Deone Bucannon has a ring
- Thread starter dgibbons
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Reid needs to sign more than 2 OL per class.
Mahomes was let down by his whole team. The doink off the face mask after Mahomes somehow threw an impossible 35 yard strike into the endzone as he was falling on his face was a game changer. Idiots on the Chief's defense letting the Bucs get to the endzone late in the 2nd quarter because of dumb penalties was bad too.
Two plays were the primary difference in that game. Don't give up a first down because of a dumb defensive holding penalty and catch the damned ball and it would have been a 24-16 game with the ball in Mahomes' hands late in the game with people calling it one of the great games all time. Instead.......meh.
Football is so damned fickle.
As to the other comments...yeah, the Chiefs obviously need to take 5-6 OL per year too.
I thought the game was lost when Andy Reid kept calling timeouts at the end of the first half when TB was willing to just run out the clock and go into the half with a 14-6 lead. That gave Brady the opportunity to throw the long pass that led to the questionable (IMO) pass interference on the Chiefs. Another PI call on the very next play led to an easy TD with just 6 seconds left and a 21-6 halftime lead.
It was a combination of a lot of things. TB played a great, great game with a sound defensive plan. Reid and Bienemy did nothing to help mitigate the porous offensive line (how about bringing in a second TE to double team Barrett or Jason Pierre-Paul? That would give Mahomes maybe a little more time to find Kelce and Hill). And yes, a couple of dropped passes on incredible efforts by Mahomes. His team did not help him at all.
And finally, I have to wonder if the car crash involving Reid's son, and the resulting life threatening injuries to the little girl, has a big impact on the team's psyche. At the very least, it seemed to affect the HC and maybe the team takes its cue from the Big Guy. Andy didn't look like he was mentally or emotionally there last night.
Glad Cougar
It was a combination of a lot of things. TB played a great, great game with a sound defensive plan. Reid and Bienemy did nothing to help mitigate the porous offensive line (how about bringing in a second TE to double team Barrett or Jason Pierre-Paul? That would give Mahomes maybe a little more time to find Kelce and Hill). And yes, a couple of dropped passes on incredible efforts by Mahomes. His team did not help him at all.
And finally, I have to wonder if the car crash involving Reid's son, and the resulting life threatening injuries to the little girl, has a big impact on the team's psyche. At the very least, it seemed to affect the HC and maybe the team takes its cue from the Big Guy. Andy didn't look like he was mentally or emotionally there last night.
Glad Cougar
I thought the chiefs offensive game plan seemed out of whack considering what I’ve watched from them. Usually its Fly sweeps with their speedsters, play action, TE screens, deep balls to Hill. No team spreads the field vertically and horizontally like they do. Starting two new tackles was the obvious killer. I don’t think Reid had any confidence those guys could hold up for the time it takes for some of those plays to develop and he was probably right. I guess when you spend money all over the place like KC has it doesn’t give you much opportunity to budget for depth. As good as the Chiefs are those backup tackles wouldn’t crack a two deep on most NFL rosters. Too bad, probably would have been a helluva game if they had their starters.
For all the discussion of the QB's, that was not IMHO anywhere close to being the deciding factor. Mahomes did all he could with mediocre pass protection and receivers who collectively had one of their worst games of the season. The KC O coaching staff has to look in the mirror today. Just how many DB blitzes should the other team be able to pull off? The KC D did OK; you don't get goal line stands in many superbowls, and at that point I thought KC might snap out of it and start playing the football that got them to the superbowl in the first place. But, no, that did not happen. At the other end of the spectrum, Tampa's D (who was clearly the MVP unit for the game) did everything that you could ask of them. Their back 7 even held receivers less than the KC D, who at times looked scared to try to play straight up D. I was not aware that the KC DB's were that weak, but they looked outclassed...the holding was blatant and excessive, and the penalties hurt them.
If I am KC, my draft picks are concentrated on O line and D backs.
If I am KC, my draft picks are concentrated on O line and D backs.
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Also, I think Tony Romo is a terrible analyst. Why he still has the #1 job is beyond me.
They are also paying Mahomes $50 mill, so that’s not the last game he will play where he will have to do everything himself with a couple of key players on the shelf with injuries. Comes with the territory of taking up that kind of cap space, Hawks are in the same spot with Russell. You’re just going to be thin in some areas and hope to avoid injuries.
As a big KC fan, I'm sure I see what I want to see....but I will disagree that the holding calls were blatant and excessive. The one called on the play that resulted in Matthieu's interception was arguably "ticky-tacky", and could be called numerous times in any game but usually isn't. The pass interference on Breeland just before halftime was very questionable and greatly oversold by the acting job performance by the Bucs receiver. (Also questionable whether that pass was catchable). Nonetheless, I won't argue that Tampa Bay totally outplayed KC in all aspects of the game....especially at the coaching level. No Chiefs adjustments to help mitigate the OL problems and the timeouts called by Reid when TB was running out the clock in the first half were egregious.
If I am KC, my draft picks are concentrated on O line and LBs. They could use another DB among their picks, but they really desperately need OLs and more athleticism at linebacker. The guys they have at LB right now don't have the speed and quickness to cover the necessary ground in a 4-2-5 defensive alignment.
Glad Cougar
Didn't watch the game. But your descriptions of a good QB left hanging in the breeze by lack of a functional OL reminded me of another QB that we are familiar with. Maybe that other guy would not be another Mahomes but he might well put up results indicative of a quality QB if given the chance.
That's the problem with the NFL, when you pay a QB 35-50 million a year, you have to cut corners somewhere to make the salary cap work. OL is one of the first places they cut. I am not a Brady fan, but I'll give him credit for accepting less pay over the years, so they could put better players on the field around him. Here are the highest paid QB's in the league, the past 5 years are Mahomes and Goff are the only ones in a SB. You need a good QB to get their, but it's still a team game.
- Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes: $45 million.
- Texans QB Deshaun Watson: $39 million.
- Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $35 million.
- Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $34 million.
- Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $33.5 million.
- Rams QB Jared Goff: $33.5 million.
Totally agree with you. But if you also notice the list, each one of those teams/QBs has been in the playoffs and has had a reasonable shot at getting to the Super Bowl. You need the complete team to be in the SB, but you most likely need a very good QB just to have a chance.
For the Chiefs sake (and Seahawks & everyone else, for that matter), it would be wise to protect the investment made at QB by having the best offensive line they can possibly put together.
Glad Cougar
This is certainly the approach I would take. You have a franchise QB your priority positions are tackles and center. Guards are plentiful and play a bigger role in the run game so you can get away with a couple of average or younger players there. Taking that approach, you are going to have to outscore a lot of teams with a resource depleted defense. But at least your 50 million QB isn’t going to be maimed.
Everyone agrees that it's a team sport and you need to spend money on the entire team. Frankly, I'm not a fan of guys like Mahomes who feel the need to sign the largest contract ever to secure more money than he and his entire family can spend in multiple lifetimes. Personally, I've taken pay cuts so that my co-workers could get raises, so f#ck those guys who don't understand helping others.
Annoyance with athlete greed aside, there is no doubt that the guy under center is almost always more important than the other 21 guys on the field by a large margin. We don't go to the Rose Bowl in 1997 without Ryan Leaf. We don't go to the Rose Bowl in 2002 without Jason Gesser. We don't go 11-2 in 2018 without Gardner Minshew. No offense to everyone else on those teams.....but any one guy at any other position was replaceable.
I just find it laughable that fans are so quick to yell, "But....but...but!" in their desire to diminish the accomplishments of players who prove themselves to be truly great. I am looking forward to Brady's retirement, but I respect the dude's accomplishments. No offense to Bledsoe, but the Patriots would never have had the success they did without Brady. Drew set the table by taking a smaller contract so that they could afford a good o-line, but he was no Tom Brady. That's not an insult, that's just how good Brady is.
It’s interesting to me that Russell is now publicly sharing frustration about getting hit too much. For a guy who lives in cliches, this is new territory for him and a bit of a slippery slope for all of the reasons you mention above. I like Russell even though I’m not a hawks fan, but I’m of the opinion that as a franchise QB maximizing your earnings and taking up a huge percentage of your teams cap you should understand what comes with that territory. You have a greater responsibility to make up for a lack of talent around you. And as you said, if you want to take a paycut so your team can put some better talent around you (and many veteran QBs have done this) then you can bitch if your team mismanages those resources and you are still getting killed.
I picked TB in this game because of how their d took the Packers milk money
I certainly didn't expect it to turn out like this ..but found out later the Chiefs offensive line compromised since training camp. It didn't show until Sunday.
Chiefs will be fine. Get healthy on the o-line...and don't play like you went to the Dancing Bare the night before
I certainly didn't expect it to turn out like this ..but found out later the Chiefs offensive line compromised since training camp. It didn't show until Sunday.
Chiefs will be fine. Get healthy on the o-line...and don't play like you went to the Dancing Bare the night before
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Brady’s done the math. Play 10 years at $35M and get the shyt beat out of you or play 20 years at $25M per.
I thought he figured it out by marrying Giselle.
Mahomes is still young. It wouldn't surprise me to see him take a pay cut at some point in order to maintain a viable contender and his own health.
Glad Cougar
Well, getting chased around the field at the Super Bowl should certainly be the start of that conversation. I will say that watching Mahomes throw a 35 yard dime into the endzone as he was falling on his face was one of the most incredible plays that I've ever seen. Too bad his receiver let the ball bounce off his face mask.
Had it been completed, as it should have been, it would have been the highlight of the SB despite the lopsided final score. Simply amazing.
Glad Cougar
Their worst game of the season. How do your receivers as a group have their worst game of the season in the super bowl?
I haven't watched KC all year, but from what I saw on Sunday I'm not even sure how they got to the Super Bowl.
Both of their tackles were horrible. And once they got beat, they just turned and watched. The level of effort from receivers was poor...I saw WRs breaking off routes and/or jogging them before halftime. Nobody was coming back to help. Defense wasn't a whole lot better, especially in the secondary.
In spite of the string of blowouts I watched through HS and college, for some reason I still expect more from a Super Bowl. I think what was most disappointing in this one is that I don't really even think TB had to play that well to win. They really didn't do anything special, they were just ready to play - and KC wasn't.
OL was an injury thing.
I saw Hill stand and watch as Kelce was weaving his way down field, it was pathetic. That reeks of lack of leadership, but what do I know?
Games like that have a way of exposing teams who are a helluva lot of talent, but also shit for character. When things weren’t going their way with their tackles out and Mahomes under fire, some of those prima Dona Punks that love talking smack and acting like assholes packed it in (Kelcey, Hill, etc). The way Mahomes was battling they should have been able to stay in it but because it wasn’t easy they lost interest.
Kelce had 10 catches for 133 yards. He dropped a crucial (at the time) 3rd down pass in the first half but was one of the Chiefs who played hard the entire game. I've never seen him pack it in. As for "shit for character", Kelce won this year's Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award that recognizes a player's volunteer and charity work.
Glad Cougar
I wouldn't characterize the Kansas City Chiefs as a team without character. Battered OL and the Reid situation would be enough to knock any team out of sync. Instead of getting to focus on the game, Andy Reid had to deal with questions about his brother and worry if a family member was going to end up being a murderer. It's easy to say that he should be professional to focus and ignore the noise....but we're all human.
If I had a criticism of Kansas City (living in Kansas), it was all the smug, entitled a-holes that felt that their team was unbeatable. KC is good and Mahomes should retire as one of the great ones, but an occasional kick in the nuts to remind a person about vulnerability is a good thing.
That's a fair assessment. I don't think KC fans are all that different from other fans whose teams win a Super Bowl and in a position to go back-to-back. If Tampa Bay goes back to the big game next year, you'll see their fans with the same attitude.
By the way, it's Andy Reid's son, not brother, who is in trouble. There's no doubt that Andy was distracted and not the same while coaching that game.
Glad Cougar
Yeah.....screwed that one up. Definitely his son. You'd think I'd know better.
Brady has never passed the eyeball test for me - I thought it was always Emperor Belichick, plus Gronk & Edelman - but it's become impossible to deny he's the GOAT, at least on paper. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if HE wasn't the brains behind all those NE gameplans that completely neutralized whatever team they were playing.
PS People armchairing this from the KC perspective all seem to have watched a different game than I did. The anger at KC and talk of injuries just sounds like sour grapes to me; can we give the Bucs credit?
Both teams came out with a great game plan, and when the other made adjustments, only one team was able to adapt. I thought KC looked good on defense out of the gates, but so did the Bucs. Bucs adjusted their offense accordingly and KC's offense only had Plan A: feed Tyreek & Kelce, scramble Mahomes when they're covered. Bucs did a great job defending all those options, thereby reducing KC to an ordinary-looking offense.
PS People armchairing this from the KC perspective all seem to have watched a different game than I did. The anger at KC and talk of injuries just sounds like sour grapes to me; can we give the Bucs credit?
Both teams came out with a great game plan, and when the other made adjustments, only one team was able to adapt. I thought KC looked good on defense out of the gates, but so did the Bucs. Bucs adjusted their offense accordingly and KC's offense only had Plan A: feed Tyreek & Kelce, scramble Mahomes when they're covered. Bucs did a great job defending all those options, thereby reducing KC to an ordinary-looking offense.
Its because one team looked like they never got off the plane. The only OL performance I've seen that bad has been out of Seattle, and when you combine that with guys who suddenly and inexplicably couldn't catch a cold in a covid ward, it feels more like one team shit the bed than the other team kicked their ass.
That being said, there's no doubt that BA came out with a gameplan and executed it to perfection. There were at least 2-3 guys in the backfield running free on every play. Again, the only player more incompetent than the KC WRs was #75 LT - why and how does that guy have a job in the league?
I suspect that there have been words said in the KC organization since the super bowl that were pretty angry. Yes, there was a lot of peripheral stuff going on, and yes, we are all human. Understood. That does not, however, change the relative lack of preparation that clearly influenced the single dimensional game plan and lack of counter-moves when TB made changes.
One conclusion that I draw is that Reid is absolutely critical to KC. Without him being 100%, his staff simply could not carry the load. You saw a situation that had some parallels with Mike Price, his staff and the lost 2003 Rose Bowl.
One conclusion that I draw is that Reid is absolutely critical to KC. Without him being 100%, his staff simply could not carry the load. You saw a situation that had some parallels with Mike Price, his staff and the lost 2003 Rose Bowl.
This KC fan gives the Bucs a great deal of credit. They won every phase of the game. I disagree with you that both teams came out with a great game plan. One team did, the other not so much. KC knew about its offensive line issues for 2 weeks and also knew that one of TB's great strengths is the pass rush. Yet Reid & Bienemy basically went with the same plan they employed weeks earlier when they beat the Bucs in the regular season– when they had a much healthier offensive line. Wasn't going to work this time. More egregious was the lack of adjustments when the original shaky plan wasn't working. A second TE to help block, a few more jet sweeps with Hill/Hardeman, more rollouts with Mahomes.....gosh, any of those would be better than sticking to the original failed plan.
Glad Cougar
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