Could Jacob Eason end up at WSU?
- Thread starter PeteTheChop
- Start date
Ummmmmm.....no. It's easy to be a clever smart ass who doesn't try to make a point. Have a point that's backed by more than "SEC rulz!" and "Don't turn down talent!".
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Don't resort to straw man arguments anytime someone disagrees with you Flat.
Here's my opinion on Eason. He's got all the measurables, 6'5, 235, has a strong arm and is fairly mobile for his size. Darn near every coach in the country, including our own, wanted this guy just a year and a half ago. Since then, he won an SEC starting gig as a true freshman, led his team to 8 wins. He didn't have a great year statistically speaking, but considering he was a true frosh in a very good conference, I'd say he did pretty well. He didn't lose his job due to performance. Heck, we don't even know if he's lost the job at all.
If he decides to transfer, he'll probably have a couple dozen programs to choose from. If WSU is one of them, you absolutely hear him out. I wouldn't go as far as to guarantee him a starting job, but based on talent, he is easily worth a scholarship.
I don't know why you've made it a "QB vs DL" thing. It really doesn't have to be, and that just seems like an odd argument against bringing him in.
The only reason I would maybe consider saying no to him is if I thought it might jeopardize our stance with Camm Cooper. Other than that, I have no issue taking one less WR or DB in this class.
Don't resort to straw man arguments anytime someone disagrees with you Flat.
Here's my opinion on Eason. He's got all the measurables, 6'5, 235, has a strong arm and is fairly mobile for his size. Darn near every coach in the country, including our own, wanted this guy just a year and a half ago. Since then, he won an SEC starting gig as a true freshman, led his team to 8 wins. He didn't have a great year statistically speaking, but considering he was a true frosh in a very good conference, I'd say he did pretty well. He didn't lose his job due to performance. Heck, we don't even know if he's lost the job at all.
If he decides to transfer, he'll probably have a couple dozen programs to choose from. If WSU is one of them, you absolutely hear him out. I wouldn't go as far as to guarantee him a starting job, but based on talent, he is easily worth a scholarship.
I don't know why you've made it a "QB vs DL" thing. It really doesn't have to be, and that just seems like an odd argument against bringing him in.
The only reason I would maybe consider saying no to him is if I thought it might jeopardize our stance with Camm Cooper. Other than that, I have no issue taking one less WR or DB in this class.
Good reply and good reasoning. I still stand by the idea that we are going to be taking a flyer on someone, it should be on the DL. I've said from the get go that if Leach feels that we need to take him, I'd be happy to welcome him with open arms though.
If I have any question about Eason, it's not the greatest reflection on his character if the first thing out of everyone's mouth when it was announced that he was sidelined for a couple weeks is that he'll probably transfer if things don't go his way. Now, he's just a kid and only 19 years old, but at the same time, it feels more Peyton Benderish than Baker Mayfield at this point to me. But hey.....I could be wrong.
FWIW, the articles about him suggest that he is going to either UW or Miami, so this thread is probably pissing in the wind anyway.
You misspelled Alabama. Ain't nobody else from the SEC that has a shot, whether they were in the SEC or not.
But why is he a "flier"? Is he more of a flier than the JC WR we have committed? Or the athlete from Texas? Or that first OL commit we got? Or the RB coming off a torn ACL?
I don't think anyone would consider a former 5 star QB as the "flier" of the class when it's all said & done.
Use whatever word you want. When you look at our roster, we have the following QB's on the roster in two years in 2019 (when Eason would be relevant):
Sr: Hilinski, Tinsley, Gordon
Jr: Brink (not Alex), Eason would be here.
So: Neville, Bledsoe
Fr: Cooper
Redshirting: 2019 commit
In terms of arguing for going after Eason, we would really have only 4 legit scholarship QB's on the roster at that point. Adding Eason would put WSU back to having a scholarship QB every year. In arguing against bringing in a guy like Eason.......where's the "NEED"? One of the guys on the roster right now is going to start next year for us and despite the Benny Hill antics on Saturday, that guy is likely going to be Hilinski. Overall, Hilinski has absolutely looked the part of future stud. He wrecked Arizona and looked great against BSU. He's performed well in scrimmages as well. If not for our line sucking donkey balls, he probably would have been fine against UNR.
So, getting Eason doesn't help next year and if Hilinski ends up being the stud he's looked like at times, the only time that Eason gets on the field in 2019 is in mopup duty. If something were to happen to Hilinski, we've got a handful of other guys already on the roster to step in. You bring in Eason, and you are telling Neville and Cooper that they are going to have another guy to compete against for the starting job in 2020. Now, you'll say, "Well, if they don't have the guts to compete for the job....I don't want them". Of course, you'll say that while ignoring that Eason......if he transfers.......would have left Georgia because he wasn't willing to fight for a starting job there. If you are going to judge the guys on our current roster........why wouldn't you judge Eason for being a quitter?
So, call it what you want, but taking a guy that you don't really need just in case he turns out to be great is my definition of a flier. Does Eason have a higher ceiling than your average flier? Sure. Is added competition likely to make our QB's perform at a higher level? Probably. Does he have the potential to damage the chemistry of our QB group and encourage a younger player to transfer, thereby harming future depth? Absolutely. How many QB's do we need on the roster in 2019 and is getting a probable one year starter worth damaging your QB rotation overall? Only Leach knows for sure.
SEC football teams with NC's in the last 10 years 2007-2016:
LSU
Florida
Alabama
Auburn
Alabama
Alabama
Alabama
Now I'm no mathematician, but I think that's >25% of the teams (28%, my math friend tells me) in the conference bringing home NC hardware. Yeah, you're right, SEC sucks.
Oh yeah, my math friend also tells me that's 70% of the NC's over the last 10 years.
The top teams in the SEC always have the potential to compete for a championship. The thing is, right now (and last year), the SEC is the weakest overall that it's been in years. According to one website I checked, they went 5-6 in bowl games last year (11-14 overall) and they are 5-6 in OOC games so far this year. The ACC feasted on the SEC last year. Right now, Georgia is the only team from the SEC that looks like they might have a shot outside of Alabama. Anyone else would be a major surprise.
I don't know that that's really a ton of QB depth. Hilinski has meaningful snaps in one game. Who knows on Neville, I don't think he's even practicing right now. The rest of the guys are walk ons, then you'll have a freshman in Cooper.
Maybe Eason could beat out Hilinski, maybe not. I'd feel a whole heck of a lot better with a backup who has an entire year of playing experience at the SEC level than any of the other guys on that list though.
I agree that we don't really know if any of the backups behind Hilinski are any good. I know you are just sandbagging Hilinski for the sake of fun here.....but the guy has looked legit for the most part. If I had an issue with Hilinski, it's that he's gotta little Dave Krieg in him. Almost a hall of famer, but makes the occasional horrific mistake. I get the excitement about Eason. He could be a great addition.
I'll never understand why we overrate our backup QBs so frequently, or to such a great extent, at WSU. I'm glad we are positive on these guys, I guess, but people see them complete a few passes and act like they are "studs" who are going to lock down all-conference honors for the next three years, frightening away all would-be challengers and making it futile to try to recruit other QBs. We've done it for years. Remember when Apodaca was going to destroy the Pac-12 once he was unleashed?
As for my take, Hilinski is a great kid, based on his quotes, and had one good portion of a game against a Mountain West team that probably is pretty solid but, at best, is probably equivalent this year to a low- to mid-tier Pac-12 team, even if it has been better than that in the recent past. He looked legitimately good in that outing, other than the egregious INT, and I doubt WSU wins that game without him. Don't get me wrong ... that was a very good performance. I just don't think it should be overvalued. It's one game in which he looked like a competent QB. I didn't see anything that made it look like he's Cam Newton. I saw a kid go out there and execute some throws, even though he tended to lock onto one receiver. He appears to have a good, but not mind-blowing, arm. He has cleaned up what used to be a messy delivery.
I really like Hilinski and, based on the little we've seen (and otherwise heard in practice reports and otherwise), think he can be a good QB for us. I just don't think he has done anything that should prevent us from going out and getting a very talented former 5-star QB who started all year as a true freshman for a good program in the SEC, did pretty well (not great) and was the starter again this year until hurt. We've seen nothing from Eason that makes me think he can't be a guy who is incredibly good in the Air Raid as an upperclassman, with physical tools that would allow him to do things that nobody on our current roster could do.
Look what Boise State did with Rypien -- he was, by all accounts, a very good QB in that conference ... I'm pretty sure he was first-team all conference each of his first couple years, including as a true freshman. That didn't prevent them from going out and getting Cozart. Look at UW -- they have two studs coming in as part of the 2018 freshman class, at least for now. (And yes, I know we're not in the same position as UW in recruiting.) Just saying that having a backup QB who comes in and has a solid 2/3 of a game against Boise State doesn't mean you assume the guy is going to be an absolute monster and that we shouldn't bring in a very talented player at the position.
I would counter that I've never understood why some of our fans disrespect our players so much.
I feel comfortable allowing any reasonable, disinterested third party to look at our respective positions on this and figure out whose take is more reasonable, granting that a variety of outcomes are possible. Again, to be clear, I'm not saying that he won't become a stud. I'm just saying I don't buy into the premise that Hilinski's limited performances to date can cause us to rest assured that he'll be a "stud" to a degree that it wouldn't make sense to bring in someone like Eason as a transfer.
I *will* answer a question that neither of us was asked, though, but which dovetails with some of your prior discussion -- if given the choice of Eason or of a former 5-star DL recruit who, similarly, has done little to make us doubt he could be a very good player in a Power 5 conference, give me that DL transfer all day given what we believe we have with Hilinski and what we pretty reasonably can expect to have in Cooper (and, potentially, Neville or Bledsoe).
If you want to pine away for some kid who didn't want to be here and likely won't end up here.....go ahead. He made his choice and if wants to be a quitter and leave Georgia because he can't beat out a freshman......he isn't all that special and I don't see the benefit in bringing him in.
If you have any faith in the job that Leach is doing, I'd like to think that you feel that he is extending scholarships to guys that are worth rooting for, even if they don't have that flashy 5 star rating. It's obvious that for some people, the backup QB is the next great thing. For others, it's that guy on the other team that would be so awesome if he were only playing for us.
What's funny about this discussion is that Jake Browning came in as a true freshman at UW and was better than Eason in almost every passing category in his freshman season, but people on here always talk about how over-rated he is.....because he plays for the mutts.
If you have any faith in the job that Leach is doing, I'd like to think that you feel that he is extending scholarships to guys that are worth rooting for, even if they don't have that flashy 5 star rating. It's obvious that for some people, the backup QB is the next great thing. For others, it's that guy on the other team that would be so awesome if he were only playing for us.
What's funny about this discussion is that Jake Browning came in as a true freshman at UW and was better than Eason in almost every passing category in his freshman season, but people on here always talk about how over-rated he is.....because he plays for the mutts.
Good point regarding pining for players on other teams, given the existing point re pining for backups. That said, I root for all WSU players, regardless of their star rating, and two-stars can turn out to be very good players. I'm not going to let you try to turn what I wrote into anything to the contrary, nor into some kind of argument that Leach can't recruit legitimate Pac-12 players. That's disingenuous.
My point was, and remains, that I'm not ready to anoint Hilinski as a "stud" whose presence means we shouldn't be looking to bring in a talented QB based almost exclusively on him performing pretty well for a portion of one game against a Mountain West team. More generally, I think that although this staff can recruit competently, which I've been as big a proponent of as anyone, that doesn't mean that every player we have is so good that there aren't other players out there who could fit in the program as transfers, especially when, as is the case with Eason, he would be the lone scholarship QB in his class year. I find it almost amazing you're willing to argue the contrary, frankly. If your point is more limited and you don't want Eason, in particular, fair enough, but I find these broader generalizations you're pushing fairly surprising.
In any case, the true test will be whether Leach wants to bring Eason in, should he get the opportunity. I doubt it comes down to that. If Eason really does want to transfer, there will be a lot of schools after him.
Fair enough. I understand the perspective of having our bases covered. Utah, UCLA, Oregon and Arizona have all had seasons ruined when their starting QB went down and they didn't have a good enough backup in place. From that perspective, I absolutely get the desire to grab a guy like Eason if he's available. Why not take him?
While I see that, my viewpoint on that is slightly different (and not necessarily right) and I'll expand on it more. I like having a gap year between QB's if I feel that we've been recruiting the position well. I don't like having too many QB's because that position, more than the rest, is the most prone to seeing transfers occur if the talent stockpile gets too high. We've likely had as many QB's transfer away WSU over the past 15 years as all of the other positions combined. I hate to waste limited resources training a guy to play somewhere else. Since we can only really play one QB at a time and not rotate them, we don't "NEED" to have 3-4 guys available to play right then. If we get to the 3rd QB because of injury, we have bigger problems than our QB position.
I'm not sold on Neville being ready to take over as a redshirt junior in 2020. We certainly haven't heard anything about him to get us excited. That does make Eason more intriguing but I'm absolutely thrilled about Camm Cooper. I love the idea of him starting as a redshirt sophomore and terrorizing the league for three years. Of course, that's assuming that Neville doesn't say, "Hell no!" and keep the job for himself. My fear on bringing in Eason is that if he isn't good enough to beat out Hilinski and Neville outright, he might be just good enough to make Neville think that he should transfer, robbing us of needed depth in 2021. It's a different type of fear than you guys have. You're more worried about what happens in 2 years, I'm more worried about the long game. You prefer a system with more safety valves in place. I prefer a system where a QB gets a chance to develop under center for a couple years and be amazing as a senior.
To be honest, having that steady stream of QB's is more likely to result in that steady dependable 8-9 win success that we look to be enjoying. My perspective is more likely to result in a down year, but I believe it's also more likely to end up with a great year once in a while. It's all about what you value. I'm willing to trade an 8-5 season for a 6-7 season if it meant we'd have a better shot at an 11 or 12 win season. Leach undoubtedly leans towards your perspective of erring on the side of having a lot of QB's on the roster, although he is obviously a fan of the preferred walk-on so far.
I don't think anybody has been "pining" for other teams' players. The original post was about could JE end up here, the implicit question being should we take him. As others have pointed out, Eason had a huge upside and potential (national player of the year and 5-star recruit out of high school; all the measurables, being big, tall, and strong-armed; very respectable early college career in a tough conference by starting as a true fr and going 8-5 with a bowl win). So any logical person is saying that if course you take someone with that much potential, regardless of who is on your roster. You don't pass up a potential Ryan Leaf just because you have some other guys that also have some potential. As much as some want to make it out to be, the question has never been whether the kid's performance isn't that impressive (it is, and the proof is asking yourself what we'd be saying about a Coug true Freshman QBthat went 8-5 and took us to a win in a bowl game--took Falk 3 years to get us to a bowl and a W) or whether the SEC is any good (it is, as evidenced by 7 NCs by 4 different teams over last 10 years).
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Flat, the problem with a Gap year is almost means you as a staff have to be 100% right in your talent evaluation. Take Tyler Bruggman. Peyton Bender. You just never know what happens at that position.
In terms of taking a flyer on a DT I am with you. But you don't pass up on a flyer with a 5 star DT or a 5 star QB if the opportunity presents itself.
The reason Price was so inconsistent is because he did have gap years at QB. Not intentional but QB's don't want to sit behind the first pick in the draft and the second pick in draft for potentially three years.
I agree that evaluation is a huge deal and a big reason why any kind of gap can be a problem. A gap year can burn you if you missed on your evaluation of a young QB. FWIW, Bender may not be the best example on evaluation. He is slinging the ball like crazy down at KU right now. Through four games, he is on track to challenge for the school record for single season passing yards even though his team sucks. Bender is the best example of why you don't bring in someone like Eason but also why you should. Bender would probably be doing fine as our QB if Falk weren't here after walking on. There's no doubt that we are extremely happy that we brought in Falk who ran Bender off. So again, it's all in what you feel about the guys we have. If you aren't sold on Neville and Cooper, it makes sense.
We went after Blake Barnett so I am not sure why we wouldn't go after Eason if for some reason he decided to transfer and was interested in coming to WSU. I don't see why also going after a DT has anything to do with the most important position on the field but we obviously could use more DTs.
Didn't Bender flunked out and go to a JC to get his academic house in order? I don't think Falk exactly ran him off or Leach wanted him gone. Personally if somehow Eason or any other QB decided to transfer to WSU leading to someone else transferring that's ok. We lost Bruggman to his college roadshow and things seemed to have worked out ok without him on the roster.
What is amazing Bruggman quit/left Montana State on May 2nd,and is now at his 4th school. The old grass is greener thing.
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I only mention DT because it's obviously a huge concern over the next several years.
I am definitely concerned at DT but nothing is exactly set at QB just because we have a pipeline. I like Hilinski's potential but he's unproven, Neville/Bledsoe are redshirting and Cooper hasn't even signed. QB is the most important position on the field. Competition is good at all positions.
You drinking at work? Bruggman was in College Station, Texas long before we played Montana State.
FWIW, David Cornwell (former Alabama QB and #3 QB overall) just left Nevada after he was unable to win the starting role there. A waste of time and money for UNR and another kid looking for an opportunity. Just because a guy is 6'5", highly rated and spent a season in the SEC doesn't mean that he is destined for greatness. Eason had experience playing at Georgia and Cornwell didn't, but still.....rankings and hype aren't everything. I wouldn't turn Eason down if he came looking, but I'd make sure that I had every other position sealed up first.
WSU didn't look at Cornwell as far as I know about transferring to WSU. Barnett took a visit and was down to us and ASU. I'll trust the staff didn't believe Barnett was just any 6'5" highly rated guy that spent a season (2) in the SEC. Eason won the starting job at Georgia and got hurt.
Hmmm...define drinking? Or maybe I am simply drinking and not at work today? Define "long before".
I have no idea what goes through your head sometimes. You take the three seconds to look up when Bruggman left Montana State and compare it to when we played Montana State, then compare it to your inaccurate statement about Bruggman leaving / "quitting" after WSU beat them. Let us see what you were thinking.
Well I can explain what goes through my head. After the MSU game I was going through some online "stuff" and read a headline. Truth be told the meat of my post was about kids transferring to seek playing time and it rarely works out. Almost a month ago I saw this headline and the date on the headline. No I don't follow Bruggman as closely as you do.
I guess the moral of the story other than the grass isn't always greener, double check headlines before posting about other back up qb's who may not even transfer.....
- Quarterback Bruggman leaving Montana State | Bobcats ...
www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sports/bobcats/football/quarterback...
Sep 13, 2017 · Montana State announced Tuesday that quarterback Tyler Bruggman is among four players leaving the program.
When I don't follow things that closely -- or, at least, closely enough to state something accurately, I just don't add my opinion to the steaming pile of ignorance that's already out there. Bruggman announced he was leaving in the spring, and there were a lot of posts about him winding up at A&M here and all other places you'd expect (Brand X, Brand Y, Twitter, etc.)
It was known earlier in the summer that he was winding up at A&M. See, e,g., http://www.montanasports.com/2017/0...bruggman-reportedly-to-suit-up-with-texas-am/.
I appreciate the information. My post been updated. Not sure how it materially changes my grass is greener post, but it is now correct in the dates he left and he is on to his 5th program .
Haha. You posted something that was just flat-out wrong. First, you tried to make it seem like I had some unusual amount of information on Bruggman (I didn't), and second, you're now trying to say that the inaccurate point you made was immaterial. Just don't post inaccurate bullshit.
Well that is an interesting take. I didn't try to make it sound like you had an unusual amount information about Bruggman. You simply had accurate info from the web and I read a headline from with a date past our first game.
Second, what point do you believe I was trying to make? What difference does it make whether Bruggman left in May, June, July, August or September? I ma just curious what date the Bruggman leaves Montana has to do with the Jake Heaps of 2017? Bruggman left WSU for greener pastures. He then left Louisville, then went to a junior college, off to MSU, got beat out and now is at Texas A and M. Not sure he made the right decision in leaving, thus the greener pastures comment. Maybe leaving May vs September somehow alters that comment and point. Maybe I just don't see time being part of the equation.
Dude, you were wrong. You posted inaccurate information and were called on it. You. Wrong. Just own it. We don't need a five-post subthread on this.
If the (inaccurate) information wasn't material to your point, don't write it. Again, not hard.
I'm sorry to interrupt a couple of posters pissing on each other's shoes.
I'll throw out (if it isn't too late on this thread) the idea that we need to take a HS QB every year. If they all end up somewhat similar to what was expected from a talent standpoint, are mentally stable, and keep their grades up, then that strategy works fine as-is. If 50% of the kids turn out to be busts (and the percentage across the PAC is probably greater than 50%), then you need the occasional transfer or walk on. It is hard to find a reliable JC QB transfer. They exist, but the odds are worse than with the HS kids. So a lower classification 4 year school QB, or a QB at a power 5 school who lost his job, are pretty much what makes sense when the occasional back-to-back year's HS QB's go bust and you need a transfer. The other approach (used consistently by Leach) is to have walk on QB's. Consistent walk on's at QB from a strategy standpoint is almost a wash with the occasional JC transfer QB, without the cost of the scholie.
I'll throw out (if it isn't too late on this thread) the idea that we need to take a HS QB every year. If they all end up somewhat similar to what was expected from a talent standpoint, are mentally stable, and keep their grades up, then that strategy works fine as-is. If 50% of the kids turn out to be busts (and the percentage across the PAC is probably greater than 50%), then you need the occasional transfer or walk on. It is hard to find a reliable JC QB transfer. They exist, but the odds are worse than with the HS kids. So a lower classification 4 year school QB, or a QB at a power 5 school who lost his job, are pretty much what makes sense when the occasional back-to-back year's HS QB's go bust and you need a transfer. The other approach (used consistently by Leach) is to have walk on QB's. Consistent walk on's at QB from a strategy standpoint is almost a wash with the occasional JC transfer QB, without the cost of the scholie.
Without a doubt, a guy like Bledsoe is offered a preferred walk-on with the understanding that he will be given a scholarship if he earns it.
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