David Shaw is cleaning house at Stanford

[dgibbons]

Lets start with the OSU game. Which dlineman did it hit? Kwete? Are you really making the argument they had the HANDS team up on that?

Well it wasn't a defensive linemen. It was a linebacker, and it may have hit two guys. I'm not making the argument that they had the hands team on the field. You're making the argument that ST were not prepared. I'm pointing out the obvious evidence to the contrary.

 

[BiggsCoug]

So, what's your argument here?

Do you think the ST coach told him to kick it to the 3? Or, do you think he just didn't get a hold of one?

If it's the former, then yea, that's really stupid and the ST coach needs to answer for that. If it's the latter, then that's on the kid, although every kicker in the world kicks one to the 3 at times. Can't blame the ST coach for that.

If the ST coach told him not to kick it into the endzone, fire him.

If the kid just didnt get it done, he failed. He has no one defending his kick, he has all the time he needs, run up and kick it deep. Competitive greatness ~ being at your best when your best is needed. Didnt happen. 36 yard return. Oregon has 1 min. Cougs lose.

In a season where WSU needed to be at its best with coaching and playing, they failed.

Poor play calling, refusal to run the ball, bad kick and punt teams, atrocious turn overs, etc. The last time I saw a WSU team under achieve this badly was 2005. Unacceptable.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Lets start with the OSU game. Which dlineman did it hit? Kwete? Are you really making the argument they had the HANDS team up on that?

It was Rogers. And why would they have their hands team in with 7:30 to go in the game?

 

[dgibbons]

If the ST coach told him not to kick it into the endzone, fire him.

If the kid just didnt get it done, he failed. He has no one defending his kick, he has all the time he needs, run up and kick it deep. Competitive greatness ~ being at your best when your best is needed. Didnt happen. 36 yard return. Oregon has 1 min. Cougs lose.

In a season where WSU needed to be at its best with coaching and playing, they failed.

Poor play calling, refusal to run the ball, bad kick and punt teams, atrocious turn overs, etc. The last time I saw a WSU team under achieve this badly was 2005. Unacceptable.

Given the ineptitude of the defense, how do you consider this underachievement? They did qualify for a bowl game.

The defense was 94th in scoring defense, 113th in total defense, 97th in 3rd down defense. That's where games were won and lost. Even a middling defense gets one more stop in the game would have made a difference against UCLA, ASU and Oregon.

 

[dgibbons]

It was Rogers. And why would they have their hands team in with 7:30 to go in the game?

The box score credits Rogers with a fumble, but it definitely bounced off Brown's foot or leg.

Smith rolled the dice and Oregon State made a play. Using that play to show there was a "mixed bag" is ludicrous.

 

[CougEd]

Well it wasn't a defensive linemen. It was a linebacker, and it may have hit two guys. I'm not making the argument that they had the hands team on the field. You're making the argument that ST were not prepared. I'm pointing out the obvious evidence to the contrary.

Being prepared IS having your hands team out there. It doesn't go off a "linebacker" if they have the hands team out there. Next?

 

[dgibbons]

Being prepared IS having your hands team out there. It doesn't go off a "linebacker" if they have the hands team out there. Next?

You are doing nothing more than using 20/20 hindsight and results of one play to claim. That has nothing to do with preparation. You're talking about execution.

And I guess in order to be "prepared", they should have had the hands team out there for every kick off.

 

[dgibbons]

Being prepared IS having your hands team out there. It doesn't go off a "linebacker" if they have the hands team out there. Next?

You are doing nothing more than using 20/20 hindsight and results of one play to claim. That has nothing to do with preparation. You're talking about execution.

 

[etowncoug]

Being prepared IS having your hands team out there. It doesn't go off a "linebacker" if they have the hands team out there. Next?

If we run their hands team out there and OSU kicks it deep, we don't have blockers to set up a return. You'd rip the coaching in that situation as well (and you'd be right). All you can do is tell your kids to be on the lookout for something tricky and hope they execute. Ultimately, we got unlucky on the execution. Oregon St tries that ten more times and we recover it.

The Oregon game is more of a gripe, but only if you don't think the orders weren't to kick the ball out of the endzone. I think Crane was supposed to boot it deep but on a cold night wasn't able to.
Sometimes even good coaching results in bad outcomes.

 

[dgibbons]

If we run their hands team out there and OSU kicks it deep, we don't have blockers to set up a return. You'd rip the coaching in that situation as well (and you'd be right). All you can do is tell your kids to be on the lookout for something tricky and hope they execute. Ultimately, we got unlucky on the execution. Oregon St tries that ten more times and we recover it.

The Oregon game is more of a gripe, but only if you don't think the orders weren't to kick the ball out of the endzone. I think Crane was supposed to boot it deep but on a cold night wasn't able to.
Sometimes even good coaching results in bad outcomes.

Exactly. Ed is using 20/20 hindsight.

And of course like five guys missed tackles on Oregon's return guy. I guess those guys were't prepare either.

 

[etowncoug]

Exactly. Ed is using 20/20 hindsight.

And of course like five guys missed tackles on Oregon's return guy. I guess those guys were't prepare either.

It's a sound strategy to just boot the ball out of the endzone and not risk the return. I think we tried and failed as none of our kicks had been going for touchbacks all night. The irony is we are crying over 14 yds when Oregon had all their timeouts and moved the ball without resistance. They march down and score regardless of the kick.

 

[dgibbons]

It's a sound strategy to just boot the ball out of the endzone and not risk the return. I think we tried and failed as none of our kicks had been going for touchbacks all night. The irony is we are crying over 14 yds when Oregon had all their timeouts and moved the ball without resistance. They march down and score regardless of the kick.

Well, some people here believe that the offense and the ST left the defense jammed up all season....

 

[Fab5Coug]

Being prepared IS having your hands team out there. It doesn't go off a "linebacker" if they have the hands team out there. Next?

This is just intellectually dishonest.

 

[CougEd]

You are doing nothing more than using 20/20 hindsight and results of one play to claim. That has nothing to do with preparation. You're talking about execution.

And I guess in order to be "prepared", they should have had the hands team out there for every kick off.

Actually it isn’t 20/20 hindsight . I said it at the time . You have seven minutes left. They can’t stop WSU . Even if they do stop WSU WSU’s burns off 2 to 3 minutes . That leaves osu needing two scores to tie, and probably a drive if at least 70 yards and if they get the most certain onside kick it is 50 yards.

OSU probably needs three possession cause WSU is either going to score or move the ball.

Why it didn’t come out if no where -One he worked for Peterson, a guy who is known for that stuff, two, the clock and score was getting to point you need to make something happened, 3) tell me even if they have the hands team out there just as an insurance policy , what does it hurt? The down side is much greater than the upside ?

 

[CougEd]

This is just intellectually dishonest.

BS.

 

[dgibbons]

Actually it isn’t 20/20 hindsight . I said it at the time . You have seven minutes left. They can’t stop WSU . Even if they do stop WSU WSU’s burns off 2 to 3 minutes . That leaves osu needing two scores to tie, and probably a drive if at least 70 yards and if they get the most certain onside kick it is 50 yards.

OSU probably needs three possession cause WSU is either going to score or move the ball.

Why it didn’t come out if no where -One he worked for Peterson, a guy who is known for that stuff, two, the clock and score was getting to point you need to make something happened, 3) tell me even if they have the hands team out there just as an insurance policy , what does it hurt? The down side is much greater than the upside ?

Said it to who? Your imaginary friends?

Sure, put the hands team out there. Then OSU goes for the pooch instead.

 

[Fab5Coug]

BS.

So you're actually trying to argue Brock should have had his hands team on the field, with 7:30 remaining, in a 3 point game.

I don't believe you. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Actually it isn’t 20/20 hindsight . I said it at the time . You have seven minutes left. They can’t stop WSU . Even if they do stop WSU WSU’s burns off 2 to 3 minutes . That leaves osu needing two scores to tie, and probably a drive if at least 70 yards and if they get the most certain onside kick it is 50 yards.

OSU probably needs three possession cause WSU is either going to score or move the ball.

Why it didn’t come out if no where -One he worked for Peterson, a guy who is known for that stuff, two, the clock and score was getting to point you need to make something happened, 3) tell me even if they have the hands team out there just as an insurance policy , what does it hurt? The down side is much greater than the upside ?

No you didn't.

 

[dgibbons]

So you're actually trying to argue Brock should have had his hands team on the field, with 7:30 remaining, in a 3 point game.

I don't believe you. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Cause obviously if the hands team had been on the field the line drive kick would not have ricocheted off anyone and would not have been recovered by OSU.

 

[fingerdisco]

So you're actually trying to argue Brock should have had his hands team on the field, with 7:30 remaining, in a 3 point game.

I don't believe you. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If Ed walked into a bum drinking Mad Dog 20:20 he’d argue with him that Thunderbird is the best fortified wino serum.

 

[dgibbons]

Recruits seem to like Brock.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/16/washington-states-cloudy-future-on-defense-hasnt-i/

 

[CougEd]

If we run their hands team out there and OSU kicks it deep, we don't have blockers to set up a return. You'd rip the coaching in that situation as well (and you'd be right). All you can do is tell your kids to be on the lookout for something tricky and hope they execute. Ultimately, we got unlucky on the execution. Oregon St tries that ten more times and we recover it.

The Oregon game is more of a gripe, but only if you don't think the orders weren't to kick the ball out of the endzone. I think Crane was supposed to boot it deep but on a cold night wasn't able to.
Sometimes even good coaching results in bad outcomes.

OMG. You call a fair catch. You get the ball at the 25.

 

[CougEd]

No you didn't.

No I didn't what?

 

[etowncoug]

OMG. You call a fair catch. You get the ball at the 25.

Which you'd criticize them for doing.

 

[CougEd]

Said it to who? Your imaginary friends?

Sure, put the hands team out there. Then OSU goes for the pooch instead.

Actually very real friends. It is simple math....you prepare for that because they have made you punt one time. Once. They need more possessions than you. They couldn't stop WSU. If we don't turn the ball over we at least get a fg, or an attempt at a fg. That leaves them less than four minutes on the clock. Beavs score in three minutes, we still get one more possession than they do.

Smith made probably one mistake and that was not punting it.

Is it egregious for the ST coach not to have the hands team out there? No. Worth firing over? No. But that on-sides kick fairly late in the game and not thinking it was a POSSIBILITY given the fact they made us punt once, and when we weren't coughing it up we were scoring or drove to be in a position to score.

Not all that different than when UW in the 2010 Apple Cup fake punts it. WSU was clueless what was happening even though in the case of the 2010 Apple Cup it was way more obvious what was happening than what happened against OSU.

 

[CougEd]

Which you'd criticize them for doing.

Why would I do that? You posses the ball odds are you win cause they can't stop you.

 

[CougEd]

Cause obviously if the hands team had been on the field the line drive kick would not have ricocheted off anyone and would not have been recovered by OSU.

They are on the hands team for a reason. Just like a shortstop plays shortstop for a reason.

 

[dgibbons]

Actually very real friends. It is simple math....you prepare for that because they have made you punt one time. Once. They need more possessions than you. They couldn't stop WSU. If we don't turn the ball over we at least get a fg, or an attempt at a fg. That leaves them less than four minutes on the clock. Beavs score in three minutes, we still get one more possession than they do.

Smith made probably one mistake and that was not punting it.

Is it egregious for the ST coach not to have the hands team out there? No. Worth firing over? No. But that on-sides kick fairly late in the game and not thinking it was a POSSIBILITY given the fact they made us punt once, and when we weren't coughing it up we were scoring or drove to be in a position to score.

Not all that different than when UW in the 2010 Apple Cup fake punts it. WSU was clueless what was happening even though in the case of the 2010 Apple Cup it was way more obvious what was happening than what happened against OSU.

Well, since OSU forced two turnovers and forced WSU to kick a field goal which was missed, your math and your logic are broken.

And since we're talking about the hands team here, you believe that the hands team would have successfully fielded a line drive kick from 10 yards away. That's what your whole nonsensical argument is based on.

You don't understand the difference between lack of execution and lack of preparation.

 

[CougEd]

Well, since OSU forced two turnovers and forced WSU to kick a field goal which was missed, your math and your logic are broken.

And since we're talking about the hands team here, you believe that the hands team would have successfully fielded a line drive kick from 10 yards away. That's what your whole nonsensical argument is based on.

You don't understand the difference between lack of execution and lack of preparation.

There are several ways to attempt a onsides kick. Part of teh reason it did bounce off a lack because they weren't expecting it. Late in the game you should expect the unexpected. And in terms of probability, the hands team has a much stronger probability of fielding it. Are you really denying that? And if the hands team is out there and they bungle it it then is failed execution.

The likelihood of OSU blocking another kick is really low, so why did WSU do the smart thing and go into the victory formation after Borghi scored, because after all if they block the kick and return it for a TD it is about execution, correct?

 

[dgibbons]

There are several ways to attempt a onsides kick. Part of teh reason it did bounce off a lack because they weren't expecting it. Late in the game you should expect the unexpected. And in terms of probability, the hands team has a much stronger probability of fielding it. Are you really denying that? And if the hands team is out there and they bungle it it then is failed execution.

The likelihood of OSU blocking another kick is really low, so why did WSU do the smart thing and go into the victory formation after Borghi scored, because after all if they block the kick and return it for a TD it is about execution, correct?

What I'm denying is that there was a lack of preparation on that play. If you don't understand that, you obviously are not reading.

You're comparing a special teams play with one second left on the clock, while WSU is ahead by one point, where you could literally lose the game if the XP is blocked to not having the hands team on the field with 7:30 to go. Let that sink in.

We all know there are several ways to attempt an onside kick. Some of them have been brought up in this thread.

OSU did not block any kicks in that game, so OSU could not have blocked another kick.

What's really hilarious is that there was a much better example of lack of preparation in that game. Can you find it Ed?

 

[CougEd]

What I'm denying is that there was a lack of preparation on that play. If you don't understand that, you obviously are not reading.

You're comparing a special teams play with one second left on the clock, while WSU is ahead by one point, where you could literally lose the game if the XP is blocked to not having the hands team on the field with 7:30 to go. Let that sink in.

We all know there are several ways to attempt an onside kick. Some of them have been brought up in this thread.

OSU did not block any kicks in that game, so OSU could not have blocked another kick.

What's really hilarious is that there was a much better example of lack of preparation in that game. Can you find it Ed?

Of course there was a much higher chance that OSU would on side kick there because they couldn't stop us. We punted one time. ONCE. If we don't fumble get the ball picked we may have scored 70. They had no defensive answer. So it was at 730, in terms of stopping us and needing an extra possession this was a the perfect time to try and steal one. For OSU at 730 with how we moved the ball it was even later in the game because of how the offense moved.

 

[etowncoug]

Of course there was a much higher chance that OSU would on side kick there because they couldn't stop us. We punted one time. ONCE. If we don't fumble get the ball picked we may have scored 70. They had no defensive answer. So it was at 730, in terms of stopping us and needing an extra possession this was a the perfect time to try and steal one. For OSU at 730 with how we moved the ball it was even later in the game because of how the offense moved.

OSU stopped us 5 times. Not once.

 

[CougEd]

OSU stopped us 5 times. Not once.

Just out of curiosity are you really including the plays where we shoot ourselves in the foot and fumble or throw a pick?

 

[dgibbons]

Of course there was a much higher chance that OSU would on side kick there because they couldn't stop us. We punted one time. ONCE. If we don't fumble get the ball picked we may have scored 70. They had no defensive answer. So it was at 730, in terms of stopping us and needing an extra possession this was a the perfect time to try and steal one. For OSU at 730 with how we moved the ball it was even later in the game because of how the offense moved.

So you can't find that other play.

 

[etowncoug]

Just out of curiosity are you really including the plays where we shoot ourselves in the foot and fumble or throw a pick?

They count as stops.

 

[CougEd]

They count as stops.

Oh...so when Patman gets hit the hands without a defender around him OSU STOPPEd us? Ok. When Leach says we stopped ourselves I will make sure i remember what etowncoug wrote....

 

[etowncoug]

Oh...so when Patman gets hit the hands without a defender around him OSU STOPPEd us? Ok. When Leach says we stopped ourselves I will make sure i remember what etowncoug wrote....

You are ignoring the context. Getting the ball on the 25 with 7 minutes left is no guarantee that we were going to score. You say that OSU had only stopped us once ignoring the forced fumble, two picks, and missed FG. The point is we weren't guaranteed to go down and score.

 

[dgibbons]

Oh...so when Patman gets hit the hands without a defender around him OSU STOPPEd us? Ok. When Leach says we stopped ourselves I will make sure i remember what etowncoug wrote....

Well, it still counts as a stop since Oregon State took the ball away.

Apparently CougEd is declaring as an Iron Law that WSU would not have turned the ball over again, despite two turnovers at that point in the game. Obviously, the coaches should have seen the onside kick coming as Ed told everyone within earshot....

 

[etowncoug]

Well, it still counts as a stop since Oregon State took the ball away.

Apparently CougEd is declaring as an Iron Law that WSU would not have turned the ball over again, despite two turnovers at that point in the game. Obviously, the coaches should have seen the onside kick coming as Ed told everyone within earshot....

The "I saw the onside kick coming" lie is especially bold. Sounds like Ed is upset folks were starting to think he might not be the biggest idiot on this board and wanted to reclaim his crown.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Mods, can we get a "douche bag" button installed right next to the "like" button?