Flynn just tweeted that he's transferring

[Observer11]

The money was being invested into the football program. Ernie, or whoever was going to be hired, was slated to be a caretaker for the program until the expected revenue from the Pac-12 network, etc. arrived.

Investing in the football program was the right move. Now, why Ernie has a roll over contract, and why his contract was rolled over as many times as it has been are obviously subject to scrutiny.

It's very simple. Bill Moos' ego is so large he was bound and determined to hamstring any successor to look as sh*tty as possible.

This isn't even debatable. There was absolutely NO reason to give Ernie Kent the kind of rollover/extension he was granted by Moos. Shameful.

 

[wazzubruce]

Wow. Our hoops program is in complete shambles. A dumpster fire. It appears that CEK has lost this team. I don't blame Flynn for leaving. I would not want to play on a team for 4 years without any hope of winning or at least going to the NCAA or NIT. Sad. Very Sad.

 

[Loyal Coug]

It's very simple. Bill Moos' ego is so large he was bound and determined to hamstring any successor to look as sh*tty as possible.

This isn't even debatable. There was absolutely NO reason to give Ernie Kent the kind of rollover/extension he was granted by Moos. Shameful.

This is a ridiculous statement, and that is not even debatable. The ego part is accurate, and yes the rollovers were shameful. But to say that Moos, a Coug through and through, would deliberately sabotage his successor and thus his alma mater is just a stupid statement. The rollovers make Moos look shi++y. Not his successor.

 

[Glad Cougar]

It's very simple. Bill Moos' ego is so large he was bound and determined to hamstring any successor to look as sh*tty as possible.

This isn't even debatable. There was absolutely NO reason to give Ernie Kent the kind of rollover/extension he was granted by Moos. Shameful.

Especially after year 2 when EK's team went 1-17 in conference play. All of it was shameful, IMO, but that automatic rollover after a historically bad season was inexcusable.

Glad Cougar

 

[Observer11]

This is a ridiculous statement, and that is not even debatable. The ego part is accurate, and yes the rollovers were shameful. But to say that Moos, a Coug through and through, would deliberately sabotage his successor and thus his alma mater is just a stupid statement. The rollovers make Moos look shi++y. Not his successor.

Someday the koolaid will evaporate completely.

 

[Cougsocal]

The money was being invested into the football program. Ernie, or whoever was going to be hired, was slated to be a caretaker for the program until the expected revenue from the Pac-12 network, etc. arrived.

Investing in the football program was the right move. Now, why Ernie has a roll over contract, and why his contract was rolled over as many times as it has been are obviously subject to scrutiny.

Let's get one thing straight. No one "invested" in Football. Bill Moos spent on football facilities with money we didn't have, misjudging TV revenue badly, as well as the revenues that winning football on the Palouse can generate. The benefits from the upgrades that Bill hoped we'd garner never materialized. One top 50 recruiting class and 3 top 60 and considerably less than expected revenues, for the 100 million spent. That is rampant "speculating" on football. Having the built-in advantage of being in the only major football conference out west, you'd need a disaster like Paul Wulff to recruit worse. The FOB has been a recruiting/revenue/assistant coach retention FLOP. And if the reports are true about Leach and his agent shopping himself around to several programs last year, the FOB has been a head coach retention flop too. Yes, we did get Mike Leach, and that was a great, dare I say fantastic, call on Bill's part, but Mike had no known suitors that we competing against. It was us, or at least another year away from football for Mike. Maryland basically had a laugh at his expense. All indications are that Mike was as desperate as we were. We weren't battling with Kansas, Maryland, NC State and Illinois for him, only Maryland offered him an interview, an interview that went badly. Bill only needed to not offend Mike with our offer. If Bill felt the need to promise Mike 10s of millions in facility upgrades too, the moniker "bag of hammers" Bill fits.

Ernie wasn't a care taker. You don't pay a guy 1.4 million to care take, you pay him about what Bone was paid, $650K, not more than double. You don't roll over a care taker's contract twice, I believe. Bill thought he had hired a Mike Leach for basketball, he got that very wrong. That, and because Bill utterly screwed the pooch in handling our financial affairs, we are stuck with a spent coach, running a collapsing basketball program for at least two years unless a miracle happens.

 

[SaveFerris]

I believe. Bill thought he had hired a Mike Leach for basketball, he got that very wrong.

That what it looked like when he was hired and always worried me. The rollovers were either that or just being lazy. I just didn't see it working out even to the level of last year and obviously I wasn't alone.

 

[ElComanche]

The above is the most pessimistic of all posts on the state of the Athletic Department.One will dare say that it is part of the old crowd who think that PW should be the coach for life

 

[kayak15]

This is a ridiculous statement, and that is not even debatable. The ego part is accurate, and yes the rollovers were shameful. But to say that Moos, a Coug through and through, would deliberately sabotage his successor and thus his alma mater is just a stupid statement. The rollovers make Moos look shi++y. Not his successor.

No idea as to Moos's ego but agree with the rest of your post. Nobody can defend the absurd rollovers. Moos screwed up big time in those decisions. But it is a bit extreme to attribute it to a Moriarty level cleverly designed malevolence. If it had not been for the U. of Nebraska, Moos would probably still be here and would have hamstrung himself. Have to wonder what Chun thought when he saw the salary and rollovers on one page and the results on another page.

Anyway, we are stuck with our basketball programs and now it is time to do something about them. At least June could recruit.

 

[dgibbons]

Let's get one thing straight. No one "invested" in Football. Bill Moos spent on football facilities with money we didn't have, misjudging TV revenue badly, as well as the revenues that winning football on the Palouse can generate. The benefits from the upgrades that Bill hoped we'd garner never materialized. One top 50 recruiting class and 3 top 60 and considerably less than expected revenues, for the 100 million spent. That is rampant "speculating" on football. Having the built-in advantage of being in the only major football conference out west, you'd need a disaster like Paul Wulff to recruit worse. The FOB has been a recruiting/revenue/assistant coach retention FLOP. And if the reports are true about Leach and his agent shopping himself around to several programs last year, the FOB has been a head coach retention flop too. Yes, we did get Mike Leach, and that was a great, dare I say fantastic, call on Bill's part, but Mike had no known suitors that we competing against. It was us, or at least another year away from football for Mike. Maryland basically had a laugh at his expense. All indications are that Mike was as desperate as we were. We weren't battling with Kansas, Maryland, NC State and Illinois for him, only Maryland offered him an interview, an interview that went badly. Bill only needed to not offend Mike with our offer. If Bill felt the need to promise Mike 10s of millions in facility upgrades too, the moniker "bag of hammers" Bill fits.

Ernie wasn't a care taker. You don't pay a guy 1.4 million to care take, you pay him about what Bone was paid, $650K, not more than double. You don't roll over a care taker's contract twice, I believe. Bill thought he had hired a Mike Leach for basketball, he got that very wrong. That, and because Bill utterly screwed the pooch in handling our financial affairs, we are stuck with a spent coach, running a collapsing basketball program for at least two years unless a miracle happens.

As I said, the decisions relating to Kent’s contract are subject to scrutiny.

On football, what other viable option was there? Drop out of the Pac-12 and say goodbye to the TV revenue? New rowing tank? A nifty new clubhouse? A wonderful soccer facility that seats 1000? Football generates revenue. Nothing else at WSU does.

We just went to three straight bowl games for the second time in school history in case you forgot. The program went from irrelevant to competing for the pac-12 title, again in case you forgot.

 

[Glad Cougar]

A friend mentioned a possibility I had never thought of....can Ernie be moved to another position in the athletic department while drawing at least a portion of his salary? Did WSU ever replace Marlow? Ernie has the personality to be a good ambassador for Cougar athletics if he wanted to do so. His ego probably wouldn't make this a decent possibility, but it's one idea on reducing further damage on the basketball program while getting some value out EK while he still has a contract.

Glad Cougar

 

[Observer11]

I'll give Flynn credit for a nice 'thank-you' tweet to the fans and coaches of WSU. That's more than Bill Moos ever acknowledged when he left.

 

[avabob1]

Not sure what you he college hoops game is going to be like, but there are going to be big changes in the next few years. Mass transfers, one and dones, corrupt recruiting, all contributing to sagging attendance, and overall decline in interest. WSU program is just a little more extreme than what is happening to the college game in general.

 

[FnuLnu]

Not sure what you he college hoops game is going to be like, but there are going to be big changes in the next few years. Mass transfers, one and dones, corrupt recruiting, all contributing to sagging attendance, and overall decline in interest. WSU program is just a little more extreme than what is happening to the college game in general.

An underrated post.
What might be in store for Men's CBB might be what happened to minor league baseball post WW2 when the introduction of cheap television sets & and at the same time the minor league teams moving from independence to coming under direct control of MLB teams which led to increased player movement (raiding of rosters).
That led to fan apathy and decline in revenue for the clubs to keep their physical facilities.
You won't see the exact same results, but it is an example of a sport business under multiple pressures going into decline.

An expansion of the NCAA tourney field might lead to less pressure to give out bloated compensation packages to staffs.

 

[avabob1]

Most "college hoops fans" care little about being entertained by skilled basketball players anymore. Its all about making the dance. In that respect, expanding the field might at least be a band aid.

Ask most people about this and they will start talking about poor fundamentals, and bad defense in today's game. I often wonder what they thought about the defense when I was young with guys like Mount, Murphy and Maravich averaging 40 per game. UCLA averaged 90 per game with no shot clock and no 3 point line. Their idea of defense was let somebody put up a shot then crash the boards and start a fast break. Cougs were always good to score 75 on the bruins, which often got us within 15.

We were 0-32 against the Bruins for about 16 years. Later similar against AZ during the 90's. Still drew decent crowds during all those years most of which featured losing records. Never heard anyone bemoan our poor defense or bad coaching. Most just realized those schools had access to way more talent than we did, although almost all of our teams had at least one star who was worth the price of admission to watch

 

[ElComanche]

I interpret their idea of" poor defense' to ,mean the slo ball days of Dick Bennett. They want the point guard to stand outside with the ball on his hip and let about 2-4 minutes elapse before attempting a shot while they hoop and holler at a good team s frustration.The shot clock and speeded up game makes that a hard thing to do. One can play pattern ball a la Princeton,but one better have a couple of shooters on your team if you want to win games.The current cougs did not have a super star whom fans wanted to see. What the answer is i really do not know. The wide use of electronics and other diversions seems to keep students from attending games.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I interpret their idea of" poor defense' to ,mean the slo ball days of Dick Bennett. They want the point guard to stand outside with the ball on his hip and let about 2-4 minutes elapse before attempting a shot while they hoop and holler at a good team s frustration.The shot clock and speeded up game makes that a hard thing to do. One can play pattern ball a la Princeton,but one better have a couple of shooters on your team if you want to win games.The current cougs did not have a super star whom fans wanted to see. What the answer is i really do not know. The wide use of electronics and other diversions seems to keep students from attending games.

The shot clock went to 35 seconds in college hoops in 1993.

I had no problem with Bennett's teams patiently looking for the best possible shot. I didn't like the total lack of trying to get offensive rebounds.

 

[Loyal Coug]

A friend mentioned a possibility I had never thought of....can Ernie be moved to another position in the athletic department while drawing at least a portion of his salary? Did WSU ever replace Marlow? Ernie has the personality to be a good ambassador for Cougar athletics if he wanted to do so. His ego probably wouldn't make this a decent possibility, but it's one idea on reducing further damage on the basketball program while getting some value out EK while he still has a contract.

Glad Cougar

I think EK is nothing but a slick hustler and don't think that would play well at all with potential donors. Plus he makes way too much money to make that a possibility. When we moved Tim Mooney form Baseball coach to fundraiser, the salary money was a good fit.

 

[FnuLnu]

I think EK is nothing but a slick hustler and don't think that would play well at all with potential donors. Plus he makes way too much money to make that a possibility. When we moved Tim Mooney form Baseball coach to fundraiser, the salary money was a good fit.

Make him women's coach and then perhaps his "Ole' problem resurfaces.....then QED contract terminated with cause or at least willingness to buy it out (UA).

 

[jourdand]

As far as attendance goes I think it is twofold first television, I know I’m guilty of not attending as many games because it is so much more convenient to watch at home where I can just rewind and watch plays over and over. ( much to my wife’s distress) as far as the students go it’s relatively simple you have to WIN.
To the other topic of college basketball as a whole. IMO they need to stop trying to emulate the pro game. They used to be almost different sports, some fans liked the ultra talented and ultra athletic game of the nba and others liked the more pure basketball played as a team sport that was college basketball. I feel we have driven away those purest fans in an attempt to compete for nba fans. Maybe I’m just getting old but I would rather watch a well played basketball game between to competive teams, especially if I have a vested interest and loyaly follow one of those teams.
Ps make a scholarship at least a two year commitment from both sides.

 

[CougPatrol]

Now, why Ernie has a roll over contract, and why his contract was rolled over as many times as it has been are obviously subject to scrutiny.

Perhaps Schulz had some basis to question Moos on his program management?

 

[ElComanche]

Some people yearn for a return to 1993 and think that is basketball. It is the mentality i was talking about, i hated Dick Bennett s style of coaching and in retrospect the cougs may have been better in hiring another coach. His son left the cougs in a lurch when he abruptly left and i have no fond memorizes of the Bennetts That is heresy to his fans

 

[Glad Cougar]

Some people yearn for a return to 1993 and think that is basketball. It is the mentality i was talking about, i hated Dick Bennett s style of coaching and in retrospect the cougs may have been better in hiring another coach. His son left the cougs in a lurch when he abruptly left and i have no fond memorizes of the Bennetts That is heresy to his fans

To each his own. Personally, I enjoyed the back-to-back NCAA tournament appearances and Sweet Sixteen.

I enjoyed Jourdand's comment above about the college game that was different from NBA style. I'm an old guy and don't apologize for it. My solution this year was watching more D-II and D-III basketball that relies more on the team game rather than super talented, ultra-athletic individual players.

Glad Cougar

 

[SaveFerris]

To each his own. Personally, I enjoyed the back-to-back NCAA tournament appearances and Sweet Sixteen.

I enjoyed Jourdand's comment above about the college game that was different from NBA style. I'm an old guy and don't apologize for it. My solution this year was watching more D-II and D-III basketball that relies more on the team game rather than super talented, ultra-athletic individual players.

Glad Cougar

26 win seasons really sucked! My first thought when Dick was hired was whether people would support his "grind it out" approach. Second thought was we would at least be competitive now. Ended up people actually enjoy being competitive and winning most games. Go figure.

 

[avabob11]

A couple of things about the Bennett era. First, it was so bad with Graham that Dicks style looked pretty good. Contrary to common belief Dick wasnt that plodding in the half court. The only thing he preached to his kids was to make at least two passes before they took a jumper. Yes, there were some ugly losses, 81-29, 50-30 come to mind, but again compared to Grahams final 1-17 conference record things looked pretty good.

The biggest problem with Bennett ball was that Tonys success convinced people the only way to win in Pullman was with a plodding defensive oriented style. It has always been my contention that an up tempo offense doesnt preclude good defense. The same lack of athleticism that keeps you from playing up tempo puts pressure on being able to defend. If you cant beat a guy to the hoop on offense, you probably cant stop him from beating you on defense.

 

[SaveFerris]

A couple of things about the Bennett era. First, it was so bad with Graham that Dicks style looked pretty good. Contrary to common belief Dick wasnt that plodding in the half court. The only thing he preached to his kids was to make at least two passes before they took a jumper. Yes, there were some ugly losses, 81-29, 50-30 come to mind, but again compared to Grahams final 1-17 conference record things looked pretty good.

The biggest problem with Bennett ball was that Tonys success convinced people the only way to win in Pullman was with a plodding defensive oriented style. It has always been my contention that an up tempo offense doesnt preclude good defense. The same lack of athleticism that keeps you from playing up tempo puts pressure on being able to defend. If you cant beat a guy to the hoop on offense, you probably cant stop him from beating you on defense.

Believe it or not the 81-29 loss wasn't that bad and the next game an Akognon final 3 beats Gonzaga.

Minimizing mistakes and searching for a better shot wasn't ugly to these eyes. I do agree with your final take. We can win more uptempo and you need talent in any system. I don't think we need to be plodding. I do believe you can be free flowing and still make good decisions
and minimize mistakes.

 

[avabob1]

Are you sure about beating GU. I didn't remember us beating GU till Tony's first year. I know we lost to them in Dicks last season. It would have been Dicks second season and Akognon frosh season. You sure could be right because I just don't remember. Kelati would have been a senior along with Varem. We won a respectable 6 conference games with the Cowgill group all being freshmen

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Believe it or not the 81-29 loss wasn't that bad and the next game Ann Akognon final 3 beats Gonzaga.

Minimizing mistakes and searching for a better shot wasn't ugly to these eyes. I do agree with your final take. We can win more uptempo and you need talent in any system. I don't think we need to be plodding. I do believe you can be free flowing and still make good decisions
and minimize mistakes.

I'm going to respectfully disagree about how bad that 81-29 loss was. I was there in person and it was the worst experience that I've ever had at a basketball game. We were down 29-2 at one point in the game. The only thing positive that I took away from that game was knowing that Kyle Weaver would be wearing an NBA uniform at some point because it was obvious that he was a legit ball player who just needed some polish. That game was so bad that it falls in the same ballpark as the 2008 football beatdowns.

 

[SaveFerris]

I'm going to respectfully disagree about how bad that 81-29 loss was. I was there in person and it was the worst experience that I've ever had at a basketball game. We were down 29-2 at one point in the game. The only thing positive that I took away from that game was knowing that Kyle Weaver would be wearing an NBA uniform at some point because it was obvious that he was a legit ball player who just needed some polish. That game was so bad that it falls in the same ballpark as the 2008 football beatdowns.

I wasn’t clear. We lost by 1 or 2 with Akognon missing a 3.

I'm going to respectfully disagree about how bad that 81-29 loss was. I was there in person and it was the worst experience that I've ever had at a basketball game. We were down 29-2 at one point in the game. The only thing positive that I took away from that game was knowing that Kyle Weaver would be wearing an NBA uniform at some point because it was obvious that he was a legit ball player who just needed some polish. That game was so bad that it falls in the same ballpark as the 2008 football beatdowns.

I watched on TV and had a different take on it. I saw them trying to execute but just weren’t there from a developmental standpoint. When the sky is falling posts came I saw it much differently. That’s also just me though.

 

[dgibbons]

Some people yearn for a return to 1993 and think that is basketball. It is the mentality i was talking about, i hated Dick Bennett s style of coaching and in retrospect the cougs may have been better in hiring another coach. His son left the cougs in a lurch when he abruptly left and i have no fond memorizes of the Bennetts That is heresy to his fans

Winning sucks.

 

[avabob1]

Didn't see the 81-29 game on TV, not sure why, but I listened to it. It was an aberation in the Bennett rebuild. However it sounded ugly beyond words. I remember Bud being almost at a loss for words at a couple of points. We couldn't get the ball out of the back court most of the time in the first half.

I think the thing people don't always understand is the really good, well coached teams are capable of turning up the defensive pressure, but they don't live and die with lock down defense. Tony and Dick did live and die with lock down defense. Part of Tony's success was he and Dick bringing a great defensive scheme to a conference not known for good defense.

 

[ElComanche]

That was a horrible ugly loss and how anyone can say it was not bad is beyond me. A couple of winning seasons does not make a sustainable program. If Bennett had not bailed he was in for some tough years.

 

[jourdand]

Yea he failed miserably after leaving.

 

[ElComanche]

He may have failed miserably with the talent he had coming back in Pullman if he has stayed. Do i blame him for leaving?,not really, but i did not like it. When his number1 rated team went down in the Big Dance,i liked that.

 

[SaveFerris]

That was a horrible ugly loss and how anyone can say it was not bad is beyond me. A couple of winning seasons does not make a sustainable program. If Bennett had not bailed he was in for some tough years.

Did you watch it? I doubt it.

 

[ElComanche]

I am an old dude and i have followed coug basketball for decades. I was against the hiring of Bennett having watched his son play for his team and his style of basketball. it was ugly ball then and it seemed that only his son had license to shoot on that team. I could not believe they were hiring him at that point.So yes i was familiar with his teams and style of basketball I assume that you probably never saw his son play for dad ?

 

[Observer11]

I am an old dude and i have followed coug basketball for decades. I was against the hiring of Bennett having watched his son play for his team and his style of basketball. it was ugly ball then and it seemed that only his son had license to shoot on that team. I could not believe they were hiring him at that point.So yes i was familiar with his teams and style of basketball I assume that you probably never saw his son play for dad ?

Except when Tony played for Dick, they didn’t play packline and tried to get up and down the court off turnovers. They played up the line defense and cut off all ball reversal. Dick didn’t change until a couple years after Tony graduated.

 

[SaveFerris]

I am an old dude and i have followed coug basketball for decades. I was against the hiring of Bennett having watched his son play for his team and his style of basketball. it was ugly ball then and it seemed that only his son had license to shoot on that team. I could not believe they were hiring him at that point.So yes i was familiar with his teams and style of basketball I assume that you probably never saw his son play for dad ?

I have no idea what this means regarding whether you saw the Oklahoma State game?

I remember Lute Olson's reaction to the news we hired Dick. After a stunned look and long pause he asked "WSU hired Dick Bennet? Well the Washington trip just got a lot harder."

Bottom line, they took a dumpster fire dead end program and took us to the Sweet 16 in year 5. We aren't looking quite as good headed into year 5 under Ernie.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I wasn’t clear. We lost by 1 or 2 with Akognon missing a 3.


I watched on TV and had a different take on it. I saw them trying to execute but just weren’t there from a developmental standpoint. When the sky is falling posts came I saw it much differently. That’s also just me though.

I didn't say anything about the Gonzaga game......I was only commenting on the debacle at Oklahoma State. Getting food at halftime was an incredibly awkward experience. I'd never had opposing fans talk to me like they were worried about offending me because my team was so bad that they didn't have the right to comment on it. The game was an aberration and Bennett later said that losing a game like that was probably beneficial to the team because it started a fire in their bellies that they built on for the next few seasons.

 

[ElComanche]

Yes i watched almost all of their games. His team at Wisconsin Green Bay played basketball the same way and that is where Tony learned the defense. Even as a grad student,i had seasons tickets to the games Sure some coaches loved DB but i hated his teams and his style of ball.To each his own and i hated his hire. Tony loosened thing up a lot with his teams but i still loved it when a tiny little bitty college ran the ball and his team could not keep pace. I loved it for many reasons. Very satisfying loss indeed