Eastern. And Cooper Kupp
- Thread starter Coug90
- Start date
Are you Jimmy Two Times from Goodfellas or something? Because you repeat everything at least twice.
Leach offered Mayfield but Mayfield did not want to come here. I vaguely remember that he wanted to go to TCU but they didn't offer so he walked on at TT. TT didn't see him as worthy of a scholarship so he transferred to Oklahoma where he blossomed. Now he is in the NFL. A pretty remarkable series of events.
You "typically" post? You ALWAYS post. Many times.
You love the topic probably more than anyone here. It's ok.
Damn Flat, your (not a) fan club is getting about as big as Ed's. I still like you though. Cuz the new Loyal loves all Cougs......
Wulff on his way out the door, for one. He called a press conference and everything to let everyone know how WSU lost it's innocence. Told us the program was on the right path if we just stayed the course.
Walden backed him on this and never passed on an opportunity to take swipes at Leach. Quite vocally as late as midway thru the 2015 season. Make no mistake, this contributed to a lot to the consistant stream of hate emails sent to Moos and led to the infamous no bowl tickets list.
No doubt these antics soured a lot of donors to Moos and I'm not surprised to see folks get back in the game with Chun as AD. Moos is the guy who made the hard decisions and ruffled feathers, now Chun gets to be the guy who takes us to the next level.
As someone who wanted Wulff to succeed and hoped he could do it (until leaving the C-Link in 2011 after a depressing loss to Oregon St.), the way he left never sat well with me. His record was 9-40 and even if you thought he deserved one more year, it's understandable why he was let go. The crying about his termination in certain circles indicated a much deeper problem than a 9-40 record: being ok with a 9-40 record.
It's easy to forget just how bad this era of football was. Like saying Doba recruited worse than Wulff. Maybe, but Doba could identify D1 talent (just not D1 academics). Wulff brought in Big Sky/lower MWC talent and was unable to coach them up.
[QUOTE="etowncoug, post: 174677, member: 10759"
No doubt these antics soured a lot of donors to Moos and I'm not surprised to see folks get back in the game with Chun as AD. Moos is the guy who made the hard decisions and ruffled feathers, now Chun gets to be the guy who takes us to the next level.
.[/QUOTE]
Please list these folks who are back in the game with Chun. With the amounts of their huge donations. Just sayin'. At least we get to see a naming sponsor on the field or the stadium. Oh wait, no we don't.
We do have people like the Hilinski's and Osur's raving about WSU and how they were treated. Oh wait, no we don't.
No doubt these antics soured a lot of donors to Moos and I'm not surprised to see folks get back in the game with Chun as AD. Moos is the guy who made the hard decisions and ruffled feathers, now Chun gets to be the guy who takes us to the next level.
.[/QUOTE]
Please list these folks who are back in the game with Chun. With the amounts of their huge donations. Just sayin'. At least we get to see a naming sponsor on the field or the stadium. Oh wait, no we don't.
We do have people like the Hilinski's and Osur's raving about WSU and how they were treated. Oh wait, no we don't.
Please list these folks who are back in the game with Chun. With the amounts of their huge donations. Just sayin'. At least we get to see a naming sponsor on the field or the stadium. Oh wait, no we don't.
We do have people like the Hilinski's and Osur's raving about WSU and how they were treated. Oh wait, no we don't.[/QUOTE]
CAF donations up 18% or 1.31 million from the prior year. That aint nothing.
CAF donations up 18% or 1.31 million from the prior year. That aint nothing.[/QUOTE]
Of course they are up now that Gesser is in charge of the CAF. Since last August.
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I guess with hindsight I am not sure how you could say Doba could identify D1 talent. Two things come to mind... dons recruited and coached off of three 10 win seasons . The players learned how to win. He should have been getting better players and players who would be eligible .
Second it was clear Wulff started to get D -1 players but they had to develop into the position . Because of his stature he couldn’t go toe to toe with ASU or Arizona . He had to hop on kids early, this the designation of big sky players .
It was the “old model” WSU has employed because they didn’t have the name coach. Keith Millard had one productive season . Eric Williams had one productive season .
If you are saying Wulff didn’t recruit ready made D-1 players I would agree. Joe Dahl was not a D- 1 recruit except in Wulffs mind. There are a lot of kids that come to mind .
Would you agree or disagree now that we have history behind us that Wulffs third class he was building to was head and shoulders above Leach’s for whatever reason ?
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How is it you get Wulff's named spelled correctly, but you butcher Doba--twice--badly?
I was hoping that we were ready to let this thread die but it obviously won't. Just to be clear.........ED is probably the only person on this board that didn't think that Wulff should have been fired when it happened......and even he realizes it was the best thing for us.
Just like you, I knew that Wulff was doomed when I walked out of C-Link in October 2011. Please know that when you see people on here call me a "Wulff Lover" or "APaulogist", it's because I refuse to buy into the stupidity that he was the worst coach in college football history, not because I didn't think the dude needed to get canned. Because I look around and realize how truly bad some coaches have been.....and realize that Wulff was not as bad as they were.....some people think that means that I love Wulff and wanted him to stay. I didn't. I had gotten to know his brother and hoped he could get it turned around, but I was banned from Brand X in 2011 because I wasn't part of the "loss of innocence" support group there.
For the record, that's how extreme the hatred for Wulff is here. Over on Brand X......I was considered a Wulff hater.......over here.....I'm considered an Apaulogist. Being in the middle sucks.
All one needs to do is look at the offers Doba's recruits received compared to the other offers Wulff's guys had. It's not even close. It's not like Doba had a ton of pull compared to the other coaches in the conference.
Recruiting went sideways for Doba when his wife got cancer and the assistants dropped the ball. Even so, I'll take Doba's results over Wulff's.
I call BS on the "Wulff developed talent" nonsense. Maybe that was the plan, but it never happened. Even Leach wasn't able to start winning until Wulff's guys were gone (12-25 with a Wulff's veterans, only Paulo and Dom Williams were left by 2015). Some players developed, sure, but no where near enough to win on more than the rare occasion.
Joe Dahl. Really? The guy Wulff's couldn't convince to come to Pullman over a lone Big Sky offer to Montana? That alone should be cause for termination.
I've been pretty open with the fact I think the 2014 class has been a disaster, but this comment you made makes me understand why Tron freaks out on you. While the 2014 class is BY FAR Leach's most disappointing, it would quite clearly be Wulff's second best class. Both classes are an anomaly for their respective coaches. 2014 was unlucky for Leach. 2010 was lucky for Wulff.
Gerard Wicks quote regarding the first half defense against Eastern in 2016: “It came to halftime and we figured out half the defense had on white wristbands and the other had on black wristbands, so everybody wasn’t on the same page.”
This, without question, is the Cougliest quote I have ever read.
This, without question, is the Cougliest quote I have ever read.
"This thread should go away, but I simply HAVE to add my 3 paragraphs of opinion."
I hadn't posted in 24 hours expecting it to die......but thanks for doing your part to keep it going.
So, Wulff's best class was better than Leach's worst? Who cares?
That's the only class of Wulff's that would even rank in the same neighborhood as any of Leach's. The rest of Wulff's classes were complete disasters. '08 was a straight up punt of a recruiting class. Not entirely Wulff's fault, but what a calamity of a recruiting class that was. '09 was not even a full class (for reasons I don't understand), mostly won over a coachless UW. The '10 class was the only one that even resembled a Pac 12 recruiting class. '11 was back to garbage and '12 was probably going to be even worse.
If you're saying Leach's worst class is '14, at least it produced Herc, Dillard & Luvu, 3 (probable) NFL players. And Wulff's 2010 class is made to look quite a bit better because Leach's staff developed Deone into an All American and first rounder.
Likewise.
And if you don't want to read this thread anymore, I've got some advice for you.
Wow....who said I didn't think Wulff shouldn't have been fired? I said long before Wulff was hired...or any coach the coach after Doba the next coach was hired to be fired. I didn't think SHOULD have been hired. I thought the one person who could have turned the program around in four years was Price. He had the cache. When Leach was hired I had zero problem with Wulff being fired. But to fire Wulff and hire a Jonathan Smith type hire made no sense to me, might as well have seen if Wulff's recruitment of Tuel and Halliday would pay off in 2012. But they hired a name coach because of the Pac 12 money.
But if I was CEO of Apple tomorrow, and I watched the company go down (like Doba) then when it is close to hot rock bottom and you were hired four years later to pick up the pieces, who SHOULD be held more accountable? Me who was on top of the world or you who were hired near rock bottom.
It is like the housing crisis...why did it take so long to turn it around? Cause it took as many years to write crappy loans as it did to purge them from 08-13.
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Fab...Deone was on his way. He was well coached at his position. I would put Balls development of Trufant, Coleman, David, and the rest of the guys and his work at Alabama and Pitt up against Breske any day of the week. You could argue Ball went one step above his ability at DC and I will listen to that discussion, but to say Buchanon was developed by Breske and staff and Ball wouldn't get him there defies the history.
08 was a bad class. Hoffman Ellis, Simmons, Williams (OL Drafted) Wolfgram, Laurenzi Spitz and Karsteter. Last two I believe were the Doba recruits that were left behind. Three Pac 10 players from that class (Bland, Daniels, and McKay ..and he might have been All Pac 10) were lost due to injury. Norrell and Toomer played and I believe transferred.
But you want to know why we struggled. Look to the 05 class that had Tarkenton (JC) Stripling, Trent, Evans, Tardy, Ahmu, Hicks, Alfred and Gibson. That is on the heels of three 10 win seasons, followed up by Ivory, Kooyman, Dillion, Hannam, Mattingly in Rosenberh in 2006. 07 had Chima, Giles, Lesuma, Guerra, Roxas and Anderson. Giles was a JC player who wasn't seen past 08, and Anderson quit. That again is from a Pac 10 coach who could spot Pac 10 talent and had three ten win seasons to recruit from.
So the guy hired in 2008 should shoulder the blame for not recruiting Kupp, right?
You would take the following following a Sun Bowl, rose Bowl and a Holiday Bowl to recruit from...Tarkenton, Stripling, Trent, Evans, Tardy, Ahmu, Hicks, Alfred, Gibson, Ivory, Kooyman, Dillion, Hannam, Mattingly,. Chima, Giles, Lesuma, Guerra, Roxas, Anderson...over Zach Williams (NFL) Daniel Simmons, Ellis, Wolfgram, Laurenzi, Lintz, Karsteter, Spitz (last two Doba's I believe) Rankin, Kaufusi, Long, Carpeter, Locker, Washington, Simone, Tuel, Bosch, Barton, Pole, Williams, Jacobson, Gonzales, Galvin, Wilson, Buchanon, Halliday, Horton Jake Rodgers, Dunn, Mizel, (Asante Cleveland was taken at last minute by Miami..NFL), Booker (NFL) , Paulo, Mason Dom Williams, Myers, Eaddy, Monroe, Sua, Ecklund and a player who was offered by only one D1 school,Joe Dahl. That is not to mention the following- Tuliaupupu went to UCLA two days before signing date in 2011, Nembot to Cu 8 days before signing day. (offering what people initially saw as Big Sky talent) That isn't to mention three players- two highly talented Cory McKay and Leandre Daniels had career ending neck injuries (and life changing) and Bland was a good Pac 10 linebacker and his knee wouldn't hold up.
Personally I would rather have Davis, Cherry and Buckley who each went on to play for ASU, Cal and Idaho vs Preston Brooks and Clevil Ansley. Or Brandon Golden who went on to Idaho State after he wasn't a Leach player vs Skyler Jesson. Or Jordan Robinson from 09 who went on to Hawaii vs Jason Price or a host of all sorts of other names.
I would rather have Clements who played at UAB as a two year starter vs Cole Morgan or JT Levi.
Just looking at the players Doba recruited that went on and had some sort of NFL camp activity....Ivory, Bumpus, Harrison, Brackenridge, Collins and Gibson. Not one QB, not one Dlineman, not one Olineman.
Wulff- Butler, Cleveland (signed with Miami) Zach Williams, Dom Williamsn, Wilson, Tuel, Halliday, Long, Fullington, Dahl, Rodgers, Jordan Simone. Demterius Cherry,
Oh, so Wulff gets a pass for the 2008 class and Leach gets credit for the 2012 class. Makes total sense. Just like it makes total sense that guys who barely ever played or never played were for sure Pac-10 material....
And I'd put Loscalzo over whomever Wulff had running the training tables. Buccanon became a physical freak after Loscalzo showed up.
I'm pretty sure Deone credits Leach's staff with getting him to the NFL.
And it's kind of funny the double standard you apply to classes. You credit Wulff for guys like Daniels and McKay, yet bag on Leach for recruiting Bartolone.
This has to be the biggest reach in the thread. Wulff now gets credit for guys who didn't even sign with WSU.
Yes, Wulff definitely fielded the best team of guys who never wore a uniform.
And your QB comment is ridiculous. I'd take Brink in a second over any QB Wulff recruited. But, I guess Tuel's illustrious NFL career would place him place him above Brink or Gesser for you?
Pointing out all the recruiting battles he lost is a bold way to prove what a great recruiter he was.
Forgot Bishop Sankey. I mean, he should fall into this list of recruiting victories for Wulff too.
Why do you misconstrue the two. Wulff gets a 2008 pass because there were three kids committed to the class, that he had no D1 experience thus was going up against Tedford, Erickson, Kelly, Rick N just to name a few and he had a short time to find players. If Wulff missed out on a player like Kupp in 2008 that went to Eastern and took Mike Vandolken-something instead I would say HE missed on him.
If Leach had a bad 2012 class I would have given him a pass, but because he has cache he did a great job. Just as I give him a "pass" for the 2014 class as stuff happens.
Bland played a whole season, we saw what he could do. Daniels played in I think 4 games in 2009 and if you go back you could see what he could do. And McKay showed it in spring ball. I didn't need to see Mark Hedeen to play four years to know he was special before his neck injury got the best of him. Same with Cory. Someone who watched him almost daily in practice and spring practice and I trust their judgement said he is the real deal. And I did take in a couple of practices, plus highlight video and one could tell he was Pac 10 worthy.
Not sure you remember catching the Cougs play Kansas St in Manhattan a while back but I do and remember you as a good guy. You're ok in my book regardless of whatever disagreements we have.
You are the undisputed master of misconstruing information and basic logic. No one holds a candle to your expertise and talent in that arena. Wulff had three years to recruit Kupp, and didn't.
Fab....Good grief. Not sure how much more clear I can make this for you. I never once said he was a "great recruiter". A great recruiter is able to close on people and has something to sell. Nick Saban's job as a recruiter is much easier than every job out there. USC's should be as well.
Bill Doba was not a great recruiter, nor was he a good elevator of talent. Paul Wulff didn't have the same cards on the table as Bill Doba did. Bill Doba had these cards on the table. 3 ten won seasons , 3 bowl games in which they were 2-1. Yet he could recruit or evaluate off of that. No doubt a change in strategy doomed WSU. Phflugrad made the same mistake at ASU and got Snyder canned.
Was Wulff a great recruiter? No. Was he and his staff very good evaluators of talent. Yes. That is why it is relevant the players he recruited and they verbaled. He more than any other coach in the conference would have benefited form an early signing period. Who he evaluated, recruited and signed elsewhere shows he could spot D1 talent (like Dahl,Cleveland and a host of other kids no one else wanted until the last minute as kids dropped out of their class)
A client who coached as OC in the Pac 10 and other conferences once told me something interesting. He told me the best EVALUATORS of talent are in D2. Do you understand my distinction between evaluation and recruiting?
Back in the day I thought Price was a clown. Something happened that gave me reason for pause. He recruited this "white chip" player from Edmonds. No one else came close to offering this kid. The kid didn't have the grades so he went to Walla Walla. Next thing you know Matt Storm was an All American for Georgia.
Mike Price could spot talent.
You don't know if he was recruited and evaluated or not. Not only that, the class of 2010 had how five receivers, the 2011 class had 3, so WR if I recall correctly was not the highest priority. If I believe correctly he had one kid who was listed as a WR/DB in that class. Not only that, the 2012 class wasn't full, so he may have picked up Kupp. The kid seems right up his alley.
Mike Leach had 40 days to recruit an entire class and he chose a guy named Bartolone over Kupp. If that was Wulff's class and he picked another WR over Kupp, say Balir Bomber, I would say Wulff missed on him.
Nope in hindsight I wouldn't replace Brink with Tuel. Why are you including Gesser? Heck might as well a mark fields in the discussion at this point.
Brink, totally spaced on him. Brink was much better than I ever thought at the time. Just wish he had a little more arm.
But the point is the same. Doba did not recruit a QB for the years past 2007. Let me restate that. He did not recruit a QB the level of Brink, Tuel or Halliday for the health of teh program. Are you disputing that?
I know that Wulff needed talent and had a future NFL player in Yakima, and never offered him. You know that too. I know that Wulff had three years to work on recruiting Kupp and never offered him. You know that too. I know Wulff blew it. You know that too. Your continued defense of that coach is comical. You know that too.
Spotting 4 star talent isn't. If spotting talent wasn't hard Marcus Trufant would have been offered by 10 other high level D1 teams. If spotting D1 talent wasn't Cleveland would have been offered by more than WSU and Miami at the end.
If spotting talent wasn't all that hard where were people on Joe Dahl?
