Blame our University, alumni, and fans

[CougPatrol]

Larry Scott? Sure. George K? OK. You won't hear me coming to their defense. For me though, as I look back on things, I point my finger at the University, our alumni, and our fan base.

The failure to capitalize on the Mike Price breakthrough era is the single greatest factor in our demise. Compare and contrast how Utah handled their rise to glory with ours and you'll better understand what I'm talking about. 24 hours after we defeated UW in 1997, it should have been made loud and clear that WSU was going to heavily invest in Price, our assistant coaches, and the football program as a whole. It didn't happen. Then, in 2001/2002, we had the opportunity to correct the mistake and double down on my first statement. Instead, we crashed and burned. We had the tiger by the tail. The dream scenario. A charismatic head coach who won at a level never seen before, and arguably the best defensive coordinator in the conference. More importantly, it was a head coach/defensive coordinator combo who worked perfectly together without power struggles. Doba would have worked under Price through retirement. Yes, Price was getting tempted to leave, but money would have solved the problem. I've heard him suggest as much directly.

The next arrow in my quiver is pointed at our cheap, double talking alumni. The fans who love to chug beer, scream GO COUGS, wave flags, and profess "once a coug, always a coug." These are the same fans who never donate to the program or attend games. This is an almuni base that has ranked dead last in athletic giving for decades. But they love their license plate frames and giving advice on how the program should be run. We sold 23K tickets for our homecoming game vs. Cal last year. Take away our games vs. Oregon and UW, and we averaged 22K in Martin Stadium last season. In 2019, the season after our wonderful 2018 year, we averaged just over 28K fans for the first two home games of the season. The 5-year average from 2015-2019, the heart of the Mike Leach era, we ranked dead last in attendance. UW & SC averaged over 66K fans. UCLA and Oregon over 55K. ASU, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Cal, and Stanford averaged just under 50K collectively. WSU? Dead last at 30,300. The donor numbers even worse.

I feel bad for our diehard fans and our season ticket holders, but the vast majority of our social media fans, the one's who keep asking how this could happen. They can piss off. Our University, Athletic department, and alumni are all Mountain West. Always have been.

 

[MapleStCoug]

This doesn't really explain why the deadweight in the B1G and the SEC are still getting checks then. If it was primarily an issue of investing in coaches and facilities then Northwestern, Indiana and Vanderbilt would be in the same boat. This could change of course especially if this blows up in Fox's face (like I think it will) and they end up looking at ways to cut costs. But right now it's primarily on poor leadership from Pac 12 presidents on decisions from reluctance to expand due to reasons that are out of touch with the reality of modern cfb and of course hitching the cart to substandard commissioners who look like minnows in shark tank. I do get the frustration with attendance the last few years, seems to be a bit of a trend at least on the west coast -haven't looked enough to see if it's nationwide as well. I don't disagree that fans and alumni generally haven't stepped up the same way as other programs, I just saw yesterday someone in diehard cougs post about how they're going to their first game in 20 years. Oh the irony.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Larry Scott? Sure. George K? OK. You won't hear me coming to their defense. For me though, as I look back on things, I point my finger at the University, our alumni, and our fan base.

The failure to capitalize on the Mike Price breakthrough era is the single greatest factor in our demise. Compare and contrast how Utah handled their rise to glory with ours and you'll better understand what I'm talking about. 24 hours after we defeated UW in 1997, it should have been made loud and clear that WSU was going to heavily invest in Price, our assistant coaches, and the football program as a whole. It didn't happen. Then, in 2001/2002, we had the opportunity to correct the mistake and double down on my first statement. Instead, we crashed and burned. We had the tiger by the tail. The dream scenario. A charismatic head coach who won at a level never seen before, and arguably the best defensive coordinator in the conference. More importantly, it was a head coach/defensive coordinator combo who worked perfectly together without power struggles. Doba would have worked under Price through retirement. Yes, Price was getting tempted to leave, but money would have solved the problem. I've heard him suggest as much directly.

The next arrow in my quiver is pointed at our cheap, double talking alumni. The fans who love to chug beer, scream GO COUGS, wave flags, and profess "once a coug, always a coug." These are the same fans who never donate to the program or attend games. This is an almuni base that has ranked dead last in athletic giving for decades. But they love their license plate frames and giving advice on how the program should be run. We sold 23K tickets for our homecoming game vs. Cal last year. Take away our games vs. Oregon and UW, and we averaged 22K in Martin Stadium last season. In 2019, the season after our wonderful 2018 year, we averaged just over 28K fans for the first two home games of the season. The 5-year average from 2015-2019, the heart of the Mike Leach era, we ranked dead last in attendance. UW & SC averaged over 66K fans. UCLA and Oregon over 55K. ASU, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Cal, and Stanford averaged just under 50K collectively. WSU? Dead last at 30,300. The donor numbers even worse.

I feel bad for our diehard fans and our season ticket holders, but the vast majority of our social media fans, the one's who keep asking how this could happen. They can piss off. Our University, Athletic department, and alumni are all Mountain West. Always have been.

So what... you want a prize for stating what everyone on this board knows?

The biggest failure of the last two ADs is to failing to create or at least begin to build a long term, sustainable donor base.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This doesn't really explain why the deadweight in the B1G and the SEC are still getting checks then. If it was primarily an issue of investing in coaches and facilities then Northwestern, Indiana and Vanderbilt would be in the same boat. This could change of course especially if this blows up in Fox's face (like I think it will) and they end up looking at ways to cut costs. But right now it's primarily on poor leadership from Pac 12 presidents on decisions from reluctance to expand due to reasons that are out of touch with the reality of modern cfb and of course hitching the cart to substandard commissioners who look like minnows in shark tank. I do get the frustration with attendance the last few years, seems to be a bit of a trend at least on the west coast -haven't looked enough to see if it's nationwide as well. I don't disagree that fans and alumni generally haven't stepped up the same way as other programs, I just saw yesterday someone in diehard cougs post about how they're going to their first game in 20 years. Oh the irony.

Here's a tip: don't go to DieHardCougs.

I would wager that 90% of the members of that group give exactly ZERO to the CAF.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Here's a tip: don't go to DieHardCougs.

I would wager that 90% of the members of that group give exactly ZERO to the CAF.

That is the gathering place of the shittiest Coug fans on earth.

 

[MapleStCoug]

Here's a tip: don't go to DieHardCougs.

I would wager that 90% of the members of that group give exactly ZERO to the CAF.

Oh 100% it just was making the rounds in my twitter feed. Place is a dumpster fire.

 

[CougPatrol]

So what... you want a prize for stating what everyone on this board knows?

The biggest failure of the last two ADs is to failing to create or at least begin to build a long term, sustainable donor base.

Yea, that's why I frequent this board. For the SWAG.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Here's a tip: don't go to DieHardCougs.

I would wager that 90% of the members of that group give exactly ZERO to the CAF.

That is the gathering place of the shittiest Coug fans on earth.

Maybe the conference situation is what it takes to light a fire over there?

They've got like 32,000 members and counting

 

[PeteTheChop]

The biggest failure of the last two ADs is to failing to create or at least begin to build a long term, sustainable donor base.

Sterk and Moos?

Or Moos and Chun?

I've gotten the sense that Chun shakes hands and kisses babies with the hoi polloi (well except for that guy who secretly took photos of an unmasked Chun at a coaches luncheon during the Covid hysteria)


(Here is Chun wearing his mask .. not sure if before or after he got in trouble)

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Maybe the conference situation is what it takes to light a fire over there?

They've got like 32,000 members and counting

The only fire being lit there would be some of them lighting up a bong hoping that this is all a fever dream.

 

[425cougfan]

All that stuff in the OP regarding our fans is accurate, but that's not what led to this. What led to this are those underground springs being under Pullman and the authorities' at the time placement of the land grant university in Pullman. I'm not kidding.

Look at schools that have grown out of "have-not" status. They're exceedingly rare generally. Show me one that is not one or all of the flagship university in the state, in or close to a major metropolitan area, and/or a benefactor of massive sports-directed donations from a wealthy alumnus. I'm not aware of any, particularly in the west. WSU has none of those.

Utah? Money. Literally in a large city with no NFL competition. That's a lot more important than winning and filling that 45,000-seat stadium. Even they barely make the cut for something like the Big 12.

Oregon? We all know the story there.

Oklahoma State is like Oregon, to the extent one considers them in the "west."

Kansas State? Maybe the best example one could come up with, but they had a truly legendary coach forever and, again, are in a location where people actually give a shit about sports. So, all right, perhaps one school that would likely get left out of any further consolidation but that has done a pretty good job of capitalizing on success to build facilities, get sizeable donations, and make it tougher to be left out, leveraging a legendary coach.

Boise? Doesn't count, really, and those guys have a hard time selling seats and getting national attention when they aren't 13-0. They're irrelevant. They're not getting in a current P5 or equivalent. They couldn't even get in the Pac-12.

So who else?

No reasonably possible amount of winning or capitalizing on the early 2000s run would change the basic situation regarding the university. It's all about location. That has direct impacts that are pretty obvious and, through indirect means, other impacts on absolutely everything about WSU, right down to quality of applicants, institutional prestige, earnings potential of graduates, their disposable income, and their propensity to donate said income or spend it on sports and other events in Pullman.

 

[PeteTheChop]

The only fire being lit there would be some of them lighting up a bong hoping that this is all a fever dream.

Convert all 32,000 Brand Z members to WSU season-ticket holders and Biggsy's 65,000-seat stadium is filled to the rim

 

[wazzucougs96]

All that stuff in the OP regarding our fans is accurate, but that's not what led to this. What led to this are those underground springs being under Pullman and the authorities' at the time placement of the land grant university in Pullman. I'm not kidding.

Look at schools that have grown out of "have-not" status. They're exceedingly rare generally. Show me one that is not one or all of the flagship university in the state, in or close to a major metropolitan area, and/or a benefactor of massive sports-directed donations from a wealthy alumnus. I'm not aware of any, particularly in the west. WSU has none of those.

Utah? Money. Literally in a large city with no NFL competition. That's a lot more important than winning and filling that 45,000-seat stadium. Even they barely make the cut for something like the Big 12.

Oregon? We all know the story there.

Oklahoma State is like Oregon, to the extent one considers them in the "west."

Kansas State? Maybe the best example one could come up with, but they had a truly legendary coach forever and, again, are in a location where people actually give a shit about sports. So, all right, perhaps one school that would likely get left out of any further consolidation but that has done a pretty good job of capitalizing on success to build facilities, get sizeable donations, and make it tougher to be left out, leveraging a legendary coach.

Boise? Doesn't count, really, and those guys have a hard time selling seats and getting national attention when they aren't 13-0. They're irrelevant. They're not getting in a current P5 or equivalent. They couldn't even get in the Pac-12.

So who else?

No reasonably possible amount of winning or capitalizing on the early 2000s run would change the basic situation regarding the university. It's all about location. That has direct impacts that are pretty obvious and, through indirect means, other impacts on absolutely everything about WSU, right down to quality of applicants, institutional prestige, earnings potential of graduates, their disposable income, and their propensity to donate said income or spend it on sports and other events in Pullman.

I know it's blasphemy to say this but the fate was sealed when the school wasn't built in Spokane.

 

[PeteTheChop]

All that stuff in the OP regarding our fans is accurate, but that's not what led to this. What led to this are those underground springs being under Pullman and the authorities' at the time placement of the land grant university in Pullman. I'm not kidding.

Look at schools that have grown out of "have-not" status. They're exceedingly rare generally. Show me one that is not one or all of the flagship university in the state, in or close to a major metropolitan area, and/or a benefactor of massive sports-directed donations from a wealthy alumnus. I'm not aware of any. WSU has none of those.

Utah? Money. Literally in a large city with no NFL competition. That's a lot more important than winning and filling that 45,000-seat stadium. Even they barely make the cut for something like the Big 12.

Oregon? We all know the story there.

Boise? Doesn't count, really, and those guys have a hard time selling seats and getting national attention when they aren't 13-0. They're irrelevant. They're not getting in a current P5 or equivalent. They couldn't even get in the Pac-12.

So who else?

No reasonably possible amount of winning or capitalizing on the early 2000s run would change the basic situation regarding the university. It's all about location. That has direct impacts that are pretty obvious and, through indirect means, other impacts on absolutely everything about WSU, right down to quality of applicants, institutional prestige, earnings potential of graduates, their disposable income, and their propensity to donate said income or spend it on sports and other events in Pullman.

Good post as usual 425.

Maybe WSU isn't the next Alabama or Clemson, but isn't consistent success in a Power 5 conference well within reach? Mike Leach proved that

Flat himself has said WSU has a lot of similarities with Kansas State — and the Wildcats won the Big 12 and played in the Sweet 16 last year. They are very competitive year to year.

K-State has tremendous fan support despite being overshadowed by the Jayhawks and despite its location in a town quite similar in size to Pullman.

I saw something the other day — it might've been on Brand X or Brand Y — that pondered what might've been had Mike Price not left after WSU's second Rose Bowl in six years.

What if Jim Sterk had rallied the troops and found a way to keep CMP from his ill-fated move to Tuscaloosa?

 

[dgibbons]

I know it's blasphemy to say this but the fate was sealed when the school wasn't built in Spokane.

But you're all forgetting I probably would not have gone to WSU if it was located in Spokane, and you would have missed out on all of my posts during the last 25 or so years.

 

[AVeritas]

k-stater here.

sometimes we get caught in a randomness of events which we can't do a damn thing about it. the p12 killed itself when it refused txt and oSu as partners with texas and ou. that was just academic arrogance that in the end killed the conference.

the randomness? well, had it happened, it would be k-state in the mwc along with iowa state and others out here who now wipe our brow that we randomly found a way.

good luck to y'all. always thought highly of kirk schulz. he did great things at k-state and won't fail for lack of effort.

 

[BSpike76]

k-stater here.

sometimes we get caught in a randomness of events which we can't do a damn thing about it. the p12 killed itself when it refused txt and oSu as partners with texas and ou. that was just academic arrogance that in the end killed the conference.

the randomness? well, had it happened, it would be k-state in the mwc along with iowa state and others out here who now wipe our brow that we randomly found a way.

good luck to y'all. always thought highly of kirk schulz. he did great things at k-state and won't fail for lack of effort.

I thought OSU was a part of the package. Or was this the later go round a year or 2 ago?

the 1st time in, in 2011, it was Tex, A&M, OK, OSU, TT and Col.

U$C and FUCLA nixed the later attempt, is what I’ve heard. If the rest of the PAC didn’t want OSU, I don’t know who they would have wanted after Tex and OK left.

 

[COUGinNCW]

I know it's blasphemy to say this but the fate was sealed when the school wasn't built in Spokane.

I think Wenatchee would have been the perfect location. 2 hours from 5M peeps in Western Wa but isolated enough for the college experience.

 

[wazzucougs96]

I think Wenatchee would have been the perfect location. 2 hours from 5M peeps in Western Wa but isolated enough for the college experience.

still pretty tricky to get to though. You need to be on a major freeway, so either somewhere in the south Sound/Olympia area or along 90.

 

[dgibbons]

I thought OSU was a part of the package. Or was this the later go round a year or 2 ago?

the 1st time in, in 2011, it was Tex, A&M, OK, OSU, TT and Col.

U$C and FUCLA nixed the later attempt, is what I’ve heard. If the rest of the PAC didn’t want OSU, I don’t know who they would have wanted after Tex and OK left.

He's referring to last year.

 

[roses04]

This is long sorry, but it’s my last post on this subject for a while.

In hind site there are lots of people and institutions to hold accountable, but in reality WSU always was and will be a small market school. That could have been overcome by stronger fan support and dollars, but that has always been a tough hill to climb. However in the end it will be about money, and that deck was always stacked against WSU

Sadly the Pac 8-10, or 12, appears to be imploding, hopefully something can be salvaged. It appears there will no longer be a power 5 conference on the west coast. The other sad thing is the last week of November, rivalry week, has been ruined because of money. Not just the Apple Cup but many, the list is too long for me to even think off. The other issue is travel, football will be bad enough, basketball worse, and for all the other sports, making their own regional league might make sense, as the cost and travel will be brutal.

I do believe all this money will ruin football on the West Coast, sure Washington may end up in the Big 10, but most Huskies aren’t happy about, and many said they are done buying season tickets if this happens. I guess time will tell.

Realignment with continue for many years. However, the next step, in a few years, will be teams in the Big 10 and SEC, that under perform, at the gate and on the field, they will get relegated (kicked out) and be looking for new conference.

The Big 10 and SEC, will demand at least 1/2 of the playoff positions in 2026 when the new contract comes up. And in effect those two conferences will dictate what happens, which will put another nail in the college athletics coffin.

I’ve seen a lot of changes in my 6 decades of college sports, most have been good. But not the past few years, the portal, NIL and now conference realignment have make a huge shift on how things are done, It might be good for 15-20 teams but not for the other 100 or so.

I’ll still root for the Cougs where they are, but my days of watching other schools is done. We need to kill the ratings to stop this non sense.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This is long sorry, but it’s my last post on this subject for a while.

In hind site there are lots of people and institutions to hold accountable, but in reality WSU always was and will be a small market school. That could have been overcome by stronger fan support and dollars, but that has always been a tough hill to climb. However in the end it will be about money, and that deck was always stacked against WSU

Sadly the Pac 8-10, or 12, appears to be imploding, hopefully something can be salvaged. It appears there will no longer be a power 5 conference on the west coast. The other sad thing is the last week of November, rivalry week, has been ruined because of money. Not just the Apple Cup but many, the list is too long for me to even think off. The other issue is travel, football will be bad enough, basketball worse, and for all the other sports, making their own regional league might make sense, as the cost and travel will be brutal.

I do believe all this money will ruin football on the West Coast, sure Washington may end up in the Big 10, but most Huskies aren’t happy about, and many said they are done buying season tickets if this happens. I guess time will tell.

Realignment with continue for many years. However, the next step, in a few years, will be teams in the Big 10 and SEC, that under perform, at the gate and on the field, they will get relegated (kicked out) and be looking for new conference.

The Big 10 and SEC, will demand at least 1/2 of the playoff positions in 2026 when the new contract comes up. And in effect those two conferences will dictate what happens, which will put another nail in the college athletics coffin.

I’ve seen a lot of changes in my 6 decades of college sports, most have been good. But not the past few years, the portal, NIL and now conference realignment have make a huge shift on how things are done, It might be good for 15-20 teams but not for the other 100 or so.

I’ll still root for the Cougs where they are, but my days of watching other schools is done. We need to kill the ratings to stop this non sense.

If only there was an institution in place to regulate and ensure equity in college sports. If only...

Nothing can be done about deep pocket private donors, but conference realignment as we're witnessing now is akin to gerrymandering and absolutely should be squashed.

 

[LeachPack]

Yea, that's why I frequent this board. For the SWAG.

You mean SWASS

 

[CougEd]

I think Wenatchee would have been the perfect location. 2 hours from 5M peeps in Western Wa but isolated enough for the college experience.

There was a more ideal place … Chelan

 

[Cougini5591]

I know it's blasphemy to say this but the fate was sealed when the school wasn't built in Spokane.

Incorrect