman. Got it.
Actually, Jeff Tuel got to START AN NFL GAME. A real, honest to goodness, NFL game.
It got him cut, and ensured that Buffalo area hobos got a paycheck by being the new backup QB so they'd NEVER EVER have to do the Tuel thing again. It'll wind up on one of those "worst starting QB ever" articles in a few years, though.
Ah...same old argument...so what you are telling me talent wise Fullington is worse than say Hannam because one guy got paid 200k plus a year to be on a 53 man roster and the other never got invited to a camp. Is that the logic? In your world that makes sense I guess.
Where is Cole Morgan right now? How about Kevin Lopina, or Steve Birnbaum or Austin Apodoca.
Cole Morgan and Kevin Lopina are high school coaches, and Apodaca is at New Mexico, right? But at least you're starting to recognize the class of QB Tuel belongs to.
Helpful hints: if you plan to do a "where are they now?", it's more interesting if the answer is something other than "oh, he's right there."
I quit reading after the part where you said Leach has done 3 times was Walden has done as it proves you don't know what you are talking about as usual.
Walden had 1 more victory than Leach has had after 3 yrs...with 3 less total games..and won 8 games in year 4.
For the stats geeks posting in this thread, those are some numbers to chew on for a while.
Ed, yes. Look at it this way. WSU center, Zach Williams, was drafted in the 7th round of the NFL draft. What other WSU center has been drafted? There may have been one, but I cannot think of another one. Yet, Williams was likely the worst center that WSU has had in decades.
Fullington started his career at Left Tackle, which is the most important position on the line. Then, each year he kept on moving to a less important position, left guard, and then right guard. He did finish up at right tackle because of an injury.
Neither is Connor Halliday, and you were SURE he would.
Keep trying, CougEd.
But try something different.
Why was he the "worse" center in history? And Fullington was never suppose to be the left tackle. You know that and I know that. Did he not start at lg and moved to tackle when Gonzales broke his arm? I think some would argue shows his versatility.
And if Williams was drafted and was the worse center ever, tell me why they drafted him. So I get this straight, Hannam > than Fullington because Fullington because one player moved around and the other did not? Or is there something more tangible than that?
It's as though it's easier to take over a 6-5 team with a senior QB about to go in the top three of the NFL Draft than it is to take over a team with no draftable QB's who took four combined years to get to six wins.
Color me shocked.
Why are you even bringing Hannam or Withrow into the "Fullington keeps getting cut" discussion?
Be an NFL QB- at least based on the multiple times you touted Leach inheriting "not one, but TWO NFL QB's". Maybe you didn't understand what you said, I guess.
Because we worked out of shotgun, and half the snaps rolled back to the QB, draft status be damned.
Oh, but you don't know if he called the correct blocking scheme, or the fact he moved the nose guard off the ball if there was a nose, or he got to the linebacker in when they played a 4-3 defense. Got it.
Then maybe Leach should have recruited another qb. Isn't that your stand by line when you kept jumping up and down about how Wulff ruined Gibson?
You do crack me up. You really do. An hour and a half ago you gave me the animal house "I am not going to let you bad mouth the United Sates of America speech and you said you weren't going to participate because of the diminishing of Mike Leach, and here it is almost two hours later you are continuing to make the case players who hopefully graduated with their degree but never got invited to a camp are more talented than people who actually have been. Now that is comical. And thanks, I needed the humor today.
Your ignorance is truly breathtaking. We need more awesome centers who can't complete the most basic function of being a center- getting the ball to his QB.
You should tell Coach Kent to only recruit guys who can't make a basic pass, or Coach Lees to bring in only pitchers who get the ball halfway to the plate.
Because he was a very good athlete for someone that is around 300lbs. In the 7th round you are not taking a player that has everything a top round pick has. 7th round picks have holes. Williams was not a good lineman, but he was a good athlete. So, Carolina took a chance that he might develop in a few years. He didn't.
Too bad Williams seldom did much of that. As athletic as Williams was, if was as good as you think he was, he would still in the NFL playing.
Instead, he was just a very good athlete that got a shot. Outstanding for him. But, unfortunately he didn't help WSU win games.
Yep...nor did a host of "other "offensive lineman. But I get it. What you are saying is they had the talent, they just didn't get the coaching. But here is a question, as a seventh rounder with holes, what holes did other lineman dating back to say 1990 that didn't get drafted in the seventh round, didn't get invited to camp, and didn't make a practice squad have?
Ummm... "As athletic as Williams was, if was as good as you think he was, he would still in the NFL playing." I said he was talented enough to get drafted. He is talented enough and did enough things in the games and the combines to get drafted.
Or Dick Bennett to recruit a kid who really couldn't shoot. Yet the player I am thinking about was really effective. And I would challenge you to go back through every game and tell me how many turnovers were created , and how many low snaps versus dribblers were really there. Good work though, for a guy who said he was leaving two hours ago, welcome back.
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