Alex Grinch
- Thread starter CrimsonDisciple
- Start date
I'm not so sure but you might be right. Meyer has a big cloud over him from now on. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Denied knowing a coach of his had domestic abuse allegations press is saying they have texts that clearly show he did know.
Apparently the woman involved, the wife of his longest standing assistant, was friends with Meyer's wife who expressed concerns and said that she would discuss it with Urban. A pretty inept attempt to "sweep it under the rug" and Meyer got caught.
I guess he would be considered an outsider when they clean house.. maybe they’ll let him take the reigns as interim head coach? No way they keep him for the long run. I predict he’s looking for a new job after this year.
Didn't a very similar situation happen at Colorado recently? Their HC (MacIntyre) didn't get fired over that mess, either. When the gal came to him about being beaten by one of his assistant coaches, he went into CYA mode with the AD and the assistant coach. He removed/blocked the woman's phone number from his cell, informed the assistant that the girlfriend was telling her story and gave the assistant the name of an attorney they used (similar to the guy who was almost on retainer for UW football misdeeds).
MacIntyre and the AD never reported the woman's complaints to the authorities (as required by law in their situation, according to the article I read) and never contacted the woman again. They did give the assistant coach additional responsibilities after their DC (Leavitt) left and discussed even elevating him to DC to replace Leavitt.
Ultimately there was an investigation and the assistant coach was charged with five counts of felony assault. MacIntyre and the AD could have been suspended or fired, for failure to report the allegations, according to their contract terms. Over a month went by without them doing any more than advising the assistant coach to "lawyer up". Instead, they were required to each donate $100K to local anti-domestic violence groups and had "letters of reprimand" placed in their files.
I re-read about this when I saw the news about Urban Meyer. I suspect there are both similarities and differences between the cases, even though they appear very similar on the surface. Both HCs knew of the alleged assaults and did practically nothing about them, even when required by law to report those allegations.
I think covering up, or ignoring, ongoing domestic violence/abuse is reprehensible.
It will be interesting to see what the actual facts are in Meyers's case? And it will be interesting to see if those facts are strong enough to warrant him facing severe consequences, or not? Will his position of power at tOSU allow him to be above the law? Or, is there some scenario where he shouldn't really be held accountable for any failure to act, himself? All interesting questions.
I just wish this sort of thing wasn't an issue at all. Domestic violence/abuse is a plague upon society...........
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It shouldnt even be up to the head coach. He coaches football. His wife should call the police and then it is an issue for the university admin. Whether the head coach knows or doesnt know shouldnt matter. You beat your wife and the President fires you. End of discussion. Football coaches are exactly that, football coaches. Why they are given so much say in handling punishment is assinine.
I agree. The fact that Title IX implications are even being discussed shows how far out of wack Title IX (and really the rules promulgated by the BOE and OCR interpretation) has got.
I understand what you are saying about the football coach being responsible for investigation and punishment.
But, in MacIntyre's case, the woman came to him because she was getting beaten up by one of his assistant coaches. A guy he was in charge of, who he had employed and known for some time. Investigation and punishment shouldn't have been up to him. But he was under a moral and legal obligation to report the allegations, once they had been made to him, so that the proper steps could be taken by the right authorities.
And, I think you can't hide under the "it's not my job" rock in certain circumstances. These sorts of allegations are serious. Sometimes deadly serious.
You are the guy's direct boss and getting paid not only to coach the team in games but to also run the program. When serious felony allegations are made, my point is that there's an obligation to follow through with reporting to the administrators and police. And I think felony type allegations warrant a suspension while the investigation is being done. Or, at the very least, once a preliminary investigation shows enough evidence to validate concerns.
Are you saying off field issues and the punishment should be out of the coaches responsibility as well ?
As a public employee, he and everyone one else who knew have a duty to report. Anyone who can be shown to have had knowledge should be fired. End of story.
It's possible as a state employee MacEntyre had some under an obligation to report a crime. I don't know what Colorado law requires. Generally speaking mandatory reporting requirements arise where the victim cannot fend for him/herself- children, elderly those with physical or cognitive impairments. A garden variety adult is not going to fall into those categories.
It is fair to ask why isn't the victim of the crime reporting the crime to the police? Football coaches and university administrators are not responsible for law enforcement. And I would go on to say that when football coaches and university administrators do place themselves in positions close to law enforcement they do a terrible job of it.
Just posting this for the good of the order.
""When somebody is crying out for help, I believe the coach, along with the coach's wife, have a duty," Courtney Smith said in the Stadium video. "They have a duty to do something to help, instead of worrying about winning games, or instead of worrying about who his mentor is and who his family is and trying to protect that; somebody's safety and the safety of their children and the environment they're in needs to be more important."
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24255877/people-meyer-knew-15-case
Interesting choice of words.
""When somebody is crying out for help, I believe the coach, along with the coach's wife, have a duty," Courtney Smith said in the Stadium video. "They have a duty to do something to help, instead of worrying about winning games, or instead of worrying about who his mentor is and who his family is and trying to protect that; somebody's safety and the safety of their children and the environment they're in needs to be more important."
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24255877/people-meyer-knew-15-case
Interesting choice of words.
Something like "have a duty" are not words people use in normal conversation. Those are words that have been planted in her mind by legal counsel.
Alright, Who on Petersen’s staff is beating their wife? Who’s next?
Sorry, Dgibbons, but I disagree. I can imagine the phrase "Leach has a duty to..." or "Chun has a duty to.." etc. occurring during a normal conversation among the posters. Wouldn't require an attorney whispering in our ears to speak as such. Maybe her attorney did put the phrase to her but not necessarily.
My only legal experience is sophomore level blaw, but I have a firm grasp of the idea of "duty". In fact, it's in my previous post, not because I heard it from a lawyer or in the radio.
"Anyone who had knowledge". Knowledge of what? That someone said something happened? What if nothing had really happened, and you go "report" the non-incident and the guy gets fired unfairly? Can he sue you for causing it?
And yeah I agree with you gibbons. Those are legal words.
So this woman (my example above is not implying that her story is false) has getting serially abused from 2009 to 2015. All the wives knew. And none of THEM called the cops? Including the abused wife? In 6 years? And she stuck with the guy? WTH? Ever hear of the words lawyer and divorce?
Speaking of duties to report, what state was it in recently (down South I think) where a guy was out in a pond drowning, calling for help and a group of teens on the shore laughed at him and recorded him as he drowned? And they got off scott-free because that state has no law that you have to help someone in trouble. They didn't even tell anyone there was a dead guy out in the pond, took a couple of days to find him.
The article I read stated MacIntryre and his AD could have been fired for not reporting the abuse. I have no idea if that's because of Colorado state law, specifically written into their employment contracts, or is standard for state employment contracts in Colorado, etc, etc. That wasn't exactly made clear in the article.
As to why go to the head football coach instead of the police? That thought crossed my mind, as well. Abusive relationships can be extremely complicated, often very warped worlds for those involved.
I am absolutely no expert on that situation.
But, I am aware of abuse victims who obviously want the abuse to stop yet stay with an abuser, regardless.
I have friends in law enforcement who say the worst calls they go on are domestic violence calls because the victim can turn on the officers when the officers try and deal with the abuser.
Maybe the victim was trying to protect her only source of financial support? Maybe she thought his boss (the HC) could get him to stop and he could keep his job, so they could survive financially?
All pure speculation.
All I am trying to say is that it's not always simple enough to say "she should have done this/that".
Well stated. But if the Coach called the cops, who's to say the wife would not have denied it? And can the University fire an employee for something he allegedly did off the job, particularly if the wife won;t support the allegation? Tangled webs for sure.
Edit: Re-read the ESPN story. So the theory is wife stayed with hubby for financial or whatever reasons. OK. They split sometime after 2015. He gets arrested for trespass (not assault) last month. Gets fired. Now wife says Urban should have done more in 2015. Like what? Fired him then? By bye financial security. Even now, he's fired and a now pariah. Bye Bye child support for your two kids.
I'm not trying to pick on the wife (much), but exactly did you want do have done in 2015? And why bring it up now? What's the point? Doesn't help you any (see pariah, bye bye support above). The Ohio cops were called 9 times over the years but no arrest in any incident. What? What?
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This isn't directed at your, more for the good of the order during the dog days of summer.
Do you think she's doing these interviews now, out of the goodness of her heart? Or do you think maybe she's interested in a settlement from Meyer and/or tOSU? Remember, the context of all this is that she apparently stuck with this guy for years of abuse. Her former husband has been fired from his high-paying job. Where is the child support and spousal support going to come from?
Separate the wife beating from what others are legally required to do if they become aware of it. No one is defending the wife beater. From what I'm gathering he was fired in July 2018. Charges were brought against him in May of 2018 (these charges apparently arise from some criminal trespass incident, it sounds like this is something different than the 2015 assault). The incident occurred in 2015.
For the sake of discussion, let's say the former Mrs. Smith's father, mother, sister or brother is a state employee in a state where they were legally required to report the abuse, but did not. What are your feelings about that?
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I agree that you have to say something. But ultimately you have no proof that he did it. You only have a complaint. So you speak up and tell the police and hand it over to them. Tell the univeristy admin too. It’s your reaponsibilty to speak up. You are a football coach. You are not an investigator.
If I were the head coach of a Power 5 team tomorrow, in my first starf meeting I am going to be direct about behavior. If you put our overpaid and get rich quick jobs at risk, youre fired. No one is covering up jack squat. We are not going to lose our zillion dollar paychecks hiding someone else’s bad decisions. You not only lose your job as a head coach but everyone gets fired too. Unfair.
If I were the head coach of a Power 5 team tomorrow, in my first starf meeting I am going to be direct about behavior. If you put our overpaid and get rich quick jobs at risk, youre fired. No one is covering up jack squat. We are not going to lose our zillion dollar paychecks hiding someone else’s bad decisions. You not only lose your job as a head coach but everyone gets fired too. Unfair.
I agree that it's not always as simple as "she should have done this/that." However, this matter no longer involves just the husband and wife. It's affecting the husband's former employer and husband's former boss.
As you indicate, sometimes people's thoughts about what someone can/should do get downright weird. Is Urban Meyer supposed to turn into a marriage counselor because Mrs. Smith sent texts to his wife? She says she's asking for help, but the holy heck is Urban Meyer supposed to do?
Does it have to be domestic violence? How about having a few beers at the Tyee glof event then driving home afterward.
Yup. I absolutely think you are on the right track.
And it's up to the University to have some sort of policy in place about felony accusations regarding their employees. If they aren't suspended immediately "until the investigation is complete", then there should be some sort of mechanism to ensure the police/proper authorities conduct a preliminary investigation and determine the relative merit of the allegations, at which time the decision about suspension could be made.
I'm in no way suggesting railroading anyone on the basis of the word from a possibly biased source. But we are talking about FELONY accusations/charges, and possible serious bodily injury up to the point of death. It has to be taken seriously......by all involved, each in a way that fits with their ultimate responsibility. There's both a legal and moral aspect to this.
How about the policy is that if the victim reports the crime to university employee, the university employee is supposed to tell the victim to report the crime to the police? In other words, the university's policy is that victims of crime resort to law enforcement and the not the university.
Title IX is about equal access and opportunity in educational programs and activities. Extending it to coaches wives is a pretty big stretch.
A football coach would absolutely be a mandatory reporter, but it depends on what information it can be showed he had. A second- or third-hand mention of abuse isn’t a report, it’s gossip. Even in that event, CYA says pass it along to the campus EEO investigators, but the requirement to do so is much more grey.
