Bat signal up

[BiggsCoug]

Well let me clarify. Mike Leach is a top 10 coach. He can win with less talent. He can plug and play QB's, in part how many reps his backups get during practice. On top of that, they throw so much the quarterbacks, all of them probably double the number of throws per season in practice than other teams.

Mike Leach did a great job at WSU. You do get I acknowledge that. I think his system fits him, and I don't disagree with people that said he has a upper middle ceiling. Nor have I hid the the fact not being competitive in the Apple Cup is frustrating. So if there is a 1-10 scale, and Wulff is a 1, where does that put Leach? Between 9.25 to 9.75. The Apple Cup gets a skewed score from the Russian judge. (and maybe the most important thing Leach did was keep his players lower leg injuries to a minimum via the beach)

But Leach isn't here anymore. We have a coach who is bringing in a new system on both sides of the ball. I do not expect the QB coach to be like Leach and plug in any qb on the roster and not miss a beat. I was very clear I don't think the talent is all that wide from 2012, but the difference is 2020 kids know what it takes to win. (but if they don't perpetuate winning this season, that soon gets lost as well)

How do we know Cooper and Cruz aren't Bruggman? We don't. What makes us think the defense that was so bad is better? And if you make the argument other teams are going to struggling breaking in QB's, that certainly will help and be a factor.

With all of that said, saying 2020 to 2023 may be a struggle because of talent and staff turnover doesn't change the fact what Leach did for the program from 2012 to current.

But that does not prevent me from looking at a .333 team in conference and saying a record setting qb is gone, the coach who could plug and play a new QB is gone, their best corner is gone, their center and LG are gone, Ryan struggled a bit at LT, and I look at a Dline that cant penetrate and can't get to the QB, and am I one to think yeah that is a 7 or 8 win team?

Add that Covid has prevented workouts, the coaches to get to know the players, the players to have spring ball, and that is problematic. Then looking to 2021, supposedly at least two of our best Dlineman are leaving, potentially 3/5's of the offensive line, our best linebacker, a few wr's, and I am cautious when I look to see where we are.

Now if you tell me there is a Herc on the line I haven't seen, or Falk or Minshew are ready to step up, I will revise my thoughts.

He has kids on offense to work with. The cupboard on offense isn't bare. Young QBs? Yes. Ya know what helps a young QB? A running game and receivers that can catch the ball. They have those. The OL has numbers. They should be able to move guys into the lineup and be fine. Can Rolo call plays at a high level? Cause Leach/AG couldn't figure out what to do with 2 DL and 9 in coverage.

Defensively, if the staff knows what they're doing and can coach football the kids move forward. The slap dix they had on the defensive staff last year did nothing to help the kids. If the defensive staff can win at TnT's this year, they'll be better. Is that saying much? Probably not. But they'll be better. Also, TnT's = Takes no Talent... lining up right, knowing your assignment, not making dumb mistakes, playing hard...

There is meat on the bone to be had. The right defensive staff could come in and get guys coached up and be a bit better. The right offensive staff could come in and call better plays and score more points. The right special teams staff could make things much easier for the defense.

Every team is going to have turnover. New guys every year. I give Leach credit for pushing money into the OL and QB positions to make sure there was enough talent there.

 

[etowncoug]

Hmmm....I think Fullington who was in the NFL, and Rodgers who was drafted might take issue with that statement. Bosch, Goetz( Leach recruited at Tech), Spitz/Forbes could be argued serviceable. Dahl (NFL) transferred in, Eckland, Middleton. They might say bigger, yes. In terms of talent and experience, not sure the gap is that huge especially considering they will be learning new technique and splits, and everything that goes with it.

Do you feel the difference in QB talent and experience, WR talent you seeing a huge difference? Dline talent (would I rather have Long, Pole, Paulo, Cooper, Laurenzi) (and didnt keep Cherry committed who started for ASU for two years)or Hobbs, Rodgers, and the crew? Is there a huge difference there?

Linebackers? Woods is special. Or can be. That group way better than Mizel, Monroe, Sua, Kaufusi? If they are in terms of talent not sure I have seen it.

Finally the secondary. Are you seeing the wide gap between the two years?

Now if you tell me there are two or three game changers I haven't seen that either were injured or redshirted, especially on the Dline, I will say in terms of talent there is a difference.

The ultimate difference is Leach taught them how to win.

This might be the most dishonest post in Ed's long history of dishonest posts.

 

[spongeworthy12]

Ed is Chinese propaganda.

I see you had Ed on the brain on a Saturday night at 8:30...and all day today. Pathetic.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I see ...

Sponge, I see your posts on Brand X from time to time.

You should post here more often.

Enjoy your passion for the Cougs!

 

[CougEd]

This might be the most dishonest post in Ed's long history of dishonest posts.

Yaki...for a guy who just started posting in 4/2018, how would you know about my "long history" of dishonest posts.

Ok, you must feel the wr, Dline, LBs, and secondary are much better, am I presuming correct?

 

[etowncoug]

Yaki...for a guy who just started posting in 4/2018, how would you know about my "long history" of dishonest posts.

Ok, you must feel the wr, Dline, LBs, and secondary are much better, am I presuming correct?

Eric, I'm not who you think I am.

 

[CougEd]

And yet you were sure Wulff had the magic eye after Brian Baucham was onboard for like a week.

Dblitherson...let me help you out. First, are you talking about Brian Bauchman of 2008, or 12 years ago? Are you talking about the BB that was finally recruited by USC and took their offer? Again, 12 years ago? wow...you must really care what I have to say which is bit strange.

One, when I said I haven't seen Rolo recruit, I mean I haven't seen him recruit. I haven't watched film of any potential recruits or verbally committed recruits.

Second, when Wulff was hired I didn't think he knew what a Pac 10 recruit looked like. It worried me. I saw BB film back then and said he had great feet. I thought he had the quickness of a Pac 10 player. I won't deny I was pleasantly surprised. I also loved Cory McKay. But two players does not mean a staff can find under the radar type of players like Price did. So no I didn't think Wulff at the time because he found a diamond in BB that he was a good evaluator of talent.

What did give me hope was the way Louis Bland played at the end of the 2008 season. He was their most consistent player at the end of the season. I wondered if he was the last player recruited, what else is in that class, so it gave me hope to the future. McKay was destined for a starting DE spot, Leandre McDaniel was the equal to Deone, unfortunately he broke his neck. And then there was Daniel Simmons. So there were players that could play Pac 10 ball.

The 2010 class for a school who lost like they did in 08 and 09 showed that staff could evaluate talent. That is the class that told me they were very good talent evaluators.

Getting back to Rolo, I will say I have not seen a potential recruit's highlights, so I can't even tell you the player looks good on tape.

And one last thing on Wulff- a good client of mine had been a OC at four different power five schools. I saw him right after Wulff was hired and I mentioned I was unsure about Wulff because not sure he knew what a Pac 12 player looked like. He said to me "Ed, a good portion of the best talent evaluators come from division 2, as all of the sure fire guys have already been picked through. They do a better job of projecting where a player can be an asset to the team. Not sure he was inaccurate.

 

[CougEd]

Eric, I'm not who you think I am.

Oh.....my mistake. Just odd for someone being on the board for two years would know much about my posting history.

 

[CougEd]

He has kids on offense to work with. The cupboard on offense isn't bare. Young QBs? Yes. Ya know what helps a young QB? A running game and receivers that can catch the ball. They have those. The OL has numbers. They should be able to move guys into the lineup and be fine. Can Rolo call plays at a high level? Cause Leach/AG couldn't figure out what to do with 2 DL and 9 in coverage.

Defensively, if the staff knows what they're doing and can coach football the kids move forward. The slap dix they had on the defensive staff last year did nothing to help the kids. If the defensive staff can win at TnT's this year, they'll be better. Is that saying much? Probably not. But they'll be better. Also, TnT's = Takes no Talent... lining up right, knowing your assignment, not making dumb mistakes, playing hard...

There is meat on the bone to be had. The right defensive staff could come in and get guys coached up and be a bit better. The right offensive staff could come in and call better plays and score more points. The right special teams staff could make things much easier for the defense.

Every team is going to have turnover. New guys every year. I give Leach credit for pushing money into the OL and QB positions to make sure there was enough talent there.

One, seriously how do you remotely know if Cooper or Cruz is Falk and not Bruggman? Two, what tells you the three lineman we have seen can run block if asked? Three, just one year earlier people though Tracy C was the equal of Alex Grinch. Did he and the staff get stupid overnight?

And as I ask that question, thinking back at the ASU game and not having a spy on their QB at the end of the game and he walks in for a TD, or the Air Force game in which the way we lined up on probably 10 plays if they were playing one handed touch football there was a guarantee of 8 yards.

 

[etowncoug]

Oh.....my mistake. Just odd for someone being on the board for two years would know much about my posting history.

I learned a lot about your posting history thanks to your and trons feuds.

 

[CougEd]

I learned a lot about your posting history thanks to your and trons feuds.

Weird, not sure I had feuds with Tron since 2017. Maybe you were one of the lurkers and never posted. BTW, the guy(Tron) has been MIA for the last 18 months.

 

[dgibbons]

I see you had Ed on the brain on a Saturday night at 8:30...and all day today. Pathetic.

“Bare cupboards” must be a family affliction.

 

[dgibbons]

Dblitherson...let me help you out. First, are you talking about Brian Bauchman of 2008, or 12 years ago? Are you talking about the BB that was finally recruited by USC and took their offer? Again, 12 years ago? wow...you must really care what I have to say which is bit strange.

One, when I said I haven't seen Rolo recruit, I mean I haven't seen him recruit. I haven't watched film of any potential recruits or verbally committed recruits.

Second, when Wulff was hired I didn't think he knew what a Pac 10 recruit looked like. It worried me. I saw BB film back then and said he had great feet. I thought he had the quickness of a Pac 10 player. I won't deny I was pleasantly surprised. I also loved Cory McKay. But two players does not mean a staff can find under the radar type of players like Price did. So no I didn't think Wulff at the time because he found a diamond in BB that he was a good evaluator of talent.

What did give me hope was the way Louis Bland played at the end of the 2008 season. He was their most consistent player at the end of the season. I wondered if he was the last player recruited, what else is in that class, so it gave me hope to the future. McKay was destined for a starting DE spot, Leandre McDaniel was the equal to Deone, unfortunately he broke his neck. And then there was Daniel Simmons. So there were players that could play Pac 10 ball.

The 2010 class for a school who lost like they did in 08 and 09 showed that staff could evaluate talent. That is the class that told me they were very good talent evaluators.

Getting back to Rolo, I will say I have not seen a potential recruit's highlights, so I can't even tell you the player looks good on tape.

And one last thing on Wulff- a good client of mine had been a OC at four different power five schools. I saw him right after Wulff was hired and I mentioned I was unsure about Wulff because not sure he knew what a Pac 12 player looked like. He said to me "Ed, a good portion of the best talent evaluators come from division 2, as all of the sure fire guys have already been picked through. They do a better job of projecting where a player can be an asset to the team. Not sure he was inaccurate.

This is a lot of words to admit you’re full of BS.

 

[BiggsCoug]

One, seriously how do you remotely know if Cooper or Cruz is Falk and not Bruggman? Two, what tells you the three lineman we have seen can run block if asked? Three, just one year earlier people though Tracy C was the equal of Alex Grinch. Did he and the staff get stupid overnight?

And as I ask that question, thinking back at the ASU game and not having a spy on their QB at the end of the game and he walks in for a TD, or the Air Force game in which the way we lined up on probably 10 plays if they were playing one handed touch football there was a guarantee of 8 yards.

1. I don't know that Cruz or Cooper is or isn't. No one does cause they got no reps. What I do like is that they could run the ball if they had to.

2. Maybe the OL can run block, maybe they can't. We haven't seen it in games. A smartly called run game with a mix of draw plays from QB and RB and a zone blocking scheme could be an easier transition than head up blocking moving people out of the way.

3. I don't think TC got stupid overnight. I think he saw a defense that lost its MLB and had no replacement. He saw a defensive backfield with tons of new bodies and no one ready to play or line up. Then his DB coach started mouthing off in practice and the HC wouldn't back him up. So, bye. They didn't have a good scheme, or the bodies they needed or the coaches they needed and it all added up to what we saw this year. You get dumber daily, so yes it is possible to get stupid overnight.

The guys Leach bumped to call the defense after TC left were JV ball coaches that didn't have a damn clue what they were doing. They had no business game planning or calling a defense on game day. None.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Tron has been MIA for the last 18 months.

Agree, this site is better when Tron is bringing his fiery passion.

Ed, have you seen or heard from you skirt-chasing buddy Loyal Coug in the last year or so?

Not the same here without him

 

[spongeworthy12]

“Bare cupboards” must be a family affliction.

Oh burn dude.

Is Ed gonna be on your brain all night tonight as well?

 

[kougkurt]

Agree, this site is better when Tron is bringing his fiery passion.

Ed, have you seen or heard from you skirt-chasing buddy Loyal Coug in the last year or so?

Not the same here without him

I think loyal got banned for letting Yaki get under his skin

 

[dgibbons]

Oh burn dude.

Is Ed gonna be on your brain all night tonight as well?

I guess the appropriate response is don’t worry. Soon you’ll make another equally dumb post, and then you’ll get plenty of attention too. Don’t be jealous of your brother.

 

[CougEd]

I think loyal got banned for letting Yaki get under his skin

Correct and we haven/t seen him since

 

[etowncoug]

2012 v 2020:

QB: Leach inherited experience at QB. Tuel had played a bunch and Connor was a 4 star who looked good when he played. Rolo inherits 3 four star QB's who have never played a snap. I'll give 2012 the edge.

RB: Carl Winston, Marcus Mason, Rickey Galvin and Leon Brooks wasn't a promising group. Teondray Caldwell's ability to come in and immediately contribute says more about them than it did him. Max Borghi's career speaks for itself, but Deon McIntosh is better than anyone on this group also. This doesn't begin to factor in the talent of Bazile and Buchanan.

WR: Marquise Wilson was the teams most talented player. Ratliffe, Myers, Simone, and Kristoff Williams has shown enough to let us know we'd be ok at receiver. Dom Williams hadn't played yet. Rolo inherits a pretty good group though. Tay Martin has quietly amassed 1600 yds and 18 TD's in his career. Calvin Jackson, Travell Harris, Renard Bell, and Jamire Calvin each have multiple seasons as contributors. 2020 is a notch better, even before you think about deducting points from 2012 for Wilson's attitude problems.

OL: Which player Leach inherited in 2012 would start for the Cougs in 2020? Maybe Fullington if Ryan were to slide back over to guard. When depth is factored into the equation 2020 wins in a route.

Offensively, it's not even close. 2020 wins by far.

DL: Anthony Laurenzi had some talent but decided stealing would be a good life choice. Cooper was an under the radar guy who never played a down for Wulff, Pole and Paulo were guys who blossomed under Leach. Honestly, guys like Rodgers, Hobbes, McDougle, and Kwete have done more what Leach inherited. Pencil in Taylor and Stone at DE too.

LB: CJ never lasted because he was a knucklehead and Kausofi wasn't very good and also a knucklehead. Even so Travis Long was a stud and Cyrus Coen had some experience. Plenty of bodies at LB, but not a ton of experience. Rolo gets plenty of experience but not a ton of talent. Woods is good, but most fans are rooting for more reps for Travion Brown over Dillion Sherman or Justus Rogers. I'm curious to see what Rocky Katoanga and Penu Naulu are able to do after redshirting. I'd give the slight edge to 2020 based on experience of the seniors but neither unit is great.

DB: The one area where 2012 runs away with it. Leach inherited a secondary (not a good one) but it was experienced and Bucannon showed talent early on.

Overall, I'd rather be Dickert in 2020 than Breske in 2012.

There are plenty of players who Rolo inherited who are going to go on to have fine careers, but we don't know who they are yet. We should be able to agree that there are more P5 caliber athletes in the program now than there were a decade ago. We just don't know who they are going to be.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Correct and we haven/t seen him since

Thanks for the update Ed.

Do you expect Loyal to make a return at some point?

A lifetime ban seems pretty serious for a good-natured tiff.

 

[etowncoug]

I don't think the 1998 team cratered because they needed to learn how to win, they struggled because they weren't very good. They were younger, less talented, and less experienced than the rest of the PAC. Prices culture was in place. They knew what it took to win.

The 1998 and 1999 classes brought in some really nice HS talent. Then we added a lot of JC bodies from 2000 to 2002 to supplement a talented group.

Maybe it was a lack of talent, or maybe it was philosophical, but I don't remember many examples of kids hanging around the program for 3-4 years without playing before breaking into stardom as upperclassmen.

 

[Coug90]

1. I don't know that Cruz or Cooper is or isn't. No one does cause they got no reps. What I do like is that they could run the ball if they had to.

2. Maybe the OL can run block, maybe they can't. We haven't seen it in games. A smartly called run game with a mix of draw plays from QB and RB and a zone blocking scheme could be an easier transition than head up blocking moving people out of the way.

3. I don't think TC got stupid overnight. I think he saw a defense that lost its MLB and had no replacement. He saw a defensive backfield with tons of new bodies and no one ready to play or line up. Then his DB coach started mouthing off in practice and the HC wouldn't back him up. So, bye. They didn't have a good scheme, or the bodies they needed or the coaches they needed and it all added up to what we saw this year. You get dumber daily, so yes it is possible to get stupid overnight.

The guys Leach bumped to call the defense after TC left were JV ball coaches that didn't have a damn clue what they were doing. They had no business game planning or calling a defense on game day. None.

He didn’t get dumb overnight but it’s fair to say Clayes was a one trick pony and adjusting to his personnel was non existent. The best coaches can make schematic adjustments if they don’t have the horses, injuries, etc to play to the strengths they do have. There’s mixed reviews about Grinch but IMO this was where he was exceptional. Clayes didn’t have the dude’s he had at Minnesota, but he kept trying do the same thing and was shoving a square peg in a round hole.

 

[BiggsCoug]

He didn’t get dumb overnight but it’s fair to say Clayes was a one trick pony and adjusting to his personnel was non existent. The best coaches can make schematic adjustments if they don’t have the horses, injuries, etc to play to the strengths they do have. There’s mixed reviews about Grinch but IMO this was where he was exceptional. Clayes didn’t have the dude’s he had at Minnesota, but he kept trying do the same thing and was shoving a square peg in a round hole.

Im not disagreeing with your thoughts of him only knowing one scheme... I just think he didn't have the tools to run any scheme. He didn't have the speed on the DL to run the speed D. He didn't have bruising LBs to stop the run.. He didn't have DBs that could line up right let alone play well. It was nothing but a square peg in a round hole with any scheme he could've run. Any way he was gonna slice it he needed help from special teams and the offense to give him as much runway as possible.

 

[CougEd]

He didn’t get dumb overnight but it’s fair to say Clayes was a one trick pony and adjusting to his personnel was non existent. The best coaches can make schematic adjustments if they don’t have the horses, injuries, etc to play to the strengths they do have. There’s mixed reviews about Grinch but IMO this was where he was exceptional. Clayes didn’t have the dude’s he had at Minnesota, but he kept trying do the same thing and was shoving a square peg in a round hole.

90... Look at Mike Leach’s system . He runs it because he knows like the back of his hand. It is effective most of the time. It is simple but reps the hell out of it. And he is able to plug and play athletes in it that fit a profile. He knows what he is looking for out of the slot. He recruits to a system, just as Price and Doba tried to recruit to their system .

I have probably seen two coaches who could toggle back and forth between a 3-4 and and 4-3 and be effective . And the names are parcels and belichek. Belichek is brilliant at making a team play left handed and faking away the number one option.

Not sure what system Claeys could have run and be effective with that group with no pressure on qb and the back end filled with inexperience .

And I agree with Biggs when saying the team was simply in the wrong defense and not in a position to make a play against Air Force. And not having a spy on Daniels at the end of the ASU game clearly was a brain fart .

But I would be curious to hear what he could have done to be more effective .

 

[spongeworthy12]

Im not disagreeing with your thoughts of him only knowing one scheme... I just think he didn't have the tools to run any scheme. He didn't have the speed on the DL to run the speed D. He didn't have bruising LBs to stop the run.. He didn't have DBs that could line up right let alone play well. It was nothing but a square peg in a round hole with any scheme he could've run. Any way he was gonna slice it he needed help from special teams and the offense to give him as much runway as possible.

Don't let dblithers see this. He'll get triggered as he thinks we have the 85 Bears D in the cupboard.

 

[CougEd]

I don't think the 1998 team cratered because they needed to learn how to win, they struggled because they weren't very good. They were younger, less talented, and less experienced than the rest of the PAC. Prices culture was in place. They knew what it took to win.

The 1998 and 1999 classes brought in some really nice HS talent. Then we added a lot of JC bodies from 2000 to 2002 to supplement a talented group.

Maybe it was a lack of talent, or maybe it was philosophical, but I don't remember many examples of kids hanging around the program for 3-4 years without playing before breaking into stardom as upperclassmen.

Hmmmm....I am pretty sure I didn’t say or even imply the 98 season cratered because they didn’t know how to win. They cratered because talent left and they didn’t create depth, and in some cases had no depth or bodies. But rebuilding it back up and learning how to win takes time.

2000 they played three OT games and they ended up under .500. Those games there is a razor thin edge between making the play and winning and not. Each of those games probably came down to making the right play at the right moment . They didn’t know how to win .

 

[CougEd]

2012 v 2020:

QB: Leach inherited experience at QB. Tuel had played a bunch and Connor was a 4 star who looked good when he played. Rolo inherits 3 four star QB's who have never played a snap. I'll give 2012 the edge.

RB: Carl Winston, Marcus Mason, Rickey Galvin and Leon Brooks wasn't a promising group. Teondray Caldwell's ability to come in and immediately contribute says more about them than it did him. Max Borghi's career speaks for itself, but Deon McIntosh is better than anyone on this group also. This doesn't begin to factor in the talent of Bazile and Buchanan.

WR: Marquise Wilson was the teams most talented player. Ratliffe, Myers, Simone, and Kristoff Williams has shown enough to let us know we'd be ok at receiver. Dom Williams hadn't played yet. Rolo inherits a pretty good group though. Tay Martin has quietly amassed 1600 yds and 18 TD's in his career. Calvin Jackson, Travell Harris, Renard Bell, and Jamire Calvin each have multiple seasons as contributors. 2020 is a notch better, even before you think about deducting points from 2012 for Wilson's attitude problems.

OL: Which player Leach inherited in 2012 would start for the Cougs in 2020? Maybe Fullington if Ryan were to slide back over to guard. When depth is factored into the equation 2020 wins in a route.

Offensively, it's not even close. 2020 wins by far.

DL: Anthony Laurenzi had some talent but decided stealing would be a good life choice. Cooper was an under the radar guy who never played a down for Wulff, Pole and Paulo were guys who blossomed under Leach. Honestly, guys like Rodgers, Hobbes, McDougle, and Kwete have done more what Leach inherited. Pencil in Taylor and Stone at DE too.

LB: CJ never lasted because he was a knucklehead and Kausofi wasn't very good and also a knucklehead. Even so Travis Long was a stud and Cyrus Coen had some experience. Plenty of bodies at LB, but not a ton of experience. Rolo gets plenty of experience but not a ton of talent. Woods is good, but most fans are rooting for more reps for Travion Brown over Dillion Sherman or Justus Rogers. I'm curious to see what Rocky Katoanga and Penu Naulu are able to do after redshirting. I'd give the slight edge to 2020 based on experience of the seniors but neither unit is great.

DB: The one area where 2012 runs away with it. Leach inherited a secondary (not a good one) but it was experienced and Bucannon showed talent early on.

Overall, I'd rather be Dickert in 2020 than Breske in 2012.

There are plenty of players who Rolo inherited who are going to go on to have fine careers, but we don't know who they are yet. We should be able to agree that there are more P5 caliber athletes in the program now than there were a decade ago. We just don't know who they are going to be.

Hmmm... only one who might start was Fullington? Just out of curiosity Would you start OConnell or Ryan at guard if the two competed at their prime and neither could switch positions ?

 

[Coug1990]

90... Look at Mike Leach’s system . He runs it because he knows like the back of his hand. It is effective most of the time. It is simple but reps the hell out of it. And he is able to plug and play athletes in it that fit a profile. He knows what he is looking for out of the slot. He recruits to a system, just as Price and Doba tried to recruit to their system .

I have probably seen two coaches who could toggle back and forth between a 3-4 and and 4-3 and be effective . And the names are parcels and belichek. Belichek is brilliant at making a team play left handed and faking away the number one option.

Not sure what system Claeys could have run and be effective with that group with no pressure on qb and the back end filled with inexperience .

And I agree with Biggs when saying the team was simply in the wrong defense and not in a position to make a play against Air Force. And not having a spy on Daniels at the end of the ASU game clearly was a brain fart .

But I would be curious to hear what he could have done to be more effective .

Last season was the worst defensive coaching that I have seen at WSU. Having three defensive coordinators in three years hurt. Having several new coaches in that time hurt, as they were not on the same page.

Players were continually out of position. Players did not improve as you would normally see as they got experience. The players themselves had no confidence and you could see it. Without confidence, you get what we saw last season,

 

[Coug1990]

Hmmm... only one who might start was Fullington? Just out of curiosity Would you start OConnell or Ryan at guard if the two competed at their prime and neither could switch positions ?

Not Etown, but probably O'Connell. As you know, O'Connell was a Leach recruit.

But, the question is not entirely fair to Ryan. Ryan was a very good guard starting as a sophomore. O'Connell was still a backup. O'Connell was outstanding playing his natural position for two years.

Ryan for the team sake, moved to left tackle. He was actually very good, but not as good as the player he replaced, who is one of the best ever at WSU.

Who knows what we would be saying about Ryan if he had stayed at guard last season. Who knows what we will be saying about Ryan after this season. His story is not complete yet.

 

[FnuLnu]

Thanks for the update Ed.

Do you expect Loyal to make a return at some point?

A lifetime ban seems pretty serious for a good-natured tiff.

Looks like Loyal "cougEd it" by getting a lifetime ban over a "tiff".

But not CougEd, who has stayed and remained "Loyal" to the teachings of Paul Wulff.

 

[etowncoug]

Hmmmm....I am pretty sure I didn’t say or even imply the 98 season cratered because they didn’t know how to win. They cratered because talent left and they didn’t create depth, and in some cases had no depth or bodies. But rebuilding it back up and learning how to win takes time.

2000 they played three OT games and they ended up under .500. Those games there is a razor thin edge between making the play and winning and not. Each of those games probably came down to making the right play at the right moment . They didn’t know how to win .

You might say the margin of defeat was the difference between Mory Banks and Lamont Thompson.

 

[etowncoug]

Not Etown, but probably O'Connell. As you know, O'Connell was a Leach recruit.

But, the question is not entirely fair to Ryan. Ryan was a very good guard starting as a sophomore. O'Connell was still a backup. O'Connell was outstanding playing his natural position for two years.

Ryan for the team sake, moved to left tackle. He was actually very good, but not as good as the player he replaced, who is one of the best ever at WSU.

Who knows what we would be saying about Ryan if he had stayed at guard last season. Who knows what we will be saying about Ryan after this season. His story is not complete yet.

This is correct. O'Connell was a bit of a project who didn't play outside of the FG unit until his Jr. year. Then he became an all American. Ryan was in the rotation as a freshman.

W/r/t 2012 v. 2020, O'Connell is a distraction from Ed's moronic assertion on the Oline being roughly the same in talent. The chasm was huge. Not only was Leach handed a few of players who had never seen the inside of a weight room, but they also weren't a talented group. Rolo is inheriting a bunch of guys who understand what it takes to compete at this level. I imagine some shuffling will take place because Rolo emphasizes different qualities, but he has the personnel to make it work.

I'd take Ryan over Fullington as a LT. Ryan is a RS Sr while Fullington was only a Jr. Most of Fullingtons success came after Leach got here and he doesn't bounce around the NFL if Wulff was in charge of his development.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Don't let dblithers see this. He'll get triggered as he thinks we have the 85 Bears D in the cupboard.

Who cares what he thinks or says????

 

[CougEd]

Last season was the worst defensive coaching that I have seen at WSU. Having three defensive coordinators in three years hurt. Having several new coaches in that time hurt, as they were not on the same page.

Players were continually out of position. Players did not improve as you would normally see as they got experience. The players themselves had no confidence and you could see it. Without confidence, you get what we saw last season,

Not Etown, but probably O'Connell. As you know, O'Connell was a Leach recruit.

But, the question is not entirely fair to Ryan. Ryan was a very good guard starting as a sophomore. O'Connell was still a backup. O'Connell was outstanding playing his natural position for two years.

Ryan for the team sake, moved to left tackle. He was actually very good, but not as good as the player he replaced, who is one of the best ever at WSU.

Who knows what we would be saying about Ryan if he had stayed at guard last season. Who knows what we will be saying about Ryan after this season. His story is not complete yet.

Sorry maybe wasn't clear, but goes to a greater point. if O'Connell is a junior at the same time Liam Ryan is a junior, one starts, and you can't move the one who comes in second to another position, who do you start?

 

[etowncoug]

Sorry maybe wasn't clear, but goes to a greater point. if O'Connell is a junior at the same time Liam Ryan is a junior, one starts, and you can't move the one who comes in second to another position, who do you start?

There is no point to this question w/r/t 2012 and 2020.

 

[CougEd]

This is correct. O'Connell was a bit of a project who didn't play outside of the FG unit until his Jr. year. Then he became an all American. Ryan was in the rotation as a freshman.

W/r/t 2012 v. 2020, O'Connell is a distraction from Ed's moronic assertion on the Oline being roughly the same in talent. The chasm was huge. Not only was Leach handed a few of players who had never seen the inside of a weight room, but they also weren't a talented group. Rolo is inheriting a bunch of guys who understand what it takes to compete at this level. I imagine some shuffling will take place because Rolo emphasizes different qualities, but he has the personnel to make it work.

I'd take Ryan over Fullington as a LT. Ryan is a RS Sr while Fullington was only a Jr. Most of Fullingtons success came after Leach got here and he doesn't bounce around the NFL if Wulff was in charge of his development.

Maybe it is moronic, but Fullington being on an NFL roster, Rodgers getting drafted (O'Connell despite being AA didn't get an invite to the combine) seems to indicate there were players on campus. On top of that, Leach had players who couldn't unseat three walk-ons who were on campus when he arrived or in Dahl's case already decided to transfer to WSU. Dahl, Middleton, Ecklund and Bosch for two years didn't get beat out. Small...no question per player they were at least 25 pounds lighter than what Leach liked.

Leach liked players who could get in front of someone. Never asked them really to pull, move, trap, or other things some other teams may ask their lineman to do. That may explain why Rodgers got drafted and O'Connell did not. But if we are talking about talent left behind teh hole is not as huge as you are making it out to be. Again, just what other teams see in terms of physical ability, Dahl, Rodgers and Fullington serem to have ability as did Ewardo Middleton, and Ecklund could not be replaced.

In terms of development, I would put up Steve Morton's ability to develop players up against McGuires any day of the week.

Moving forward, I fully concede there maybe two or three players that can be high bar pac 12 players. We havent seen any of them. And too be honest, Leach would roll through a ton of lineman to get his five players out there. Look at the attrition...where he is smarter than Price is he found a way for those he missed on to go find a better spot so they can play.

 

[CougEd]

There is no point to this question w/r/t 2012 and 2020.

Sure there is ....

 

[dgibbons]

Who cares what he thinks or says????

Obviously you do.

 

[425cougfan]

Ed is Chinese propaganda.

Hmmm .... Chinese? Too funny. Not so sure. What is Chinese propaganda? When did I make pro-Sino statements? Not sure I did? Too funny.