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Phillips is another bad dude. He never should have been let back onto the Nebraska team after what he did to his girlfriend. Yet, he was immensley talented and all Osborne cared about was if he could help them win the national championship, which he did.Originally posted by CougEd:
is now accused of kicking his cellmate.
I think there needs to be a discussion about at some point not making an athlete accountable simply because they are an athlete, or in some cases boys will be boys. Jeremy Stevens mother did him no favors by not making him accountable. Rick Neuheisel and Mike Holmgren didn't help the cause. Same with Tom Osborne with Lawrence Phillips.
Maybe Leach saved CJ Mizel's life by saying there is an accountability factor. He may have shown him that talent alone does not cut it in the long term with him.
But it is kind of understandable the athletes have a feeling of invincibility. People go gaga over 4 star recruit this, that player is a must have. I am sure it is intoxicating for some, and for some they find that there talent is a get out of jail free card. While the athletes are ultimately responsible, I think parents, coaches and even the fans have some part in all of this.
So, Hernandez wouldn't have killed a guy had the Patriots not drafted him?Originally posted by CougEd:
would be given chance after chance after chance. They are enabling him.
New England knew Hernadez was a problem. They knew he was hanging out with the wrong people. Yet, they drafted him, then signed him to a large contract. So the lesson Stevens and Hernadez have learned isn't "don't do the crime if you can't do th etime", but rather you can do whatever you want without consequences as long as you have talent that they have.
This post was edited on 4/16 11:56 AM by CougEd
Good point.Originally posted by Coug95man2:
I've written, I don't know how many responses and deleted all of them. This continues to turn away from sports and I see all of it sliding into the morass of politics or religion or morals. None of which I want to talk about here. Suffice it to say, I don't see how a man's choice to murder someone is anyones fault but their own. 100%. Details become individualized but regardless, at some point in an individuals life, there was a crossroads and it seems these guys chose to go down the wrong path. That's on them, not anyone else.
Stated differently, did his football ability keep him away from crime longer than if he wasn't a big time TE recruit coming out of HS?Originally posted by Fab5Coug:
Isn't that what the judicial system is for? Hernandez committed a crime, was arrested for it, put on trial, found guilty and now will spend the rest of his days in prison.
What do the New England Patriots have to do with it? Does their employing Hernandez have something to do with the crime he committed? Had NE never drafted him, and he never played a down in the NFL, would he not have killed the guy?
It may or may not. What I don't want is a team that I root for to recruit or draft a player with huge red flags. I don't care how good they are. I love the Seahawks as well. I did not like when they drafted Jeremy Stevens. If I were a team that was in position to draft Jameis Winston, I would not. I didn't want the Seahawks to sign DE Greg Hardy. I do no want the Seahawks to draft Frank Clark of Michigan.Originally posted by Coug95man2:
I've written, I don't know how many responses and deleted all of them. This continues to turn away from sports and I see all of it sliding into the morass of politics or religion or morals. None of which I want to talk about here. Suffice it to say, I don't see how a man's choice to murder someone is anyones fault but their own. 100%. Details become individualized but regardless, at some point in an individuals life, there was a crossroads and it seems these guys chose to go down the wrong path. That's on them, not anyone else.
Except for the fact that Hernandez is now doing the time for the crime, and Stevens is doing the time for his recent crimes.Originally posted by CougEd:
would be given chance after chance after chance. They are enabling him.
New England knew Hernadez was a problem. They knew he was hanging out with the wrong people. Yet, they drafted him, then signed him to a large contract. So the lesson Stevens and Hernadez have learned isn't "don't do the crime if you can't do th etime", but rather you can do whatever you want without consequences as long as you have talent that they have.
This post was edited on 4/16 11:56 AM by CougEd
I have also read that when his father unexpectedly died, something snapped within him. He never got into trouble before his dad was alive. Apparently, after he passed away is when Hernandez routinely caused trouble. However, I think what has troubled him was always inside.Originally posted by dgibbons:
Stated differently, did his football ability keep him away from crime longer than if he wasn't a big time TE recruit coming out of HS?Originally posted by Fab5Coug:
Isn't that what the judicial system is for? Hernandez committed a crime, was arrested for it, put on trial, found guilty and now will spend the rest of his days in prison.
What do the New England Patriots have to do with it? Does their employing Hernandez have something to do with the crime he committed? Had NE never drafted him, and he never played a down in the NFL, would he not have killed the guy?
I agree that after awhile the "enabling" mantra just doesn't fit. Hernandez is an adult. He used to make millions of dollars. He pissed it away. He chose to piss it away.
I'd love to see a presser where the coach/GM/owner says "We're not pleased with [Insert name of top 5 player at his position] so we're going to let his contract expire knowing that some other team will pick him up the guy will produce like a top 5 player at this position and not even bother trading him to get anything we can before we tell him goodbye."Originally posted by Fab5Coug:
So, Hernandez wouldn't have killed a guy had the Patriots not drafted him?Originally posted by CougEd:
would be given chance after chance after chance. They are enabling him.
New England knew Hernadez was a problem. They knew he was hanging out with the wrong people. Yet, they drafted him, then signed him to a large contract. So the lesson Stevens and Hernadez have learned isn't "don't do the crime if you can't do th etime", but rather you can do whatever you want without consequences as long as you have talent that they have.
This post was edited on 4/16 11:56 AM by CougEd
Because NE looked the other way on some marijuana possessions and bar fights, he figured he may just go ahead and kill a guy?
Kind of a logic leap, isn't it?
I would point out that all of that are decisions, choices, events, etc. that the player in question made or allowed to transpire the way they did. Like you said, it's on them.Originally posted by Coug95man2:
I think the idea is that, the surrounding environment has nurtured a mentality of entitlement, of "I can get away with whatever I want, because I'm so-and-so. Coach turned away back in Florida when I beat the holy crap out of my girlfriend so I can do whatever I want, even murder. I won't get caught or if I do, I'll get a slap on the wrist. Nothing big".
If they were working at Foot Locker, they wouldn't be surrounded by hundreds of thousands of rabid fans, coaches that enable them to think they are invincible, they wouldn't have women falling all over them, money being thrown at them, etc. etc. I think most here believe that this nurtures a mentality of "I'm different than the rest of society. I can get away with crap normal people can't."
We can get into it pretty heavily, but IMHO, at some point these individuals allowed this odd mentality to infiltrate their heads. Ego overtook. It seems to be some weird leap, as Ed and others believe, "Since coach looked the other way, I can do this wrong stuff." Who wants to get away with things that all of society know is wrong, like murder?! It isn't like they didn't know murder was wrong People have, or should have, control of what they allow to enter their head, their mentality, their morals. They abandon societal norms, their morals, their life ideals because of ego, that is completely on them, IMHO. I get how intoxicating fame can be. Doesn't mean the act and mentality of murder is anyone else's fault but the murderer for abandoning societal norms, morals or life ideals. They "got away" with this or that for a while but not for long. That's still on them.
Also, if it was football ability related entitlement that led to the crime, wouldn't there be a higher crime rate among NFL football players than the general population?Originally posted by Coug95man2:
I think the idea is that, the surrounding environment has nurtured a mentality of entitlement, of "I can get away with whatever I want, because I'm so-and-so. Coach turned away back in Florida when I beat the holy crap out of my girlfriend so I can do whatever I want, even murder. I won't get caught or if I do, I'll get a slap on the wrist. Nothing big".
If they were working at Foot Locker, they wouldn't be surrounded by hundreds of thousands of rabid fans, coaches that enable them to think they are invincible, they wouldn't have women falling all over them, money being thrown at them, etc. etc. I think most here believe that this nurtures a mentality of "I'm different than the rest of society. I can get away with crap normal people can't."
We can get into it pretty heavily, but IMHO, at some point these individuals allowed this odd mentality to infiltrate their heads. Ego overtook. It seems to be some weird leap, as Ed and others believe, "Since coach looked the other way, I can do this wrong stuff." Who wants to get away with things that all of society know is wrong, like murder?! It isn't like they didn't know murder was wrong People have, or should have, control of what they allow to enter their head, their mentality, their morals. They abandon societal norms, their morals, their life ideals because of ego, that is completely on them, IMHO. I get how intoxicating fame can be. Doesn't mean the act and mentality of murder is anyone else's fault but the murderer for abandoning societal norms, morals or life ideals. They "got away" with this or that for a while but not for long. That's still on them.
As if this subject hadn't veered into a politically correct/incorrect area, now you're going to inject race into this Boy this should be a fun filled thread.