Abandoning allies

[BSpike76]

Not really. My position on foreign military action is consistent with the founding fathers.

Relative to Ukraine my position has been that the killing needs to stop. That includes killing Ukrainians or killing Russians.

100 years didn’t work so you said “ hey got back further then.” Nope, not moving the goal posts at all.

Yeah and giving Putin the win will def do that. Must be nice to be so innocent.

ETA. Looks like Lutnick, bought the dip, and tariffs are going “poof” again, for a few days.

 

[Observer11]

100 years didn’t work so you said “ hey got back further then.” Nope, not moving the goal posts at all.

Yeah and giving Putin the win will def do that. Must be nice to be so innocent.

Ok. You like to wage war and have people die. Noted.

 

[Coug90]

This Victor David Hanson guy is a bullshit artist.

1. He’s crediting Trump with wiping out the Wagner group in Syria but the Wagner group was part of a pro-Assad force that attacked US commandos. It occurred out of self defense - Trump had nothing to do with it.
Also Trump was against NordStream 2 as it was competition with American companies. Purely transactional.
He then goes on to lambast other administrations which has absolutely nothing to do with his premise that Trump isn’t trying to appease Russia - of which there is a ton out there proving otherwise.

2. Trump hasn’t wildly slapped tariffs on Europe - yet but he has with Canada and Mexico - flip flopping on enacting tariffs demonstrates that he is doing it wildly with no rhyme or reason.

3. Bullying Europe? No - he’s abandoning our allies and diminishing our standing in the world. And he’s creating opportunities for China to expand their influence. All of which are national security risks.

4. Negotiating with Putin is selling out? Wrong question. Capitulating to Putin is selling out and that is what he’s doing.

5. Nothing to add to your #5 response. Who knows?

Which as Reagan can attest too works so well…it’s wild to watch how quickly this is unfolding.

 

[BSpike76]

Ok. You like to wage war and have people die. Noted.

🖕

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Which as Reagan can attest too works so well…it’s wild to watch how quickly this is unfolding.

View embedded media

Nice link. Thanks.

 

[WillieThePimp]

Not really. My position on foreign military action is consistent with the founding fathers.

Relative to Ukraine my position has been that the killing needs to stop. That includes killing Ukrainians or killing Russians.

You did too move the goalposts. You can fool yourself but you’re not fooling anybody else.

And like you give a rip about foreigners dying in foreign wars. Hilarious to see you and dgibbons repeating the same nonsensical Russian propaganda.

If Ukrainians want to fight to defend their country that is their right. Great opportunity for the US to help The Ukraine bring a pariah state to its knees and weaken it and test weapons and tactics for a piddling cost.

 

[WillieThePimp]

Awful breaking news for some:

We offered Ukraine a ceasefire and they’ve accepted. Little Marco is now off to Moscow.

View embedded media

Little Marco aka “Neville Chamberlain”.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Not really. My position on foreign military action is consistent with the founding fathers.

Relative to Ukraine my position has been that the killing needs to stop. That includes killing Ukrainians or killing Russians.

The founding fathers lived in a completely different time where we were dependent on the generosity of the French in order to win the Revolutionary War. Until the late 1800's, we were so busy assaulting and subjugating Indian lands that we had no need to get involved in world politics and we lacked the financial capacity to do so even if we wanted to. Interestingly enough, about the time that we ran out of Indian lands to conquer was the time that we started looking outside of the Continental US. We didn't maintain a large standing army until after the Korean War. Some would argue that was the time of the "Greatest Generation". So....don't forget that when we talk about the "good ol' days", it was when we already had a large standing army.

If you really believe what the founding fathers believed, we should be reducing our military budget by at least 50% (and probably 90%) instead of increasing it as the current Republican budget bill does. The founding fathers actually believed that well-trained local militias were all that was necessary to protect our country. Instead, we have a million rifles owned by idiots that don't know how to use them while we spend close to a trillion dollars per year. Trump prefers to use that military might to intimidate our neighbors and pursue colonial ambitions while actual great American presidents used our military to promote democracy around the world.

But it's cool to support communism these days as long as it's not in our country.

 

[UberCougars]

We’re promoting democracy in Ukraine?

Would those being conscripted and sent to the front agree with you? Do you fly a flag? Have a sticker on your F-150 in support of the dude actually living in the meat grinder? I’m sure he appreciates you.

Does “Saving their Democracy” include free elections? If so, who gets to run? Who decides that? When will they happen?

First I’ve heard of this.

 

[WillieThePimp]

But it's cool to support communism these days as long as it's not in our country.

What the Redcoats here support is authoritarianism - doesn’t matter if it sprang from communism, corrupted democracy, fascism, or a Monarchy; it’s an authoritarian strongman that gives them a hard-on.

 

[UberCougars]

Zelenskyy?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We’re promoting democracy in Ukraine?

Would those being conscripted and sent to the front agree with you? Do you fly a flag? Have a sticker on your F-150 in support of the dude actually living in the meat grinder? I’m sure he appreciates you.

Does “Saving their Democracy” include free elections? If so, who gets to run? Who decides that? When will they happen?

First I’ve heard of this.

Zelensky is a democratically elected president. Putin is trying to subjugate Ukraine and take away what freedom they have. They can't have elections without fear that the Russians would bomb the polling places. In a recent poll, Zelensky has a 67% approval rating courtesy of Trump treating him like trash.

That you haven't heard of this is no surprise given the cluelessness of your many responses.

 

[95coug]

Militarily neutral prior to WWII?

Strange, I thought that we sent troops to Europe in WWI, a quick review of history says that the US occupied the Philippines from 1898 to 1946 and actually fought a war from 1899 to 1902 to enforce our will upon the Filipino people. US troops intervened in Cuba, Panama, Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua between 1898 and 1935 including the long term placement of troops in those countries.

In 1898, we sent troops to China to rescue American citizens during the Boxer Rebellion. We then left the troops there to work with other countries to suppress the rebellion, even after there were no more citizens to rescue. We sent troops into Russia during the Russian civil war from 1918 to 1920 in what was called the Siberian intervention.

So yeah, other than dozens of examples to the contrary, the US never got involved militarily prior to World War II.

Yeah, but other than those things, our official stance was generally that we were neutral. We were the Isolationist Imperialists.

And really, historically we have generally tried to interfere in other countries' affairs more covertly, throwing support behind our preferred player rather than actually putting any skin in the game. Look at just about any Central or South American country, the early days of South Vietnam, Afghanistan, and a handful of African republics as an example. Historically, we've also been pretty bad at picking our friends in those scenarios.

 

[UberCougars]

Zelensky is a democratically elected president. Putin is trying to subjugate Ukraine and take away what freedom they have. They can't have elections without fear that the Russians would bomb the polling places. In a recent poll, Zelensky has a 67% approval rating courtesy of Trump treating him like trash.

That you haven't heard of this is no surprise given the cluelessness of your many responses.

Big news, if true.

Those 67%’ers gonna be pissed at Zelenskyy for signing a cease fire then. I wonder why he did it? Just as UK and France offered up boots on the ground and NATO equipment, too.

Very odd.

 

[dgibbons]

For the active minds among us, this phase of negotiations with Ukraine appears to be done. The ball is in Russia's court. We may find out whether Ukraine was the difficult party or the easier party to deal with.

 

[dgibbons]

Yeah, but other than those things, our official stance was generally that we were neutral. We were the Isolationist Imperialists.

And really, historically we have generally tried to interfere in other countries' affairs more covertly, throwing support behind our preferred player rather than actually putting any skin in the game. Look at just about any Central or South American country, the early days of South Vietnam, Afghanistan, and a handful of African republics as an example. Historically, we've also been pretty bad at picking our friends in those scenarios.

You mean the Shah, Pinochet, that slew of guys in South Vietnam, and Manuel Noriega were not chill dudes?

 

[UberCougars]

And speaking of “muh democracy”

Did you see this?

 

[Observer11]

The founding fathers lived in a completely different time where we were dependent on the generosity of the French in order to win the Revolutionary War. Until the late 1800's, we were so busy assaulting and subjugating Indian lands that we had no need to get involved in world politics and we lacked the financial capacity to do so even if we wanted to. Interestingly enough, about the time that we ran out of Indian lands to conquer was the time that we started looking outside of the Continental US. We didn't maintain a large standing army until after the Korean War. Some would argue that was the time of the "Greatest Generation". So....don't forget that when we talk about the "good ol' days", it was when we already had a large standing army.

If you really believe what the founding fathers believed, we should be reducing our military budget by at least 50% (and probably 90%) instead of increasing it as the current Republican budget bill does. The founding fathers actually believed that well-trained local militias were all that was necessary to protect our country. Instead, we have a million rifles owned by idiots that don't know how to use them while we spend close to a trillion dollars per year. Trump prefers to use that military might to intimidate our neighbors and pursue colonial ambitions while actual great American presidents used our military to promote democracy around the world.

But it's cool to support communism these days as long as it's not in our country.

I'd agree with the bolded part. Most gun owners i know are well trained so don't know about the idiots part.

The job of the military is to protect US citizens. There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates the US imposes or promotes its system of government on sovereign foreign nations.

Of course, the United States isn't a democracy. Never has been. The US is a Constitutional Republic but doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely for those justifying killing in foreign lands.

 

[UberCougars]

I'd agree with the bolded part. Most gun owners i know are well trained so don't know about the idiots part.

The job of the military is to protect US citizens. There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates the US imposes or promotes its system of government on sovereign foreign nations.

Of course, the United States isn't a democracy. Never has been. The US is a Constitutional Republic but doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely for those justifying killing in foreign lands.

But, if the United States isn’t a Democracy and never has been, how we gonna save “muh Democracy”? and how did Trump lose it?

 

[95coug]

I'd agree with the bolded part. Most gun owners i know are well trained so don't know about the idiots part.

The job of the military is to protect US citizens. There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates the US imposes or promotes its system of government on sovereign foreign nations.

Of course, the United States isn't a democracy. Never has been. The US is a Constitutional Republic but doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely for those justifying killing in foreign lands.

Speaking of guns, has anyone seen the bill that's heading to the WA senate? House democrats passed HB 1163 a few days ago, requiring that residents get a permit in order to buy guns.

I haven't read the whole bill, I assume it has little chance of meeting a Constitutional threshold.

 

[UberCougars]

Speaking of guns, has anyone seen the bill that's heading to the WA senate? House democrats passed HB 1163 a few days ago, requiring that residents get a permit in order to buy guns.

I haven't read the whole bill, I assume it has little chance of meeting a Constitutional threshold.

Probably not constitutional but that will take 10 years to get thru the courts

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Speaking of guns, has anyone seen the bill that's heading to the WA senate? House democrats passed HB 1163 a few days ago, requiring that residents get a permit in order to buy guns.

I haven't read the whole bill, I assume it has little chance of meeting a Constitutional threshold.

there are (supposedly) similar laws in several other states, so the precedent is there.

 

[UberCougars]

What are we talking here, a gun safety course? Like a boat license or motorcycle endorsement?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Go back further then.

Unless your position is the US is a war mongering state.

The founding fathers did not believe it was and should remain neutral.

Where ya been since George Washington and John Adams?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

I'd agree with the bolded part. Most gun owners i know are well trained so don't know about the idiots part.

The job of the military is to protect US citizens. There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates the US imposes or promotes its system of government on sovereign foreign nations.

Of course, the United States isn't a democracy. Never has been. The US is a Constitutional Republic but doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely for those justifying killing in foreign lands.

Of FFS. We are a representative democracy. All of our congressional members are elected in a pure democracy fashion. Same with governors. Same with city council members and state reps/senators.

It's ONLY the fcked electoral college that stands alone as outlier to that.

And there's ALOT of shit that "isn't in the constitution" that are accepted norms, practices, policies, and procedures.

You've clearly demonstrated your superficial level of understanding of our history in the posts above. Just stop. Taihtsat

 

[UberCougars]

Actually, the United States of America is officially, a Federal Constitutional Republic.

 

[95coug]

there are (supposedly) similar laws in several other states, so the precedent is there.

Fortunately, there’s also Supreme Court precedent that doesn’t allow the government to build a registry of gun owners…which is what a purchase permit system is, essentially.

And in the most literal sense, requiring a permit to buy a gun fails the “shall not be infringed” test.

What are we talking here, a gun safety course? Like a boat license or motorcycle endorsement?

Background check and fingerprinting, identical to the CPL application. Apparently, there’s already a requirement for a training course before purchasing guns, but the new bill adds a demonstration and live fire component. Also adds a training and live fire requirement to the CPL.
30 day period for review and issuance of permit, you have to present your course certificate at time of application. Purchase permit does not get you a CPL…you have to do the separate application and review and pay separate fees even though the processes are identical. It’s also only good for 5 years, and your safety course has to have been within the past 5 years for initial and for renewal.
The purchase permit does not impact the waiting periods. Even if you apply and wait 30 days for a background check for your purchase permit, you still have to wait 10 more days for the same background check before you can leave the store with a gun.

 

[Observer11]

Of FFS. We are a representative democracy. All of our congressional members are elected in a pure democracy fashion. Same with governors. Same with city council members and state reps/senators.

It's ONLY the fcked electoral college that stands alone as outlier to that.

And there's ALOT of shit that "isn't in the constitution" that are accepted norms, practices, policies, and procedures.

You've clearly demonstrated your superficial level of understanding of our history in the posts above. Just stop. Taihtsat

The US Constitution allows for amendment. If you are advocating elimination of the electoral college and authorization of the US military as a global war making police , simply call a convention of the states and make it so.